Have a question about a survival weapon. Help please.


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Darebear
May 22, 2011, 03:06 PM
I'm in a bad way. At 24 I have nerve damage in my neck that makes my neck hurt and I get tingling in my arm sometimes most of the pain is in my right shoulder blade. I used to be a healthy guy but a DIY brake job on my Ford truck with a cheap Sams Club tool set has got me to this point. Don't go cheap on tools folks.

Anyway with that out the way, I have found that I can still shoot handguns well, not as aggresive as I used to though. For example I used to punch out both arms very fast, lock elbows then back off just a bit. Now I'm punching out slower. But I'm in constant pain when I shoulder shotguns, not to mention the punishing recoil. I know this sounds silly but there is even a game at a Arcade that requires the player to shoulder a AR to shoot. I felt pain doing that.

Now with all this said, I obviously don't want to spend the money on a shotgun if I can't shoot it... and if I don't want to shoot it, nor a AR. I am comfortable shooting handguns without any pain. So my question is how well will a handgun fair for me in a survival situation or a SHTF situation? And when I say SHTF I don't mean Zombies (even though that would be cool). I mean the same reasons the 2nd amendment exists. Defending myself in a martial law situation, or a situation where laws benefit criminals... more than they do now.

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ByAnyMeans
May 22, 2011, 03:14 PM
Look for a pistol caliber carbine. There are many available and you can even find ones that may take your pistols magazine which makes things a lot simpler. Affix a red dot and you should be good to go.

T.A.Sharps
May 22, 2011, 03:33 PM
If you are talking how well you can fair in a SHTF scenario, you don't have much to worry about.

But a pistol would just offer you less accuracy beyond 25yards.

I've shot 45colt at 200 yards from my Colt, it is possible to do but just really hard. I landed the shot about 13 out of 50 times.

You could become good at it if you made it your thing.

Though, a SHTF scenario, you already know what the perfect weapon is for you.

Something common and available...
Something reliable and proven...
Something that you are experienced with.

Any High Capacity auto like a Springfield XD, HK, or Sig would suit your "wants"

Though, I think a realistic suggestion you would have a lot of fun with would be a .357 revolver that would give you a range of capabilities from target shooting and hunting, ease of hand loading, and use of a range of rounds from .38 to 357mag. Though any one you get make sure it is a proven brand, nothing like a Taurus for example.

bcp280z
May 22, 2011, 03:36 PM
I'd say a good Ruger mk whatever or Buckmark would be good survival as in for food. The survival rifles I've seen were 22/410 combo rifles or that 22 that collapses into it's stock.

For SHTF, whats the highest pistol caliber you can tolerate? I'd get a few, probably Glocks, since those and SHTF make me think of traits like rugged and reliable, And as by any means suggested, get a carbine that'll take your pistol/Glock mags. Perhaps put some recoil buffers on the stock.

Or there's the option, if you're a wheel gunner, a Marlin or Winchester esque carbine chambered in the same as your revolver, 38/357 would be most versatile, ammo choice, SA or DA guns

goon
May 23, 2011, 12:15 AM
So it's actual shouldering of a long gun that causes you pain - like from the movement, not necessarily from the recoil?

I am wondering... if you need to shoot far and have something resembling rifle like range and accuracy if something like a Remington XP-100 or an old Savage Striker in .223 might not be a decent choice. I also think a T/C Encore might work and you could add different calibers if you could handle a little more recoil. The only T/C I've ever shot was a 44 Magnum with a relatively short barrel and it was fierce! But I think a smaller caliber would be more manageable. It's not a rifle, but it's something.
An AR pistol might also work - I don't think .223/5.56 would be too bad in one. It's certainly not punishing in a light rifle. Kel-Tec also makes a 5.56 handgun that takes AR magazines. I think if you equipped yourself with an option like one of these, added a good scope and a bipod, and practiced a lot it might be about as good as you can do short of a rifle. You could even mount a laser for closer range shots from the hip/armpit level if shooting that way was more comfortable for you. Obviously, you'd want to try them out before buying if possible.
With these, I'm thinking strictly in terms of Homeland Defense weapons that I might want if I couldn't have a rifle. The semi-autos would be preferable obviously.

For small game scavenging, any good .22LR revolver or semi-auto would work. Honestly though, I think a good supply of mac and cheese would be better than trying to hunt for any kind of food.
For "normal" defense/CCW, use whatever you like.

Patriotme
May 23, 2011, 05:17 AM
Well a shotgun is definately out since you stated that you absolutely cannot shoot one.
As for the arcade game and the AR....maybe you should try a real AR. This is a light weight low recoiling weapon. The big thing for you (IMO) is that you can hopefully adapt it to your situation. The stock is adjustable and changeable. Was this the case with the arcade toy? You can put different vertical grips on the rail to change your hand/arm postion. Hopefully this might help get around your nerve condition. Is there a well stocked local gun store or a gunshow where you could shoulder different weapons? I'd rent an AR variant or at least try one somewhere. Perhaps you could change the stock or your hand postion on the rail to make it work. Magpul makes interesting foward grips in different versions, there are almost an infinate number of vertical grips on the market. You can go with different rail lengths that would allow you to move your off hand up and down the length of the rail. I mention this because there can be a lot of change in your arm position depending on the foward grip.
The buttstocks on M4's (and clones) are adjustable and you can even put adaptors on them to raise your head up. If using optics then you can change the height of your scope and your head position. I don't know what would work for you since I don't know what kind of nerve damage you have and what body part is affected (neck, shoulder, strong hand, weak arm, etc) but I cannot think of a rifle that would be more adaptable than an AR/M4 variant.
Can you shoot with a bipod? An AR with a bipod might be a slow SHTF weapon but if something is outside of effective pistol range then perhaps you would have time to deploy an bipod equipped AR. If nothing else this would allow you to reach out further than you can with a handgun and the weapon could be rested against a barrier, car hood, window, whatever (since we are talking about SHTF of some kind). You could go prone, sit, kneel or find a position that might work for you.
Other posters have mentioned an AR pistol. I like this idea for you. Have you considered putting a sling on one and pushing out while shooting to give it more support. I doubt that I'm explaining this well but others might have a pic or video.
Someone metioned a Thompson Contender/Encore earlier. This too would allow you to reach out a bit further than the average handgun and would give you a larger caliber than most. You could also put a bipod on the newer (and older?) models which might help you with your situation/injuries. This really isn't my expertise but I'd think about it since you want something with a bit more range than the average handgun and hopefully you can rest the weapon on something while shooting.
I wrote about using a barrier or hard surface as support when shooting and trying a different position. This is my take on your situation. You cannot shoot a longarm while standing due to nerve damage but you want something with more range. Try changing your shooting position. If you find that you can go prone or use bipods, shooting sticks or some form of support then this would offer you the chance to use a long arm at least some of the time. This may be better than not being able to use one at all especially since you are worried about an emergency type situation.
There are some good pics and vids on www.vuurwapenblog.com . Maybe you can look at the shooting positions and see if any of the AR configurations might work for you.
Perhaps a couple of handguns might be the answer. A larger caliber for defense and a smaller caliber for plinking, small game, whatever.
Good luck to you. Let us know what you find that works.

PursesRHolsters
May 23, 2011, 08:11 AM
I would say that in a true defensive situation, it would not matter if the firearm your using is comfortable or not. I would however prefer a .45 auto or a .357 revolver. The pure man stopping power of them means you will not find yourself having to fire at your target to many times.Hope you find something that works for you, and that your condition improves.

svtruth
May 23, 2011, 08:19 AM
My condolences, sorry to read about your shoulder. A levergun in .45 long Colt kicks like .22.
From the other end, you might call up your closest professional sports team, or big time university athletic department and ask them the name of their orthopedic surgeon and neurologist. They tend to have the best and the money involved makes stopping doing their activity a non-choice.
Good luck.

Darebear
May 23, 2011, 08:26 AM
So it's actual shouldering of a long gun that causes you pain - like from the movement, not necessarily from the recoil?

I am wondering... if you need to shoot far and have something resembling rifle like range and accuracy if something like a Remington XP-100 or an old Savage Striker in .223 might not be a decent choice. I also think a T/C Encore might work and you could add different calibers if you could handle a little more recoil. The only T/C I've ever shot was a 44 Magnum with a relatively short barrel and it was fierce! But I think a smaller caliber would be more manageable. It's not a rifle, but it's something.
An AR pistol might also work - I don't think .223/5.56 would be too bad in one. It's certainly not punishing in a light rifle. Kel-Tec also makes a 5.56 handgun that takes AR magazines. I think if you equipped yourself with an option like one of these, added a good scope and a bipod, and practiced a lot it might be about as good as you can do short of a rifle. You could even mount a laser for closer range shots from the hip/armpit level if shooting that way was more comfortable for you. Obviously, you'd want to try them out before buying if possible.
With these, I'm thinking strictly in terms of Homeland Defense weapons that I might want if I couldn't have a rifle. The semi-autos would be preferable obviously.

For small game scavenging, any good .22LR revolver or semi-auto would work. Honestly though, I think a good supply of mac and cheese would be better than trying to hunt for any kind of food.
For "normal" defense/CCW, use whatever you like.
Do you know me? Lol... Mac and Cheese is my favorite. I'm not so much concerned with hunting food, because I am not Joe Hunter. I'd fair better with a fishing rod. I fished alot when I was younger, but I came from a anti-gun family... Well my father had a HD shotgun but he was the only one that was pro-2nd amendment.

I haven't tried shooting prone or kneeling. And yes to those that asked it is actually just shouldering the weapon. When I bring the shotgun up to get a proper cheek weld on it.

I assume that a .223 and 5.56 is the same. What shoots softer? Also I like the idea of carbines chambered in pistol calibers. You guys mentioned a carbine that will accept Glock Mags. I only found one, a prototype from Magpul. Can you guys give me some websites I can go to to find out more?

Also everything everyone said is very helpful. I kind of bums me out that I can't shoot the amazing and almighty 12 gauge but that's what makes gun makers special... there is so much variety.

22-rimfire
May 23, 2011, 08:34 AM
The classic answer is a 22LR rifle. I am leaning more to a rifle in 22WMR these days which gives some added punch. That assumes you have a sufficient supply of ammunition. If not, 22LR. That said, I will assume you can't shoulder a long gun at all.

My suggestions are (1) a good 22 revolver like the S&W Model 17 or 18 or the current 617; (2) a 357 mag revolver which provides some versatility and 38 spl and 357 mag ammo is pretty plentiful (the Ruger GP-100 comes to mind or a S&W product); (3) lastly, if you are talking urban survival, I lean toward more of a combat semi-auto handgun such as a Glock in either 9mm or 40 S&W with extra mags. In an urban situation, you are likely not going to be able to strut down the street carrying an AK or AR without drawing unwanted attention, so a moderately concealable handgun is a good choice. Two would be better; one that you can carry in your pocket and the other in a holster of your choice. My choice is a Glock M23 and S&W M442/642 in this case and that is pretty much where I lean for urban areas. You carry the one or two that is appropriate for your day's activity.

Sgt_R
May 23, 2011, 08:46 AM
Have you ever tried to shoot a long gun with your off-hand? The pain is in your right shoulder - I'm assuming that you're right handed? If you could learn to shoot "lefty," that might help.

Also I like the idea of carbines chambered in pistol calibers. You guys mentioned a carbine that will accept Glock Mags. I only found one, a prototype from Magpul. Can you guys give me some websites I can go to to find out more?

The Kel-Tec Sub2000 can be had in 9mm or .40 cal, and some models will accept Glock mags. Link: http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/sub-2000/

R

Sky
May 23, 2011, 08:49 AM
Fix the nerve damage! Sports doctor and cortisone patches or shots with ultrasound or a good muscle relaxer and anti-inflammatory prescription. You can actually have the nerve die if it continues to cause you pain like that! I am not a doctor but have had a few situations in my life where after all was said and done thank goodness for some Doctor who knew what he was doing and could put me back together again.

Vonderek
May 23, 2011, 08:58 AM
Defending myself in a martial law situation, or a situation where laws benefit criminals... more than they do now.
Since this is your main concern I think a high capacity 9mm will do what you want.

maganoo82
May 23, 2011, 09:01 AM
I think the carbine you are thinking about taking glock mags would be the kriss super. Neat weapon, several variants, 9mm 40s&w and 45acp glock sticks iirc, made in usa (va beach, va), simple and reliable. Downside? Mucho expensivo. For a good shtf weapon if you cant shoulder a stock on strong or weak side, glock m34 with 33 round factory happy sticks or m35 with similar mags. Hope injuries improve man.

Happy shooting.

gbw
May 23, 2011, 09:17 AM
I don't know anything about SHTF, except that if such an event were to actually occur (most unlikely), guns and ammo will be unimportant and the least of our worries.

But I do know a little about necks and spinal cord impingement, which is what your problems indicate.

Get you neck evaluated by a qualified and experienced neurosurgeon specializing in this area, and do it now. Find a way to pay whatever it costs.

The problem will not correct itself probably, and may lead to far more serious, and permanent, problems. Often there are things that will help. (Allow surgury only as a last resort, and then only with multiple opinions.)

husbandofaromanian
May 23, 2011, 10:33 AM
I have a G2 that I a .223 barrel for (ssk with 1-9 twist to shoot m855). With a red-dot it's heavy but not too bad. This setup get's 200 yards easily. .223 is not too expensive to stock up on either.

ForumSurfer
May 23, 2011, 11:02 AM
I say go to the gunstore and figure out which platform hurts less. Maybe you need an ar with a vfg? Maybe a lever gun is more comfortable? Figure out which configuration is comfortable, then worry about caliber.

texas bulldog
May 23, 2011, 11:06 AM
If shouldering a plastic arcade gun with no recoil at all causes you pain, I see only two choices:

1. Find a competent doctor and work on getting the problem resolved, as others have said above. It may not be cheap, pleasant, or easy. But you have a lot of life left in front of you, and being able to properly use your appendage(s) is priceless.

2. Learn to shoulder long guns on your weak side. I'm sure this will feel awkward at first, but your brain can be retrained to do it. Trust me, I know how hard this can be, but I also know it's possible. I played baseball and softball as a righty my whole life until I broke my right humerus, which healed with a slight (fortunately not noticeable) angle and almost immediately thereafter had a right shoulder separation that tore one of the ligaments in my shoulder. Not wanting to stop playing ball, I switched to throwing lefty. It took a while, but I now have as much strength and accuracy as I did right-handed. I'm sure something like this could be possible with shooting as well.

Good luck.

goon
May 23, 2011, 11:11 AM
I don't know anything about SHTF, except that if such an event were to actually occur (most unlikely), guns and ammo will be unimportant and the least of our worries.



I think Mordechai Anielewicz would disagree with that statement.

Back to the OP - the idea of learning to shoot lefty may work. A .223/5.56 are more all intents interchangeable in a military style rifle but when purchasing one, get one with a 5.56 chamber. Recoil on them is quite light. This is also true of .357 and 9mm carbines, but I can't speak for other calibers from experience. If you think you can pull it off, maybe you could check out the local gun store and see if you can find a gun you can handle with your injuries. This would at least give a frame of reference for you to base further questions on.

And while we're at it, I have a friend who shoots handguns competitively. He can make hits at 200 plus yards with a 1911 or a CZ 9mm. I've seen him do it. Granted he shoots A LOT, but this still shows that it's possible. If you were shooting a "rifle" cartridge like a .223 out of a handgun you'd likely have another 100 yards worth of range if not more.

Darebear
May 23, 2011, 01:29 PM
I don't know anything about SHTF, except that if such an event were to actually occur (most unlikely), guns and ammo will be unimportant and the least of our worries.

But I do know a little about necks and spinal cord impingement, which is what your problems indicate.

Get you neck evaluated by a qualified and experienced neurosurgeon specializing in this area, and do it now. Find a way to pay whatever it costs.

The problem will not correct itself probably, and may lead to far more serious, and permanent, problems. Often there are things that will help. (Allow surgury only as a last resort, and then only with multiple opinions.)
In reply to what you and Sky said I am. I was referred to a chiropractor... Ugh. Last time I'll go to a chiropractor. I just recently got a PCP, not because I didn't have insurance just because I traveled alot and from 18 till now I haven't had much need for a doctor. But I def agree with you both and I am hoping my new PCP can help me. A MRI was done on my neck and showed a cyst on my spinal cord... The ortho surgeon that received the MRI said the cyst might not even be the root of the pain, also that it's too small to risk operating on.

I'm not well versed in body physology but I think it's a pinched nerve. Everytime I tell someone the symptoms they say "That sounds like a pinched nerved" and googling my symptoms brings up pinched nerve.

Thanks guys I'll def be seeing doctors and try to get it taken care of.

Darebear
May 23, 2011, 01:32 PM
I think Mordechai Anielewicz would disagree with that statement.

Back to the OP - the idea of learning to shoot lefty may work. A .223/5.56 are more all intents interchangeable in a military style rifle but when purchasing one, get one with a 5.56 chamber. Recoil on them is quite light. This is also true of .357 and 9mm carbines, but I can't speak for other calibers from experience. If you think you can pull it off, maybe you could check out the local gun store and see if you can find a gun you can handle with your injuries. This would at least give a frame of reference for you to base further questions on.

And while we're at it, I have a friend who shoots handguns competitively. He can make hits at 200 plus yards with a 1911 or a CZ 9mm. I've seen him do it. Granted he shoots A LOT, but this still shows that it's possible. If you were shooting a "rifle" cartridge like a .223 out of a handgun you'd likely have another 100 yards worth of range if not more.
You and Texas bulldog are right. I have been switching my grip when firing handguns. It feels weird but I can get it done by following the basics, proper sight picture and trigger manipulation... which means for me STOP JERKING THE DANG TRIGGER! Lol. Well see how good I get with switching hands with my handguns.

Darebear
May 23, 2011, 01:37 PM
Seems like the general answer here is Glocks. Which I do like Glocks... I like them very much. It'll just be a change for me. I own two DA/SA HK's... I'm looking to buy another polymer gun anyway and as much as everyone is saying "M&P's are light years ahead of glocks" I still like Glocks better. Amazing prices, a billion easy accesible aftermarket parts, and simplicity. I'm going to check out the legality of owning firearms like that Kel-Tec or Sig556 pistol. The last thing I want is to break the law.

oldbear
May 23, 2011, 01:47 PM
Perhapts instead of video games, and adapting you shooting stance, try a good sports physical therapist. From personal experience I can attest that it is not a lot of fun:cuss:, but in my case it has allowed me to lead a fairly normal life physically:D.

goon
May 23, 2011, 01:55 PM
Generally speaking they're entirely legal - just don't slap a stock on an AR pistol without jumping through the necessary hoops first.
On the handguns you have - if what you have works for you, I say keep using it. I made the mistake of parting with a SIG P-225 that was I surgically accurate with because I was convinced I needed more magazine capacity. It was a mistake. I should have just bought more magazines. Any gun that you can shoot smiley faces at 25 yards with is worth keeping. I'm an idiot... and I won't make that mistake again!
I'm on my second M&P and it's had little issues that have irritated me. It's 100% mechanicaly reliable so far, but the pin that holds the slide rails on keeps walking out. I may have fixed that one - haven't shot it yet to be sure - but I shouldn't have to fix things on a new gun. It also didn't come with the right grip inserts and the sights were way the hell off out of the box. Small issues, but they require calls to customer service and trips to the gunsmith. The first M&P was unreliable and I quickly parted company with it.
The Glocks I've owned had no such issues. That's my experience.

The Real Wyatt
May 23, 2011, 10:51 PM
Though any one you get make sure it is a proven brand, nothing like a Taurus for example.

Is this not the High Road?
I find that statement quite offensive.

DoubleTapDrew
May 23, 2011, 11:25 PM
A .223/5.56 doesn't recoil much more than a .45acp carbine and is much more effective and accurate out to 100yds+
Olympic arms makes carbines that take glock mags if you like/own glocks. They wouldn't be my first choice for a TEOTWAWKI or SHTF situation but in my experience they aren't the junk some people make them out to be and if you are going to a glock pistol it would be nice to have interchangable mags.

Snowbandit
May 23, 2011, 11:44 PM
Fortunately for you, the most useable defense firearm in any reasonably proposed SHTF scenario is going to be the handgun. The likelihood of large numbers of civilians carrying long guns on a regular basis, thereby making targets of themselves, is pretty much absurd. Survival hunting is a different story but, even then, you're going to want to keep your shots as close as possible. There isn't much sense shooting a deer 100 yards away only to have someone else reach it before you do. A good quality revolver in .357 Magnum should do nicely for most of what you're going to need done.

bcp280z
May 23, 2011, 11:45 PM
There's several carbines that take pistol manufacturers' mags, Berretta storm, Hi point, and I believe Keltec off the top of my head, you could get m4 looking ones as well in 9,40,45. I'll try to come up with some sites for ya.

Good&Fruity
May 23, 2011, 11:52 PM
I think knowing your handgun(s) well enough with both hands, in the dark, against multiple attackers will give you more of an advantage than 3 guys with AR's they don't know how to use and have never sighted in.

goon
May 24, 2011, 12:14 AM
Guys - the OP has problems with rifles because of his range of motion, not only because of recoil.

Is this not the High Road?
I find that statement quite offensive.

No offense, but what's so offensive about that? From what I've seen based on my own experience, I'd advise someone to not buy a Kimber. I don't see that as a problem or a reason for someone to be offended.
We've all got our own tastes and experiences to share. My one really good friend who manages a gun store tells me not to buy a new Taurus because he sends way too many back for warranty repairs. He is especially not a fan of the Judge. Some of them have locked up while firing and been very difficult to open to get them unloaded so they could be packaged to be sent back for repairs. This is a guy who knows a lot about handguns and even worked for Wilson Combat at one point. If he advises I avoid a certain brand, I don't take offense. I pay just a little more attention.

danprkr
May 24, 2011, 08:43 AM
Better a good solid handgun than anything you can't reliably shoot, or a sharp stick.

Darebear
May 24, 2011, 08:47 AM
There's several carbines that take pistol manufacturers' mags, Berretta storm, Hi point, and I believe Keltec off the top of my head, you could get m4 looking ones as well in 9,40,45. I'll try to come up with some sites for ya.
I REALLY like the look of the CX4... Keltec sub2000 has a cool looking model out with a AR rail. Does anyone have experience with either? A search of Keltec sub2000 brings up mixed reviews, some saying that it's junk and broke easily others saying it's a cool little tool.

Darebear
May 24, 2011, 09:08 AM
Fortunately for you, the most useable defense firearm in any reasonably proposed SHTF scenario is going to be the handgun. The likelihood of large numbers of civilians carrying long guns on a regular basis, thereby making targets of themselves, is pretty much absurd. Survival hunting is a different story but, even then, you're going to want to keep your shots as close as possible. There isn't much sense shooting a deer 100 yards away only to have someone else reach it before you do. A good quality revolver in .357 Magnum should do nicely for most of what you're going to need done.
Sensible words spoken here. Especially about hunting a deer at 100 yards just to have someone else go pick it up. I live about 30 minutes away from my city's downtown area. Getting to a populated urban setting would not be a problem for me, so the whole hunting bit is out of my mind. Like I said, I aint Joe Hunter. I never owned a wheel gun, it would be a whole new experience for me but def a experience I would welcome. A good quality revolver? Who makes those?

Also to further clearify, Goon is right. I can handle recoil (now a 12 gauge is just gonna punish ya no matter who you are)... I am just experiencing pain when shouldering and getting a proper cheek weld on the firearm. With that said I do fear, that after shooting a heavier long gun that aggervates my injury, I will then become very sensitive to recoil.

And I APPRECIATE you guys being mature about my reference of "when the SHTF". As far as food and meds I packed myself a "3 day pack" full of meds, first aid, energy bars, water and 3 extra handgun mags. I am more concerned with Hurricane Katrina situations, the worst thing about Katrina wasn't even the Hurricane it was the raping, looting and murdering after, or terrorists attacks that devastates a area that I live in. Other situations that disrupt the law and order and allow BG's to thrive while I and other innocents wait for help. I'm not concerned with The Rapture, or Zombies... I'm scared of spiders so if those two situations ever occured I'd prob be the first one dead. Lol.

Vonderek
May 24, 2011, 09:31 AM
For real life advice about guns & living in a SHTF environment check out FerFal's blog.

Patriotme
May 24, 2011, 10:28 AM
Guys - the OP has problems with rifles because of his range of motion, not only because of recoil.



No offense, but what's so offensive about that? From what I've seen based on my own experience, I'd advise someone to not buy a Kimber. I don't see that as a problem or a reason for someone to be offended.
We've all got our own tastes and experiences to share. My one really good friend who manages a gun store tells me not to buy a new Taurus because he sends way too many back for warranty repairs. He is especially not a fan of the Judge. Some of them have locked up while firing and been very difficult to open to get them unloaded so they could be packaged to be sent back for repairs. This is a guy who knows a lot about handguns and even worked for Wilson Combat at one point. If he advises I avoid a certain brand, I don't take offense. I pay just a little more attention.
I too had a guy at the gun store say that the Taurus's were mediocre at best. I had just bought a LCR and asked him for his honest opinion of the Taurus line since our business was done. He didn't want to trash the line too badly but he was very lukewarm towards their guns. I have a friend that recently bought a 7 rnd Taurus .357, he's not a gun guy and cannot explain what's wrong with it but it sounds like it's locked up.
I have an older Taurus .357 that is probably about 15 years old and it's been a good gun and gets shot almost monthly. The one problem that I've had with it is the ejector rod sometimes (yearly) will unscrew slightly and will be too far into the shroud to allow the cylinder assembly to open. I take a pen, screw driver, etc and tighten it back up. No biggie. One day I'll have my locktite with me when this happens. It's a range toy not a home defense gun.
I've got a great Kimber and it gets shot monthly. I stopped worrying about how many rounds were through it after about 3000. It's extremely reliable and accurate (Stainless Target II in 9mm). While I've heard that Kimber quality has dropped in recent years mine is absolutely perfect. Of course Kimber sells about 75,000 handguns yearly now so the more that you sell the more complaints that you'll get.

Patriotme
May 24, 2011, 10:37 AM
For real life advice about guns & living in a SHTF environment check out FerFal's blog.
Everyone always talks about FerFal and I think that he's a great resource in regards to the kind of SHTF that his country went through.
I don't however believe that he's the absolute expert in every regard. Those that lived through the genocide in Bosnia and the run up before the fighting had different experiences. Those that live in Mozambique have other experiences. I don't think that you can judge one nation by another. Different cultures, expectations, law enforcement and preperation levels effect the situation. Look at the CA earthquake of 1989 vs what happened in New Orleans during Katrina. Heck, look at New Orleans compared to every neighboring area that was equally devastated. Compare the flooding and blizzards we've seen over the last few years to how people reacted in New Orleans.
FerFal is a great resource but I wouldn't trust his views on SHTF to match reality in the US.

Patriotme
May 24, 2011, 10:39 AM
I would love to see someone make a modern version of the LeMat. The Judge and S&W Governor comes kind of close.

Sgt_R
May 24, 2011, 11:00 AM
I REALLY like the look of the CX4... Keltec sub2000 has a cool looking model out with a AR rail. Does anyone have experience with either? A search of Keltec sub2000 brings up mixed reviews, some saying that it's junk and broke easily others saying it's a cool little tool.

There's a thread on the Sub2k over in Rifle Country right now; responses seem to be overwhelmingly positive: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=505205

I'd like to pick one up some day, but it's pretty low on my bucket list.

R

DoubleTapDrew
May 24, 2011, 11:42 AM
I REALLY like the look of the CX4...
I do too. Didn't like the price though. For <$300 you can get a Hi-Point 995 and get an ATI stock for it and have a CX4 clone.

MachIVshooter
May 24, 2011, 12:27 PM
I'm going to go with the suggestion that a few others have mentioned. Get your shoulder fixed. It's not just firing a weapon that is affected.

As an aside, you may be able to do more than you think without surgery or drugs. Thing is, sometimes the surgeries don't fix it or even make it worse. Try fixing it on your own with exercise first.

I injured my right shoulder doing deltoid flys (went to high, too fast). I had to stop going to the gym for awhile, but later decided to work through it. Hurt like hell, but over the last couple of years, I've gotten back full range of motion with tolerable pain. Only occasionally do I strain it enough that it hurts after the fact, nothing a little Ibuprofen and a day of R&R doesn't take care of.

Try this approach first. It's amazing what your body is capable of. And find a good chiropractor (good, not just a quack who wants your money). He/she will be able to move things in ways that you can't by yourself, and it helps. In addition to hurting my shoulder, I had bad sciatica in my left leg, to the point that I couldn't sleep many nights. A few months of therapy almost completely fixed it. Still kind of a constant dull ache/burn, but it can be ignored most of the time.

If none of this works, then maybe it's time for surgery. But that should be a last resort.

JohnBiltz
May 24, 2011, 05:41 PM
Does it bother you in the prone? You don't see it much on ranges but grunts fight on their bellies.

Vonderek
May 31, 2011, 09:24 PM
Everyone always talks about FerFal and I think that he's a great resource in regards to the kind of SHTF that his country went through.
I don't however believe that he's the absolute expert in every regard. Those that lived through the genocide in Bosnia and the run up before the fighting had different experiences. Those that live in Mozambique have other experiences. I don't think that you can judge one nation by another. Different cultures, expectations, law enforcement and preperation levels effect the situation. Look at the CA earthquake of 1989 vs what happened in New Orleans during Katrina. Heck, look at New Orleans compared to every neighboring area that was equally devastated. Compare the flooding and blizzards we've seen over the last few years to how people reacted in New Orleans.
FerFal is a great resource but I wouldn't trust his views on SHTF to match reality in the US.
Patriotme is offline Report Post Quick reply to this message
I respect your opinion and agree that all cultures have differences but the two examples you mentioned are about as far from an American comparison as you could possibly cite...a Third World African culture and a genocidal tribal Eastern European culture with a history of shifting borders. Argentina is by and large a heavily Western European-influenced culture that experienced an economic collapse similar to what we may be in the early stages of. You mentioned natural disasters and hurricanes in particular. I lived through the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew (and about a half dozen others) and my family is from the north shore of Lake Pontchartrain and got hammered by Katrina so I have a little first and second hand experience about living in a post-hurricane environment of SHTF. I have no financial interest in FerFal's blog and don't know the man but there is an incredible amount of practical firsthand knowledge there germane to this thread.

JN01
May 31, 2011, 10:00 PM
In reply to what you and Sky said I am. I was referred to a chiropractor... Ugh. Last time I'll go to a chiropractor. I just recently got a PCP, not because I didn't have insurance just because I traveled alot and from 18 till now I haven't had much need for a doctor. But I def agree with you both and I am hoping my new PCP can help me. A MRI was done on my neck and showed a cyst on my spinal cord... The ortho surgeon that received the MRI said the cyst might not even be the root of the pain, also that it's too small to risk operating on.

I'm not well versed in body physology but I think it's a pinched nerve. Everytime I tell someone the symptoms they say "That sounds like a pinched nerved" and googling my symptoms brings up pinched nerve.

Couple months ago, I had similar problems, pain in my neck and shoulder blade, with tingling in my left hand. Chiropractor suggested it might be a herniated disc in the cervical vertebrae (neck). When the disc between the bones bulges out, it can put pressure on the nerves that surround the spine, causing pain other places (like down your arm)

Anti-inflammatories, massage, and 4 visits to the chiropractor fixed it for me. I have a good one, I know some of them are quacks (as are some doctors), and it is not always an appropriate treatment for every condition or every person. I also know people that have gone the surgery route and gotten screwed up worse than before they got cut on.

Anyway, hopefully you can get it fixed and shoot whatever you want.

HammerheadSSN663
May 31, 2011, 10:04 PM
I've thought long and hard about this for sometime.

If the SHTF and I gotta grab the kids and a gun and run, its the .22LR semi Rugar 10/22 with a scope, silencer, multiple mags, and loaded with the snappiest 5000 rounds of .22s I can find. (using CCI Velocitors now).

Rifle and rounds are light weight for carrying, common round the world over, excellent for small game, and decent/fair for medium game.

this whole notion of a post apocolyptic scenario is way over played IMO.

FWIW, I'm just an occasional range visitor and not a true gun guy.

And yes, I have the standard big calibers in the safe.

Just my opinion and what I've decided for myself.

Sheepdog1968
June 1, 2011, 02:33 AM
I really think you need to get the nerve damaged examined by medical professionals before purchasing new firearms. In the meantime you should be fine with what you own. You are the weapon not the firearm.

How did a break job with a subpar tool cause nerve damage? How long has it been?

lokpyrite
June 1, 2011, 03:34 AM
Silly option but have you tried shouldering left handed instead of right?

fragout
June 1, 2011, 07:21 AM
My honest opinion regarding this matter?

You should look at getting your body back into good condition. firearms are not the only issues to worry about if your caught as is...after the balloon goes up. (An AR chambered in 5.56mmdoesn't produce all that much felt recoil)

In the meantime, I might suggest that you simply use whatever handgun you own as of now.

Here is another..
If your married, and/or have family that are close, why not see if they have the abilities to utilize a rifle?

This is probably what you don't want to hear, but I have been in your shoes before, and so has the wife. We both own, shoot, and prefer the M14/M1A. While we were down with shoulder issues, we used 10-22's, and M1 Carbines, as both are very light in weight, and literally easy on the shoulders....as compared to our favorite. A pistol caliber long gun would fall in here as well, but are in the same category as a 5.56mm chambered AR in terms of approx weight, and felt recoil.

Other ideas for you to consider....

1. Utilize a bipod on your rifle of choice. ( Depending on how your shoulder was injured)

2. Try shooting with your opposite hand.

3. 22 WMR chambered long guns.


Good luck, and focus on getting your shoulder back to snuff.

11B

harmon rabb
June 1, 2011, 08:44 AM
the pain is in your right shoulder -- so learn to shoot rifles left handed. problem solved.

also, the lightest recoiling "real" rifle i can think of is an ak-74 (not 47). i have a bulgarian '74 that kicks like a 22 that has been hitting the gym for a few weeks. very, very low recoil.

ar-15's also have very low recoil.

Dr.Rob
June 2, 2011, 01:00 PM
I've fought with a nagging shoulder injury for 8 or 9 months. (Shattered collarbone). One of the first things I wanted to do was get back to shooting, and it was TOUGH.

Spend your money a good physical therapist. In the long run the benefit outweighs the remote possibility that you'll be in a survival situation needing a rifle.

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