What's the latest on 410 self defense ammo?


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KDS
May 16, 2011, 05:55 PM
This is just a curiosity more than anything. I find revolvers like the Judge and the Governor interesting, but I find their popularity even more interesting. From what I've read on the interweb (scary I know), 410 ammunition is very poor for defense. Most of these reviews only covered the existing 410 ammo several years ago. But there are some new self defense rounds developed my Federal, Winchester and maybe others and I am wondering how these perform. Has new ammunition development made the 410 a suitable defense weapon?

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RugerBob
May 16, 2011, 06:01 PM
Anything is probably better then a rock or bat. Pumps are nice as the cylce of the action may scare some away. They don't know the cal. Winter time and dressed in carharts , whats the penetration? Summer time, why not a 22? just my 2 cents....

hirundo82
May 16, 2011, 07:11 PM
Has new ammunition development made the 410 a suitable defense weapon?

No. (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1174519)

While I see the amusement value, I fail to understand why so many people apparently get these kinds of guns for self defense. Especially for the size (the Judge is a really big gun), there are far superior choices for a defensive handgun.

boltgunnerguy
May 16, 2011, 07:23 PM
This is just a curiosity more than anything. I find revolvers like the Judge and the Governor interesting, but I find their popularity even more interesting. From what I've read on the interweb (scary I know), 410 ammunition is very poor for defense. Most of these reviews only covered the existing 410 ammo several years ago. But there are some new self defense rounds developed my Federal, Winchester and maybe others and I am wondering how these perform. Has new ammunition development made the 410 a suitable defense weapon?
lethal or non lethal? and only 410. or 45 as well? they have made 45 cal in so many different options that u wud think the 410. is pistol cartridge compared to 45.

goon
May 16, 2011, 08:07 PM
How is a five pellet 00 buck load from a .410 less dangerous than a 8 pellet load from a 12 gauge? I'd think that in either case, pellets meeting the chest cavity would be very bad for the attacker.
But I agree that the Judge is kind of pointless given all the better choices that are available.

THplanes
May 16, 2011, 08:36 PM
This is just a curiosity more than anything. I find revolvers like the Judge and the Governor interesting, but I find their popularity even more interesting. From what I've read on the interweb (scary I know), 410 ammunition is very poor for defense. Most of these reviews only covered the existing 410 ammo several years ago. But there are some new self defense rounds developed my Federal, Winchester and maybe others and I am wondering how these perform. Has new ammunition development made the 410 a suitable defense weapon?

yes, there is one load that's suitable. The Fed .410 handgun 000 buckshot. Typical pattern at 7 yards is a line 2" - 2.5" long. It also has plenty of penetration.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4550011&postcount=37

The Win PDX1 .410 is a gimick round. BB size shot out of a 12 ga. doesn't have adequate penetration and won't be any better out of a super short .410. The defense disks get somewhere in the 8"-9" penetration in ballistic gell.

.45 colt loads are not nearly as good as people think out of a judge. The Speer GD is only around 625 fps out of a 2" barrel and will not expand. The PDX1 .45 colt is the only load designed for the judge and does expand.

Is the judge a good choice for SD, no.

But if someone insists on using it, at least pick the correct loads.
In .410 the Fed 000 buck is the only good choice. The damage it does to a rabbit at 7 yards is considerably more than a 9mm, .40S&W, or .45acp.

In .45 colt the Win PDX1 and probably the BB heavy standard presure 255 gr soft cast SWCHP are about it.

oneounceload
May 16, 2011, 08:36 PM
exactly, 1200 fps is 1200 fps, and 00 buck is the same

Virginian
May 16, 2011, 08:52 PM
Some people like the Toyota Prius too. There is truly no accounting for taste.

THplanes
May 16, 2011, 08:58 PM
exactly, 1200 fps is 1200 fps, and 00 buck is the same
except the real velocity out of a 3" judge is around 760 fps.

oneounceload
May 16, 2011, 09:12 PM
Then you're not comparing apples to apples - but when you are, the difference between a 410 and a 28 or similar is minimal.....let's compare a 12 gauge from the same barrel

Point is, comparing equal velocity to equal velocity, it isn't a big deal

Guns and more
May 16, 2011, 10:34 PM
Has new ammunition development made the 410 a suitable defense weapon?
This is opinion.
I like the Winchester PDX-1 with the 3 discs and 5 BB's.
Second favorite of mine is the 000 with 5 pellets.
I can't imagine that at 20' or less, anyone would scoff at that.


I've never shot a Taurus Judge, but I have a Bond Snakeslayer. I'm thinking of birdshot in the first barrel, and buckshot in the second. It's a handful to shoot.

RugerMcMarlin
May 17, 2011, 08:25 PM
Like any other firearm application it depends on the situation. If your in Copperhead Hell I think it would be the berries! I also think staring into the front end of a really large revolver, with a bunch of little shotshell star crimps peeking out, would give you pause. I don't want to be shot with one, and I dont think you could really shrug off a solid tag with one either.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
May 17, 2011, 08:37 PM
I have some slugs that would work well and some buckshot (three pellets in a row inside the cartridge) that I am sure would stop someone in their tracks should they get three very large pellets to the face (or any part of the body, for that matter)!

The .410 I have is a fairly-recent H&R single-action break-open which I bought several years ago to shoot vermin that come near my house - mainly skunks at night that tend to want to live under a portion of my barn.

Last summer, one of my neighbors went out onto his porch and was sprayed with one! They get pretty huge here. Last summer, I emptied my .22 Target Pistol into one from my second-floor back window as it made its way up my back lawn then finally I shot it from 12' directly above as it was entering under the barn below, blasting it - apparently hitting it squarely in the top of his back (.410 with 4 shot). Since no lawn got torn up, I know I had hit him and I even followed his tracks up my lawn where I saw traces of blood the next morning!

It went under the building and up to the shallow end where the floor of the barn is nearly on the ground. I thought I would eventually smell him decaying, but have yet to! It's crazy how many shots this thing took and kept on going! Must be the Energizer-Skunk! :uhoh:

mgkdrgn
May 17, 2011, 10:44 PM
This is opinion.
I like the Winchester PDX-1 with the 3 discs and 5 BB's.
Second favorite of mine is the 000 with 5 pellets.
I can't imagine that at 20' or less, anyone would scoff at that.


I've never shot a Taurus Judge, but I have a Bond Snakeslayer. I'm thinking of birdshot in the first barrel, and buckshot in the second. It's a handful to shoot.
Those would be my choices too, pretty much in that order. I was really surprised how tightly those three disks would group out of my 3" barrel Judge ... the halo of BB's was just icing on the cake.

To me, rather the whole point of the Judge is to fire a pattern rather than a single projectile, and hence increase your probability of a hit. At self defense ranges (ie, bad breath range, 95%+ of all SD shootings are at less than 10 feet) it's going to be a -serious- deterrent.

mgkdrgn
May 17, 2011, 10:45 PM
removed - duplicate

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