Where did the 7.62x25 Surplus Ammo Go?


PDA






shotgunjoel
May 15, 2011, 09:19 PM
I've been watching the Tokarev market (both pistols and ammunition) for the past few months with the plan to buy a pistol and at least one tin of surplus ammo come summer. Well I've seen pistols come and go at J&G's, AIM, and Dan's, but they just got them in at Classic Arms, and Widener's still has them. The part that is scaring me is the surplus ammo. A couple of months ago J&G had Polish 1260 round tins for $90 (that's almost 22lr prices!). Other places had it for anywhere from $110-$140, then within that last month, it has all disappeared, except for Classic, who is selling it for $162 a tin! That's coming up on double what J&G had it for 2 months ago. So is the supply drying up, or are we just in between imports? Be reconsidering a Tokarev at this point due to the loss of cheap ammo, or do you think that it will come back soon? The reason that I haven't bought the gun yet is because I just sent in my C&R application, so I'm waiting on that. Should I buy a case from Classic at $162 now before it vanishes, or will it be back everywhere in a month or so? I'm rather new to the surplus thing, does this happen a lot with ammo, the supply running out, then another big import shipment getting in? Sorry for having about 30 questions, thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "Where did the 7.62x25 Surplus Ammo Go?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jmace57
May 15, 2011, 10:40 PM
Oh... I see 70 round boxes for $9.95, but with a quantity discount for over 11 boxes at $8.95 per box...

Caliper_RWVA
May 15, 2011, 10:59 PM
I only bought my Tokarev partly because of the cheap ammo, the other part is because I have ended up collecting Soviet Bloc firearms.

Honestly, after shooting the Tok, it doesn't matter to me if surplus runs out. I'll keep shooting this thing! Not only does it have a nice single action trigger, but it is darn accurate and makes a nice big boom (for a pistol) at the range! Just fun to shoot. Midway even has brass, so I'll eventually get a set of dies and start reloading for it.

woad_yurt
May 16, 2011, 09:47 AM
When I evaluate a possible purchase, I consider the current, not past, price. Toks are currently very affordable and 1200+ rounds of any centerfire ammo is still comparatively cheap at $160. This is a snooze-and-lose situation if ever there was one.

Hondo 60
May 16, 2011, 02:27 PM
J&G Sales said they don't anticipate getting any more surplus ammo.
So I bought dies, once fired brass & a couple of boxes of boxer-primed ammo.

It'd be great if we see prices like $5/70 rd box again, but I'm ready even if we don't.

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 16, 2011, 03:27 PM
The answer is simple, downrange.

jmace57
May 16, 2011, 05:37 PM
I ordered 11 boxes yesterday from Classic - got a confirmation. Just received an email "updating the status" to OUT OF STOCK.

shotgunjoel
May 16, 2011, 06:10 PM
I ordered 11 boxes yesterday from Classic - got a confirmation. Just received an email "updating the status" to OUT OF STOCK.
Well crap. That's the last that I've seen around. Let's all hope for another shipment. Anybody personally know importers that might deal in Tok ammo?

Weevil
May 16, 2011, 06:25 PM
I hope it hasn't dried up, but it happens.


Look at .303 Brit and the Enfield rifles. The were both dime a dozen a few years back. Lots of nice rifles for give away prices and .303 was everywhere for dirt cheap prices.

But no new military weapons being used in this caliber so no new ammo and the surplus ammo has dried up.

Now you're paying premium prices for .303 when you can find it that is.

shotgunjoel
May 17, 2011, 02:08 PM
Well so far the vote is split down the middle on whether We'll ever see surplus 7.62 Tok again. I'll wait and see, and hold off on the Tokarev purchase until both my C&R gets back, and ammo reappears.

Clark
May 17, 2011, 02:25 PM
I bought cases of Polish 7.62x25mm Tokarev ammo for 7 cents a shot in 15 years ago.

That is just about what it is worth today, where as Gold has gone up 3X or 4X.

And the Gold would have take up less floor space:(

carbuncle
May 17, 2011, 10:11 PM
Judging by the amount of brass I get as by-catch at the local indoor range, it's going downrange!

xr1200
May 17, 2011, 11:30 PM
I hate to say I told you so , but I did over 3 months ago. Surplus ammo would dry up and now these guns will become more expensive them 9mm to shoot.

Soon there will be a lot of $250 paper weights.

Fastcast
May 18, 2011, 12:26 PM
I hate to say I told you so , but I did over 3 months ago. Surplus ammo would dry up and now these guns will become more expensive them 9mm to shoot.

Soon there will be a lot of $250 paper weights.

:scrutiny: Ridicules!.....Commercial 7.62x25 cost no more than .45acp. With your rationale all the 1911's are paperweights also.

For what it's worth, I've shot just as much commercial S&B through my CZ52 as surplus. Why, because I like the consistency and accuracy better. Not to mention it's not corrosive.

My CZ won't become a paperweight because the surplus dries up. Anymore than it will because xr1200 predicted a surplus dry up but hated to say he told us so because he's so humble. lol

You want to play, you gotta pay......Never went into the 7.62x25 game figuring I'd only ever shoot cheap surplus. ;)

AethelstanAegen
May 18, 2011, 02:19 PM
The Prvi Partisan 7.62 Tok is WAY cheaper than .45acp. I have no doubts that even if I have to start shooting commercial ammo, my M57 will not be a paperweight. It's a nice little pistol so it'll still see use.

xr1200
May 18, 2011, 02:32 PM
Heres a link from slicks gun deals for how cheap 9mm is now and it will probably drop even more, or the next year or 2 . The problem with the 7.62 x 25 there isn't enough demand for it. Sure wolf, winchester and other companies will probably make it , but you won't see it cheaper them 9mm for new ammo.

You can't compare 7.62 x 25 ammo prices to 45acp prices as the component prices are not the same, you have to use a round that has the closest weight components and 9mm is the best available for a price comparison.

Sellier & Bellot 9mm 115gr. FMJ 2000 rnds $350 = $8.75 box , 1000 rnds $180= $9.00

Winchester white box 7.62 x 25 is $23.17 a box
Sellier & Bellot 7.62 x 25 is $15.97 a box

Fastcast
May 18, 2011, 02:43 PM
xr1200, this thread is about 7.62x25 not 9mm. :rolleyes:

What part of we like the cartridge and pistols that fire 7.62x25 and don't give a damn about the difference between the price of it and/or the 9mm cookie cutter pistols that fire that round? :banghead:

Weevil
May 18, 2011, 03:09 PM
Heres a link from slicks gun deals for how cheap 9mm is now and it will probably drop even more, or the next year or 2 . The problem with the 7.62 x 25 there isn't enough demand for it. Sure wolf, winchester and other companies will probably make it , but you won't see it cheaper them 9mm for new ammo.

You can't compare 7.62 x 25 ammo prices to 45acp prices as the component prices are not the same, you have to use a round that has the closest weight components and 9mm is the best available for a price comparison.

Sellier & Bellot 9mm 115gr. FMJ 2000 rnds $350 = $8.75 box , 1000 rnds $180= $9.00

Winchester white box 7.62 x 25 is $23.17 a box
Sellier & Bellot 7.62 x 25 is $15.97 a box



9mm isn't a very fair comparison. The reason it's so cheap is because of it's wipespread use by the militaries of the world and police.


.380 would be a better comparison.


WWB box of 50 95gr FMJ $20.99 [Midway]

Federal AE box of 50 95gr FMJ $16.79 [CTD]


Compared to 9mm everything looks expensive.


If all you're worried about is cheap ammo get a .22.

Personally I like to shoot a variety of weapons and calibers even if they do cost a few more dollars than 9mm.

xr1200
May 18, 2011, 03:23 PM
The plain truth is a lot of the ppl that bought these pistols because of the cheap ammo will now either stop shooting them, sell it, or leave it in the safe due to the high cost of shooting it now.

Also yugo 57 pistol is not really even accurate enough to make them an enjoyable range toy. My brother has one that misfires all the time and the point of impact is about 2 ft high and 4" to the left at 25 yrds. It will shoot a 4 inch group though, so if you can 't adjust the point of aim what good is it.

Another friend locally bought one in unissued condition and I advised against it, when he brought over the gun to show me it the barrel was actually ground and fit to the bushing with a grinder and a file, this one at least doesn't misfire and groups about 4 inches at 20 yrds. and it will hit POA at 15 yrds. but at 20-25 yrds. it is way off and agian no way to adjust the sights expect for windage.

So after taking into account how bad they shoot, price of ammo, and misfires.
why would anyone really take one of these guns over a accurate sig 9mm, SW or used glock for around $300 , that will hit where you aim them everytime.

With the high cost of the 7.62 ammo these distributors will be forced to sell of the rest of the m57 for $99 and they will become like the $99 7.62 russian revolver that no one wants to own or shoot anymore.

Ppl. bought these guns mainly for the cheap ammo, so it must be compared to another most common and cheapest to shoot center fire pistol cartridge which is 9mm.

You can not compare it to the cost of a .380 which is in short supply and very high demand right now, also 380 is not a commonly used as service pistol range cartridge.

If you want to compare it use either the 9mm, or 38 special which are both very common for range practice and competition shooting.

Weevil
May 18, 2011, 03:39 PM
Well I've got two Polish Toks and a CZ52.

Nice accuracy out of the Poles and acceptable out of the CZ.

Never had a misfire or problem of any sort from either of the Tokarevs.

The CZ has a problem with the pins liking to walk out, especially the slide-stop pin, but no misfires.

The Tokarevs are legendary for their reliability and it is one of the reasons so many different countries produced this pistol.

Sounds like your brother got a lemon.



As for running out of cheap ammo, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I've got about 4K of it on hand.

il_10
May 18, 2011, 03:44 PM
XR1200, the rear site is adjustable for windage, and elevation with a file. If it's shooting low, take some material off the front site. If it's shooting high, take some material off the bottom of the trough in the rear site or add some material to the front site. It's not rocket science, and a 4" group at 25 yards is pretty good for a 50 year old service pistol. If it's misfiring, why not replace the firing pin or otherwise troubleshoot the problem? A tighter bushing will improve accuracy as well, and can easily be found on numrich or Sarco.

Weevil
May 18, 2011, 03:50 PM
You can not compare it to the cost of a .380 which is in short supply and very high demand right now, also 380 is not a commonly used as service pistol range cartridge.


So we're supposed to compare it one of the most commonly used calibers on earth, and that's not in short supply?

So who's using 7.62x25mm as a service caliber nowadays??



If you want to compare it use either the 9mm, or 38 special which are both very common for range practice and competition shooting.




Why???

7.62 TOK isn't commonly used for range practice either at least not anywhere close to as much as 9mm or .38 spl.

And just which competitions is 7.62 TOK used at???

xr1200
May 18, 2011, 04:20 PM
Weevil - your comments are jus knit picking my statements, for sake of argument then compare it to the 30 luger, 9mm luger and 40sw cost.

All are sevice caliber auto catridges and one is obsolete (30 cal luger) no guns made for it and very expensive.

I am leaving 45acp out of this as it is a very large caliber and brass, bullets and powder all cost more when making his round.

So using winchester white box for comparison

30 cal luger $55.65 win super x , for 50 rounds
7.62 x 25 $23.17 for 50 rounds.
9mm $19.00 for 100 rounds
40sw $25 for a 100 rounds
Even throw in 45acp $30 for a 100 rounds

xr1200
May 18, 2011, 04:30 PM
the front sight is to small to file down and my brothers gun will not drift the sight over far enough to bring it on target.

I feel the tokarevs were just designed as last ditch defense pistols made to shoot at short distances, the armories didn't really care where they shoot.

Try and find a range report where someone actually posted pics for accuarcy of one of these pistols or point of aim at 25 yrds. from a rest with actual pics. It doesn't exist anywhere on the net.

Fastcast
May 18, 2011, 04:43 PM
Weevil - your comments are jus knit picking my statements, for sake of argument.

Because your argument paints a broad stroke of all these 7.62x25 pistols and the people that own them.....We know you don't like these pistols or cartridge but why you feel the need to educate (insult) the owners to your way of thinking is getting old. If you like the 9mm Sig, S&W & Glocks so much than go play in those threads, instead of always coming to the 7.62x25 threads and causing trouble.

BTW.....I buy 50 rounds of S&B 7.62x25 from my FFL for $16.00.....Not $23.....Chew on that! :neener:

xr1200
May 18, 2011, 04:55 PM
I posted SB and $15.99 a box, but for the comparison I used the same american made economy ammo by winchester. Informing and educating ppl is not insulting them, I have experience handling disassembling, shooting 2 of these current M57 so know exactly what I am talking about.

shotgunjoel
May 18, 2011, 05:00 PM
xr1200, just stop fighting this fight, no one is agreeing to you. Go shoot your 9mm and feel superior to all of us idiots.

451 Detonics
May 18, 2011, 05:09 PM
this one at least doesn't misfire and groups about 4 inches at 20 yrds. and it will hit POA at 15 yrds. but at 20-25 yrds. it is way off

This sentence makes little sense to me. If the gun shoots to point of aim at 15 yards what happens between 15 and 20 yards? I know the bullet doesn't start turning left (or right). A gun that shoots to POA at 15 yards will not be "way off" just because the distance increases 5 yards. The shooter may cause the impact to shift greatly but the bullet itself is launched in a straight line. Now if the sight aren't exactly on then yes the bullet will drift but at 5 yards we are talking a drift on less than an inch...not "way off".

Weevil
May 18, 2011, 05:53 PM
I think I'm starting to see why xr1200's friend's and relatives don't pay much attention to what he has to say.


:D

Fastcast
May 18, 2011, 06:16 PM
I have experience handling disassembling, shooting 2 of these current M57 so know exactly what I am talking about.

Guess that makes you thee expert now.....For the record I don't own the M57 or TT33 because I didn't much care for them either but that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, anymore than your assertion that all these pistols will become paperweights because the cheap, out of spec surplus may dry up.

People like different things and for different reasons, deal with it. Your opinion is just that.

I bought my CZ52 because I liked the unusual engineering and the hot rod 7.62x25 round.....Not because I could buy cheap surplus.

MY CZ pictured with S&B, long before any surplus concerns.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/fastcast/CZ52-1.jpg

rogertc1
May 18, 2011, 08:53 PM
I horded over 7000 rounds when 7.62X25 was cheap in the tuna cans. reason it is no more is because of all the guns that came out in it. Like the AR-15 upper, PSP-43C Pistol and the Coalfire Sterling Pistol. I have the last two plus a Tok &CZ52.

shotgunjoel
May 19, 2011, 12:48 PM
I horded over 7000 rounds when 7.62X25 was cheap in the tuna cans. reason it is no more is because of all the guns that came out in it. Like the AR-15 upper, PSP-43C Pistol and the Coalfire Sterling Pistol. I have the last two plus a Tok &CZ52.
Well that's our answer, Roger has it all.

woad_yurt
May 19, 2011, 03:02 PM
Although I bought quite a few spam cans when they were cheap, I'd have still gotten Toks or CZ 52s even if the surplus ammo wasn't available. They are some stormin' handguns. I'm glad I did get it cheap, though, because I recently traded for a PPSh with 4 35 round mags. It's one cool, cool thing.

For the guy who says Toks are no good because his brother's Tok came with hand-ground parts:
Don't dump on a whole line of anything because someone you know bought one which had been butchered by some clown. If anyone's got a Tok that jams, fix it!

mgmorden
May 19, 2011, 03:10 PM
Meh - I own both a CZ-52 and a Yugo M57 Tokarev. Neither have ever seen surplus ammo (at least since I owned them ;)). I might buy a crate if they come in again, but having to buy commercial ammo hasn't stopped me so far - won't stop me in the future. Personally in the past I avoided the surplus stuff just because it was corrosive and I didn't want the increased cleaning labor.

xr1200
May 19, 2011, 05:41 PM
If I owned one of these guns, I would sell it off and the ammo, while there still is a demand and guns available for it. Eventually you will what you have is the same situation as the 30 cal luger.

I'm sure that you will have wolf and other european manufacturers, sell some cheap ball ammo for around $15 a box for a few yrs.

But what will eventually happen is that demand for the cartridge drop off year after year and you will find that only a few specialty companies will make the round and then it may get has high as 30 cal luger at $50 + a box.

Ammunition manufactures will only produce ammo if there is large enough demand for it.

There have been a lot of good cartridges produced over the years that are now out of production, like the 41 AE, 5mm remington etc. Your always better off sticking with established rounds like the 9mm , 380, 45 etc, than any of these odd ball rounds.

As for quality and accuracy I would like to see some of these 7.62 x 25 advocates actually post a quick YOUTUBE or even a proven online range report that shows these tokarevs will shoot decent groups and point of aim at 25 yrds. The truth is they don't exist, all you will find is some guy posting pics of blasting all over a man size target at close range. So if they are such great guns, show us the proof, I've fired 2 of the latest examples and they would either misfire or not hit POA or group well.

The best thing anyone can do with one of these pistols and ammo right now is sell it off while the demand is high for the ammo and gun and capitalize on the shortages and make a good profit on the ammo.

amd6547
May 19, 2011, 06:01 PM
My Romanian tokarev is my backpacking and emergency backup pistol. I have a sealed spam can of ammo which I will be saving...all shooting I do with it will be with whatever box of ammo I happen to find at the gunshow.
I have no problem shooting tight groups at 25yds...and I also have no trouble hitting rocks and things at 100yds...the round is very flat shooting, and the sights seem to be set up for POA at that range. A bad guy in the open with xr1200's attitude would be in serious jeopardy if I felt it necessary to drop into a field position and launch some 7.62x25 at him.
BTW, if anyone has any of these worthless 30 lugars xr1200 keeps hypothesizing about, I would be glad to give them a good home.

xr1200
May 19, 2011, 06:49 PM
Most 30 cal lugers either PO8 or Browning HP 30 cal or Broom handle 30 cal are usually restricted to pure collectors or safe queens, some pll shoot them occassionally but not many.

This is why a shooter grade PO8 in 9mm is everyones choice.

I agree the yugo 57 you might be able to hit boulders or the side of cliff with one at 100 yrds.

OldMac
May 19, 2011, 07:00 PM
I have a Romanian, Polish, and Yugo. All have good accuracy equal to my 9mm Glock and the Yugo is better. Reloading is important for hollow points. There is still enough fmj for target practice for a long time in the future.

mgmorden
May 19, 2011, 11:14 PM
xr1200: I've already successfully made 7.62x25 ammo out of cut down .223 brass loaded with .30 carbine bullets. Trust me - my guns won't ever stop shooting so long as I have a mind to keep shooting them.

You seem to have some awful vendetta against people enjoying shooting their guns.

CornCod
May 20, 2011, 12:15 AM
I bought my CZ-52 because it was an interesting service pistol. It really came into its own, however, during the great ammo shortage of 2008-2009. With all the shortages and high ammo prices, 7.62X25mm was the cheapest centerfire option available. The practice enabled me to easily qualify with my corrections agency for those two years. If the surplus dries up, I will certainly shoot it less. I am already shooting the CZ less because of all the cheap Tula commercial 9mm flooding the country.

Snowdog
May 20, 2011, 12:49 AM
Also yugo 57 pistol is not really even accurate enough to make them an enjoyable range toy. My brother has one that misfires all the time and the point of impact is about 2 ft high and 4" to the left at 25 yrds. It will shoot a 4 inch group though, so if you can 't adjust the point of aim what good is it.

Both my M57s are quite accurate. They make for absolutely enjoyable range toys. Heck, I've even purchase dies and have rolled some of my own, with excellent results (perfectly mushroomed 85gr JSP into Play-Doh and wet pack.

XR1200, if you live near me, I will be more than happy to invite you next time I take my M57s out if you'd like to give the M57 another chance. You are welcome to choose from my surplus stash (Polish, Yugoslavian and Romanian). I believe if you take me up on this offer, you will encounter two M57s that may very well change your opinion concerning the accuracy of these excellent surplus pistols. From what I've read from others who also own the M57, my experience with the M57 is the norm.

Also, I have about 600 rounds between the two of them without one single malfunction. This says a lot not only for the pistol, but for foreign surplus ammunition as well. I'm not saying there aren't any dogs out there, but most reports I've heard of the Yugo M57 reflect my own.

shotgunjoel
May 20, 2011, 12:56 AM
xr1200, nobody is listening to you anymore.
As for quality and accuracy I would like to see some of these 7.62 x 25 advocates actually post a quick YOUTUBE or even a proven online range report that shows these tokarevs will shoot decent groups and point of aim at 25 yrds. The truth is they don't exist, all you will find is some guy posting pics of blasting all over a man size target at close range. So if they are such great guns, show us the proof, I've fired 2 of the latest examples and they would either misfire or not hit POA or group well.
If you want proof of people's claims of accuracy, then I want proof of your issues with the guns. PM me the links to the youtube videos.

xr1200
May 20, 2011, 01:58 AM
Shotgunjoel - Youtube videos or reliable range reports showing POA shot and placement and groups at 25 yrds. don't exist.

Only tests or videos you see are printed statements on forums, no targets or verifing range etc, just a lot of wild shooting.

Try and find one from a verifiable reputable source, showing group and distances, they simply don't exist.

So you claim to know of them , well then lets see it !

Fastcast
May 20, 2011, 07:38 AM
Hey xr1200.....The only thing wild around here are your claims. Like Joe said lets see your own videos sport or some other reputable sources videos of malfunctioning Toks all over or off paper.

Put up or shut up big shot, balls in your court, you started the argument, as usual. I'm sure this thread will get shut down shortly so hurry up please! :)

xr1200's - MO.....Come into thread, act like a know it all, spews nonsense and insults others choices which are not pertinent to the original topic just to piss people off, thinks everyone should own the same pistol in 9mm of course. The cookie cutter world according to xr1200. :barf:

PabloJ
May 20, 2011, 09:17 AM
As long as people keep hoarding ammo one thing is sure to happen the price will keep rising.

woad_yurt
May 20, 2011, 10:15 AM
xr1200:

I was wondering why you're so bent on trashing this pistol so I did a search of your posts to see if it was this particular gun that got you so fired up or if if it was part of a general pattern of behavior. Anyway....

Back in March, you posted the following:

Working on a yugo 57 that my brother got at gander for $200, looks unissued, we fired it and it did shoot point of aim and got 4 shots touching at 10 yrds. But when shot at 25 yrds. groups opened up to wide to really determine there size.

But, in this thread:

Another friend locally bought one in unissued condition and I advised against it, when he brought over the gun to show me it the barrel was actually ground and fit to the bushing with a grinder and a file, this one at least doesn't misfire and groups about 4 inches at 20 yrds. and it will hit POA at 15 yrds. but at 20-25 yrds. it is way off and agian no way to adjust the sights expect for windage.

How does a pistol shoot holes-touching groups at 10 yards and 25 yard groups that are too big to measure? And then, you post about another which allegedly does the same thing (POA at 15 yards but way off at 20.) How is it even possible?

In this thread:

Also yugo 57 pistol is not really even accurate enough to make them an enjoyable range toy.

But, on December 12, you posted:

If you buy the Tokarev get the yugo one as they are probaly the best quality....

Gee whiz guy, what's the deal with the ever evolving stories and the interchangeable gun histories? I raise the BS flag on this stuff. Please, POA at 15 yards but way off at 20???!!! Come on, now....

One last tidbit:

Ammunition manufactures will only produce ammo if there is large enough demand for it.

In addition to PPShs and CZ 52s, I think they made almost 2,000,000 Tokarev pistols....

Tokarevsrule
May 20, 2011, 10:28 AM
I bought a m57 because I wanted a ccw pistol and a range toy. I also had very little to spend. I like the round mainly because of the stoppnig power. I keep it loaded with Wolf HPs. The low cost was just a benefit. I didn't expect it to stay around. I am planning on getting a 9mm barrel as a plinking barrel, and save the 7.62x25 for defense. 9mm is way too weak for defense.


___________________________________________________
Quote; A 9mm is a 45 set to stun!

xr1200
May 20, 2011, 03:55 PM
Hey Fastcast - Can anyone provide one reputable range report with targets and groups no, they don't exist.

If the M57's were as accurate as ppl claim , then there would be examples all over the net.

Look at the well documented SA range officer reports and ruger sr1911 reports out there, there have been a lot more m57's sold in the last 2 yrs. and not one decent review with a range report.

There is only one indoor shooting range report on YOUTUBE that shows the shooter getting a 2 foot group firing off hand at either 15-20 yrds. so I guess you call that good grouping.

As as you ask I can provide nothing to support claims of good grouping they don't exist , but here is a youtube link to a guy shooting the 2 foot groups.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkhXZaaMBOY and it is a romanium tokarev not the yugo m57

So fastcast where are all the good reviews you speak of.

The simple truth is most of these M57's shoot like crap and anyone that owns one doesn't want to embarress themselves by posting actual range results.

JustinJ
May 20, 2011, 04:16 PM
A friend has an M57 that is easy as hell to make center of mass hits with every pull of the trigger at 50 yards. Did we measure groups with a ruler? No but we were assessing practical use. I have one also that neither of us cant hit a damned thing with. His appears unissued and mine loooks like its been to hell. But me and all the others who dont care to take the time to set up a utube video must be lying.

Headless
May 20, 2011, 05:23 PM
My CZ52 is accurate enough to hit tennis balls 8 of 8 @ 25 yards. No, i don't have target pictures to post - because i shoot tennis balls rather than paper targets usually...and when i do shoot paper targets, i don't keep them around just to prove something to some guy on a forum later by posting videos or pics of my last shooting session. Some of the shots would be more like 30-35 yards since the ball rolls away when you hit it. That's good enough for me; i don't expect to be shooting many people @ 200 yards with my pistol anyway, that's why I have a rifle. My CZ52 doesn't need to shoot sub 1MOA groups, neither does my S&W 5906, my S&W 642, etc. etc. etc... in fact, with sight radius of 6-8 inches, I never would expect to shoot that kind of group anyway. A handgun isn't a rifle, don't expect to be able to aim it like one. Tennis ball sized groups @ 30+ yards are quite reasonable for offhand service pistol shooting.

You're free to disbelieve all you want, but your claims of going from 'touching groups' at 10 yards to "too wide to determine their size' at 20yards are indicative of user error rather than the firearm. Unless those bullets are just tumbling around and curving off into infinity, it's just not going to happen in 15yards that your groups go from touching (1/2") to "too big to measure" (18"? 20"?). Believe it or not, alot of people just shoot their guns and don't find there to be much of a point in posting youtube videos with targets just to prove to somebody somewhere (who can't shoot straight) that it's really their inability to shoot causing the problem and not the gun they are shooting. I see guys like you at the range all the time claiming pistol x or rifle Y are just inaccurate guns. Funny how other people shoot them just fine.

Shadow 7D
May 20, 2011, 06:42 PM
Once again, XR

Why the HATE, dude you don't have the guns, and have shown you 'you know what' on more than few of these threads, please stop thread jacking....

So has anybody found more ammo, I heard a rumor that Century might have some in mid summer

xr1200
May 20, 2011, 06:43 PM
I am not questioning the accuracy or functioning of the cz52 it is a completely different design. We are talking about the yugo M57's Tokarev currently available.

CZ52 is no longer imported or currently on the market, except for used and auction sites.

Also no hate in my post, I am just stating facts and trying to inform and educate the prospective buyer of one of these current tokarev guns, the high road is supposed to be an open forum for discussion.

So far no one who has replied to my posts have even been able to dispute my fiindings on these guns, not one poster has been able to show the groups or accuracy claims of their guns, so the real question is why not !

Shadow 7D
May 20, 2011, 06:51 PM
Funny all my toks run fine, and are as accurate as I can shoot them, the sights take some getting used to, but they definitely aren't some jennings pistol that hit's anywhere but where they are aimed.

xr1200
May 20, 2011, 06:56 PM
Shadow then lets see some groups at 25 yrds

Shadow 7D
May 20, 2011, 07:09 PM
lets see ten bucks so I can go to the range....

amd6547
May 20, 2011, 07:52 PM
I don't own a Yugoslav Tok, I prefer the classic Tok as used in world war and revolution for 50 plus years, and used to this day in parts of the world.
My Tok is Romanian and has functioned perfectly.
Accuracy is such that I can easily stay in the black on an NRA 25 yard bullseye.
As I wrote previously, I like to pick out rocks on the 100yd berm and shoot them...they are usually soup can size...I either hit them, or hit close enough to roll them down the berm.
My favorite handgun activity at my club are the plates...we have 10" round steel plates at 40yds...shooting them is fun, and I always try out my pistols there.
The Tok has no problem hitting the plates at all...and it rings them and sets them swinging more than the 9mm.

Shadow 7D
May 20, 2011, 08:24 PM
that has been my experience too

Snowdog
May 20, 2011, 08:55 PM
Yeah, I'd say at this point XR, you're the one who's in need of posting proof of your results.

Post a pic of the horrible M57s you've had and also take a photo of this mysterious target your're talking about, or it didn't happen. For all we know, you could be some 14-year-old kid who's only experience with guns is airsoft and video games.
With all these demands for "proof", you've offered absolutely none yourself.

Prove to us you're not some kid in junior high. Prove to us you really have a brother. Prove to us you've actually ever had any real-world experience with a Tokarev. Unless you provide this proof, I'm going to presume you to be a liar.

See how annoying that is? That's the exact thing you're doing here by demanding video proof of what the vast majority of M57s are saying. You are, without question, calling all of us liars and yes, that's quite offensive.

My previous offer still stands. PM me if you're interested.

Shadow 7D
May 20, 2011, 08:56 PM
Snow, he won't, For some reason, he is always looking to bash tokarevs and the Tok round,
and derail any thread about them, like this one.

mgmorden
May 20, 2011, 10:16 PM
Snow, he won't, For some reason, he is always looking to bash tokarevs and the Tok round,
and derail any thread about them, like this one.

Yep. Xr, show me on the doll where the Tokarev touched you . . .

Shadow 7D
May 20, 2011, 10:54 PM
YOU OWE ME A KEYBOARD
shoot, now I gotta find a rag

leadcounsel
May 20, 2011, 11:03 PM
I like my Toks, and I also hoarded some ammo when it was a meager 6 cents per round!!!! Can't find it anywhere for cheap these days.

While simplistic, it's a great rugged pistol that fires a HOT round. Not many other handgun rounds and penetrate the US GI kevlar helmet. www.theboxotruth.com.

mongo4567
May 21, 2011, 12:22 AM
Commercial 7.62x25 is about the same as all the other similar rounds in price to me, and I don't see that changing much. There are a lot of pistols out there chambered in it. I don't shoot the round a lot, but I do like it. Heck, I don't shoot .38, .45, or .40 much for the same reason. I was fortunate enough to get some surplus when it was cheap.

XR bashes most everyting except the xr1200; never knew a TC Contender was a faulty design till he told me. Blaser should quit making all those high end break-barrels, they are inferior by design apparently.

My Toks are as accurate as anything else I've shot, and they shoot to point of aim. I've seen few pistol shots percentage-wise that can shoot to the potential of common pistols (3-4" or less at 25 yards).

xr1200
May 21, 2011, 01:08 AM
Like I said a lot words and now character bashing, show the proof, everything else is just BS.

For those wondering the xr1200 is and overpriced, overweight 883, prefer a gsxr1000, or cbr1000 any day, I simply tell it like it is.

Snowdog
May 21, 2011, 01:45 AM
Oh, I forgot about this review I made for my first M57:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=529660

XR, I know you weren't there to personally witness these groups, so these results aren't likely going to mean much to you. However, I do believe these groups shown are from slow aimed shots from a sandbag at in indoor range at 25 yards.
If you accompany me the next time I take these to the range, you can see this for yourself. Heck, you might even outshoot me and squeeze out tighter groups from my M57s.

shotgunjoel
May 21, 2011, 10:30 AM
Like I said a lot words and now character bashing, show the proof, everything else is just BS.
Um, you don't have any proof either, and all you are doing is bashing the Tokarev. So far we have had many owners on this and several other Tok threads say nothing but good things about the Yugo M57, and you come rolling in and say that they are all junk, and wonder why no one listens to you. Let's say Rasmussen took a poll of gun owners on their opinions of the Yugo M57. They'd call all of these people who would give a favorable report, say 20 people. They would also call you in the course of their random survey, and you'd give a negative report. Rasmussen would then come out and say that over 95% of gun owners have a favorable opinion of the Yugo Tok. Now based on that stat, what do you think the general consensus is on the Yugo M57?

xr1200
May 21, 2011, 01:40 PM
To the contrary, if you do a google search on tokarev pistols , you will find that its a crap shoot on getting a good one. What I found is that there are more bad ones then good ones out there.

Snowdog , yours seem to group ok it would be nice if they all did this well.

fallout mike
May 21, 2011, 02:19 PM
I believe the main reason the surplus dried up is bc several different platforms developed conversion kits for their guns so that people could take advantage of the cheap ammo. The dry up was inevitable.

Shadow 7D
May 21, 2011, 02:36 PM
While I believe that the tok is a rather accurate platform with great accuracy potentiality,

You will read, and learn from experience that the sights are not Modern, NOR easy to use
so, to put it politely XR, it's as accurate as the shooter, and we all know how accurate most of those are. If a guy can't keep it in the 5 ring with a buckmark or MKIII at 7yard, what makes you think all a sudden he'll be popping bulleyes at 25?

shotgunjoel
May 21, 2011, 11:23 PM
I believe the main reason the surplus dried up is bc several different platforms developed conversion kits for their guns so that people could take advantage of the cheap ammo. The dry up was inevitable.
Thank you, a post that's actually on topic. I could totally see how that would cause the supply to quickly dwindle.

toivo
May 22, 2011, 01:12 AM
Ppl. bought these guns mainly for the cheap ammo, so it must be compared to another most common and cheapest to shoot center fire pistol cartridge which is 9mm.
Not everybody bought them for that purpose. I have a historical interest in the Eastern Bloc handguns -- CZ, Tokarev, Nagant, Makarov -- and I don't shoot corrosive ammo in mine. If I want to shoot cheap, I shoot 9mm or .22LR.

That said, I would like to pick up a couple of spam cans of the cheap stuff just as an emergency stockpile.

Dain Bramage
May 22, 2011, 02:39 PM
I don't condone XR's opiniated hijack of this thread, but I have witnessed some of the oddball Tokarev shooting behavior he describes. I have a Norinco TU-90 variant that shoots tight 1" groups at 8 yards that blow out to 8" at 25 yards, high and to the right. My CZ52 doesn't do this with the same ammo. Some weird convergence is the only way I can explain it.

Otherwise, I like the little Tok. It has a high polish blue finish, that I don't care to take a file to for sight adjustments. It's slim, has a crisp trigger, and a lot of the inherent goodness of the Browning design it borrowed. The clever removable trigger group is neat engineering, plus it cleans my sinuses out at the range. And everybody else's too.

Back to the ammo shortage; if anyone finds any, tell me. I'm about half way through my case of Romanian.

Obiwan
May 23, 2011, 09:22 PM
If I manage to sell my CZ52 I will have a bunch of ammo for sale!

JustinJ
May 24, 2011, 12:53 PM
I think the ammo shortage is likely due to the recent availablity of cheap tokarevs from a number of distributors. I doubt there are nearly enough ar or other conversions out there to explain the ammo situation.

Dain Bramage
May 24, 2011, 01:46 PM
If we all take XR's advice and sell our 7.62x25mm guns, won't that just leave an equal number of new slobs with the same problem?

xr1200
May 24, 2011, 03:36 PM
Dream all you want the surplus ammo is gone. As for selling the ammo and guns off, most ppl that will buy them are either new buyers, uninformed or die hards that will continue with these guns no matter what.

Better off to sell them, now then to be sitting on a dog that won't sell.

Other issue is parts nothing available for the M57 yugos or any of the other models.

AethelstanAegen
May 24, 2011, 11:13 PM
Anyone thinking about buying a Yugo M57 Tokarev can ignore xr1200...I think he's just hoping to buy all ours cheap. I bought one about a month ago and love it. Commercial ammo is still cheaper than many other calibers I own, so even with out surplus available, I'll be shooting mine regularly with the added plus of not having to worry about corrosive ammo. I think the bang for your buck on an M57 is well worth it.

xr1200
May 25, 2011, 12:08 AM
I don't know where you went to school, but $7.95 for 50 rounds of 9mm is a lot cheaper than $15.95 a 50 qty. box the cheapest commercial 7.62 x 25 currently out there !

fallout mike
May 25, 2011, 07:28 AM
Xr, so what you are saying is that we should get rid of most of our pistols bc of the high price of ammo? .44acp, .45 colt, .44 mag, .357 mag, etc, so on and so on because 9mm is cheaper. Oh, I get it now. Well, maybe not but ok.

Carl N. Brown
May 25, 2011, 08:37 AM
OK how many centerfire fire pistols can be shot for 15.95 per 50 commercial rounds? Personally the cheap military surplus was just one reason I acquired a CZ52 (CZ vz 52 for purists).

I shoot a CZ52 with military surplus to participate in military matches and with S&B, FNM or PPU commercial rounds to generate empty reloadable brass to reload for a C96 Mauser. If necessary I will start reloading for the CZ52. Maybe the days of 7.62x25 spam cans and $8 for 70 round boxes are drawing to a close, but there is enough of a user base to keep commercial manufacture supportable.

ADDED: there is no guarantee that the cheap 9mm currently available is not just a fluke. In the past certain ammos have been cheap because of massive military contract overruns in production or cancellations of major contracts. Nothing is guaranteed in this world but uncertainty.

mgmorden
May 25, 2011, 09:15 PM
Try and justify your purchases then and now.

Current situation no more cheap surplus ammo period.

Pretty easy for me to justify it. I own both a CZ-52 AND a Tokarev and I've not shot surplus ammo in either. If it pops up again I *might* buy some, but truth be told, the surplus stuff is corrosive, and I'm a bit lazy on cleaning my handguns. Guess what: despite not having the cheap stuff available I've still been shooting and enjoying both guns.

What people have been telling you this whole thread, and what you seem California-bent on refusing to believe, is that for a lot of people dirty cheap surplus ammo wasn't a major factor - or even a factor at all - in them deciding to buy these guns. Despite the entire catalog of centerfire ammo being more expensive then 9mm Luger people shoot all sorts of different stuff. It's not all about shooting what's cheap.

Shadow 7D
May 26, 2011, 05:45 PM
Um, the new ammo is less than many other calibers, so I don't think it's all that much more expensive, just not nearly as cheap to shoot one the surplus dries up.
Hell it's on par with .40, alot cheaper than .357 Sig.

armarsh
May 28, 2011, 11:11 AM
I've got seven pistols chambered in 7.62x25. I've never fired a single corrosive cartridge in one, and I never will.

XR1200 would like to believe that with surplus drying up prices will go even lower than $200 for a M57. I doubt it, but I hope they do, cuz I'll buy more.

jmace57
May 28, 2011, 01:57 PM
No, what XR1200 wants is to be is a troll.

xr1200
May 28, 2011, 02:12 PM
To what others may thing I'm not being a troll, I have experience with these guns and I know what I am talking about. I predicted the exact situation would happen with the ammo 3 months ago in earlier posts.

So think what you want, you all know the current situation with the ammo and the even the left over surplus ammo is going for quite a lot $196 a case heres the link - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=230897500

So read all the posts, do a little research and make an educated decision for yourself, as a policy its good to never take anyones word as the truth especially on the internet , find it out for yourself.

Fastcast
May 28, 2011, 10:35 PM
I know what I am talking about. I predicted the exact situation would happen with the ammo 3 months ago in earlier posts.


Genius.....You predicted surplus ammo would dry up. :scrutiny:

LOL

xr1200
May 28, 2011, 11:29 PM
As opposed to the ones that banked on it and thought it would be around forever. Well I guess in your own words then I'm a genius.

No use in casting stones or argueing mute points, there is already enough information out there for ppl to make a educated decision on their own, case closed.

Snowdog
May 29, 2011, 12:40 PM
I do strongly suspect the days of $95 for a tin of Polish 7.62x25 fodder have gone the way of the dodo. However, I also believe this will increase demand for the commercial stuff. Of course this will result in a brief spike in prices, but will eventually even out likely back to current prices and quite possibly a bit less.

Shooting and collecting is fun... some seem to resist this viewpoint quite hardily.
If I were only interested in firearms strictly for defense, I would probably only have one or two and what fun would that be?

Both my M57s have proven reasonably accurate, perfectly reliable so far, obviously solid and undeniably fun. I was so thrilled with my first that I purchased a second. The results from the second mirrored the first.
I certainly don't need a stranger to tell me my experiences were the opposite of what they were as that would be just plain silly. However, usually if 9 out 10 "strangers" on the internet say the sky is blue... then there's a fairly good chance the sky really is blue.

9 out of 10 internet strangers say the M57 is a very decent Tokarev specimen. I'm one of those strangers.

Coviekiller5
May 29, 2011, 12:51 PM
I was quite dismayed to see the surplus go away myself, but I think we all knew it was coming. What did surprise me was the fact that it was so sudden, one day there was the 90 dollar a tin surplus, and then the next day it was gone, from pretty much everywhere. A lot of places didn't even bother to list it out of stock, they just took it off there site completely. I wonder why it all went out so fast? Isn't there ussualy a price increase as the supply of it gets lower? Oh well, I won't be getting rid of my Tokarev, I love the little gun, however I did get myself a 9mm barrel so that I can still shoot relatively cheaply, and actually, it works really well. Ofcourse, Sarco shipped me what appears to be a shot out barrel, buts that a different subject... Regardless, even if 7.62x25 ammo were to go away completely, its not very hard nor expensive to convert the thing to 9mm. I see no reason why not to keep my Tokarev, and to xr1200, I have no idea why your getting such horrible results with your particular toks, but mine has always been at the very least, as accurate as I am, atleast in 7.62. Honestly, if you don't like the thing, sell the damn thing, you more than likely wont lose any money.

tinygnat219
May 31, 2011, 01:17 PM
I am not questioning the accuracy or functioning of the cz52 it is a completely different design. We are talking about the yugo M57's Tokarev currently available.

CZ52 is no longer imported or currently on the market, except for used and auction sites.

Also no hate in my post, I am just stating facts and trying to inform and educate the prospective buyer of one of these current tokarev guns, the high road is supposed to be an open forum for discussion.

So far no one who has replied to my posts have even been able to dispute my fiindings on these guns, not one poster has been able to show the groups or accuracy claims of their guns, so the real question is why not !

For those that don't enjoy getting into nitpicking contests on posts like XR1200's above, there's a handy little feature called "Ignore User". It works pretty well and I've used it when there are obvious trolls. XR1200, not calling you a troll here, but it's REALLY REALLY close.

As for the Tokarev purchasers. There are many nifty reasons to purchase this firearm. For now, they're inexpensive at being under 200 bucks. They're simple to work on. They show an interesting history of design and what copying and then modifying someone else's innovation can do. They fire an interesting caliber that for now is still dirt cheap in the surplus arena. Whatever your reason for buying one, get them now as these are surplus and won't last forever. As for parts availability, buy two so that won't be a problem. :)

wally
May 31, 2011, 08:21 PM
I believe the main reason the surplus dried up is bc several different platforms developed conversion kits for their guns so that people could take advantage of the cheap ammo. The dry up was inevitable.

Yup, I've a CNC Machine AR 7.62x39 upper, but before I bought it I laid in a supply of ~15K rounds of the surplus ammo fully knowing it wouldn't last forever!

This will be a lot of good shooting fun for my ~$2500 investment in the upper and the ammo, although a fair amount of it is also being run through my TTC pistol.

Still, I wouldn't mind seeing another boatload or two of the surplus ammo coming in.

In any event, the ammo situation for non-corrosive current production 7.62x25 ammo is not much worse than for say .38Super or 10mm. Sure not as cheap as 9mm but not impossible to find or afford.

If you enjoyed reading about "Where did the 7.62x25 Surplus Ammo Go?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!