Fishing while armed on the Colorado


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Triphammer
May 14, 2011, 12:56 PM
I'll be fishing a lower Colorado River lake in a couple weeks and am wondering;
I'm an Arizona resident, have a CCW, I always carry concealed while out. I will be in possesion of a firearm while fishing & if I venture to the Califoria side of the river, will I be in violation of any Ca. statutes? I don't plan on landing on the Ca. side but if I do, then what?

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Supertac45
May 14, 2011, 03:05 PM
Are you carrying open or concealed?

deadin
May 14, 2011, 03:45 PM
Well, he said concealed and I doubt that CA recognizes AZ permits, so, yes, violation of CA statutes.

Triphammer
May 14, 2011, 05:44 PM
Open carry, then, would not be in violation? Would the firearm need to be unloaded?

deadin
May 14, 2011, 08:18 PM
Someone from CA will have to answer the open carry question as I don't know the laws about OC there.

Jeff F
May 15, 2011, 09:22 AM
As a former California resident, My best guess would be, Don't go to the CA side with a loaded sidearm. I moved out of California when their firearm laws became such as you need a law degree to figure them out and half the time you still could not figure it out.

danez71
May 15, 2011, 09:38 AM
Former CA resident that tries to keep up -

UNLOADED Open carry is legal CA.

EDIT:

It may not be that simple though. What lake are you fishing?

For example, Lake Havasu has BLM and AZ State Park campsites all along the AZ side of the lake that most all have some type of a restroom that you may want to us.

RETG
May 15, 2011, 10:04 AM
BLM follows the handgun/shooting laws of the state the land is located in (however they do have their own allowed places to shoot or not to shoot). If you are legal in AZ, and are on BLM land in AZ, you are legal on the BLM land. You are also allowed to carry into a BLM restroom in that state. (Just don't let if fall into the vault toilet:evil:)

Triphammer
May 15, 2011, 11:44 AM
I'll be fishing Martinez, just north of Yuma. It may be inevitable I happen into California on occasion.

ants
May 15, 2011, 12:18 PM
Or at least inconvenient.

State line is not necessarily the center of river or reservoir. In general, its the centerline of the river channel back when they set state boundaries, long before the Imperial Dam was built, creating Imperial Reservoir.

Technically, it would be wise to carry navigation charts and use your map reckoning skills (a GPS would help greatly). Prior to entering California waters, you must unload the gun. Unloaded, the gun may be carried open to view in a holster, or stowed in a case or a bag, until you return to Arizona.

Since Arizona also allows open carry, perhaps open carry on both sides of the boundary is smarter, as long as you unload it before crossing to California, then you may reload it again after crossing back to Arizona.

For some anglers, it ain't worth it. Either fish armed only on the Arizona side, or don't carry a handgun if you want to cross to California. Or load/unload as you cross state lines. The lawful choices are clear. The choice you make is your own business.

hermannr
May 15, 2011, 12:38 PM
If you are on the water don't worry about it. It is just like your fishing license, they do not have some arbitrary line in the water. If you put in on the Arizona side and fishing with an AZ fishing license, you really do not want to land and go ashore on the CA anyway.

This probably sounds funny, but it is totally valid. Follow your fishing license. If your Arizona fishing license says don't fish here...just don't go there. If it legal to fish using AZ law, it is legal to follow the rest of AZ law too.

It's just like the Columbia at Roosevelt Lake. One side is Indian Reservation (Must have a tribal license) the other side is WA state. Which side you are on, and which license you need depends on where you launch, or if fishing from shore, which shore you are standing on.

Same with Oregon/Washington border that is Columbia River. Read your fishing regs, follow them and you will be fine.

AlaskaMan
May 16, 2011, 12:00 AM
Nevada, Arizona and California have a Tri-Party Agreement. That is, if you are afloat on the waters of the Colorado where Arizona and Nevada share a water border, then either state can contact you, and enforce the laws of that state. The same with Arizona and California. That's why you have the Califonia stamp on your Arizona fishing license, the Nevada stamp on your Arizona license, or the Arizona stamp on your California fishing license. (Nevada and California do not share a water border on the Colorado River.)

If you're on a boat on the Colorado near Yuma, and an Arizona Game and Fish Officer contacts you, they will be enforcing Arizona law. Same body of water, and a California Depart of Fish and Game (or more likely a San Bernadino County Sheriff's Office) contacts you they will be enforcing California state law. Fishing from the shore? Don't need the adjoining states' fishing stamp. Fishing from a boat, and you do.

Operating the boat drunk (over 0.08% BAC) and the same story applies. The state line doesn't matter, just the agency that makes contact with you.

The state line for Nevada, Arizona and California follow the center of the old Colorado river channel. That has been obscured since the creation of Hoover Dam that formed Lake Mead (Nevada and Arizona), Lake Mohave behind Davis Dam (Nevada and Arizona), Lake Havasu (California and Arizona) and downstream to Mexico.

ants
May 16, 2011, 02:18 AM
Add to AlaskaMan:

Triphammer will be fishing adjacent to Imperial County, not San Berdoo County.

Taniwha
May 16, 2011, 02:22 AM
I know this is going to sound silly but,
Why don`t you leave it in your truck?
When in doubt err on the side of caution

Jeff F
May 16, 2011, 10:18 AM
Former CA resident that tries to keep up -

UNLOADED Open carry is legal CA.


And your point is?
Why would you want to open carry an unloaded gun?
All you are asking for is interaction with LE thats probably not going to end well.
Just because you can does not mean you should.
Open carry of a loaded sidearm is legal here, and I do sometimes, but I would not in Reno, Sparks, LV, or any of the other big city's. It can just be a can of worms you don't want to open.

hermannr
May 16, 2011, 01:53 PM
Alaska Man. Are you sure you are under the law of the state that checks your credentials? If so, I really like the Columbia River rules better..UGH! Much rather know for sure what the law is, then have to guess who will check me.

Greg528iT
May 16, 2011, 02:20 PM
those must be some big scary fish, needing to go in armed. ;) Now off the coast of Cali, fishing for Sharks, hey I'd want my gun. :D
just joshing

ants
May 16, 2011, 03:27 PM
Maybe hermannr misunderstood AlaskaMan's comment.

The state official who stops you will check your fishing license.





Now, the OP question wasn't about fishing licenses.
It was about carrying a concealed firearm.
That's not a fish license regulation.

A state's public safety regulations are enforceable within its boundary.
Each state DOES have a specific surveyed boundary,
regardless of whether they flooded the river or not.
The regulations of a state apply within its boundaries only.
[Example: Commit murder while boating in the river on the California side,
and the Arizona LE official may hold you until the California LE official arrives.
You will be charged under California law if you were on the CA side of the boundary.]



And yes, them bullhead catfish get REALLY big.
Better shoot 'em before they shoot you.

dprice3844444
May 16, 2011, 03:32 PM
check with your local dept of licensing and see if they have reciprosity aggreements with the other states

dprice3844444
May 16, 2011, 03:35 PM
http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concealed_Weapons/Reciprocity/

arizona

dprice3844444
May 16, 2011, 03:39 PM
http://www.ccwusa.com/id1.html california-no reciprosity from any other state

Triphammer
May 16, 2011, 10:53 PM
I can only hope to hook a fish that would require shooting. Simple fact is whenever I'm dressed I'm carrying a firearm, barring legal prohibition. I'm as likely to need a gun on a remote backwater as in a Walmart parking lot (so far, glory to all that is holy, has been never). I don't like the idea of leaving it locked in my car for several hours. If there's any way to be legal if & when I enter califoria waters I would apprciate knowing it. It doesn't have to be on my person but as that is my customary carry, that is how I phrased the question. Sorry for any misdirection on my part.

AlaskaMan
May 16, 2011, 11:49 PM
A state's public safety regulations are enforceable within its boundary.
Each state DOES have a specific surveyed boundary,
regardless of whether they flooded the river or not.
The regulations of a state apply within its boundaries only.
[Example: Commit murder while boating in the river on the California side,
and the Arizona LE official may hold you until the California LE official arrives.
You will be charged under California law if you were on the CA side of the boundary.]


Not exactly.

Arizona Revised statute 37-620.11. Enactment of compact

The interstate compact for jurisdiction on the Colorado river is enacted into law as follows:

Section I. Concurrent Jurisdiction

A. If conduct is prohibited by two adjoining party states, courts and law enforcement officers in either state who have jurisdiction over criminal offenses committed in a county where the Colorado river forms a common interstate boundary have concurrent jurisdiction to arrest, prosecute and try offenders for the prohibited conduct that is committed anywhere on the boundary water between the two states and concurrent jurisdiction to arrest offenders for prohibited conduct that is committed on any land mass within twenty-five air miles of the Colorado river or within twenty-five air miles of any lake that is formed by or is a part of the Colorado river.

B. This compact does not authorize:

1. Prosecution of any person for conduct which is lawful in the state where it was committed.

2. Any conduct prohibited by any party state.

Section II. Ratification

This compact is ratified by enactment of the language of this compact, or substantially similar language expressing the same purpose, by at least two states of which the Colorado river forms a common boundary.

California Penal Code
853.1. (a) Pursuant to the authority vested in this state by
Section 112 of Title 4 of the United States Code, the Legislature of
the State of California hereby ratifies the Colorado River Crime
Enforcement Compact as set forth in Section 853.2.
(b) The purpose of this compact is to promote the interests of
justice with regard to crimes committed on the Colorado River by
avoiding jurisdictional issues as to whether a criminal act sought to
be prosecuted was committed on one side or the other of the exact
boundary of the channel, and thus avoiding the risk that an offender
may go free on technical grounds because neither state is able to
establish that the offense was committed within its boundaries.
(c) This compact shall become operative when ratified by law in
the State of Arizona; and shall remain in full force and effect so
long as the provisions of this compact, as ratified by the State of
Arizona, remain substantively the same as the provisions of this
compact, as ratified by this section. This compact may be amended in
the same manner as is required for it to be ratified to become
operative.

853.2. (a) All courts and officers now or hereafter having and
exercising jurisdiction in any county which is now or may hereafter
be formed in any part of this state bordering upon the Colorado
River, or any lake formed by, or which is a part of, the Colorado
River, shall have and exercise jurisdiction in all criminal cases
upon those waters concurrently with the courts of and officers of the
State of Arizona, so far and to the extent that any of these bodies
of water form a common boundary between this state and the State of
Arizona. In addition, the officers shall have concurrent jurisdiction
with the officers of the State of Arizona on any land mass within 25
air miles of the Colorado River, or within 25 air miles of any lake
formed by, or that is a part of, the Colorado River.
(b) This section applies only to those crimes which are
established in common between the States of Arizona and California;
and an acquittal or conviction and sentence by one state shall bar a
prosecution for the same act or omission by the other.
(c) This compact shall not be construed to bar the enforcement of
the penal laws of either state not established in common with the
other, provided that the act or omission proscribed occurs on that
state's side of the river channel boundary.
(d) This compact does not apply to Division 3.5 (commencing with
Section 9840) of the Vehicle Code, relating to registration of
vessels, or to Section 658.7 of the Harbors and Navigation Code,
relating to the display of a ski flag.


The reason why it became an issue about fishing is because the OP was about fishing, and the state officers will almost certainly be making the contact to check fishing license status and THEN will find the weapon issue.

Please note that these respective states have included the lands within 25 miles on either side of the shore.

Blackrock
May 17, 2011, 12:11 AM
I did a Kayak trip through the Topock Gorge area of the Colorado river about a month ago and carried my snubby .38spcl in my lunch pack. Put in and take out on the Azside but had Neada and California to the starboard side the whole trip. Only law of any sort I saw was a Az Fish and Game officer and he was cruising upstream and just waved.

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