Load Data for 9mm 125gr LTCN


PDA






capreppy
May 19, 2011, 09:13 AM
I've got some 9mm 125gr LTCN (Lead Truncated Cone Nose) coming in from Mastercast Bullets. Pictures of the specific bullet profile can be found here (http://mastercastbullets.com/bulletphotos.html).

I've been looking for load data, but have been unsuccesful. I've checked my Lee & Hornady manuals as well as Hodgdon's online data. I will be using HP-38/W231.

I need a good starting / max load and OAL. I'll be working up the loads once the bullets come in (next day or two).

If you enjoyed reading about "Load Data for 9mm 125gr LTCN" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
bds
May 19, 2011, 01:23 PM
Lymans #49 has load data for that bullet and powder you mentioned.

I can post the load data when I get home, but I am sure someone else can post it for you.

bds
May 19, 2011, 01:25 PM
OOps, duplicate.

Galil5.56
May 19, 2011, 01:28 PM
Hodgdon has 125 grain lead data, listed as 125 GR. LCN for WW231/HP38.

Start is 3.9 grains; max 4.4 grains. I have loaded similar shaped bullets as the ones you have ordered, and the OAL's are a bit shorter than you may be used to if using RN style bullets. For my particular 9mm pistols, I like to use 4.2 grains of WW231, and an OAL of 1.070" for the Lee 125 grain TC style bullets I cast. Obviously you will have to use trial and error to see what max OAL works best with your particular pistols chamber.

FWIW, the load I mention above makes a nice low extreme spread velocity of 1068 fps from my 5" Beretta M9. Both Mikes of Mastercastbullets.com and Mastercast.net make very good bullets, and have for decades; price is the best out there on lighter weights, with fair, inexpensive shipping especially from mastercastbullets.com.

*** Just looked at the link you provided, and the bullet you are receiving is a rounded nose/tip version of the Lyman 356402. I have the exact same bullet, and seat it around 1.120". Nice bullet, that feeds well and has a longer Ogive than the Lee I also use.

capreppy
May 19, 2011, 02:32 PM
Hodgdon has 125 grain lead data, listed as 125 GR. LCN for WW231/HP38.

Start is 3.9 grains; max 4.4 grains. I have loaded similar shaped bullets as the ones you have ordered, and the OAL's are a bit shorter than you may be used to if using RN style bullets. For my particular 9mm pistols, I like to use 4.2 grains of WW231, and an OAL of 1.070" for the Lee 125 grain TC style bullets I cast. Obviously you will have to use trial and error to see what max OAL works best with your particular pistols chamber.

FWIW, the load I mention above makes a nice low extreme spread velocity of 1068 fps from my 5" Beretta M9. Both Mikes of Mastercastbullets.com and Mastercast.net make very good bullets, and have for decades; price is the best out there on lighter weights, with fair, inexpensive shipping especially from mastercastbullets.com.

*** Just looked at the link you provided, and the bullet you are receiving is a rounded nose/tip version of the Lyman 356402. I have the exact same bullet, and seat it around 1.120". Nice bullet, that feeds well and has a longer Ogive than the Lee I also use.
I've recently started to use Mike @ Mastercastbullets.com for all my lead needs. Pricing is definitely a factor and Mike is pretty easy to deal with. Have spoken with him on a few occassions and he has gone out of his way to make me a very happy customer.

I thought the LCN might be pretty similar to LTCN, but did NOT want to make any assumptions regarding that. I'll work up some loads from 3.9 to 4.4 and give 1.120" a try. I've got to build some dummy rounds first anyway so I'll confirm OAL before I do anything.

capreppy
May 19, 2011, 02:36 PM
Lymans #49 has load data for that bullet and powder you mentioned.

I can post the load data when I get home, but I am sure someone else can post it for you.
I need to pick up a copy of the Lyman's. Seems to be a little more comprehensive than my Hornady or Lee manuals. The Hornady works well for rifle calibers, but is definitely lacking when it comes to pistol. I would have thought that this lead bullet profile would have been in the Lee manual, but the only thing it had close was a LSWC which is a completely different bullet profile.

oldreloader
May 19, 2011, 05:22 PM
I had the same problem with the same type bullet from Friendswood. Here are some excerpt form an email between us.

HP-38 is 3.9 to 4.4 gr with a col of 1.125”

AA#5 is 4.7 to 5.4 gr with a col of 1.125”

Hodgdon HP 38 and Accurate AA#5

What type of powder are you using

I am having difficulty findind specific load info (col) for the 9mm 125 gr FP. Would it be possible to change that bullet to the 9mm 115 gr round nose?
Thank You
James

and you can go to Hogdon's site and use data for the 125 gr LCN bullet

capreppy
May 19, 2011, 07:53 PM
Well I talked to Mike @ Mastercast Bullets. He recommended an OAL of 1.080 which is what I am going with (shoulder is right at mouth of case which looks right). I have worked up some loads (20 of each as my buddy may try them out on his 9mm Luger as well), 3.9, 4.1, & 4.3gr of HP-38/W231. I'll try these out tomorrow or Saturday. Tomorrow's weather pretty looks like it will suck so it will likely be Saturday before I can take these to the range to try them out.

I'll be on the lookout for pressure signs on the 4.3 load, but I have a feeling this load might be the magic number for this bullet profile. I'll post some range results when I get back from the range.

There is little to no recoil on the 115gr factory ammo so I'm not expecting much if any recoil with the 125gr. Hopefully my PoA is the same as my PoI. I currently have an issue with it shooting low with the 115gr FMJ's which seems to be an known issue.

Galil5.56
May 19, 2011, 08:31 PM
Sounds like a plan. Both of my 9mm pistols have very long leades, generous chambers, and in my particular situation find the accuracy best with the shortest amount of jump.

Curious if you have slugged your barrel? Both of my pistols have groove diameters just a bit over .357", and I size my bullets .358". If you should desire a sizing different than the defacto .356", I know Mike will make the change for you no problem.

Been using his 140 grain TC bullet sized .3575" in my 9mm's with very nice results, driven to just over 1050 fps. Very good quality, very good prices, and fair, tailored, not a profit center shipping costs... Not much not to like.

bds
May 19, 2011, 10:04 PM
Just got home. :D


Been using his 140 grain TC bullet sized .3575" (http://mastercastbullets.com/bulletphotos.html) in my 9mm's
Those are .38 bullets, not 9mm ... :rolleyes:


Lyman's #49 shows the following with CCI primer, .356" diameter bullet and 4" universal receiver:

120 gr TCN @ 1.110" OAL
W231 Start 2.9 gr (963 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (1264 fps)
Now, keep in mind that MasterCast's (http://mastercastbullets.com/bulletphotos.html) website shows his bullets to be sized at .3565" diameter instead of the typical .356" for lead bullet.

Of course, I would still chamber/function check a dummy round for the final IDEAL OAL for reliable feeding from the magazine. If I were to shoot the same bullet, I would do my initial work up between 3.5 - 4.0 gr at the same OAL for the heavier 125 gr TCN and larger diameter bullet. Then, if the shot groups trend smaller with no pressure signs, then I would work up to 4.1 - 4.3 gr.

Have fun and keep us posted with a follow-up range report.

Galil5.56
May 19, 2011, 11:30 PM
Those are .38 bullets, not 9mm ...:rolleyes:

Exactly what's your point?... I'll let you fall all over this one... Let's hear it.

capreppy
May 23, 2011, 10:28 AM
Weapon: Taurus PT92 AFS (Taurus pistol made in a Beretta Plant with Beretta Plans & Tooling, but about $150 cheaper and in stainless). Beretta 92's and M9's are known for having barrel diameter variations (.355 to .358). Seems to be a known issue as it is discussed ad nauseum in the Beretta forums and I wanted to make sure that the Taurus if it suffered from this, have the bullet sized appropriately. Mike @ Mastercast Bullets provided me with some soft slugs to slug my barrel. I slugged my Taurus and it was at .3565. Told Mike and ordered 500 of standard sizing to get me started.

The combat sights of the Taurus PT92 AFS (and I believe the same can be said of the Beretta 92FS/A1 and M9, M9A1) are calibrated for 125gr bullets. I shot a box of WWB 115gr FMJ's and the PoI is one inch lower than PoA @ 7 yards. The bullets used this weekend were 125gr LTCN and PoI was exactly PoA. Happy Shooter here.

Bullet Manufacturer: Mastercast Bullets, Carbondale, IL
Bullet: .3565 125gr LTCN (18 BHN)

Primer: CCI #500 (SPP)
Brass: Remington
Charge: 3.9, 4.1, & 4.3gr of HP-38/W231
OAL: 1.080 (suggested by Mike @ Mastercast Bullets. sets bullet shoulder right above case mouth)

I built 20 each @ 3.9, 4.1, & 4.3. I only used 10 at each charge. The other 10 at each charge is for my buddy's weapon if he decides to use my reloads. We'll check his weapon separately although it is exactly the same thing I have except his has adjustable sights.

Shot them up and the 4.3 grouped really well (sorry no pics as I only had my camera phone and it was too damn hot to stay in the sun any longer than I had to). The OAL of 1.080 fed perfectly.

I just ordered another 3k and am a very happy reloader. My costs per completed round (not including brass which is a reusable component) is $0.085 or $8.50/100. I will definitely be keeping these bullets in my stable.

I am still contemplating ordering 1k of the Barry's 124gr HBRN when they become available at Powder Valley for indoor use.

Galil5.56
May 23, 2011, 10:47 AM
Good results there; how was leading with your combo of variables?

Getting 500 high quality 125 grain bullets shipped to your door with insurance for $31.10, can not be beat by a long shot by anyone I have seen on the net lately... Not even close.

capreppy
May 23, 2011, 10:49 AM
NO issues with leading. Sorry, forgot to mention that. Obviously a concern when shooting with lead, but I don't have any leading issues.

For my SA XDm 45ACP, I use Mike's .452 200gr LSWC (14BHN version) and no leading issues there either. I use a charge of 5.0gr HP-38/W231.

Shinbone
May 24, 2011, 02:56 PM
I also have a Taurus PT92 AFS which I took to the range (25 yards) Sunday for the first time. I loaded 50 rounds of 3.9 W-231 using MBC smallball. POI was much lower than POA even though I was using a rest.
No leading problem at all. Brass was ejecting right in the immediate area in front and to the right of me.
I was concerned about accuracy at the time. So I probably need to load closer to 4.2 or 4.3 it looks like.

capreppy
May 24, 2011, 02:59 PM
3.9 still shot a little low and grouped ok. 4.3 definitely improved accuracy (groupings) and PoI.

Shinbone
May 24, 2011, 03:59 PM
Awesome. Can't wait to try it. :D

oldreloader
June 16, 2011, 09:37 AM
I had the same problem with the same type bullet from Friendswood. Here are some excerpt form an email between us.

HP-38 is 3.9 to 4.4 gr with a col of 1.125”

AA#5 is 4.7 to 5.4 gr with a col of 1.125”

Hodgdon HP 38 and Accurate AA#5

What type of powder are you using

I am having difficulty findind specific load info (col) for the 9mm 125 gr FP. Would it be possible to change that bullet to the 9mm 115 gr round nose?
Thank You
James

and you can go to Hogdon's site and use data for the 125 gr LCN bullet
the OAL I got from Friendswood WON'T work in my S&W SW9VE. It's wound up at 1.095. The 1.125 won't even chamber.

capreppy
June 16, 2011, 09:47 AM
the OAL I got from Friendswood WON'T work in my S&W SW9VE. It's wound up at 1.095. The 1.125 won't even chamber.
Every gun is definitely different. I was able to use 1.125 w/Berry's 124gr RN and it was fine in mine, but obviously a different bullet profile.

The 1.080 hasn't given me issues and accuracy is pretty good so if it ain't broke, don't fix it :D

1SOW
June 17, 2011, 11:24 PM
Especially with FT, conical, or HP noses, a dummy case drop-in test for seating on the rim and-NOT on the lands or cone- and to be able to 'drop' out of the chamber when it's turned down.

Then find loads that will work within an oal that will run in your pistol.

rfwobbly has posted a great explaination of how to do this simply and includes good illustrations. Should be able to find it under 'max usable oal'.

Hope this makes sense.

john16443
June 18, 2011, 09:25 PM
capreppy - what is the bullet length for this 125 LTCN from Mastercast? I want to compare it the the new MBC 125 LTCN's that arrived today. I may have to load these shorter like you found you had to as well. It's good to know that when I looked at all my available load data, I selected 4.2 as my initial test load, right in the ballpark with the 4.3 you found successful.

capreppy
June 19, 2011, 02:29 AM
capreppy - what is the bullet length for this 125 LTCN from Mastercast? I want to compare it the the new MBC 125 LTCN's that arrived today. I may have to load these shorter like you found you had to as well. It's good to know that when I looked at all my available load data, I selected 4.2 as my initial test load, right in the ballpark with the 4.3 you found successful.
John,

I think you might be better served by asking Mike at Mastercast bullets. I dan certainly measure them tomorrow, if you want a definitive answer then ask Mike.

john16443
June 20, 2011, 10:42 AM
I'd prefer actual measurement of at least 5 samples from you to get an average. That way I can compare it to the measured samples of the MBC 125 TC's I have on hand. I'll do the same 5 sample measurement tonight and provide these dimensions to you as well.

I've talked to other manufacturers about bullet length before and get a standard answer. It is what the engineering drawing says it is, + or - whaterver their tolerance is.

capreppy
June 20, 2011, 11:37 AM
I am out of the country till Thursday late night. I'll see if I can get you measurements Friday morning before I head to the office.

If you enjoyed reading about "Load Data for 9mm 125gr LTCN" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!