Deep conceal 9MM or 380?


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bimmerland
May 22, 2011, 11:47 AM
I presently own a G26 and a P232. Both a very competent guns but do not offer a high level of conceal-ability.

I shoot both the 9MM and 380 with good accuracy and both guns have a felt recoil that my hands can handle. I have average size hands and need to have at least 2 fingers solidy wrapped around the handle.

If I were to look at a deep conceal (pocket) guns that had a similar felt recoil what would you recommend in either a 9MM or 380. I have looked at the KAHR 9MM and 380 but don't know if the recoil is acceptable for range use. I usually fire at least 100 rounds when I go to the range so I don't want a gun to tire me out.

I recently had the experience to shoot a BG380 and a P238. The BG380 was a hard kicker while the P238 was not but I would rather stick with a DA as a pocket gun. I have never shot a LCP but I hear it is a great gun but haven't found any review concerning felt recoil.

What would you recommend with price ceiling around $550 in either a 9MM or a 380.

Thanks in advance for all suggestions

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verdun59
May 22, 2011, 12:10 PM
One of the nice things about the Kahr P380 is that it's a soft shooter, therefore you can get range time and not feel punished. An additional benefit is that it is truly small enough to conceal, unlike a 1911 in your pocket. Good solid soft shooting gun. I don't know the price in different parts of the country but it's a good value.

catnphx
May 22, 2011, 03:31 PM
I've got a Kahr CW9 that has about 500 rounds through it and it's working well. Conceals extremely well too with a IWB holster at about 4:30-5:00. My S&W 640-1 .357 conceals very well too in the same position. I shoot 38 spl +P through it.

Both work and conceal great.

gofastman
May 22, 2011, 03:33 PM
Taurus TCP
easy to conceal, lower price, good shooter for a mouse gun

Lonestar49
May 22, 2011, 03:46 PM
...

Without question, the choices of so many 9mm JHP's with the weight and velocity's that one can choose from in today's small 9mm gun market along with going closed breach action vs dirty, blow-back, action, type guns, it is clear which is the better choice and offers more forgiveness..

OMMV,


Ls

Big_John1961
May 22, 2011, 04:48 PM
Kahr P380 is a good little pistol, but I did have reliability issues with mine at first. It seems okay now, and its flat profile makes it a true pocket gun. Sig P238 is another option, or maybe even the Kahr PM9, which is a really nice and concealable pistol. Then there's the Seecamp LSW380, which is supremely small but a tad pricey.

fbernar
May 22, 2011, 04:49 PM
Keltec PF9!!!!

bimmerland
May 22, 2011, 05:18 PM
@fbernar What's your reason for the Kel-tec over others

Sgt_R
May 22, 2011, 05:30 PM
I have looked at the KAHR 9MM and 380 but don't know if the recoil is acceptable for range use. I usually fire at least 100 rounds when I go to the range so I don't want a gun to tire me out.

The wife and I have both at home. The Kahr P380 is much lighter and slightly smaller than the PM9, and of the two, makes a better pocket gun. Both are good shooters; the first time the we them to the range, we put 200 rounds through each with no discomfort.

R

Effigy
May 22, 2011, 05:31 PM
The PF9 is lighter and thinner than the Kahr PM9, and holds an extra round. It also costs half as much. If you want, you can attach a belt clip to the PF9 and wear it IWB without a holster, giving an extremely thin profile. I don't know if it would be a great option for pocket carry, but if the PF9 isn't then the PM9 definitely isn't.

RightCoastBiased
May 22, 2011, 05:37 PM
I shot an LCP for the first time today, I enjoyed the guns size but there is a good amount of muzzle flip. I personally plan on going for the LC9 to carry IWB, but I wouldn't pocket carry an LC9. An LCP on the other hand would be a great compromise.

bimmerland
May 22, 2011, 05:38 PM
@Sgt_R... I think you are on to something. Since I have a G26 and a G19 I might look at a 380 for better concealment and less felt recoil. Now the only task is to find the best one for the money. At this point of my investigation the KAHR P380 takes the lead.

Thanks

Johannes_Paulsen
May 22, 2011, 05:56 PM
Also check out Kahr MK9. Not as tiny or light as the P380, but very small and shootable -- I think the all-steel frame makes it a lot easier to shoot, too.

gofastman
May 22, 2011, 06:09 PM
I sold my PF9. It SUCKED to shoot, very snappy.

Sgt_R
May 22, 2011, 06:41 PM
Since I have a G26 and a G19 I might look at a 380 for better concealment and less felt recoil. Now the only task is to find the best one for the money. At this point of my investigation the KAHR P380 takes the lead.

I pocket carry the P380 as a BUG to my Glock 27, or occasionally as my only gun if I can't carry the G27 for some reason.

I shopped around and looked at the Ruger, Kel-Tec, and others, but in the end the Kahr just felt the best in my hand. If you're used to shooting Glocks, you'll know exactly what I mean when you pick up a Kahr - it's like the sub-subcompact that Glock never made. ;)

R

bimmerland
May 22, 2011, 10:33 PM
@Sgt_R Thanks that's good news. I am a die hard Glock fan (G19,G26) so the Kahr 380 will be the 380 that Glock couldn't get into the USA.

Jed Carter
May 22, 2011, 10:52 PM
I prefer my SIG P238 to my SIG P232, less muzzle climb / felt recoil and it has night sights.

wrench
May 22, 2011, 11:46 PM
I normally carry a Glock 19 or 26. Couple of years ago I picked up a Ruger LCP for those stinking hot summer days when I can't carry a bigger gun.
So the question for me, is, how small is small enough?
I looked at the Kahr, P238, the little Kimber 9mm, and the little Ruger 9mm.
None of them are as small as the LCP, if I have to go bigger, I'd just as soon carry my Glock.
Recoil on the LCP is snappy, but not unpleasant. Not a range gun, though, usually 50r and I'm on to something else.

bimmerland
May 22, 2011, 11:51 PM
@Jed Carter ...good selection...not very comfortable with SA...like to carry with loaded chamber...feel better with a DA but will look a P238 as an option.

06
May 22, 2011, 11:51 PM
Sig 232 for me with Hogue grips to lessen recoil. Not a tiny thing but still easily concealed.

bimmerland
May 22, 2011, 11:53 PM
@06 - tried to fit my P232 in front pocket but too big... got to go smaller. thanks anyway

J_McLeod
May 23, 2011, 01:03 AM
One more vote for the PF9. It's not fun to shoot, but the most fun to carry a 9mm can be, you hardly realize it's there. If you ever need a pocket gun, it'll likely be at 10 yards or less, and it's hard to miss at that range, so it doesn't matter how much snappy the PF9 is. Plus, you can shoot the same rounds as your G19, it's cheaper to buy and shoot than .380, you get more rounds, and more power.

fbernar
May 23, 2011, 01:13 AM
I sold my PF9. It SUCKED to shoot, very snappy.
I'm new to handguns and I've shot my PF9 just fine (@ about 300 rds already). I applied a handall grip jr and the baby feels so good.

Bimmerland the reason is this (I'm quoting someone elses response for PF9 as it is how I feel as well):

The PF9 is lighter and thinner than the Kahr PM9, and holds an extra round. It also costs half as much. If you want, you can attach a belt clip to the PF9 and wear it IWB without a holster, giving an extremely thin profile. I don't know if it would be a great option for pocket carry, but if the PF9 isn't then the PM9 definitely isn't.

Also, you can add an AA .22LR conversion and plink away!

Ben86
May 23, 2011, 02:07 AM
recently had the experience to shoot a BG380 and a P238. The BG380 was a hard kicker while the P238 was not but I would rather stick with a DA as a pocket gun. I have never shot a LCP but I hear it is a great gun but haven't found any review concerning felt recoil.


If you think the BG380 is a hard kicker stay clear of the LCP. Pocket 380s do offer the greatest level of concealment while not being anemic. I'd go with the Kahr p380. The pm9 is a little too big for pocket carry IMO, if pocket carry is what you are going for.

TexasBill
May 23, 2011, 03:51 AM
@06 - tried to fit my P232 in front pocket but too big... got to go smaller. thanks anyway

Get bigger pockets. :evil:

I can carry my Walther PK380 in the front pocket of my cargo shorts.

toivo
May 23, 2011, 06:33 AM
If you're used to a Glock 26 and a Sig P232, I think you're going to find the "pocket rockets" like the Kel-Tec PF9 or the Ruger LCP to be a real handful to shoot -- very snappy. I have no experience with the Kahr P380 or Sig P238, so I can't comment on those.

My choice for a deep concealment pistol is the Kel-Tec P32. Felt recoil is similar to my Glock 26. Also, its standard magazine holds one more round than the LCP (7 rather than 6), and it locks open after the last round is fired, which is something I really appreciate. I know that a lot of people look down on the .32 round, but I can shoot it without the "ouch" factor, which makes for more and better practice. I use strictly FMJ ammo. I carry it in my right front pants pocket in a DeSantis Nemesis holster, and I carry a ten-round magazine for a reload.

iblong
May 23, 2011, 08:36 AM
I have a Pm9 and its a great little 9 and yes you can put it in your pocket,
That said I feel its a little large for pocket carry and dont use it that way.
My G27 is not really any harder to conceal(IWB) so the pm9 gets little carry carry time.If you want true pocket carry The P3AT,LCP or the Kahr P380 is of
a better size.My P3AT is a great little pistol cheap and allways goes bang.
My P380 is an excellent pistol with noticeable less recoil,verry good accuracy
due to useable sights.Acttually I bought the P380 for the wife and she lets me shoot it.I have no problem hitting my my 6x11 hanging steel at 25 yards.I can do it with the P3AT if I slow way down and squeeeeeze the trigger.

451 Detonics
May 23, 2011, 10:49 AM
I carry my PF-9 in a variety of ways. In the pocket with a pocket holster, in a carry vest, in a concealment t-shirt like the Confidential from Kramer, belly band, in an ankle holster, just all depends how I am dressed. I think it is one of the best deep concealment guns available today due to both size and just as importantly, it's weight.

In an actual shooting incident you most likely will not even register the recoil. These are not target guns for playing at the range. You should be able to shot enough to learn the gun easily then an occasionally refresher session should keep you proficient. Of course the 22 conversion for the PF-9 is fun to shoot and a cheap way to practice with the gun.

Taurus 617 CCW
May 23, 2011, 11:01 AM
I purchased a Bersa Thunder .380 some years back for a "smaller summer gun." It has done well but I really was looking for something that would work better for ultra discreet carry. I ended up with a Ruger LCP. I was surprised that the recoil was rather manageable (no +P's) and felt better shooting than my Thunder .380. It rides in my pocket every day and the Thunder only goes out on special occasions.

GojuBrian
May 23, 2011, 11:06 AM
I pocket carry a Ruger LCP. It's a back up gun and I haven't shot it at the range yet. I'm sure it won't be a whole lot of fun and probably won't see much range time, but I won't be thinking about that if I need it.

It's so small ,thin,and light I hardly notice it at all.

Gigs
May 23, 2011, 11:16 AM
The LCP isn't bad if you get a Pearce Grip magazine base with the small extension. Lets you get two full fingers on there even if you have fat fingers. The hogue rubber sleeve is nice too but not necessary.

From there it's just practice, practice, practice. Unlike other guns, I've found you need to put extra tension using your ring finger while not milking it with your other fingers. If it's beating you up between your thumb and forefinger, you aren't holding it right.

bimmerland
May 23, 2011, 11:33 AM
Good choices... Got a gun show coming up in less than a month. Will be looking at all these 380 options. Thanks

Dr_B
May 23, 2011, 12:37 PM
I picked up an LC9 the other day. Haven't shot it yet, but it carries VERY nicely. Fits in my pocket too. Wouldn't mind trying a PF9 too if I could find one.

DAdams
May 23, 2011, 04:00 PM
Here is my pocket carry sojourn that started in 2005 and ended in 2009.

BERSA BT 380. Too heavy

Kahr PM9 Started out ok, but broke down...so I thought I would try..
S&W 642 I liked the form factor but a bit heavy.
642 broke down and went back to S&W for repair.

Kahr went through the 200 round break in so carried it for awhile found it too heavy though.

Was enamoured with lightweight snubs since I liked the form factor but not the weight and got a:

S&W M&P340 (13.3 ounces).
Now this one I really like. To this day.

Still wanted a really deep cover semi-auto. Researched...researched...
This was before the recent onslaught of small .380s.
Purchased a Seecamp LWS .380. Quest over.

Final Pair:
Revolver M&P 340 with CT Grips
Semi Seecamp LWS .380

Guns and more
May 23, 2011, 05:39 PM
Pocket carry?
1. Seecamp 380. Tiny, superbly made, no fun to shoot.
2. Sig 238. Not quite so tiny, fun to shoot, all the good stuff.
3. LCP. Reliable, inexpensive. Why not?

Rohrbach makes a .380. I don't have one. Expensive.

Tough to beat one of these four.

mongo4567
May 23, 2011, 10:00 PM
I love the keltec p3at for a pocket gun. Small, light, thin, reliable; what else could you ask for. Anything bigger or heavier and I want a belt holster.

jon_in_wv
May 23, 2011, 11:01 PM
You already have a G26 which is pretty small. My EDC is a M&P 9C. I also have a Ruger LCP for deeper concealment. I wasn't sold on the LCP until I fired a couple hundred rounds through it. Now I'm sold on it. It is much more capable than it has any right to be and it disappears in a pocket. The problem with many small 9mms is there isn't enough difference in size from you G26 to make you appreciate it. You'll wish you have the G26. The LCP goes places the G26 just wouldn't.

Here is a vid I posted when I got my LCP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ybql8mDbs

HK Jake
May 23, 2011, 11:53 PM
No question about it: 9mm

Gigs
May 24, 2011, 10:54 AM
Saw an ad for the Sig 290... 9mm not much bigger than an LCP but about twice the weight.

SIGLBER
May 24, 2011, 01:10 PM
As you're finding out it's going to be hard to find a small, light gun in 9mm or .380. When you get to the P3AT sized .380's or the PF9 sized 9mm the light weight and small size mean heavy recoil. some are better than others though. In .380 I've shot my P3AT, a couple of Diamondback .380's, Ruger LCP and couple I don't even remeber the name of. I don't know if it's the ergo's or what but out o this group the Diamondback had less felt recoil than all the others mentioned. Knowing Kahr I'll beat their little .380 is light on recoil. Although I've seen allot of the Diamondbacks having problems.
I've shot all manner of small 9mm's. If you can find one the LC9 seems to be very mild in recoil compared to some of the others. The little Kahr's are great in metal. Had some problems with their polymer guns. I would look at the Kahrs though. They've just come out with their "economy" version of their PM9. Kel Tec's PF9 which I have is a good gun but has heavy recoil. Kahr also makes a great small steel 9mm called the MK9. They are superb litltle guns. The thing is none of these guns are going to be very pleasant to shoot.
They aren't range guns. Like I said going with a Kahr in metal is a pretty safe bet. I have an older .40 caliber version of the MK9 and it is just a great little gun. Very good shooter. Only thing is it's a bit on the heavy side. Good for mild recoil, bad for concealed carry. All things considered I would look at either a Kahr (especially the economy versions) or the Ruger LC9. I've shot both and they will probably be your best bet for your stated goals. Good luck.

hardluk1
May 24, 2011, 01:17 PM
I carried a KT pf-9 for the last couple years. Sold it and bought a Kahr CM9. Great little shooter. Low recoil , good DA trigger at 6 lb but very smooth. Use's any other kahr 8mm mags. Did I say Low recoiling. And it is slightly smaller in size than the pf-9. Weight is just over 1oz heavier at 14oz. Very nice carry pistol .

kokapelli
May 24, 2011, 02:26 PM
I carried a KT pf-9 for the last couple years. Sold it and bought a Kahr CM9. Great little shooter. Low recoil , good DA trigger at 6 lb but very smooth. Use's any other kahr 8mm mags. Did I say Low recoiling. And it is slightly smaller in size than the pf-9. Weight is just over 1oz heavier at 14oz. Very nice carry pistol .
I also had and sold a PF9 after I purchased a PM9. I found the the PM9 so much nicer to shoot I just decided to dump the PF9.

G19G36
May 24, 2011, 05:38 PM
For summertime, I now carry a Kahr CM9 (cousin to Kahr's PM9). Fall/winter/spring - Glock G19. 9mm is the way to go (over .380). Cheaper, more choices, and something you can shoot at the range to get proficient with.

Good luck with your choices.

Jed Carter
May 24, 2011, 08:22 PM
Bimmerland, the safety on the P238 has a very positive engagement, add that to a rather stout SA trigger pull. I feel very confident it will only go bang when you want it to. I usually holster carry either a CZ PCR or a SIG RCS 1911, but the P238 is what I use when I cannot carry a gun.

bsg
May 25, 2011, 01:04 AM
using a Bianchi Belly Band rig could possibly change your mind about carrying your G26 or P232. it is not a fast draw setup by any means, but imo is a well thought out deep concealment rig for those times when more conventional means of carry is not feasible. you can wear it under a loose fitting tee shirt without printing.

Bianchi no longer offers the Belly Band, but it can be found on the secondary market; i've seen them sold via online auctions. there are other companies that currently make belly band type setups. i believe Galco makes a version.

finding an example of a Bianchi Belly Band is worth the effort imo.

being creative with method of carry can broaden your options of carry guns.

RugerMcMarlin
May 25, 2011, 04:52 AM
I would take your $550 dollars, put 350 back in the bank, buy 200 dollars worth of 9mm.And Practice. G-26 is the best of it right now. G26, G27s are known to be extremely accurate and generally more so than the 19 & 43. Has to do with the double spring configuration my 27 was a tack driver literally, I was shooting the thumb tacks on target at 15 yards. You can generally find 9mm anywhere. and always cheaper than 380. Why not shoot a full size service cartridge. If I have to shoot without earprotection, like selfdefense, I'll take 9mm every time.
Just my feeling but I hate the crack of 380! put a Pierce extension on 1 mag , not the other shoot both ways for a while until you decide which you like best.
I ended up taking them back off and shooting with little finger under. I have a feg 380 walther clone w/ alloy frame, that shoots good but only for plinking. It is my opinion that when you give up 9mm velocity you also give up reliable bullet expansion.
At that speed maybe a little faster I would sooner carry a russian makarov, it wont expand either but ball rounds have a blunter profile.

Aiko492
May 26, 2011, 12:08 AM
I also have the Glock 26 (among other 9mm's). As far a the .380's go, I did not have a good experience with the Kahr. Pretty uncomfortable to shoot and many feeding/jamming issues after 400 rounds. I traded for the Sig P238 last week and have only shot 30-40 rounds. Cannot comment yet on reliability but it much more comfortable and by default more accurate in my hands. I think I could have gotten the Kahr to where I needed it but I have a personal policy of not sending guns back for repair. Would rather move on.

eldog
May 27, 2011, 05:24 PM
Recently bought bersa 380 cc (concealed carry). With pocket holster it fits in the khakis and jeans I wear, doesn't seem to show. Compared to a j-frame, I found it easy to shoot and hit with. Also it's 8+1.

Nashvegas
May 28, 2011, 12:08 AM
Small guns are not fun to shoot, there's just no way around it. They are going to snap, it's just the nature of the beast.

I have a LCP and it's great. Fits perfectly in a pocket, and nobody will know you have it! Cheaper than the kahrs and sigs too, which is a nice perk.

kokapelli
May 28, 2011, 10:22 AM
Small guns are not fun to shoot, there's just no way around it. They are going to snap, it's just the nature of the beast.

You haven't shot a P238 have you?

Sgt_R
May 28, 2011, 10:40 AM
Small guns are not fun to shoot, there's just no way around it.

I enjoy shooting my P380 and my wife enjoys shooting her PM9, so much so that we occasionally leave the full-size auto's at home. We did sell the j-frame though. ;)

R

Redmist
May 28, 2011, 10:46 AM
I have owned a Kel-Tec P32 which was great but somewhat of a pain to get ammo for, but it was ultra reliable and light as a feather. I sold it to my brother and bought the LCP. The first 3 mags through the LCP resulted in 2 FTF and 1 FTE, the remaining 100 rounds I fired that day were perfect. Since then I have fired an additional 50 fmjs and 6 Hornady extreme defense loads with no issues. The guns a bit snappy but by no means difficult to shoot. Anyone carrying a pocket pistol not broken in ( min 100 rounds fired ) is crazy. Every single post Iv read people mention some type of failure within the 1st 25 rounds or so. Good luck with your decision!!

bimmerland
May 28, 2011, 01:33 PM
Thank you all for your replies. I am now at a point where felt recoil would be a deciding part of the equation. Also with the new crop of small 9MM maybe it would be better to stay with a 9. I have my G26 but I can't pocket carry comfortably due to short stature. If I stayed with a 380 which one has the less felt recoil or if I went with a 9MM is there anything out there that is smaller and thinner than a G26 that can be carried pocket only. My G26 has a mild recoil so I would be looking for a 9 with the same characteristics.

catnphx
May 28, 2011, 01:50 PM
bimmerland - Take a look at this entire thread at The Firing Line (check the whole thread because he does nice comparisons throughout) and it will show good comparisons with between some smaller guns. It was one of many decision points that helped lead me in my recent purchase of a Kahr CW9.

Small Gun Side-by-Side Comparisons (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439594)

Good luck on your decision. By the way, my personal opinion is to stick to a 9mm.

bimmerland
May 28, 2011, 03:40 PM
@catnphx - thanks for the pointer. I appreciate your advice on staying with 9MM. At this point I don't "need" a gun because the G19 and G26 fit my purpose and my little pocket .22 fills a niche for when I just want to carry for safety reasons. The next gun is a "want" gun with not much thought behind price but behind purpose and that is to step up from my pocket .22 to something larger that I can pocket carry. I am at the point where my shooting ability has gone from hitting the target to putting the second shot in the same hole. The charts gave me a great insight into size but not function so I will continue to peruse the forums for suggestions that will ultimately lead me to the right choice.

Glock G19, G26
Taurus 85, PT22
Ruger MarkII
.32 ?
.380 ?

Glockenspieler
May 28, 2011, 06:22 PM
@Sgt_R Thanks that's good news. I am a die hard Glock fan (G19,G26) so the Kahr 380 will be the 380 that Glock couldn't get into the USA.

You're not really missing anything in the .380 Glock 25 and 28, as they have same exterior dimensions as the Glock 19 and 26, but are chambered for .380. These are for export to countries that prohibit the civilian use of military cartridges like the 9mm luger. I don't think U.S. import restrictions are the issue, just a lack of market for an oversize .380 in the USA.

My new Kahr P380 has been returned to the manufacturer to address reliability issues (mostly frequent premature lockbacks). I know the Ruger LCP, S&W Bodyguard 380, and most, if not all, of the new generation of mini -.380's have also had reliability issues. So perhaps Glock's lack of such a gun should tell us something.

BTW, I usually carry the Glock 22, 23 or 27 as I did during my Law Enforcement career, but being a "die-hard" fan of ANY gun can get you hard-killed!

bimmerland
May 28, 2011, 07:15 PM
@Glockenspieler - I agree with you in not missing anything with a G25 or G28 because I don't need a .380 the size of my G26 or G19. I have read many reports on the G28 and did not find anything regarding reliability issues but it does use a different mechanism (blowback) than the G26. There is no lack of G25's or G28's in the European arena because most countries limit the caliber that non military person can carry and secondly they do not meet minimum BATF requirements for import. If you were with the FBI or CIA you are allowed to have a Glock .380 for your very own. I know that if Glock could make a .380 the size of the crop of pocket guns they would be very successful based on their past experience and thier outstandaing reliability. Just waiting for it to happen. I the meantime will keep looking. Thanks for the feedback.

Cokeman
May 29, 2011, 01:02 AM
My P380 is fun to shoot. I can carry it in the pocket my basketball shorts without them falling down.

snooperman
May 29, 2011, 10:16 AM
for everyone , including me. It is a bit too much in recoil , weight, and trying to get off a quick second shot compared to the 9-11 oz 380 pistols that are available. With the new ammunition that is core bonded in 380, such as Winchester PDX1, Remington Golden Saber, and Speer Gold dot , the wound channel and penetration is very adequate for the up-close conditions you are going to encounter with a CCW. Most people that I know who have tried the "pocket nine" guns like the Kahr PM9 , usually end up carrying them in a hip or IWB holsters, not in the pocket. That is what happened with me. Just a thought, that you may want to consider before you make a decision.

snooperman
May 29, 2011, 10:25 AM
with primary carry in my pocket or IWB with the Kahr P380. Both light weight.

bimmerland
June 4, 2011, 05:23 PM
Just had a chance to handle the Bersa .380 CC. It fits well, conceals in my jeans pocket and may be the .380 I have been looking for. So far the reports I have read give it good marks. Any opinions please. I know it's not a KAHR or a SIG but a half the price it might be worth a look. Also it has a decent weight since it is all metal to minimize felt recoil.

Flyin2low
June 4, 2011, 10:49 PM
Ruger LC9 is the one to beat. Small frame, comfortable grip, accurate......I carry the LC9 and a LCP at the same time

Ben86
June 5, 2011, 12:44 AM
With the new ammunition that is core bonded in 380, such as Winchester PDX1, Remington Golden Saber, and Speer Gold dot , the wound channel and penetration is very adequate for the up-close conditions you are going to encounter with a CCW.

Golden saber isn't bonded, and exhibits jacket core separation most of the time from my experience.

Tomcat47
June 5, 2011, 12:54 AM
I looked at LC9 and other variants today, after looking at all the small, slim 9mm pistols I really did not see any more practicality in them from a snub nose .38

Maybe one more round than the .38....? big whoop! Weight might be the biggest difference, but I bought a Model 85 Ultralite which compares out weight wise and a Model 905 9mm revolver and passed the small 9mm autos aside.

For deep carry I contend that any of the little autos are to no great advantage over a small snubbie revolver.

But dont get me wrong I like the LC9 and Taurus 709 Slim alot but just seen no great advantage over revolver.

Just my observance of the day....my 2 cents as I seen it...and they just felt better in my hand when compared side by side.

RichBMW
June 5, 2011, 06:33 AM
The Ruger LC9 has become my choice for a carry gun. I do have the LCP as well, but I only use that when I am limited to the deep concealment required when I wear dress slacks. Both are pocket pistols and both require PRACTICE. It's easy to shoot a full-size .45 or 9mm the first time out, but small guns are not the same. The sight picture, the kick, the fit-in-the-hand, the trigger pull should not be experienced for the first time in an emergency. And the guns work better after they have used in practice sessions for a few hundred rounds.
I just don't understand the person who buys a small gun and then carries the weapon in his pocket without ever practicing with it.:confused:

bimmerland
June 5, 2011, 05:12 PM
Anybody have any experience with the Bersa 380 CC. Looks like a good deal for the money.

harmon rabb
June 5, 2011, 05:51 PM
The LCP is much, much, much snappier than a Sig 238. It's really not fun to fire, whereas the 238 is pretty comfy.

Supposedly the Kahr P380 and Taurus TCP are soft shooters, but I've never had the opportunity to fire one.

harmon rabb
June 5, 2011, 05:54 PM
I looked at LC9 and other variants today, after looking at all the small, slim 9mm pistols I really did not see any more practicality in them from a snub nose .38

Maybe one more round than the .38....? big whoop! Weight might be the biggest difference, but I bought a Model 85 Ultralite which compares out weight wise and a Model 905 9mm revolver and passed the small 9mm autos aside.

For deep carry I contend that any of the little autos are to no great advantage over a small snubbie revolver.

But dont get me wrong I like the LC9 and Taurus 709 Slim alot but just seen no great advantage over revolver.


The Taurus PT709 and Kel-Tec PF-9 have 7 round mags. That's 8 total rounds including one in the chamber. A snub gives you 5 rounds. I call an extra 3 rounds an advantage. I call being able to change mags quickly and not fumble with speedloaders an advantage.

Revolvers have their own advantages, but to claim that a small auto has nothing over a small revolver is just daft.

kokapelli
June 5, 2011, 06:03 PM
The LCP is much, much, much snappier than a Sig 238. It's really not fun to fire, whereas the 238 is pretty comfy.

Supposedly the Kahr P380 and Taurus TCP are soft shooters, but I've never had the opportunity to fire one.
I have a TCP as well as a P238 and although the TCP is softer shooting than the LCP qnd P3AT it's not nearly as soft shooting as the P238.

IMO the P238 is in a class by it's self.

harmon rabb
June 5, 2011, 06:38 PM
IMO the P238 is in a class by it's self.

Couldn't agree more. Did you see that Colt is resurrecting the Mustang? I'll be picking one of those up too. Should be interesting to shoot them back to back.

bimmerland
June 5, 2011, 06:44 PM
When is the mustang going to be available and how is pricing vs P238.

Effigy
June 5, 2011, 06:55 PM
I wish Sig would make something like the P238 but in 9mm. I like the design but not the chambering, and their other subcompact 9's don't really do anything for me. The P239 is a sweet gun, but a little too big given its capacity IMHO.

Reasoned1
June 5, 2011, 07:09 PM
Bigger is better, but I've found you ask for problems when you try to run big bullets in small guns, so... When I can't adequately conceal my Springfield XD45 Compact (.45 ACP), I carry a Kahr PM9 (9x19mm), and when I can't adequately conceal my Kahr PM9, I carry a Ruger LCP (.380 ACP). To stay under $550 with the 9mm, opt for a Kahr CM9. All the guns above are leaders in concealability and reliability for their type, and they all operate the same basic way: draw, aim, squeeze trigger--BOOM!.

kokapelli
June 5, 2011, 08:46 PM
I wish Sig would make something like the P238 but in 9mm. I like the design but not the chambering, and their other subcompact 9's don't really do anything for me. The P239 is a sweet gun, but a little too big given its capacity IMHO.
I think the reason the P238 shoots so well is 380 is the right round for the gun.
Chambering the P238 in 9mm IMO would be a big mistake.

kokapelli
June 5, 2011, 08:48 PM
Couldn't agree more. Did you see that Colt is resurrecting the Mustang? I'll be picking one of those up too. Should be interesting to shoot them back to back.
I didn't know that. It should be a good seller.

Effigy
June 5, 2011, 09:34 PM
@ kokapelli: I agree to a point. I'd like something similar to the P238 but slightly larger.

kokapelli
June 5, 2011, 10:17 PM
@ kokapelli: I agree to a point. I'd like something similar to the P238 but slightly larger.
For me that would be a CM9 or a PM9. I have a PM9 and really like it but it's a little too big for my pockets. Not a single action but a really good trigger anyway.

Tomcat47
June 5, 2011, 10:19 PM
Definition of DAFT
1a : silly, foolish b : mad, insane :eek:

Maybe as daft as considering two (if revolver is 6 shot) or three more rounds is that critical! (and IF there is a round carried in the pipe!)

Geez! If I had compared it to a double stack firearm I might have deserved that!

But! ......... Please understand I am not an Auto basher! I was merely comparing small to small...I have been carrying them....32,.380,9mm,.40 in small CC style autos.

And also I bet not 1 in 10 people carry such as an LC9 or 709 with one in the pipe!....the populous are not comfortable carrying an auto that way!

Lots do! But LOTS dont!

And in my opinion confusion starts when we treat a self defense attack like we will need supressive fire and 30 round magazines... not likely!

Rmiller31
June 6, 2011, 01:10 AM
She's taken to shooting with me and decided she wants her own gun. She doesn't like the grip of a 1911 and glocks or my gp100.

She has decided on 9mm as her caliber of choice. I took her to a local store today where shE could handle several models I don't have to find something more comfortable for that she liked. She tried a glock, m&p, xd9 and a sr9.

She liked the sr9c the best because it fit her hand and felt natural according to her. I don't have a sr9 so I'm going to rent one at the range so she can shoot it and see if she likes it.

My question is are there any other smaller framed 9mm I could suggest her to try?

Edit: Can a mod please delete this. It was suppose to be a new thread.

Tomcat47
June 6, 2011, 01:14 AM
I just bought a 905 9mm revolver, but I dont know if I would suggest it just yet! Will have to get back to you on that one. There will be two issues possibly..Recoil and Loading....which I have ordered some speed loaders...if they work it will not be such an issue for the reloading.

Then the recoil issue I will know about tomorrow....:)


I did get my wife a Taurus Model 85 Ultralite .38 Special ... Nice little revolver!

There is also a Taurus 709 slim 9mm and Ruger LC9....In Autos! and there are a few others as well....read all post in this thread they are mentioned several times.

Gigs
June 6, 2011, 10:36 AM
You know the revolvers in auto calibers use moon clips right? You don't really need a speed loader.

Tomcat47
June 7, 2011, 12:38 AM
Yeah gigs I actually did, I have a few of the Stellar Clips... I just seen where one place was actually making a nice one for it! would be more durable for pocket carry.

I did shoot a few rounds through my 905 this evening! I Like It! Shooting 115 gr. Speer Lawman and recoil was no worse than the Model 85 Ultralite .38 felt relatively about the same to me?? 147 gr. would prob make a difference.

Great shooter! Done some 20 feet sets on an 8 x 8 target and am very happy with the 905. As I got used to it My 5 shot groups fell in under 4" at aprox. 20feet.

I was happy...still going to indoor range this weekend for some more pratice and evaluation. And some better targets and will get true group measurements

richardKatts
June 7, 2011, 08:53 PM
The Sig P290 was their answer to a CCW in 9mm. Looks real nice but I have yet shot a pocket 9mm that was comfortable to shoot but, being a CCW it's not intended to be shot a lot, it's meant to defend. I do look forward to handling the P290 and Kimbers Solo.

I enjoy my P238 as both a shooter and a CCW.

Tomcat47
June 7, 2011, 09:40 PM
^^ I was looking at both those Sigs myself ^^

I looked at the LC9, Taurus 709 Slim, and S&W Bodyguard as well..

Really like them a lot! But when it came down to the end...The 905 and Model 85 fit very comfortable and price for the 2 firearms was not far from Sig 290!

I walked with two revolvers @$574.00 price tags....(I traded other firearms for the $$$) but that was combined price....The Model 85 was used no box!

The Sig 290 was around $600.00 (tagged $625.00) but I know local dealer and there is play there most of time.

I Like .380 but ammo is just makes no sense any more....popularity pricing I suppose now days....which interested me in the 905 in that 9mm is so cheap to practice with.

Anyway...I am very happy with 905 right now! :)

I faced it There are a lot of GREAT options out there these days! I liked ALL of what I held, some grips a little thin, some a little too fat maybe, but I would carry ALL of them....they are ALL very nice CCW platforms!

FCastle88
June 8, 2011, 11:18 AM
The Sig P290 was their answer to a CCW in 9mm. Looks real nice but I have yet shot a pocket 9mm that was comfortable to shoot but, being a CCW it's not intended to be shot a lot, it's meant to defend. I do look forward to handling the P290 and Kimbers Solo.
You might be waiting for a while, Kimber appears to have stopped production of the Solo to fix some design problems, dealers are being told it might be another 6 months till they get any. The P290 is having a very widespread problem of the hammer not falling the whole way when the trigger is pulled, according to Sig some of the springs need to be upgraded. Again, some people are claiming that they were told Sig is making some design changes to the gun, and they appear to have stopped production as well.

richardKatts
June 8, 2011, 11:53 AM
You might be waiting for a while, Kimber appears to have stopped production of the Solo to fix some design problems, dealers are being told it might be another 6 months till they get any. The P290 is having a very widespread problem of the hammer not falling the whole way when the trigger is pulled, according to Sig some of the springs need to be upgraded. Again, some people are claiming that they were told Sig is making some design changes to the gun, and they appear to have stopped production as well.
Maybe that's why I haven't seen either one yet. It's also another reason to wait until all the bugs are worked out on these latest and greatest pistols.

harmon rabb
June 8, 2011, 03:07 PM
I think the reason the P238 shoots so well is 380 is the right round for the gun.
Chambering the P238 in 9mm IMO would be a big mistake.

This. Chambering the 238 in 9mm would ruin the gun. It would be snappy, uncomfortable, no longer a sweet shooter, and followup shots would be slower.

bimmerland
June 10, 2011, 03:10 PM
Going with the Kahr P380. Hope to see one at next weekends show in Raleigh NC

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb408/bimmerland/kahrp3802.jpg

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