Micro Desert Eagle and Buffalo Bore +P


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OldStumps
May 14, 2011, 06:54 PM
Just to continue from that thread that was lost during conversion:

kokapelli:

The BB 95 gr HP expanded to .52" - 46% (average of the three wing pairs). This compares to the Magtech HP which got to .53" across the three pairs of wings from the P3AT. The BB HP was less wingy (ie., the expanded part was more solid around the circumfrence).

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kokapelli
May 14, 2011, 11:01 PM
In the Goldenloki gel test the Corbon 90gr jhp from the p3at penetrated 10.9" and expanded to .645.

Might be worth considering also.

OldStumps
May 15, 2011, 12:44 AM
Do you have a link to that? Sounds like a great round for the P3AT.

MICHAEL T
May 15, 2011, 01:50 AM
here

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/tests.htm



its my 2nd choice after corbon DPX

OldStumps
May 15, 2011, 09:18 AM
Guys, it's the DPX 80gr that expands to .645". The 90gr Corbon only expands to .463". What is of interest here to me is that while I don't think BB is still using the GD bullets, the JHP in the rounds I shot achieved about .05" more expansion than the Speer GDHP rounds (and the Corbon 90gr JHP). The DPX of course is an all copper bullet and it's not the bullet mushrooming so much as very durable wings that don't get wrapped back exposing a lead core. This will definitely do more damage in my opinion. Need to compare velocities and energy to the other things I've shot from the P3AT and try to adjust to MDE performance with same bullets. It would be worth testing a box if things look comparable.

Thanks!

OldStumps
May 15, 2011, 10:11 AM
Okay, I've done some quick spreadsheet work and here are my estimates of Corbon performance in the MDE compared with what I've found:

Maker--------------Velocity-----ME------Expansion---Penetration

BB +P 95gr-----------937-------185-------.520"-------10.0"

Corbon 90gr JHP------753*------113*-----.463"--------9.0"*

MT GG 85gr-----------595-------67-------.530"@------9.0"

Corbon 80gr DPX------755*------100*-----.645"-------10.9"

*-Estimate
@-Core did not fully expand, wings did not fold all the way back.

Two things of importance here. When I look at the DPX bullet image it's the wings that provide the larger expansion. Given that, the MT GG JHP has now been added to the Expansion column. It was the core that didn't properly expand, but in gel the wings did hold up pretty well and gave a larger diameter than the BB +P. Secondly the energy loss with velocity drop is huge. Although an estimate, the DPX out of the MDE is estimated to fall to 54% of the BB +P velocity. The Corbon 90gr JHP to 61% of the BB +P velocity. Given the estimated slower velocities for the Corbon, I also have to question the amount of expansion that would occur with these bullets (although my gut is they will both expand pretty well).

I'm going to take the much higher energy of the BB with a little less penetration and maybe not the best overall expansion and call it good. If I run across some Corbon I may try a box, but for now I'm good with the BB +P.

Thanks and I will update the Loki link folks if they accept outside data on the BB +P.

kokapelli
May 15, 2011, 07:38 PM
I used to carry Gold Dot in all my 380s but have switched to fmj.
I'm more concerned about penetration than a little larger hole.

I made the switch after I purchased my Micro.

I'm just not satisfied with maybe 8"-10" of penetration especially when there is always the chance I might have to shoot through arms or something else before even reaching the torso. As far as "energy", it has been proven to my satisfaction that energy in these guns is not a factor.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/images/armobstacles.jpg

OldStumps
May 15, 2011, 09:53 PM
Glad you're comfortable with what you shoot and may have to shoot. Still, I wouldn't be too quick to discount the energy transmitted to the target. And for these guns it will be close to muzzle energy given their use. I do plan to do some pork rib and cloth testing ahead of gel sometime down the road. To me these differences in ammo are huge. Sportsmans Guide has the 90gr Corbon JHP. I'll buy a box next ammo order and see how good my estimate is.

As another comfirmation if I haven't posted it before is the Ballistics by the Inch site.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/380auto2010.html

At the bottom of the list on this page is the MDE with a lot of the ammo we've been discussing. My chronos of the BB +P 95gr were a little faster than theirs (as were my P3AT numbers). And I think your 238 Sig is there. You can access their energy spreadsheets as well on site. Corbon is up there but still substantially less, IMHO.

Good discussion and thanks for your input, and of course to Wiry Irishman for kicking it off (sorry to have sidetracked it).

kokapelli
May 15, 2011, 10:05 PM
Thanks for that link. Always good to have comparisons.

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