Why can't we call a magazine a clip?


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PursesRHolsters
May 23, 2011, 09:06 AM
At the risk of ruffeling some feathers, Im just wondering why sooooo many people get mad when others refer to magazines as "clips"?
I have been shooting all my life and just wondered why it's such a big deal? :cuss:

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Ed4032
May 23, 2011, 09:07 AM
Good question. Tomato Tomato let's just forget the whole thing.

Deanimator
May 23, 2011, 09:09 AM
You can call a magazine a "clip".

You can also call a porpoise a "fish".

It's just a question of whether you want to use words by their correct meanings and be perceived as knowledgeable.

thump_rrr
May 23, 2011, 09:10 AM
Because it is not the correct terminology.

Sav .250
May 23, 2011, 09:16 AM
Different strokes for different folks..........

I guess if you get their drift..... it`s all good. :)

effengee
May 23, 2011, 09:17 AM
But a magazine doesn't feed a clip.

HOWEVER, if you and I are talking about guns and you say you have a full clip in your 1911, I'll know what you are talking about...

sig220mw
May 23, 2011, 09:21 AM
You can call it what you like but effengee nailed it.

The original meaning of "double action" referred to a handgun that could be fired in two different ways.
Hand cock or trigger cock thus 2 modes of fire or double action. Over the years the meaning has changed and now trigger cocking means double action. I remember this all changing when back in the early 90's or maybe late 80's some manufacturers came out with semi autos that they called DAO or double action only pistols. It may have changed before then but I remember this taking hold especially at that time.

Jeff Cooper commented about it in his book "To ride shoot straight and speak the truth". He said we understand what they mean even though it is incorrect.

Lots of things have changed over the years and clip and magazine are just one of them.

Art Eatman
May 23, 2011, 09:21 AM
'Cause some folks just flat-out worry too much. Gotta make careers of picking fly-poop out of pepper. Not very remunerative, but that's life, I guess...

Sure, using proper nomenclature is to be preferred, and a courteous, polite explanation can be appropriate at times. Unfortunately, however, most corrections are given in an arrogant manner--which doesn't make for friendliness from the recipient.

Not that I'd ever deliberately use the word "clip" around some arrogant snob, you understand. :D

Jolly Rogers
May 23, 2011, 09:23 AM
Why can't we call a magazine a clip??????

Because it isn't one.
Joe

pockets
May 23, 2011, 09:25 AM
I call all of mine 'Leroy'.
.

Mags
May 23, 2011, 09:26 AM
Can you call an en bloc clip a magazine?
I just wonder if the point would be successfully communicated if you were armed with a 1911 and M1 Garand.

Guy needs ammo for the Garand: "toss me another clip"
Guy needs ammo for the 1911: "hand me a mag"

Probably wouldn't work to well when his 1911 runs dry and he asks for a clip and gets an M1 Garand en bloc.

Proper terminology will yield the desired result. IMHO it's just unprofessional for a fellow military member to not use the correct nomenclature.

Vonderek
May 23, 2011, 09:28 AM
What Deanimator said. We all rightly find fault when the press refers to Glocks as "service revolvers" and any semiauto rifle as an "AK47". Using incorrect terminology betrays the speaker as misinformed. I know a lot of gun-people take issue at being corrected so if you want to call a magazine a "clip", feel free to do so but don't be so offended when other well-meaning people try to point out your error.

mopar92
May 23, 2011, 09:28 AM
Did you put diesel in your tank or fuel? You might have put diesel fuel in, but you did not just put "diesel" in... It's all terminology . A clip is a stripper. A magazine holds the ammo, bla bla.. I'm tolerant of it.

mgmorden
May 23, 2011, 09:34 AM
As said, we don't call a magazine a clip because it ain't one.

Clips don't have springs inside them. They are typically clamp-like devices built to feed rounds INTO an integral magazine.

It's kind of like when computer people get mad at people for calling the whole box sitting beside the monitor the "hard drive". No, that's the system unit. The hard drive is a tiny 3.5" to 2.5" box inside of that big box that contains some spinning magnetic platters.

How do you think most mechanics would look at you if you called a crescent wrench a "ratchet"?

Or a gardener if you called a post-hole digger a shovel?

People who are into a particular profession or hobby tend to frown upon using flat out wrong words when referring to things like that.

Just an example, in the pic below this Steyr pistol uses actual clips as shown. Notice that they look different from a magazine. They're inserted from the top and the rounds stripped off into the magazine that's built into the pistol.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_pbwEW_KfEXE/TdpjrLDn8oI/AAAAAAAAAkw/SRvKSMsIn5w/s800/clips.jpg

Vonderek
May 23, 2011, 09:34 AM
It's all good until someone borrows your diesel truck and puts gasoline in it.

mljdeckard
May 23, 2011, 09:35 AM
I don't really care what shooters say as much as when anti-gunners use it incorrectly in a derogatory way. "Shooting a high powered automatic assault weapon at point blank range with cop-killer hollow-points from a high-capacity clip." Like that.

merlinfire
May 23, 2011, 09:37 AM
Plus you can clip your magazines together with a clamp!

Walkalong
May 23, 2011, 09:39 AM
All my life I called mags clips or mags, either one, because that is what folks I knew called them. Not until I joined THR did I learn the proper usage. I still sometimes slip and call a mag a clip. Whoops. :)

Jim Watson
May 23, 2011, 09:41 AM
I find a lot of people willing to correct me on "magazine" versus "clip" but who have no problem loading their ammunition feeding device of whichever sort with "bullets."
Somebody wants to correct me on jargon, he better get it ALL right.

Frank Ettin
May 23, 2011, 09:53 AM
The Chinese say, "The first step toward wisdom is calling things by their right names."

Words have meanings. You can choose to understand the meanings of the words you use and to use those words correctly. Or you can choose to ignore the meanings of words and to misuse them. Which you choose tells others something about you.

LibShooter
May 23, 2011, 10:02 AM
Why can't we call a magazine a clip?

You can.
Words mean what talkers and listeners think they mean. When talking to my father and uncle who learned about shooting from DIs in the Army and Navy, I called that black metal box a "magazine" filled with "rounds."

When I'm shooting with my good ole' buddies and brothers-in-law I don't mind when they ask me to pass them a "clip" full of "bullets." Life is too short to worry about stuff like that.

However, the memory of my uncle and the presence of my father would never allow "clip" to pass from MY lips.

Carl N. Brown
May 23, 2011, 10:09 AM
Clips are used to hold cartridges for rapid reload of magazines, which may be fixed as a permanent part of the gun (Mauser C96 pistol, Mauser 98 rifle, etc.) or detachable (M1 Carbine, AR15, etc.)

Since I became aware in the 1950s, "clip" has been used as a civilian synonym for "detachable box magazine" in hunting magazines, gun catalogs and even factory literature. The reason being I suppose that civilians have little use for stripper clips or en bloc clips, and want to save breath or ink and paper.

Perhaps it is more a military thing, with apparently more military people graduating into the civilian shooting arena. My dad served in WWII in New Guinea and the Philipines and requesting an emergency resupply of ammo preloaded in clips rather than magazines would be a huge difference in combat. I kinda got indoctrinated into calling my magazines magazines.

HOOfan_1
May 23, 2011, 10:15 AM
Words have meanings. You can choose to understand the meanings of the words you use and to use those words correctly. Or you can choose to ignore the meanings of words and to misuse them. Which you choose tells others something about you.

Some understand what was meant even if the wrong word was used and continue the conversation as such, others understand what was meant even if the wrong word was used and choose to derail the conversation by correcting and belittling others. Which you choose tells others something about you.

Carl N. Brown
May 23, 2011, 10:16 AM
fiddletown got it right in post #20.

Box of bullets means different things to a reloader (100 168gr BTHP bullets) and to a casual plinker (50 .22 LR cartridges). Clips and magazines are really two different things also.

Correction does not have to be done in belittling manner, and correction can be taken as enlightenment.

NavyLCDR
May 23, 2011, 10:18 AM
http://www.nraila.org/issues/firearmsglossary/

CLIP
A device for holding a group of cartridges. Semantic wars have been fought over the word, with some insisting it is not a synonym for "detachable magazine." For 80 years, however, it has been so used by manufacturers and the military. There is no argument that it can also mean a separate device for holding and transferring a group of cartridges to a fixed or detachable magazine or as a device inserted with cartridges into the mechanism of a firearm becoming, in effect, part of that mechanism.

Sorry... but the NRA tends to agree that clip is indeed synonymous with magazine. A lot of times I don't agree with the NRA, but this time I do.

Or, just use both terms together:
http://www.remington.com/products/accessories/gun-parts/magazine-clips/model-597-30-round-magazine-clip.aspx

woad_yurt
May 23, 2011, 10:20 AM
Personally, I like to use words correctly. If I was told the proper term for something, I wouldn't insist on calling it something else for the same reason I wouldn't insist on leaving food stuck in my front teeth after being informed that it was there.

Regarding the clip-vs-magazine thing, it's a bigger deal here than elsewhere because this is a firearms forum.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
May 23, 2011, 10:27 AM
You can use whatever terminology you want regarding anything.
Whether people you are talking to will know what you are talking about is a whole other issue.

yo u c an alSo ty pe s ent.eNces Like th i s ,if yu wnt to .

Whether anyone will understand what you type is a whole other issue as well!

JohnBT
May 23, 2011, 10:30 AM
"As said, we don't call a magazine a clip because it ain't one."

I find the use of the word clip much less offensive than the word ain't. To each their own.

mgmorden
May 23, 2011, 10:31 AM
yo u c an alSo ty pe s ent.eNces Like th i s ,if yu wnt to .

Arocdnicg to rsceearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pcale. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit pobelrm. Tihs is buseace the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Still, it doesn't mean that people won't think you an idiot for saying it like that, even if they still understand you :D.

LibShooter
May 23, 2011, 10:36 AM
I find the use of the word clip much less offensive than the word ain't.

If you're going to dis' the word "ain't" I ain't gonna let you get away with this:

To each their own.

It should be "To each his (or her) own."
:)

Friendly, Don't Fire!
May 23, 2011, 10:37 AM
For anyone who does illicit drugs, using the magazine as a "clip" would be a bit on the awkward side, if not get you arrested in certain places.

CoRoMo
May 23, 2011, 10:37 AM
This whole 'magazine/clip' thing has taken its toll on me. My stress level it at an all time high. I have a hard time sleeping, but when I do, I sleep in way too late in the morning. I haven't been watching what I eat. I'm not taking pride in my work much anymore. The marriage is trying through a rough spot now and then. I get burdened with what the future holds and I'm slacking off in a lot of my Christian duties.

We really need to get this one right guys. I don't know how much longer I can take it.

Red Cent
May 23, 2011, 10:43 AM
And it shows your age. Habit, you know. Hear clip for a lot of your young life and clip just comes out once in a while.

gym
May 23, 2011, 10:53 AM
You can call it what you like, but someone is definetlly going to correct you, if you choose that route. Most non gun people use the word "clip". If you are buying or selling guns, it is better to use the proper words, or you will more than not be looked upon as a newbie. When haggeling especially or discusing firearms, it's just better to know the proper terms. Kind of like a woman calling the transmission, a shifter thing.

CraigC
May 23, 2011, 10:55 AM
What Deanimator said. We all rightly find fault when the press refers to Glocks as "service revolvers" and any semiauto rifle as an "AK47". Using incorrect terminology betrays the speaker as misinformed. I know a lot of gun-people take issue at being corrected so if you want to call a magazine a "clip", feel free to do so but don't be so offended when other well-meaning people try to point out your error.
Very well stated.

happygeek
May 23, 2011, 10:57 AM
Magazine vs a clip, enough said.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x297/fdhs_runner/Firearms/p8130237.jpg

steelerdude99
May 23, 2011, 11:19 AM
The thing that burns me is when I CALL IT A MAGAZINE, and someone erroneously corrects me by saying “you mean a clip?”. mgmorden, got it right when non-tech folks call the whole computer a “hard drive”. It’s just not.

chuck

mgmorden
May 23, 2011, 11:22 AM
I find the use of the word clip much less offensive than the word ain't. To each their own.

Ain't has been in the dictionary for quite a while now. I actually used it in the correct fashion, and their ain't nothing you can do about it ;).

mgmorden
May 23, 2011, 11:26 AM
mgmorden, got it right when non-tech folks call the whole computer a “hard drive”. It’s just not.


Way back when I was in college I used to work the IT helpdesk for the college as a student worker. One day when we were sitting around a professor came in all panicked screaming that "Someone stole my hard drive!". Our supervisor went to go check it out.

The rest of us were honestly kinda puzzled at first as to why someone would come in and specifically steal his hard drive. I mean we'd had lab computers gutted before, but never just a hard drive. It was 5 to 10 minutes into our pondering until I remembered that some people call the whole computer a "hard drive". Sure enough, when our supervisor got back to update us on it, the whole computer had been taken :).

MachIVshooter
May 23, 2011, 11:26 AM
The original meaning of "double action" referred to a handgun that could be fired in two different ways.

Incorrect. Double action has always meant that the trigger performs two actions, cocking and releasing the hammer or striker. Double action and double action only firearms have been around for more than a century. However, DAO revolvers were usually avertised as "automatic" or "hammerless" back in the day.

http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/twaits/sw-1.jpg

The term "Double action" or "Traditional Double action" is implicit in meaning that there are two modes of operation, the latter prefix emerging later to describe autoloaders that may be fired in either mode for the first shot and revert to SA operation for subsequent shots.

On the original topic, the correct definitions of clip and magazine are not limited to firearms. A clip holds an item partially or mostly exposed, while a magazine contains or nearly contains the objects.

Clip, Noun: A device, typically flexible or worked by a spring, for holding an object or objects together.

Magazine, Noun: A place where goods or supplies are stored

loneviking
May 23, 2011, 11:41 AM
'Clip' simply means to attach something. You 'clip' a nametag to your shirt; you attach a 'clip' to the butt of a handgun to hold it inside your waistband; and a 'clip' is simply a means of attaching bullets so you can load 'em into your gun! It might be a stripper clip (via M1 Garand) or thumb loaded as in my Sig pistol. It's all good to me and I am heartily sick and tired of the Politically Correct speech police saying otherwise.

So, hand me another clip loaded with bullets and lets get to putting lead downrange!

moonpie
May 23, 2011, 11:50 AM
magazine originally meant the blockhouse where ammunition was stored in a fort. therefor it is proper to say that a 1911 uses a seven round detachable blockhouse while the winchester rifle has a tubular blockhouse. and while we're on the subject since the cylinder on a J frame is technically a rotary magazine has my revolver been magically transformed into a pistol ?

Vonderek
May 23, 2011, 12:01 PM
since the cylinder on a J frame is technically a rotary magazine has my revolver been magically transformed into a pistol ?
Your revolver has always been a pistol. Sam Colt called his handguns "pistols", the nomenclature of the 19th century referred to "pistol fighters" or "pistoleros" and even the term "pistol" has its roots in the 15th century....all decades and centuries before the invention of the semiautomatic handgun.

But that's the subject of another thread.:)

BHP FAN
May 23, 2011, 12:03 PM
because you feed your Garand or SKS with clips, and your .45 1911A1 with magazines, and if you use the wrong word for the wrong one you reveal your ignorance to those of us that know the difference.

Scimmia
May 23, 2011, 12:06 PM
If I pet your cat and tell you what a nice dog you have, you'd think it was strange, right? They're both pets, but they're not the same thing.

A clip and a magazine both hold ammuntion, but they aren't the same thing.

MachIVshooter
May 23, 2011, 12:09 PM
Your revolver has always been a pistol. Sam Colt called his handguns "pistols", the nomenclature of the 18th century referred to "pistol fighters" or "pistoleros" and even the term "pistol" has its roots in the 15th century....all decades and centuries before the invention of the semiautomatic handgun.

This.

While "magazine" and "clip" have very specific definitions, "pistol" encompasses any firearm designed and intended to be fired one-handed. It is only more recenly that some people have come to believe that the word "pistol" does not include revolvers. The word came to be out of a need to separate that type of firearm from long guns, because the term "handgun" originally meant any portable firearm meant to be fired by hand, rather than mounted. Only more recently has the term "handgun" evolved to be pistol specific.

zoom6zoom
May 23, 2011, 12:16 PM
I get amused by folks who get bent out of shape by the misuse of "clip" and then proceed to call their rifle stocks "furniture". That term is actually the metal bits, bobs and hardware attached TO the stock, not the entire stock itself.

Sam1911
May 23, 2011, 12:16 PM
Once more, again, we've discussed and answered this question.

When you confuse or misapply common nomenclature, it says something about you.
If you politely offer clarification to those who confuse or misapply common nomenclature, it says something about you.
If you know better but use misapplied terms anyway, it says something about you.
If you correct others' misuses in arrogant and pedantic ways, it says something about you.

Know yourself and be happy.

And that's enough for today. I'm sure we'll get to debate it all again tomorrow... :rolleyes:

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