[O.T. Powell]

Ok, so I read like 4 books and did my first 40 rounds in 30-06.
168 gr matching with CCI 200 primers and used 57 grains of H4350.. My case lengths are 2.487 and over all length is 3.297. All went smooth until I went to chamber the finished round.. When I FL resized, I didn't bump the shoulder back enough .. Guess I should of chambered it before I reloaded them huh. Well anyway, the rounds do chamber but there is resistance.. Not alot of resistance really. Will it hurt to shoot these rounds like this? Any cons besides the resistance? Or do I have to pull em all and FL size em again?

[Walkalong]

If they will chamber, they are fine to fire. Next time set up your sizer so the brass just will chamber freely.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6270171#post6270171

[Lovesbeer99]

I don't get it. If you full length resized the case there should be no reason why the shoulder is not set back enough. It almost sounds like the bullet it too far out and your rounds exceed full max length.

What kind of dies do you have? How do you set the length?
I use lee dies and I run the shell up the die then back if off and turn the die 1/4 down. Hwo do you do it?

[O.T. Powell]

That's Exactly how I did it too and for some reason it won't chamber right. Well I compared it to a factory round, which chambers freely. And the soulder looks a lil lower on the factory. So I'm guessing that I need to put my die down more, or maybe I didn't push down on the handle hard enough? I was pretty sure I ran it all the way. It deprimed, then I kept pushing on the handle and it pushed it into the die a little more. I have not exceeded max overall length. Lyman manual says 3.295 and Speer says 3.230 and the max is 3.340.. And mine are all at 3.297. So maybe I didn't screw the FL die in enough?

[icanthitabarn]

If it is not a lot of resistance, this is ideal, imho. Future loadings, notwithstanding.

[Seedtick]

I don't get it. If you full length resized the case there should be no reason why the shoulder is not set back enough. It almost sounds like the bullet it too far out and your rounds exceed full max length.

Follow the link Walkalong posted and it will explain how to set your Full Length Resizing die to bump the shoulder back the proper amount. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6270171#post6270171)

So I'm guessing that I need to put my die down more,

Yep, just a ~ couple of thousandths more ought to do ya.

Seedtick

:)

[Walkalong]

I don't get it. If you full length resized the case there should be no reason why the shoulder is not set back enough.
When the sizer die first starts squeezing the body down, the shoulder actually goes forward until it contacts the inner shoulder of the die and begins to be pushed back.

[O.T. Powell]

Ok I got another question for y'all ... What's the difference between a comparator and a headspace gauge? How do they relate?

[dmazur]

Hornady headspace gauge -

http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Kits/

Hornady comparator -

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Comparator-Set-Body-and-14-Bullet-Inserts-1-Each/

Note that the Hornady headspace gauge is designed for measuring cartridge headspace, and is only one pattern. The LE Wilson cartridge headspace gauge looks more like a rifle chamber, with steps on the bottom to determine if the case is within spec.

The Hornady comparator looks very similar, but it uses inserts sized for bullet ogives rather than case shoulder datum lines.

Simple explanation - Cartridge headspace gauges measure length of case from head to shoulder datum line. (For bottleneck cartridges.) Bullet comparators measure length of seated bullet from head to bullet ogive.

For further confusion, there are chamber headspace gauges, which are used to determine the distance from the bolt face to the shoulder datum line in the chamber. This is the actual definition of headspace. What the reloader is generally trying to control is the difference between case length to datum (cartridge headspace) and chamber length to datum (chamber headspace). If he can keep cartridge headspace a few thousandths of an inch shorter than chamber headspace, for bolt-action rifles, he can generally expect increased case life without risking case head separation from over-resizing.

A lot of reloaders have been doing this for years without cartridge headspace gauges, using the rifle's chamber as a gauge (for bolt-action rifles.)

How do they relate? Not related, as far as I can tell. They measure two different things which are of interest to reloaders for different reasons.

[O.T. Powell]

Damn good answer! Thanx! What is the ogive? Have yet to see
a diagram that pinpoints this location. Is that the other line after the datum line?

[Doug b]

So which one of those 4 manuals told you to jump right into the middle of the powder manufacturers load data for your very first reloads?You may be missing the sweet spot for your components and rifle not to mention starting with a bad practice.They call it start loads for a reason.

[dmazur]

Oops. I meant to say bullet comparators are generally used to measure the length of an assembled cartridge from case head to bullet ogive. (Terminology sometimes gets the best of me... :) )

Here's another link that explains bullet ogive -

http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2009/03/26/determining-bullet-seating-depth/

A short definition of ogive is "where the bullet will touch the rifling".

What you are doing is using a point of reference that is more consistent than the bullet tip. The bullet tip is the obvious reference, and is used for COL specifications, but those are really just guidelines.

Due to manufacturing tolerances, the length of bullets varies quite a bit. Perhaps as much as 0.005" or more. This can drive beginning reloaders nuts as they wonder why their seating depth is changing.

Since the bullet seating die generally pushes on the bullet ogive, (to protect the tip), it makes sense to measure at approximately the same point to see if you are seating to the same depth as a previous reloading session.

And, of course, you had to keep records or else you won't have anything to compare the readings against.

The tool is called a comparator... :)

Edit: Another point of confusion is just what is up with all the different COL's? If you study your reloading manuals, you will note there is one specified for each bullet. While COL's may be similar for 168gr bullets made by different manufacturers, there is no guarantee they will be. Some bullets are a VLD design and are basically "pointier" than others, even though the weight is the same, and the suggested COL can be considerably different. Then there is SAAMI COL, which is basically a maximum dimension to guarantee ammunition will fit into standard magazines. Finally, some reloaders are concerned more about optimum distance off the lands and buy (or make) special tools to help determine this distance, which can vary considerably from one rifle to the next. They then use a COL which is neither that suggested in the reloading manual or the one specified by SAAMI.

Generally, pressures increase tremendously if you have the bullet actually forced into the rifling (lands), so it is important to understand this procedure before jumping into it.

Here's a link describing one -

http://www.hornady.com/store/OAL-Gauges-and-Modified-Cases/

I don't have one of these, but I believe the gauge is used with a modified case to push a standard bullet until it touches the rifling. A careful measurement with a comparator will then give you a base number to subtract the desired "distance off", such as 0.010". Then you set up your seating die until you achieve that length to ogive, again measured with the comparator.

Most of this is explained in the reloading manuals better than I am managing to do...

[P-32]

So which one of those 4 manuals told you to jump right into the middle of the powder manufacturers load data for your very first reloads?You may be missing the sweet spot for your components and rifle not to mention starting with a bad practice.They call it start loads for a reason.

A good question indeed.....

Simply stated the Ojive is the curved outside part at the front of the bullet.

[lykoris]

it never ceases to amaze me how patient you all are in responding to a question that has been asked countless times.

Dmazur you are a credit to the THR forum! I think the same goes for rcmodel and walkalong!

[lykoris]

O.T. Powell

the following link may help you understand certain terms which can be confusing when you start reloading

http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2009/03/26/determining-bullet-seating-depth/

hth,
Paul

[O.T. Powell]

Well, ive been readying alot of forums and I've read more than a couple times that 58 gr was the way to go.. I admit that I did kinda skip working my loads up .. Only been learning about reloading for a couple weeks.. I have decided to pull all the bullets and bump the neck back.. I did 20 with 57gr 4350 and 20 with 58 gr 4350.. I have recently learned about the ladder test where you increase your charge in increments to find the best accuracy.. I did not really know that sweet spot varied from rifle to rifle. So that's pretty much why I tried 57 and 58. Now I'm starting to understand how many different variables is in reloading and that consistency is the key. With lee FL die, to size without recapping, I just loosen the nut and tuck the decapping needle right?

[Walkalong]

Yes, just take out the decapping pin.

[Sensai]

With a Lee full length sizing die you can't just take out the decapping pin, it's a solid part of the expanding rod. You can try to back it out as far as needed to not hit the primer and tighten it back down. If you take the rod out you'll size the neck down too small to seat a bullet, and not expand it back out. I hope that this makes sense. I think that the easiest solution is to leave it as is, and deprime/reprime the brass. WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!!

[Doug b]

Welcome to THR Mr. Powell.

[Walkalong]

Whooops. Missed the Lee part. :o

There may very well be enough room to push the whole rod (pin and expander included) up enough to not decap and still size the brass.

Forster sizer dies have the expander plug up high on purpose. :)

[Lovesbeer99]

Lyman manual says 3.295 and Speer says 3.230 and the max is 3.340.. And mine are all at 3.297. So maybe I didn't screw the FL die in enough?

Did I miss something again? If the max COL is 3.295 or even 3.240 and your loads are 3.297 the how is that not exceeding the max COL? Your rounds are too long and you need to adjust your dies.

[Bmac1949]

+1 Doug B's post

[Gigs]

Did I miss something again?

3.340 is not 3.240

[gamestalker]

If they chamber you'll be fine. But in the future you might want to start with the shell holder touching the die and then back it out a little at a time until you've reached the shoulder set back you want, or buy a neck die for $20.
Your OAL sounds OK, but how exactly are you deciding on 3.297"? I doubt you are any where near the lands, but finding them and backing off .005" could be beneficial to accuracy. Do you have any tools for this? If not you can use the old school method of smoking a bullet or seating one in a lightly resized neck of a dummy case.