RECOMMENDING HANDGUN: Can we do better than the Glock 19?


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SharpsDressedMan
May 20, 2011, 06:58 PM
I have been asked to recommend a handgun for my cousin, a female 64 years old, and probably never fired a gun. She is healthy, strong, and works as a school teacher, so understands things pretty easy. Considering price, reliability, ease of operation, access to parts, ammo, accessories, etc, I cannot think of a better place to start than the Glock 19. It is a medium frame, yet compact; soft shooting, and simple to understand and operate (given some short lessons in safety and operation of a semi-auto, etc). If she can manage to pull the slide back, the rest is cake. They have easy to see sights, recoil more softly than comparable (.38 Special) revolvers, and already have a following from the female sector. I thought the Glock trigger would be easier to manage than DA only or DA/SA, etc, so that is another reason I picked the Glock. Any other things I missed?

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Overkilll0084
May 20, 2011, 07:07 PM
Intended use? HD/SD? Purse gun? Range?
The Glock 19 is a good all around gun for many. But it might not work well for an older lady if hand/arm strength is an issue (or going to be in a few years). Small and medium steel frame revolvers aren't that bad recoil wise, not in .38 special anyway. Alloy frames on the other hand add a bit of excitement. A 4" medium frame revolver would be a good starting point, IMHO.

wlewisiii
May 20, 2011, 07:19 PM
I agree with the revolver recommendation. This situation would be perfect for an old S&W Model 10 or a DAO modified Model 64.

JoeMal
May 20, 2011, 07:20 PM
The only hesitation I have on a Glock is using the slide, but otherwise it's hard to go wrong with a Glock given any circumstance or need

vaherder
May 20, 2011, 07:21 PM
Walther P99C or PPS in 9mm

bestseller92
May 20, 2011, 07:22 PM
No less an authority than Evan Marshall has said that the Glock 19 may be the best handgun for the novice to select for home defense.

SharpsDressedMan
May 20, 2011, 07:25 PM
She is adequately strong enough to handle most any defensive caliber, but I opted for the 9mm for here for ease of availability, and the softer, less objectionable recoil of a semi auto over a small revolver. It will mostly be a house gun, but she is not opposed to having it with her in the vehicle (possibly in a purse, maybe on person later, after she gets used to the idea). This gun will be the only one unless she gets the fever, and it will have to do for practice and defense at home. I think you get a better performing cartridge with the 9mm over the .38 Special with less perceived recoil. The .38 doesn't start to perform as well until it's a plus P loading, and then it kicks.

kilo729
May 20, 2011, 07:35 PM
Here's an excellent site by a woman about women and firearms, before you get too many cliche remarks about getting a small gun for a small hand.

http://www.corneredcat.com/Men/gunforwoman.aspx

Sebastian the Ibis
May 20, 2011, 07:47 PM
Sharps I agree with you for all the reasons you mentioned.

The only reason I would not recommend a G19 in this situation is if she is going to purse carry it. A glock needs to be carried in good holster so you don't pull a Plaxico.

The Lone Haranguer
May 20, 2011, 07:54 PM
I have a hard time coming up with anything superior. Its closest competition (IMO) is the S&W M&P, with the new SD series up-and-coming. These may have slightly better hand fit and pointing characteristics.

PabloJ
May 20, 2011, 07:55 PM
Here's an excellent site by a woman about women and firearms, before you get too many cliche remarks about getting a small gun for a small hand.

http://www.corneredcat.com/Men/gunforwoman.aspx
I like the "Cornered Cat....." concept. I would try the Caracal pistol just wish I knew where to buy one.:banghead:

glove
May 20, 2011, 08:19 PM
I have been asked to recommend a handgun for my cousin, a female 64 years old, and probably never fired a gun. She is healthy, strong, and works as a school teacher, so understands things pretty easy. Considering price, reliability, ease of operation, access to parts, ammo, accessories, etc, I cannot think of a better place to start than the Glock 19. It is a medium frame, yet compact; soft shooting, and simple to understand and operate (given some short lessons in safety and operation of a semi-auto, etc). If she can manage to pull the slide back, the rest is cake. They have easy to see sights, recoil more softly than comparable (.38 Special) revolvers, and already have a following from the female sector. I thought the Glock trigger would be easier to manage than DA only or DA/SA, etc, so that is another reason I picked the Glock. Any other things I missed?
Yes a Glock 26 should fill the bill.
Dave

wrench
May 20, 2011, 08:26 PM
My 2cents as a 52 year old woman;)
I love my Glock 19. Love it so much I bought a second one.
I've recommended them to other women, and they all love them, too.
Go for it!
Edited to add:
Everyone recommends a revolver for women. By all means have her shoot one, but I hate the darn things, won't have them around the house.
Semi autos are not that complicated.

asahrts
May 20, 2011, 08:27 PM
I'll chime in on the revolver comment. I own several handguns & the g19 is my go-to, HD, favorite, kept near the bed, everything gun (i'm male for the record, 30y/o). I have been promising(aka pushing) my wife, more for my benefit to add more to the collection, that i'd buy her any gun she wanted. She loves the looks of a Kimber I own but the fullsize gun is too heavy for her. She did fine with the .45acp recoil but fatigued quicker with the heavier gun.

I was wanting her to get a .357mag revolver/.38, something like a S&W 686 or ruger sp101 with a 2"-3" bbl so that I could use it. After the last range trip, she really does handle the g19 well & won't go for the revolver. the lightweight & manageable recoil were big factors for her.

Now I have to convince her that we need 2 G19's in the house!

Caliper_RWVA
May 20, 2011, 09:14 PM
I prefer the Ruger SR9, Glock grip just doesn't feel good to me.

If you have the Glock in question, let her shoot it. Then get her to a gun shop with a good selection and have her handle as many as she desires. She needs to pick the gun and there are many, many good models out there.

Better, read this: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=564531

Quentin
May 20, 2011, 09:42 PM
Sharps I like your choice of the G19 and believe the reasons you mentioned are valid. Some women like the idea of a revolver over semiauto but as long as she is comfortable with the Glock it's an outstanding choice.

I do recommend taking her to a gun shop to handle a few guns including the G19. And of course take a firearms safety class and become very familiar with the gun she chooses.

tlmkr38
May 20, 2011, 09:51 PM
My thoughts, If she is going to shoot regularly and learn to clear jams, misfeeds,etc. then by all means a Glock would be a good choice. And I'm not a real big fan of them personally.....

that said, if she is going to learn to shoot somewhat, maybe target practice once or twice a year, then get her a good medium frame 38 revolver. real simple. not gonna jam or misfeed so theres not alot of constant practice to be done. I've seen alot of people buy a semi auto for defense or hope protection and never shoot it enough to know what to do in the event something doesn't work right.....

ceetee
May 20, 2011, 10:22 PM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Glock 19. Nor is there anything really wrong with starting a new shooter out with a 4" .38 revolver. They both point well, recoil isn't too bad (but it's noticeable enough so that the shooter can get used to it), ammo for both is readily available, and neither is likely to break soon.

The best handgun for this particular shooter? Whichever one she likes best...

Strahley
May 20, 2011, 10:41 PM
You didn't miss anything. The Glock 19 is probably the best universal handgun on the market. Short of pocket carry and hunting big animals (which you should have a long gun for anyway), there is no job that the Glock 19 cannot do (that you would need a handgun for)

papa_bear
May 20, 2011, 11:05 PM
The short answer, yes. SR9c

SharpsDressedMan
May 20, 2011, 11:43 PM
Some brought up the pocket carry deficiency of the Glock (possible AD's due to the trigger design), which is a very valid point. Are there particular guns that avoid that? The Kahr comes to mind, with its fairly light DA only. Any other ones? I have not handled the S&W M&P's, or the SR9c. Which model would be the equivalent of the G19? Are they DA (longer pull, like the Kahr), or do they have a trigger pull like a Glock? I was also trying to keep the price in the under $550 category for a new gun. My cousin lives in Evansville, IN, and I am in Ohio, so I won't have a "hands on" training opportunity with her....she'll have to get some locally. Also, any good places to buy in the Evansville area?

metalman8600
May 21, 2011, 12:17 AM
Even though I have a M&P, I'm going to recommend a XD/XDm because of the loaded chamber indicator and the cocked indicator... something that I feel a 64 year old women could really use.

Plus, all these striker fired guns are pretty much the simplest you can get. Bullets go in, rack slide and ready to go.

lono
May 21, 2011, 12:51 AM
My wife does not like to handle any gun without a thumb safety. IMHO Glocks need a thumb safety.

mgmorden
May 21, 2011, 01:37 AM
My wife does not like to handle any gun without a thumb safety. IMHO Glocks need a thumb safety.

Nah. While I can respect your preference, understand that some people hold an opposite preference. The market will cater to both preferences. You're just looking at the wrong product.

If you like Glocks but are really hung up on a thumb safety, look at the Ruger SR9.

memphisjim
May 21, 2011, 02:12 AM
ill back the revolver
it seems she would have no problem with the glock now but we all age and it would probably be better to get her familiar with something she can use longterm

Nushif
May 21, 2011, 02:52 AM
She is adequately strong enough to handle most any defensive caliber, but I opted for the 9mm for here for ease of availability, and the softer, less objectionable recoil of a semi auto over a small revolver

Not to pick on you ... but that's the problem with this. The Glock 19 while not the ideal weapon is probably the best middle ground. Can we do better than a glock 19? Sure! But not without knowing more and being there.

Sgt_R
May 21, 2011, 05:58 AM
My standard recommendation to anyone considering their first handgun purchase: rent a variety of 9mm's from Glock, Springfield XD/XDM, and S&W M&P, then buy the one that you shoot the best and/or are most comfortable carrying (or expand the search if the answer is "none of the above").

The Glock 19 is an excellent choice, but there may be a better option for her in the same pricerange. The only way to know for sure is to get out there and shoot!

R

bds
May 21, 2011, 02:12 PM
When someone asks me to recommend a pistol/firearm to them, I tell them to handle and ACTUALLY SHOOT as many they felt comfortable handling as pistol selection is quite personal and "Holes on target speaks volumes".

It does not matter WHAT OUR OPINIONS are as what will matter is how comfortable they feel in THEIR hands and how fast/accurately they can actually shoot, if they had to.

I helped several female co-workers at work select carry/HD pistols and they were surprised when they range fired various make/modesl (H&Ks, Sigs, Berettas, Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, Taurus, etc.). Some had the notion the more expensive models "should" shoot better but found that not to be true. All of them preferred the semi-autos over the revolvers.

These are what they settled with:
Glock 19 - Many felt this to be a good compromise
Glock 17/22 - Softer recoiling than compact/subcompact for HD
Glock 26/27 - Many will walk/run with these (I outfitted with +1/+2 Pearce grip extensions on all of them)
M&P 9/40 - Softer recoiling than Glock counterparts with ambi slide release for "lefties".
Taurus PT145 - Yup, smallest double-stack compact 45 (10 rnds) also has the smallest grip for smaller hands. Recoil is snappier than 9/40, but you should see some of the females I work with :eek: :D

FWIW, my wife "prefers" G22 and carries G27 with +1 Pearce grip extension. She can shoot the G27 as accurate as the G22.

Al Thompson
May 21, 2011, 02:20 PM
I'd rather have a used G19 than one of the newer ones. Seems that the newer ones are having issues with ejecting and the issues crop up fairly quickly.

The Ruger, XD and M&P would be good to try as well.

Although I started out preaching the revolver manta, I do not feel like that is a good idea any longer. Trying to control a 3 pound revolver with a 12 pound trigger pull is for enthusiasts, not beginners.

jon_in_wv
May 21, 2011, 02:21 PM
+1 for the four inch revolver. The Glock 19 wouldn't be one of my first choices for that criteria by far.

majortoo
May 21, 2011, 02:25 PM
Wow....Have to agree with ceetee! (Obviously, a man who knows women....) Take her to the range, let her try out a few, and she will let you know what she prefers. Hint: When a woman asks your opinion, she only really wants you to validate hers....I wish someone had told me that one in my youth..! (Maybe they did, but I forgot!) There are many good choices out there. Glock is good, but I am also fond of the the nice stainless S&W revolvers available. A Model 60, 66 or 67 would be nice, and you can get the 38's for less than $400...Take her to the range soon and often!

jfrey
May 21, 2011, 03:19 PM
Glocks are good BUT not perfect by any means. A woman should be allowed to pick out her own gun, just like us manly men do. Why not? My wife picked out a Taurus PT111 for herself and likes it. I would have never considered it for myself but I'm not shooting it or carrying it either. For me, a commander 1911 is better than anything for carry, but everyone is different.

Let her try several and see what she likes. Those plastic guns might not be right for her either.

catnphx
May 21, 2011, 03:57 PM
She must be involved in the decision. I have a M&P 9, M&P 9c, Kahr CW9 and a S&W 640-1 .357. Here's what my family of girls like:

- My wife likes the M&P 9c
- My 5' 6" 16 year old daughter likes the M&P 9 full size
- My petite 13 year old daughter likes the Kahr CW9

Point is, it all depends on the shooter. For my oldest, I bought her an Xgrip for the M&P 9c so that she could have a fuller grip and shoot 17 round mags ... that satisfied her but the gun can be carry concealed too by taking the Xgrip off. The ability to change backstaps on the M&P's (or the XD) appeal to many because of different hand sizes.

Bottom line - get her involved in the process, put some guns in her hand, give her options (i.e. M&P 9c but with Xgrip for a full-sized in HD situations), but most important than anything is she must feel good about the gun she buys enough that she shoots it and it doesn't just sit in a bedside drawer.

Good luck!!

Strahley
May 22, 2011, 12:12 AM
Some brought up the pocket carry deficiency of the Glock (possible AD's due to the trigger design), which is a very valid point. Are there particular guns that avoid that?

The only thing that hurts a Glock for pocket carry is the size. Trigger has nothing to do with it. ANY gun can have a ND (there are no accidents!), not just a Glock. This is a moot point. The only gun that can avoid is it the one that sits disassembled in your safe. Any other gun is prone to a ND if the person carrying the gun is being irresponsible

hardluk1
May 22, 2011, 09:38 AM
Hay sharp Any handgun she will carry so long as it has a da feel for a first pull should be a safe pistol and why not take her to a indoor range a rent a couple handguns to try out and let HER deside what she likes. A glock sized pistol might be right but a m&p or xd might be better. she may deside the 38sp is it. But let her deside. Many ranges have female instrutors to help too. I would admit a 9mm glock is a nice pistol but she has to be sure her hands fit on it well and 38 wadcutters or cowboy loads it a 21oz snubby are not heavy recoiling to learn with too. Or the new 32 fed mag reolvers can shoot 32 h&r and 32 sw loads for practice.

RevDerb
May 22, 2011, 09:37 PM
If she is set on a semi-auto, has she looked at the Ruger SR9c? Among the many features is a manual safety which will eliminate the Plexico Burris situation. Made in USA. Comfortable interchangeable grip straps, not a Glock but certainly rugged and reliable.

bcp280z
May 23, 2011, 02:31 AM
Dunno about grip thickness of the 19 but on some Glocks grip thickness is a deterrence, in which case I'd recommend an M&P 9 because you can change thickness.

Though, I haven't messed with any Gen4 Glocks so I'm not sure of their backstraps.

Prion
May 23, 2011, 01:44 PM
A G19 for sure.

KevinB
May 23, 2011, 02:05 PM
Among the many features is a manual safety which will eliminate the Plexico Burris situation.

The factor that caused the Plaxico Burress situation was, believe it or not, Plaxico Burress... Manual safeties, last time I checked, do not stop reckless and negligent behavior, nor do they keep anyone from breaking the four rules.

MrsSmith
May 23, 2011, 02:26 PM
I'm female and strong but have small hands. I CAN shoot anything, but have better control and less fatigue with a gun that fits my hand well. I've had guys push the Walther PK380 on me because of the easy slide (never had problems with any slide and didn't appreciate the inference that I wasn't capable), the XDM because of the changeable backstrap (though even the smallest is still big for my hand), the G19C because of lower recoil (but muzzle flash at night means you only get one shot in the dark), etc. The thing is, it all comes down to what fits ME. For what it's worth, I like the 19 better than any other Glock, but I'm not that thrilled with Glocks to begin with (they're just so utilitarian) and it certainly wouldn't be the first thing I offered her.
I'd call a few ranges in Evansville and have them work with her directly - pick one with a wide selection of rentals and talk with the rangemaster to find someone who will take some time with her since you can't be there.

hardluk1
May 23, 2011, 09:10 PM
I do believe Mrs Smith has got it right. Guys spend the money if it makes you feel good but let the lady's shoot and pick there own handguns maybe with no help from us guys. Now I did buy a kahr cw9 a couple weeks back. My youngest girl, all 5'2 and 110 lbs of her loves the kahr cw9. small enought to give her a ggod grip and recoil is very flat and fairly soft compaired to most any 9mm I have own. My wife picked a glock but if she shoots this I may have ti find a couple more kahrs. glock, Interesting pistols. Just doesn't have a high round count of the bigger pistols

Effigy
May 23, 2011, 11:13 PM
Here's a review of the S&W M&P9c by a female shooter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPKyvdI3z68

She says the Glock grip is too big for her to shoot comfortably, but thinks the M&P grip is a better fit for small hands. Worth considering. I agree you should have her decide what she likes though.

RugerMcMarlin
May 24, 2011, 01:47 AM
I think your pick is the best, store mag full, chamber empty,trigger back.
I would teach her to shoot riding the sear. If shes not a shooter, shes a blank slate as far as having to unlearn trigger work. 1st pick of women in LE.
3 1/2 lb trigger.would also drill til its automatic to work the slide everytime she pick it up.

RP88
May 24, 2011, 03:50 AM
I find the M&P line to be superior as a gun, but as a whole package you get a tad more for the money out of a Glock - especially nowadays.

Everything I dislike about my Glock is not present in the M&P. The mag release is easy to press and discernible from the frame; the gun is fully ambidextrous for the red-headed lefty stepchildren like myself and is more easily depressed; the gun is sleeker, has a lower profile, and the bore axis height is much better; the gun is more forward in design and makes the gun follow up for you; the sights are much better; the trigger is slightly better; the grip is much more natural.

The only thing I dislike about the M&P line is how there is no actual compact size and just a full-sized or subcompact choice for each caliber. They also don't have trigger guard grooves, either, but that is more for personal preference.

That is really the only thing that beats a Glock, in my opinion.

ugaarguy
May 24, 2011, 04:23 AM
I recommended the range trip / instruction / rental guns to my Aunt's sister-in-law when she decided she wanted a gun a few years ago. She's a strong, but very arthritic retiree. My own thoughts were a medium frame revolver for ease of loading / unloading, or a medium frame semi auto for softer recoil if she could reliably cycle the slide.

The after action report I received was: She went to the range, and picked out a S&W AirWeight J frame as her first rental, because she liked the size & feel. After a quick primer from the RO, she promptly dumped her first few cylinders - all shots fired DA - into the X, 10, and 9 rings at 15 yards. This performance prompted joking accusations from the RO that my uncle had brought in a ringer to mess with him :evil: . She tried a few others, but liked the little J frame best. Recoil and trigger pull were no obstacles to her, and she loved the size & simplicity.

After her range visit she got in touch with me. Wanting to keep things simple she decided hammerless (internal hammer) was the way to go for low snag, fewer debris entry points, and and DAO operation. She opted for a 642 because she liked its silver finish better than the black finish of the 442. I located a good used example in her price range locally, and my aunt & uncle accompanied her on the two hour trip over this way to get it. She's personalized it with factory pink rubber boot grips I acquired at her request. It rides in a pink w/ floral print Not Your Daddy's Gun Cases brand soft pistol case when she travels out of state through non-reciprocating locales - it blends well with her similar designer soft sided luggage. Now a GA Weapons Carry License holder she carries it everywhere she's permitted to. Location and holster preference haven't been disclosed to me - some things a lady never tells as she jokes.

I never thought a 642 (or any .38 Spl. AirWeight) would be the favorite of an arthritic woman in her 60s. You just never know until you try the guns yourself.

Prosser
May 24, 2011, 06:14 AM
SDM:

My solutions are the PM9, Kahr, and 360PD. Price range isn't great, but, the 9mm Kahr is accurate, and carries enough rounds for carry, maybe not for home d.

The 360PD is nice for pocket carry, which I find the PM9 too heavy for, and, I'm a 205 guy.

JustinJ
May 24, 2011, 10:49 AM
It's a few hundred more but the best police/civilian 9mm on the market is the HK P30. It's grip is extremely customizable and can be had with a DA/SA or LEM trigger.

SIGLBER
May 24, 2011, 02:27 PM
The G19 is a great gun as long as it fits her hand. Lots of folks have trouble with the thick grip on Glocks. If the G19 is too big for her look at an XD in 9mm. The guns have much thinner grips and is very glock like with a bit of SIG thrown in. I have both BTW. like the Glocks because of the simple design and all the aftermarket pats for them. Like the XD's ergos and trigger better. If you can let her try both.

RugerMcMarlin
May 24, 2011, 03:06 PM
I've been witness to god knows how many recommendations to and purchase by women. 1 reason given was snub barrel harder to grasp and wrench away. But it usually comes down to how heavy it is or " I like the little one, its cute".

When they say this they're usually holding a J frame S&W. 80% of those guns will be fired once, to show how it works. and never again because little cute 38s
KICK. I like them have 4 myself. Why not teach her to use something she might enjoy shooting? I say Glock 19 or MP9 either one.

I would also say the Glock 19 is 3 times better than a j frame.
15 divided by 5....yup 3 times better!:cool:

If you would of told me in 1986, I'd recommend a glock at all let alone Over a jframe I'd told you you were crazy!

Winkman822
May 24, 2011, 03:15 PM
Personally, I'd say an HK P2000 9mm LEM. I find them to be a little easier to shoot across a wider range of shooters thanks to the more neutral grip angle. As far as hard use polymer guns go, HK is as good as it gets.

MisterMike
May 24, 2011, 03:44 PM
I'm a fairly avid fan of Glocks, with three of them (G17, G23, and G26), but the big limiting factor is the grip. I'm used to it and I like my G23 a lot (dimensionally identical to the G19), but you're going to have to see if it really works for your cuz. Putting that puppy in a purse--holstered, of course!--will really add to the weight, so it's worth thoroughly checking out.

Personally--and maybe I'm just a wimp--I've become accustomed to my pocket-size P238 and I think that a subcompact semi in .380 or 9mm may be well-suited to your cousin's needs. I'd let her handle a variety of pistols, to see, first, what seems to fit well, then have her shoot a few of those that feel "right."

Glockeroo
May 24, 2011, 04:31 PM
Can we do better than the Glock 19?
No! Absolutely not! No chance!

MrsSmith
May 25, 2011, 09:57 AM
Both JustinJ and Winkman recommended H&Ks and I wouldn't hesitate to agree. Always loved the way they fire and I've had occasion to shoot one of the sniper rifles as well as two handguns though I don't recall what now - it's been 15 years.
A guy at the gun show last Sunday spent a half hour with me explaining why the P2000 would be a good fit for me and I didn't have the heart to tell him he was preaching to the choir.
Yes, it's a couple hundred more, but it's a reliable gun, the grip fits my hands perfectly (& has changable backstraps), it comes apart easily for cleaning, it has a polymer frame (I spend a lot of time on the water so less pieces to rust is important to me), double action... what's not to like? :)
Of course, I need to get it on the range first, but a first glance, its a fine choice!

DAP90
May 25, 2011, 10:19 AM
and probably never fired a gun.

53 posts and nobodies recommended starting her with a 22lr?

Get her a Buckmark or a Ruger or some other 22lr handgun; her choice. Then, after a couple thousand rounds, start looking at center fire defensive handguns. A Glock 19 is a good handgun but itís not necessarily a good first handgun.

Jonah71
May 25, 2011, 10:22 AM
Glock 26 with mag extension imo.

JustinJ
May 25, 2011, 10:47 AM
It's not necessary to start shooting with a .22 to be proficient with other calibers.

hardluk1
May 25, 2011, 11:33 AM
Untill you get to try different models you never know what you might like better. I still have a glock , a g17 for play and around the house. Sold a g27, to darn thick. Carried for a long time a KT pf-9 . Now after buying an shooting a Kahr the keltec is now gone and have a CW9 and a CM9. Each of us have to find what we like and till you try many different pistols to find what works best for your life stile. You might still change along the way. I have kept two things the same for 26 years ,DA trigger pull and front pocket or straight up to a IWB carry. I have only carried 2 different pistols in 26 of those years. Now the third brand. Don't have to think about learning much new for carry'n.

DAP90
May 25, 2011, 12:14 PM
It's not necessary to start shooting with a .22 to be proficient with other calibers.

Sure, you can become proficient by starting with a G19 (or some other gun) and only shooting that gun. I would argue though that you will become proficient faster starting with a 22 and moving to a larger caliber only when you have the basics of shooting down.

ugaarguy
May 25, 2011, 02:05 PM
DPotvin, some people only have the budget for one gun. 22lr is great to train on, but if the budget is for one gun only, 22lr isn't the way to go. Those funds are better spent on a holster, ammo, and range time for a defensive caliber gun.

joe_security
May 25, 2011, 02:16 PM
As much as I like the Glock 19/26, some folks just like single stack pistols.

SharpsDressedMan
May 25, 2011, 02:17 PM
Let me clarify a couple things. First of all, we are lucky an older, non-shooting woman is now interested in becomeing a gun owner and "one of us", etc, and she really isn't looking to make it a hobby, or invest a lot, hence the desire to find one gun that she can adapt to and learn on. A .22 would be great, if she planned on buying two or more guns, etc. A more compact gun would be a better choice for CCW, but I don't think she'll ever get that far...she says gun fothe house, maybe the vehicle, etc. I'm just trying to make a recommendation that will fit here criteria, and abilities, and I will probably seek out a good range/trainer in the Evansville, IN area (anyone got suggestions there?).

X-Rap
May 25, 2011, 02:34 PM
I would pick the G19 as my only pistol if it was my choice but there are a few issues that might make it impractical to a person of smaller stature (like some women) and a novice.
It may have been already said but cycling the slide on many autos is tough for some, I know this from women and children that I know personally. The safety is also something to overcome especially for those who need or want to see some sort of latch, I would advocate leaving a round chambered while carrying and as the principle HD weapon but I would also keep it in a good holster or lock box when at home. The fact remains that the Glock has but one motion to fire and a fairly light pull compared to DAO so if a kid or unauthorized person would get it the chance of a ND is likley easier.
These are the issues I would discuss with the perspective owner along with the positives which are many.

woodsong
May 25, 2011, 02:45 PM
+1 on the slide racking. If it's in the slightest bit difficult for her to do, then she won't like the gun. (not even thinking about having to load a magazine)

Every woman I've ever introduced to shooting has hated racking slides -- but they've all loved revolvers. Simple, quick, easy, no FTE's or FTF's, easy to reload ... just point and pull the long DA trigger.

My vote would be for a snub K-frame .38 special. I'd avoid the lightweight frames for recoil reasons -- a K-frame would be ideal.

Cards81fan
May 25, 2011, 02:47 PM
I'm a fairly avid fan of Glocks, with three of them (G17, G23, and G26), but the big limiting factor is the grip. I'm used to it and I like my G23 a lot (dimensionally identical to the G19), but you're going to have to see if it really works for your cuz. Putting that puppy in a purse--holstered, of course!--will really add to the weight, so it's worth thoroughly checking out.

Personally--and maybe I'm just a wimp--I've become accustomed to my pocket-size P238 and I think that a subcompact semi in .380 or 9mm may be well-suited to your cousin's needs. I'd let her handle a variety of pistols, to see, first, what seems to fit well, then have her shoot a few of those that feel "right."
I agree with this, and I am not a Glock person. But if I were asked to pick one gun to recommend someone - without any knowledge to their preferences and intended use and physical characteristics (gender, hand and frame size, age, etc.) - I would recommend the 19. Even though I own an XD.

That said, you may be able to do whole lot better just by getting his or her hands on some pistols, and especially letting them shoot them.

X-Rap
May 25, 2011, 02:50 PM
I keep my nails cut down pretty short and have still hooked a few, I'm sure the average woman with a decent manicure might have some snags especially under some serious presure. There will be some who have no problem and I am generalizing and there are techniques that make it easier but there is no good substitute for strength.

DAP90
May 25, 2011, 03:43 PM
Let me clarify a couple things. First of all, we are lucky an older, non-shooting woman is now interested in becomeing a gun owner and "one of us", etc, and she really isn't looking to make it a hobby, or invest a lot, hence the desire to find one gun that she can adapt to and learn on. A .22 would be great, if she planned on buying two or more guns, etc.


Right now sheís only looking at one gun because she doesnít know much, or anything, about guns. Admittedly, Iím a little biased because I love rimfires but I think youíre doing her a disservice by not putting a 22 on the table as one of the options, explaining the pros and cons, and letting her decide.

DPotvin, some people only have the budget for one gun. 22lr is great to train on, but if the budget is for one gun only, 22lr isn't the way to go. Those funds are better spent on a holster, ammo, and range time for a defensive caliber gun.


The money saved on ammo can pay for another gun and still allow for rounds downrange; assuming she shoots with any regularity. If sheís just going to dust it off and shoot it every once on a while, then ammo costs wonít be that high and maybe a 22 wonít help her (ease of training platform aside).

Dave T
May 25, 2011, 05:04 PM
I've never understood the penchant for recommending double action revolvers for women. Mastering DA shooting is a none trivial exercise that requires years of effort and thousands of rounds of ammo. Of course most people aren't very realistic about their training or ability so mediocrity becomes the rule.

My wife won't have a DA revolver and loves her 1911s and her G19. She's a Gunsite graduate with an Expert Certificate. My 70 year old sister hates revolvers and likes her G19...although she is starting to talk about a G30. For ten years I ran my own firearms training business. The Glock 19 was the gun I recommended to both men and women as an overall choice for home defense and CCW. Every women who tried one liked it and often shot it better than the gun their husbands, fathers, boyfriends or brothers bought for them.

Dave

JustinJ
May 25, 2011, 05:54 PM
In my experience women who have trouble pulling a slide can do it but are too tentative.

Ally
May 25, 2011, 08:21 PM
Every woman I've ever introduced to shooting has hated racking slides -- but they've all loved revolvers.

Wow, really? Not a single one liked semi-autos? I must be an oddball out, because my first two guns are 9mm sub-compacts. I love how they both shoot, and have no interest in revolvers. :confused:

bcp280z
May 26, 2011, 01:38 AM
My previous gf's have all prefered my autos, perhaps it's because my only revolver is a Jframe...

Back on topic, ish, Can't you modify the springs to make the slide go back more easily?

RugerMcMarlin
May 26, 2011, 05:43 AM
No to adjusting slide spring lighter.?!

22lr before 19 yeah maybe if I was taking her to raise.The way I took it events or change in circumstance convinced her ,she needs a gun for protection.That pushes time table up. I under stood the OP as can we beat the G19, No and I would buy her a Glock light for it too. This don't fit the hand thing , has she already said it didn't fit?
I'm having a little problem getting that. If she cant reach around it with BOTH hands I don't know what your going to get her. If your sizing it to fit her one handed and it does, get her one for each hand ,this will be fun.

My opinion, as always,but Glock shape. I see it like this the Glock was designed with 100% reliability and function 1st. Comfort 2nd. For 100% reliability I will learn to adapt my hand to fit it. Same for anyone I loved or thought enough of, to teach to shoot.

Guns with adjustable back straps, and who knows what else ,for hang on do dads to make it yours and yours alone. I think has more to do with, marketing surveys on what makes a gun special for me so I can form a lasting bond with it, and so maybe I wont trade it off, because I cant hit with it, but it feels so good in my hand!, syndrome .

I think back to a simpler time when pistol meant Browning High Power or 1911. oh well

ojibweindian
May 26, 2011, 07:35 AM
Take your cousin to a range that rents guns for a session, then let her try out whatever she can get her hands on. Let her decide on the gun.

After she picks one out, make damned sure she understands that proficiency with a gun requires more than just the occasional trip to the range, and that it's not the gun that might save her life, but her ability to use it.

MrsSmith
May 26, 2011, 09:14 AM
To comment on the posts about starting her with a .22: that's a great idea as a range rental to get her used to the sound/feel of firing a gun (if she's never fired anything). But I wouldn't have her put 1000 rounds through it because moving up to a higher caliber is going to be a shock if she gets comfortable with the .22. I'd say no more than a couple hundred rounds then move up to a 9, but warn her that there's a difference. If she's shot before, I'd skip the .22 entirely and go straight to the 9mm in a class situation.

Andrew Wyatt
May 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
The G19 is the smallest gun you can fight with, its reliable, available, and easy to maintain.

the G26 isnt enough smaller to make a difference in concealment, and you can't get a full grip on it.

I don't think there's a situation which calls for a handgun where a G19 won't work just fine, especially if you replace the sights with something better.

.22 conversion units for the G19 are readily available.

to those people who are reccommending revolvers, i have to ask, how many times in a shooting session do you load the gun? do you load the gun more often than you pull the trigger?

RugerMcMarlin
May 26, 2011, 06:16 PM
Important point, one of the biggest hurdles to becoming comfortable with a Glock is learning its unique trigger. She has no experience with shooting. It should be cake to teach her. she doesn't have to unlearn anything.

and I will readily admit Women are easier to teach to shoot. Feel free to quote me.

CMC
May 26, 2011, 06:50 PM
A Smith and Wesson 642 with a laser grip 38 special and a Smith and wesson 43C in 22 lr to get her started.
Both are da only and allow for a higher grip and less felt recoil.

BlackCoffee
May 26, 2011, 08:36 PM
FN FiveSeven.

230therapy
May 26, 2011, 08:48 PM
The Glock 19 is a good choice for those who have no idea what they want in a fighting handgun. It has many good attributes, including being easy on the hands, balance between size and capacity, reliable, and so forth. If the new shooter finds it lacking, it can be easily sold for 80-85% of the purchase price.

The revolver requires more work to acquire proficiency. Proficiency is far more than just safe handling, loading, and target shooting. The basic operation is easier, but that has little to do with actually running the gun in a fight.

mossberg835
May 26, 2011, 10:41 PM
:DI agree with wrench about glocks but the reason most suggest starting with a revolver is because women as a rule don't have a strong enough hand and wrist for the auto to cycle correctly. Not to say all women ,some can do it very well.

mossberg835
May 27, 2011, 11:33 PM
god bless ya

Ala Dan
May 28, 2011, 04:05 AM
West German SIG-SAUER P228 in 9mm

Firemedic56
May 28, 2011, 01:17 PM
Glock 21

Sorry but even for a woman, I will suggest a .45. Its my preference and I wont suggest something I dont like using myself

MrsSmith
May 29, 2011, 11:16 AM
I've spent the past month+ trying to decide on the "perfect" gun for myself. I was trained 20 some-odd years ago on a revolver (S&W .38 chiefs special if I recall correctly), then in my 20s, spent quite a bit of time with a Glock (whatever was standard police issue at the time since I was dating a cop), H&Ks, and various rifles. Then for the past 15 years, have fired very little of anything - apparently girls who are good with guns are scary to some boys.
Over the past 15 years, some things have changed, from the new options out there (never heard of Kahr before!) to even the basics with how to hold the gun (that's been a hard habit to break!).
For the past month I've been a range rental junkie and fired everything available (semi, not revolver) from a .22 up to a Springfield 1911 .45. And while the 1911 was a sweet shot, it was still too much gun for me just getting back into shooting - much as it pains me to say that! I've also spoken with several instructors, other gun nuts, friends, and some of you on this board to get opinions and thoughts on various options. And of course I've been to every manufacturer's website to compare specs.
Now I've made my decision. Although I was leaning toward the H&K P2000 from the beginning and still feel it would be a good "first gun" for any woman, I'm going with the S&W M&P9. With the small backstrap it fits my hands perfectly and my aim is on target and consistent, the slide is easy, it comes apart for cleaning easily, the polymer frame meets my water-based business needs, the recoil is level enough for me to deal with, and (you knew it was coming) I like the way it looks. I'm picking it up later this week and I'm so excited I can hardly think of anything else!
OP I hope your friend has as much luck - and as much fun! - making her selection as I have!

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