Fervently anti gun parents - what to do?


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Paincakesx
May 22, 2011, 12:19 AM
Hello all,

So I'm 21 and am currently a university student.

This year, I've lived in the dormitories (for a number of reasons), where of course, guns are not allowed. Therefore, guns have been kept at home.

Currently, I own 2 handguns and wish to bring them with me when I move out to an apartment.

My mom is very anti-gun, and reluctantly went a long with me buying a gun if I go through the required safety training, which I did.

She is generally very against me getting my CHL, but generally accepted that I wanted to and didn't make too big of a fuss.

Now, out of nowhere, she stated that she is very against me taking my gun to my apartment. When I very politely challenged her, asking why she felt that way, she could offer no reasonable or logical answer (typical I guess of most anti-gun people). She just said she didn't like it, though it was stupid, and said things like "if you get arrested don't come to me." (what the hell that even means, I have no idea - but you see what I have to deal with).

My guns have been purchased through MY money, so there is no issue there. The issue is that she is currently footing my college bill and is helping to pay my rent (I am a full time student in a rigorous major - getting a job to support myself at this point is near impossible). In other words, she has me by the spheres, if you know what I mean. I appreciate all this that she is doing for me here, but this one issue really bothers me.

I've tried educating her, she refuses to have anything to do with them and doesn't even like me storing them at home for now. I don't care so much that she doesn't like guns, but is now trying to say that I can't bring them with me, which I find to be wrong considering I am of legal age, have absolutely no criminal record to speak of, and have shown no reason to believe that I would do anything unsafe or illegal with them.

Any advice? I want to keep the peace, but this really difficult right now. I can't just move out and call it good due to my current situation, so I'm in a bit of a pickle here.

PS: To clarify, parents are divorced - dad is generally pro gun, though his opinion has no bearing on my mom's. My mom is currently footing most of my college bills.

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LibShooter
May 22, 2011, 12:34 AM
If Mom is paying your rent, morally, you are her guest. Follow her rules. If she's loaning you money that you then use to pay some of the rent, then it's your call.

Either way, you should try to work it out with your Mom.

hso
May 22, 2011, 12:37 AM
Parents who are afraid of guns are a frequent topic.

If you're dependent upon someone else for your upkeep then you can expect them to exert influence over all aspects of your life unless they respect you as a mature adult which means they respect the upbringing they provided.

You're best recourse is to try to get them to accept that their fear is not your fear.. Explain that you've educated yourself on the firearms issues and the factual information around them. Ask that they explain what their concerns are about and what the basis for them are. Assure them that you'll respect what they have to say if they'll respect your side. Most people have their beliefs these days shaped by TV. The fictional depiction of firearms is sensationalized for exciting entertainment and news programming shows do the same. News programs emphasize the violent misuse of firearms 90% of the time in spite of the fact that government and private studies show firearms prevent violent crime more than they are involved in it by a factor of 100 to 1. The old news adage "If it bleeds, it leads" is well represented on local and national news, but "homeowner/business owner defends self" isn't spectacular enough to sell papers or ad time. Assure them that your intent is to be the responsible adult that they've raised you to be and that you take firearms ownership seriously enough to have put real effort into getting real information on it, but that you're more than willing to get a gun safe that can be bolted down to secure YOUR firearms if it makes them feel better about it.

hershmeister
May 22, 2011, 12:39 AM
You know the answer.

If you want your moms $$ you'll have to deal with her issues. I ser 3 choices for you: Store your guns at your dad's place until you graduate, sell the guns, or tell your mom you want to keep them and live with the consequences

Gord
May 22, 2011, 12:40 AM
This comes up every now and then here.

Like you said, she's got you by the spheres. If your not having a gun in the apartment is an absolute condition of her helping you out with rent, then there's not much to do - prop a baseball bat up next to the bed and buy a couple extra chains for the door.

If she "just doesn't like it" but is still willing to (grudgingly) help you out, then frankly, she needs to get over it - and she eventually will, if you stop bringing it up. If you need to make an argument to her, leave it at a simple "Mom, I appreciate your input, but I feel safer knowing it's there."

You can, of course, always just play by the "need to know" rule (Does she need to know you're bringing a gun into the apartment? No.) but if she already knows you have them and aren't planning to get rid of them, you're a little beyond that now...

Shadow 7D
May 22, 2011, 12:45 AM
If it isn't her house, if it isn't her roof over your head
why are you still following her 'rules'
sorry dude, but, you need to cut the strings, unless they are attached to something you can't part with.

Explain to her that you differ on this point, and either you both can accept it and let it be, or it can be a wedge.

jojo200517
May 22, 2011, 12:46 AM
So she doesn't want them in her house but doesn't want you to take them to the apartment with you? Seems like she can't really have it both ways. Might not be the best advice but since you have your CHL it doesn't seem like a far stretch to just carry it with you when you move and not say anything about taking them to the apartment with you.

mljdeckard
May 22, 2011, 12:54 AM
The above are both correct. If you were free and on your own, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It sucks, but we all had to sever the ties in our own way and time. It's kind of the same as when we talk to guys who are bummed that they have to wait a year or two to get their permits. The time they have to wait sucks, but after they have it, it wasn't such a big deal. Bite the bullet, go to summer semesters, finish early, get your own place. That's life man. :)

jhb
May 22, 2011, 12:54 AM
uh, if your 21 you are well over being an adult. maybe remind mom your not a little kid anymore.

that would be my advice if she wasn't paying your bills, but you said she was...so lock the guns in the safe at her house or dad's or where ever she's okay with, or sell them.

when your out of school and paying your own way you can do what you want. i learned this the hard way, myself. until you are paying your own way, you don't have allot of leverage.

mljdeckard
May 22, 2011, 12:59 AM
I remember when I first moved out, I lived on trash cereals my mom would never buy for two months straight. I had Cap'n Crunch coating on the roof of my mouth the whole time. :D

Paincakesx
May 22, 2011, 01:06 AM
Alright guys, thank for the responses. I understand that with her paying my rent / college bills, that there is little leverage I can get.

Thus, I'm wondering if maybe there is anything I can do to help her "see the light," as they say.

littlmak
May 22, 2011, 01:06 AM
Maybe it's not you she's worried about directly. What about your friends, or friends of friends. If you're on a shoestring budget I can only imagine the apt. you can afford is not in the most secure bld. Or in the most secure neighborhood. Her biggest fear may be someone getting to your gun and using it on you. After all that's been the mantra for the last 30 yrs. in the media. Why wouldn't she think it? Do you have a "safe" to store them in while you're at class/work? Show it to her, This may ease the situation some. A quick word to the wise... Nobody in or around your apt. needs to know that you have firearms in your place. Not even the ocasional weekend guest.

goon
May 22, 2011, 01:08 AM
At my university it's possible to keep any guns you own at the public safety office under the guard of campus police. One of my friends had to do that with his deer rifle at one point. Does your campus have this option?

Gord
May 22, 2011, 01:08 AM
I remember when I first moved out

Cookie Crisp, man. Mom would never buy that stuff because it was $6 a box and "complete junk." Nothing ever tasted so good...

Paincakesx
May 22, 2011, 01:13 AM
Maybe it's not you she's worried about directly. What about your friends, or friends of friends. If you're on a shoestring budget I can only imagine the apt. you can afford is not in the most secure bld. Or in the most secure neighborhood. Her biggest fear may be someone getting to your gun and using it on you. After all that's been the mantra for the last 30 yrs. in the media. Why wouldn't she think it? Do you have a "safe" to store them in while you're at class/work? Show it to her, This may ease the situation some. A quick word to the wise... Nobody in or around your apt. needs to know that you have firearms in your place. Not even the ocasional weekend guest.

This is actually very possible - she has said that she is afraid of somebody breaking into her house and grabbing my guns.

mgregg85
May 22, 2011, 01:15 AM
Well you can either stand your ground and start paying your own way or give in to your mother.

Or a third option you could try, buy a nice gun safe and show her how you plan to safely and securely store your weapons. Maybe that will convince her.

LibShooter
May 22, 2011, 01:17 AM
I'm wondering if maybe there is anything I can do to help her "see the light," as they say.

Probably not. If there were a simple, convincing argument, the NRA wouldn't have to spend millions on lobbying and messaging. My guess is your mother is not going to change her mind, ever.

GRIZ22
May 22, 2011, 01:30 AM
If you want to benefit from your Mother's generosity I'd say you have to play by her rules. When you are providing for yourself you can make your own rules.

mg.mikael
May 22, 2011, 01:30 AM
Sounds like your mother is worried about you, with her wanting you to take a course and what not before getting the handguns. I think the reason for her wanting you not to take the handguns out of her house is that she feels secure/better knowing she has the ability to watch over them. To resolve this, why not get a safe of some sort to lock the guns up in your new apartment, hopefully this will resolve the fears she has of letting the guns out of her house and shows you'll go the extra mile for safety.

Gord
May 22, 2011, 01:54 AM
she has said that she is afraid of somebody breaking into her house and grabbing my guns.

In the "and then use them against you" sense or the "and then they'll go kill a cop with them and I'LL BE/FEEL RESPONSIBLE" sense?

There is a big difference.

Paincakesx
May 22, 2011, 01:56 AM
The latter I believe.

Gord
May 22, 2011, 02:02 AM
I figured. Yeah, she's been indoctrinated and probably isn't going to change her mind or "see the light" anytime soon. Some folks are just like that; religion, abortion, drugs, whatever. It doesn't matter what pro/con arguments you make or how many statistics you throw out - they "know" what they believe and that's that.

Heck, it's on display right here at THR. Take a look at the locked medical-marijuana thread in Legal...

Dr_B
May 22, 2011, 02:20 AM
Whose name will be on the lease? If it's yours, I say take the guns no matter who is paying the rent. It's your place.

No matter where you go, there will always be someone who doesn't like what you're doing even if you're doing nothing wrong.

northark147
May 22, 2011, 02:34 AM
I'm no help but at least she doesn't like guns and that is that. You could be in my shape and here her constantly nagging about how she doesn't understand why I spend so much money on gun stuff, because she doesn't like them and sees no use for them. Well almost constant, she seems to get a lot nicer about it when she wants me to clean, inspect, repair, refurbish the ones she has. Right now I have her very nice Ruger Mark II Stainless target pistol to clean (even though it hasn't been shot since last time I cleaned it, or at least it wasn't till I got it and function checked the hell out of it before breaking it down for cleaning) and another Ruger Mark II that she found stuffed in some deep dark corner of her mothers attic that I am working on cleaning up and parkerizing. Mom's can be funny business I guess.

paramedic70002
May 22, 2011, 02:56 AM
Remind her that one day you will be picking her nursing home.

OK but really, you've got to get to the real root issue. May take patient conversation and some kind digging. The danger is that the more you probe, the deeper she may go.

Try clever questioning? Do you trust me? Did you raise me to be safe and law abiding? Etc.

Ignition Override
May 22, 2011, 03:14 AM
Is there a nearby, level-headed friend who you can really trust to store them, and never allow to be viewed by anybody outside etc?

Maybe by showing her the short Youtube video of Suzanna Gratia-Hupp's superb testimony (about the Luby's massacre in Killeen) some logic might leak inside people through osmosis?

Even John Stossel has an informative video about guns versus crime on the 'Tube.

The Lone Haranguer
May 22, 2011, 08:48 AM
Who is paying the freight? Their money, their rules. Your money, your rules.

rm23
May 22, 2011, 12:27 PM
Keep those guns at home and buy another one for your apartment. If you can't reason with an unreasonable person, you'll just have to fool them.

InkEd
May 22, 2011, 12:34 PM
Tell her that they will be out of her house. Get a gunvault for your apartment.

1894
May 22, 2011, 02:31 PM
Did you have the guns when you lived in her house? Is so, then did you have control over them - meaning you didn't have to ask her for them and she may not know if you took one to the range? If your answers are yes, then I don't see any difference in this new situation.

kurt1305
May 22, 2011, 02:41 PM
Safe deposit box if all else fails.

goon
May 22, 2011, 02:44 PM
I do agree with some that gentle persuasion can often have a positive effect. While I've been in college I've taught a lot of people to use guns. I'm not one of those people who feels the need to keep my gun ownership a huge secret - I've shared that with some of my friends and don't regret it. Of course, the dummy 7.62x51 Nato rounds in a disintegrating link belt that sat on my coffee table was also a clue that I was into firearms. Although most of them were not familiar at all with guns and a few even were slightly anti out of fear, all had a great time shooting. Generally when I take someone shooting their facebook profile pic is changed to them posing with a gun by noon the next day.

But I doubt it would make any difference to your mom. Some people are just set in their opinions and won't consider anything that they don't initially agree with. If she's a loving and supportive mother in all other aspects I still think you should consider yourself fortunate. In the grand scheme of things this is a relatively minor irritation. Since your conversation ended with "well if you get arrested, don't complain to me," that would indicate that all you need to do is take your guns with you and not get arrested (which I doubt you plan on doing). Get a small safe or strong box to lock them up in, be careful about who you share them with, and live your life. I'd bet that after a month of no problems the whole thing will be forgotten about.

Ohio Gun Guy
May 22, 2011, 03:22 PM
I’m getting old, but still remember college....

If you party, have others over, etc. there is a legitimate concern. I kept my guns in College. You'll need to devise a fool proof and drunk you proof way to store them...

But I did feel safer for the 99% rest of the time, and understand why you would want to. Good luck, be safe!

Resist Evil
May 22, 2011, 04:40 PM
Keep your eyes on the prize--your education. You are fortunate that you are afforded the opportunity to do your schooling full time without having to work outside to support yourself.

The imposed standard on you is merely temporary.

AZ Five seveN
May 22, 2011, 05:18 PM
It's a concealed carry permit for a reason... You conceal the weapons!

clutch
May 22, 2011, 06:02 PM
Is the place you are staying in the low rent district? I'm just exploring tactics such as, mom, the place I'm living at isn't all that great, I need to be able to defend myself and frankly, I'd just feel safer with my guns near by.

Do you have a room mate? I don't think you mentioned it. If you do, being able to secure your arms properly is a must.

Clutch

Kendal Black
May 22, 2011, 06:23 PM
I'm 21

That is in itself sufficient answer. But, sometimes diplomacy is important.

Something I have suggested in another context (to a brand new gun owner with kids) is off site storage in one of those storage rental places. Try this on: "Hey Mom, I just had a great idea. I'll store my guns at Rent A Locker when I'm not using them."

It's up to your sense of things to estimate what "when I'm using them" entails, exactly. Carrying it? Check. Home security? Uh, maybe! Range time? Certainly.

A bank safe deposit box (http://www.bankersonline.com/security/gurus_sec060302c.html) might be another option. It depends on the bank.

Keeping peace in the family is a good idea, generally speaking: 'If'n Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.'

hermannr
May 22, 2011, 06:35 PM
Actually, your first problem is to try remove the fear. Easiest way is to get her to understand there is no reason for fear. Be prepared, it may not work, but then again it just might....

Approach #1: talk her into taking a firearms saftey course, given by a worman, for women.... Then take her to a QUIET range with you, to use her new knowledge with your firearms.

Use the approach, ok mom, look, if you will do this for me, and still feel the same way, I will remove the weapons and we will not talk about it again. BTW: get your CPL, for your own safely, mom or no mom, she does not need to sign, or know...you are an adult.

Written by a dad with 5 married daughters and 13 grandchildren, and almost 1 ggrand one (comming up) We have grandchildren as old as you are.

firemanstrickland
May 22, 2011, 09:01 PM
alrite man, check this out, im probly gonna get scourned for sayin this but,.....were young, we get to make the mistakes these older guys have made already. dont sell your guns ( that's just dumb) Think for a minute, do you have a REALLY good friend, brother, cousin, or somebody you can honestly trust? only you know who that person would be........ok, got it? now.... Tell your mother you understand the situation and you will get rid of the guns untill you can foot your own bill, "sell" them to said trusted person.....just get that person to hold on to them for you for a little while, atleast untill you can afford your own cost of living. go to your buddy's and get your one self defense weapon and truly conceal it at your apartment, NOBODY needs to know about it. that way you dont loose your guns, you can defend yourself at home and around town and your mom is happy. i know its kinda horrible when you put it in words but your not gonna change her mind. plain and simple.you gotta do something. When you get financially stable you can "buy" your guns back. see what im sayin?......

Paincakesx
May 22, 2011, 09:04 PM
Alright guys, lots of good responses. Appreciate it.

I will be living in my apartment alone (no roommate), and do not generally party much at all. I do socialize with people and whatnot, but rarely do I go to parties - never really liked them much.

The area I'm living in is not a horrible area in terms of crime, but at night it can definitely get pretty sketchy. Was actually followed by a group of people a few weeks ago who I'm 99% sure had bad intentions. I was lucky to find a group of people before anything bad happened, but that only reinforced my reasoning for wanting to bring my guns.

Of course, despite relaying this to her, she still thinks I'm paranoid.

The good news is I think she can be swayed in some way, which is why I'm asking this. She's generally pretty open to things I do (legal of course), so long as I don't do things irresponsibly. This is one of the few things she's really been difficult to deal with on. I told her I would invest in a gun safe to store my guns in, and I think this calmed her a little, but she's still very anti-gun and sometimes makes little remarks that bother me.

Worst case, the gun range I shoot at here (I rent the guns - they have a great selection for only $5 to rent them) has a walk in safe that they let you store your guns at for a small fee. The whole "I'll keep them there if I don't need them" idea sounds like a good one if all else fails.

I'm not planning on ruining my family or education here, just hoping that I can find a way to sway her without that even being an issue.

PS: Sadly, I don't think getting her to try shooting is going to work - she refuses to have anything to do with them. Convincing her take a gun class would be near impossible, much less having her go shooting with me. For a bit of context, she grew up in Taipei, Taiwan, where private gun ownership is basically non-existent. I can only imagine the anti-gun environment that she was probably exposed to - her sister is the same way.

makarovnik
May 22, 2011, 09:13 PM
If you are paying rent then don't ask, don't tell.

Kendal Black
May 22, 2011, 09:21 PM
So sad, the Chinese Republic had gun control and the Chicoms... Well, you know the story.

Taiwan? People there go to the Philippines to shoot.

Cultural attitudes are impossible to adjust. At any rate, it takes a long time.

owlhoot
May 22, 2011, 09:31 PM
As someone said earlier the conflict with your mother is temporary. What you want to do is make damned sure that you don't marry a woman who shares your mother's point of view.

Ignition Override
May 22, 2011, 10:46 PM
Would it help to mention to her the murder at a cash machine by an Atlanta Airport hotel a few weeks ago, or the huge number of other senseless murders to hide a thug's face, in order to steal $30?

owlhoot: Yes.
You will change women very little, but they all Plan on changing You. They compare notes on how to "mould husbands" into better men.

exavid
May 22, 2011, 11:51 PM
Whomsoever pays calls the plays. Leave it alone until you're out of school and paying your own way. You are a dependent on your mother not a free man.

gathert
May 23, 2011, 12:42 AM
Ask her who she wants protecting her child. I know you are older than that, so put in whatever word you think will get the best response. Ask her if she would want you laying in the street bleeding for a while before the police came or someone helped, or would she rather you be able to defend yourself.

Just an idea, but it may be a bit harsh.

Twiki357
May 23, 2011, 03:05 AM
My Mom was that way until the Watts riots in 1965. After a few trips to the range, I never saw my Model 36 again until she passed in 1983. You may not have that type of opportunity to express the need for self defense, but with all the stuff in the news about campusí these days, a better safe than sorry may be a workable approach. My biggest concern would be the security of the gun when your not there and/or when friends are over. Remember, managers, maintenance people, and who knows who else have access to an apartment when ever they want.

farson135
May 23, 2011, 02:03 PM
My response would be along the lines of, "do you want the guns with me or with you?". Plus depending on your state you can use her ignorance of the law to your advantage, i.e. tell her if they remain in her house the police might arrest the both of them for straw purchasing. Not very high road but IMHO it is her fault for having an unreasonable fear and lacking the knowledge to back up said fear.

I am also a collage student. Luckily my mom is just mildly against me having firearms. Plus I qualify for work study so I pay my own rent. The best advice I can give you is get them away from your mom (maybe compromise and give them to your dad for safe keeping) before she tries to sell them.

mgmorden
May 23, 2011, 02:16 PM
Do you own a car that is not connected to her? If so, keep it locked up in a case in the trunk.

A lot of people are going to scream bloody murder that "Oh noes the bad guys are going to steal it!!?!!!11" but realistically, bad guys can only smash and grab one car in an area before they have to run. They only typically do that when something of value is in plain sight. Don't leave a GPS or a laptop or anything like that plainly visible and you'll be absolutely fine (used to be that you'd detach stereo faceplates, but these days CD players are so common as to be no worth stealing).

Another possible option is to rent a self-storage unit to keep them in. Those are typically only around $50 per month or so. Get one of the good ones that has video surveillance and the like. I'd personally consider this a bit more risky than in the care, but people do store guns there without issue. I have a coworker that has one in another state that he keeps 300+ guns in. He checks in on them every few months.

Otherwise, my advice is to seek out a student loan that will help with financial independence. When I was in college I did work part time for spending money, but I only made around $100 per week. All my living expenses were paid out of student loans. The interest rates on these are typically very low. I'm down to only two years left on mine at this point (10 years repayment time) and I an honestly say it's the best money I ever spent.

Hope you work something out!

thump_rrr
May 23, 2011, 03:07 PM
Realistically speaking if you can convince her great.

If you can't respect her wishes while she is funding your education.
That's the least you can do for her besides getting good grades.

It seems that some people here can't appreciate the financial sacrifice your Mother is making to give you an education.

oldbear
May 23, 2011, 03:16 PM
If Mom is paying your rent, morally, you are her guest. Follow her rules. If she's loaning you money that you then use to pay some of the rent, then it's your call.

Libshooter, summed it up best, see his post. When you are totally self-supporting you can do as you please.

RimfireChris
May 23, 2011, 03:30 PM
Did you tell her about the incident where you were followed? Only you can judge if that would make things better or worse. For right now, your best option seems to be storing them at the gun store. I'd still get a safe, because sometimes you might not have time to make a trip back to where you store them. Just sayin'.

Hunt480
May 23, 2011, 06:18 PM
Just tell mama what she wants to hear like everthing else and keep your guns out of site

Gun Fever
May 23, 2011, 06:34 PM
simple just lie and say you got rid of them, then sneak em into the apt.

"there is nothing wrong with a white lie when you're in the right"

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