[FSCJedi]

Anyone use them? Just wonderin' what the general consensus is concerning them. I just ordered one from westernstageprops.com. An 8' 12-plait Australian with mahogany colored leather. Probably around 10' total including the fall and popper.

I know that the "short whip" (more of a flexible stick than a whip, in my opinion) is taught for self defense, but what about the actual bull whip. I saw a really cool pic of a group of mounted cowboys surrounded by a crowd of people and successfully keeping them at bay with nothing but thier whips. I know if you use one you're suppose to use another smaller and faster melee weapon in your off hand, like a dagger or something similarly quick.

So let's talk BULLWHIPS! :) The floor is open.

[JShirley]

AFAIK, there is no codified Western whip-fighting tradition, unlike surviving Asian schools of flexibles.

Bullwhips are fairly capable weapons, but they're not exactly the first thing you're likely to have handy when the mob surrounds your car, or the punk in the parking lots demands that you give it up.

John

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Oddly enough the wife and I are going to be taking glasses at the San Francisco Bullwhip Workshop (http://www.bullwhip.org/sf/) after seeing a demo of their work at a local street fair.

Not my first choice for a weapon; but you gotta admit, way cool.

FSCJedi, at this point you know more than me. All I know is from old Westerns and pirate movies when someone lips off to the captain. 'Arggg, 10 lashes to the scurvy dog.

[Edward429451]

Bullwhips are way cool. I had one for awhile but gave it to a BIL. They do take a little getting used to but could be fairly fearsome to passive aggression. I never used one against the elephant, just a novelty.

Trying to break ballons with them is fun. Careful though, I got myself in the neck with one before I learned the ropes.

:D

(My understanding of them is that the 'crack' is a sonic crack.) ?

[LawDog]

Whip (fouet) is taught in some of the salles of savate defense; and it is also taught as an 'exotic weapon' in the American Heritage Fighting Arts Association curriculum.

It is a somewhat...problematical...weapon. The actual danger area presented by the whip is very narrowly defined -- literally a matter of inches at the end of your whip line -- and the amount of open space needed to get it into action is considerable.

In well-trained hands, the terminal effects of 6-9 inches of braided steel leader line, weighing I don't know how many grains, accelerated past the speed of sound before impacting soft tissue has got to be seen to be believed.

If your opponent can focus past the un-nerving 'cracks' in front of his face, has steady nerves and a bit of awareness concerning timing, a whip can be taken away from its' wielder fairly easily.

That being said, whip training develops a fantastic sense of timing, distance and grace -- all of which can't hurt the rest of your fighting skills.

LawDog

[La Pistoletta]

Kinky, but I'd take a flamethrower.
*Opens gas valve, turns the pressure regulator, ignites the gas, pushes the napalm release...*

[FSCJedi]

Here's that pic I was talking about.

[Soap]

I think they are cool in that neato sense. As far as a defensive weapon, they are useless IMO. Lawdog is dead on about the problems with the whip. Besides, even if you could use one effectively, are you going to carry one around?

[QuarterBoreGunner]

are you going to carry one around?
Only when I'm chasing after the Ark of the Covenant...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/crichton/img/indy.jpg
and even then I know when to switch to a firearm.

[Sunray]

"...pirate movies..." That'd be a cat-o-nine-tails not a bull whip. I seem to recall reading some place how truly dangerous a bull whip can be in untrained hands. Eyes put out, etc. They're not exactly something you can lug around without drawing unwanted constabuary attention.

[FSCJedi]

Quote by LawDog:

In well-trained hands, the terminal effects of 6-9 inches of braided steel leader line, weighing I don't know how many grains, accelerated past the speed of sound before impacting soft tissue has got to be seen to be believed.

Does this mean you've actually seen a whip that was modified like this? I'd be very interested in knowing how the whip was modified and what the actual effects were on the target in question.

[LawDog]

I've seen a fifteen-foot snake (like a bullwhip, but without the wooden handle) that had the popper replaced with six inches of wire from a fishing leader.

The wire leader was unravelled a bit and woven into the leather braiding in the same way that a cloth or leather popper is.

Properly cracked, it severed a one-inch diameter dowel rod. Rather neatly bisected one of those brick-sized boneless ham things, too.

Cracking it against a chicken carcass, while not completely severing the chicken carcass, did produce a four-inch long laceration to a depth of two-three inches.

The gentleman who owned the whip confided in me that while the wire popper was fairly spectacular, it was when the wire decided to part ways with the whip that things got really interesting.

I have since decided that occupying the same general spatial co-ordinates as six inches of wire travelling in a random direction at 900 feet per second might be a touch more traumatic than I really need in a self-defense type of situation.

LawDog

[QuarterBoreGunner]

six inches of wire travelling in a random direction at 900 feet per second might be a touch more traumatic than I really need in a self-defense type of situation

:what:

I have a vision of a notched-wire fragmentation grenade going off... except the wire is in one piece... and it's going in one direction...

[Anthony]

While LawDog's points are well taken, the bullwhip is a niche weapon that can be very effective in trained hands. It is just not one with a popular real world following right now and unfortunately has a very romantic cinematic image. In the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) I study there is an old tradition of using either a bullwhip in the 6 to 8 foot range or a short flexible reed type whip approximately 3 feet in length with a close range bladed weapon in the other hand. Not many instructors teach the whip as it is not emphasized as strongly as the other weapons (e.g., knives, swords, sticks, etc.) in the FMAs. Of the several FMA instructors I have asked about whip training, many had trained with it, several suggested that space in their dojo was too limited to train with it, and almost all of them expressed a desire to learn more about their use as a weapon.

Whenever the discussion of the bullwhip comes up, the mention of a determined aggressor charging past the snapping whip is brought up and emphasized. While this is a realistic possibility, I firmly believe it is the exception and not the norm. I submit to you that the majority of bad guys out there are cowards and blowhards that will turn tail the moment their illegal activities become somewhat difficult. To describe the wounds inflicted by an 8 foot bullwhip as making a BG's job more difficult is an understatement.

To me, the bullwhip is also an extremely versatile tool. Beyond it's use as a weapon, It can serve as a expedient 8 foot of lifeline to throw someone you're trying to pull from the water out of a hole, etc. Small to medium sized animals you do not wish to kill can be humanely repelled with it. In a defensive role it can be used as an impact weapon coiled if the handle is weighted properly (e.g., shot loaded) or used as a garrotte if necessary. It also allows you to keep BGs at a greater distance than pepper spray. Of course, one could always use it for its traditional purpose of spurring on cattle and horses if one is so inclined. :)

The bullwhip also has the virtue of not being banned from carry in Texas. Unfortunately, with or without a handgun carry permit, Texans are forbade from carrying "illegal clubs" (expandable baton) and "illegal knives" in public. maximum legal blade length is 5 1/2 inches single sided. As for carrying it concealed all one must to is mount it coiled on the offside of a shoulder rig under a light jacket. A shorter 6 to 8 foot whip coiled can be quite easily concealed with a little effort.

So when it comes to less than lethal force in civilian hands in Texas, you have a choice of a Taser gun, pepper spray, or a bulllwhip. Each has it advantages and limitations. Personally, I don't trust the Taser quite yet, carry pepper spray daily, and recognize the aerosol's many limitations. I'm planning on adding a whip to my kit in the future once I feel competent with it. In the hierarchy of force the bullwhip falls between pepper spray and a baton, or perhaps even with the baton.

The final decision is a personal choice. Make it realistically and choose wisely.

[FSCJedi]

From this (http://129.71.164.29/wvcode/61/WVC%2061%20%20-%20%207%20%20-%20%20%202%20%20.htm) list of definitions, I can't find any mention of "whips" on there anywhere. The closest thing would be under #9: Deadly Weapons. However, a good lawyer could argue that a bullwhip or stockwhip (cat-o-nine tails is a different story all together) was not designed "an instrument which is designed to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death", but as an instrument of intimidation.

I do like the idea of a shoulder harness for the whip. How would one rig something up like this? I ordered a belt carrier with my whip, and truthfully, once I get proficient enough (for my liking), I probably will carry it around. I, to, am liscensed to carry concealed here in WV (and VA and KY). However, I can see the advantages to having a whip handy in certain situations.

[Bullwhip]

Hello everyone. My thanks to FSCJedi for showing me the way here. This is my kind of thread. The discussion of whips! There have been some excellent comments made here. Very cool stuff.

I love the bullwhip as a weapon. Sure it isn't a tactical weapon for a soldier but it is effective in its power to intimidate and inflict extremely painful yet superficial injury. If the handler is well trained in both the weaknesses and strengths of a whip, that is.

For instance, all of you guys who made the quip about a gun have to realize that a well trained handler is not going to stand fifty yards away waiting for you to draw your firearm. A bullwhip is a fast attack, first strike weapon. If a smart handler is going to deploy his/her bullwhip for offensive or defensive purposes you can bet that 1.) you will be in range and 2.) you'll have severe facial trauma before you ever get to your firearm. An even smarter whip handler will have vacated the situation with out sticking around to see if the injury inflicted was serious or not.

Now, I'm not exactly new to bullwhips and whip cracking. I've been messing around with whips since my childhood. Just with in the last couple of years I've began learning the craft of making whips.

This is an eight footer I made back in November of '03. It is done in the classic David Morgan style. (a.k.a. Indiana Jones bullwhip)
http://home.earthlink.net/~the_edge74/images/whip2003.jpg

This one is what I carry while hiking and camping. I braided the diamond handle shorter and added two ring knots which keep the handle secured in the whip holster while moving. Approx. 7' long.
http://home.earthlink.net/~the_edge74/images/hiking_whip.jpg

This next photo is a whip of my own design. It is what I call a Pocket Bull (TM). It is small like a pocket snake whip but has a short handle foundation giving it more control like a bullwhip. The length is four feet from knob to point (end of braid) and easily coils to fit into a cargo pocket or bag. I carry this whip quite often and have used it to fend off unleashed dogs on many occasions. It is very fast, very loud and very painful. The butt knob can double as a black jack for closer encounters.
http://home.earthlink.net/~the_edge74/images/PB003.jpg

So I guess you could say that I am a firm believer in the bullwhip as a weapon. However, it takes hundreds of hours of practice to master. Unlike a sword or club or knife or gun which can be used to inflict serious injury even with out proper training or instruction, a whip takes time and patience to learn and use effectively. If you're looking to use a whip as a non-lethal tool of self-defense and have never used one before, I don't recommend carrying one with you right away. Get proper instruction or a tape and then practice 'till your arm is ready to fall off. When that happens, switch hands and keep going.

[BeLikeTrey]

You have very good looking whips! I've been wanting to get more into whips and master them as well. I think every one of us have a little cowboy in us. ;) I too have an affinity for making my own stuff, and since I have yet to see a quality bullwhip around here, perhaps I should learn the art. How long does it take to make one and is there a good source for instruction and materials?

[Anthony]

Hey Bullwhip,

Thanks for the beautiful photos and sharing your experience with us.

Can you comment a bit about the reinforced or "shot loaded" whip handles I have read about in the past?

Others have suggested such a handle could be used as a close quarters impact weapon in an energency if the assailant was to close to you to employ the whip. Any thoughts or experience you could share would be invaluble.

Does such a handle change the balance and cracking ability of the bulllwhip appreciably?

Thanks again.

[JShirley]

Bullwhip,

Welcome to THR. Your whips look well made.

have to realize that a well trained handler is not going to stand fifty yards away waiting for you to draw your firearm

Somehow, I'm not too worried about this eventuality. :)

My take on the whip is that it's a fun toy. There may be some few people who actually might have cause to carry one in the course of their work (the few remaining cowpokes), and for them, it may be an excellent less-lethal tool. There are just better tools around for other uses, such as carrying concealed.

John

[Bullwhip]

BeLikeTrey You wrote:
You have very good looking whips! I've been wanting to get more into whips and master them as well. I think every one of us have a little cowboy in us. I too have an affinity for making my own stuff, and since I have yet to see a quality bullwhip around here, perhaps I should learn the art. How long does it take to make one and is there a good source for instruction and materials?

Thank you for the compliment.

I'm just a hobbiest when it comes to whip making so I break the construction process up over the course of a few days. If really pushed I could probably make one in a couple days. The pros can easily produce a couple whips (or more) a day.

As far as making your own whip I suggest buying a quality whip and learning to use it first. Knowing how and why a whip cracks helps you understand what you are building if you decide to try. Jumping in and trying to build a whip with out any instruction or knowledge of cracking will give you very poor results. There are a few books on the subject but none of them show how to build a quality bullwhip. Contact me offline and I can give you more details.

Anthony wrote:
Can you comment a bit about the reinforced or "shot loaded" whip handles I have read about in the past?

Others have suggested such a handle could be used as a close quarters impact weapon in an energency if the assailant was to close to you to employ the whip. Any thoughts or experience you could share would be invaluble.

Does such a handle change the balance and cracking ability of the bulllwhip appreciably?


Two of the most important qualities a whip needs in order to help it crack easily are taper and weight. Shot loading is just one way in which a whip maker does this. Another method is using braided bellies which is what I prefer to use.

The shot loaded handle you are referring too is what is used in a snake whip. Snake whips are similar to bullwhips but instead of having a rigid handle foundation they have a tapered bag loaded with lead shot that starts at the knot and extends for a distance down the core of the whip. This results in a flexible grip section that makes it easy to coil into a pocket or saddle bag but requires much more wrist action in order to crack. Yes, the weighted knots sections of these whips can be used as a sort of black jack or sap in CQB. Personally I do not prefer snake whips. I use bullwhips and stock whips because the rigid handles are much more versitile for multiple cracking routines and target work.

[Bullwhip]

Looks like I killed the discussion. Sorry 'bout that. I'm knew to your group so I hope I didn't break protocol somehow. Take care.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Nah' you didn't kill it. You provided a lot of quality information. If you look around, you'll see we don't have a whole lot of protocol here. If you have some information, go ahead and share it!

I don't have anything more to add until the wife and I take those classes I mention above. Rather hold my tongue that speak from ignorance.

Learning how to use a bullwhip correctly does soundcool, but honestly, I'd never look to it as a defensive weapon. I live in San Francisco; it's tough enough to find an open parking spot, let alone room to crack a whip.

[Correia]

I grew up on a dairy farm, worked with thousands of cows over the years, also did a little bit of open range style stuff. My Dad loved the idea of the bullwhip, and purchased a very nice one with the intent of learning how to use it to herd cows.

Unfortunatly for the rest of us, he was way more dangerous to the human beings trying to help than to any cow he may have actually been aiming at. :D As Bullwhip pointed out above, this is an item that requires serious practice to master! (I would recommend wearing your safety goggles as well).

(looking around for PETA people, nope, all clear) Personally my anti-bull weapon was a 3 foot length of galvanized barn pipe. :) Didn't take much skill to master, but pipeing a bull in the nose usually got its attention.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Correia....HA!:D

[Bullwhip]

Learning how to use a bullwhip correctly does soundcool, but honestly, I'd never look to it as a defensive weapon. I live in San Francisco; it's tough enough to find an open parking spot, let alone room to crack a whip.

QuarterBoreGunner,

All you need is a public park with nice soft grass and you have the perfect place to start cracking. You may have an LEO come over and inquire about it but just be polite and do what you can to remove their concern. If they try making it into being a dangerous weapon gently inform them that whips are regarded as agricultural tools and not weapons.

Good luck on your classes. I hope you find that the hobby suits you.

I grew up on a dairy farm, worked with thousands of cows over the years, also did a little bit of open range style stuff. My Dad loved the idea of the bullwhip, and purchased a very nice one with the intent of learning how to use it to herd cows.

Unfortunatly for the rest of us, he was way more dangerous to the human beings trying to help than to any cow he may have actually been aiming at. As Bullwhip pointed out above, this is an item that requires serious practice to master! (I would recommend wearing your safety goggles as well).

Correia,

Great story. Does your Dad still have that whip?

You bring up a good point about safety too. If you are a beginning whip cracker you'll want a pair of safety classes, a wide brimmed hat (or helmet), long pants, thick jacket and maybe even gloves. You will hit yourself and that is a fact. These things will help minimize the damage. A friend of mine almost lost an eye during his learning phase. The popper came back and smacked his eye and caused blindness for several days. Per doctors orders he had to lie down with an compress for a week away from work or he risked rupturing a blood vessel and causing permament vision loss. He fully recovered though. So have fun but be very safe.

[Herk]

I have begun studying Sayoc Kali. For those that don't know, this is a Filipino martial art that is "All Blade, All the Time". One of the major tactics/components of this art is projectiles. The whip is their major training tool to help master the speed and accuracy of throwing these projectiles.

So, even though they don't support the use of a whip as an EDC weapon (which they certainly acknowledge it can very well be in the right hands) they are big proponents on "Hundreds of Hours of Training" with the whip.

Just and FYI

[Correia]

I believe my Dad still has it. I don't think he has tried to use it for years though. Next time I visit I'll see if I can find it.

[Anthony]

Does anyone have any suggestions on a top drawer bullwhip maker other than Don Morgan?

Mr. Morgan's work is wonderful, but I was wanting several makers to look at.

[Bullwhip]

Does anyone have any suggestions on a top drawer bullwhip maker other than Don Morgan?

Mr. Morgan's work is wonderful, but I was wanting several makers to look at.


Just to correct you, the whip maker you are referring to is David Morgan (http://www.davidmorgan.com/browse.html?category_name=whips&ticket=637684-2831782&sequence=284291) and not Don. Please don't take offense. He's a friend of mine, that's all.

Here is a partial list of whip makers for you to check out. There are many, many more but these are the ones I either know and/or have used their products. They are 100% honest in their construction and service.

Western Stage Props (http://www.westernstageprops.com/)
Mark Allen is the proprietor of Western Stage Props and carries several different styles of whips by different whip makers. He has a great selection to choose from.

Joe Strain (http://www.northernwhipco.com/)
Joe is one of the best whip makers in the United States. He sells some of his whips through Western Stage Props but he also deals privately as well. Joe is making the whips for the upcoming Zorro sequel.

Paul Stenhouse (http://www.geocities.com/paulbrianstenhouse/)
Paul makes a very solid whip. I learned the craft of whip making from him.

Bernie Wojcicki (http://www.em-brand-whips.com/)
Bernie is based out of New Zealand and makes a very good whip. He uses a shot loaded core for his bullwhips.

Michael Murphy (http://www.murphywhips.com/)
Mike is in Australia and not only is he one of the finest whip makers around he is also one of the best whip crackers I have ever seen. He has won numerous championships in the sport. The two best stock whips, I have ever cracked, were made by Mike.

East Coast Whips (http://www.geocities.com/ecwhips/index.html)
Jim Markell is fairly new to whip making but has come a long way. He now makes very good whips at very good prices.

GLD Enterprises (http://www.gldenterprises.net/Shopping.htm)
Paul Nolan makes the whips here and has quickly gained an excellent reputation for quality work. He made the bullwhips used in the recent film "The Rundown" starring The Rock.


Well, like I said, that is just a partial list and a small one at that. Do a web search and you'll find plenty of other whip makers. All of the whip makers I listed above are very honest and I would stake my reputation on them giving you quality products. The reason I stress honesty so much when it comes to whip making is because the inner construction of a whip is the most important aspect of it being quality. Only the whip maker knows what is inside because the overlay hides it. A less than honest whip maker will use short cuts and cheap materials inside and you won't know it until the thing falls apart.

As you can tell I love talking whips and whip making so if anyone has any questions about a particular whip or a whip maker that you find online feel free to contact me anytime.

Also, if you're interested in the compact Pocket Bulls(tm) that I make I sell them for $130 which includes shipping. They are the only whips I sell at this time.

(EDIT: Fixed some spelling here and there.)

[bobs1066]

Bullwhip, thanks again for a lot of info.

bobs1066

[tex_n_cal]

Ingoring what Mingo did on the old Daniel Boone TV show, they don't seem terribly useful. Last time I saw one used was in the West End Marketplace in Dallas. There was a boot salesman in a western wear store in the mall. When things were dull he'd sneak out into the hallway, make sure the coast was clear and crack the whip, which would echo throughout the immediate vicinity.

I have to think that if one simply rushed the whipper(whipsman? Whipist? Whippier?) it would be almost impossible for him to crack the whip at the right distance to do harm.

Now, that whip, combined with a tomahawk, should effectively deal with any unarmed, would-be de-whippers.:D

[Anthony]

Interesting comment "Tex_n_Cal" about the bullwhip combined with the tomahawk. What makes you feel that combination is superior?

With my background in the Filipino arts, I am used to training with a weapon in each hand. What other combinations with the bullwhip do you see as an excellent combination?

Personally, I have a very good feeling about the bullwhip combined with a balanced Gladius.

For those of you who see the bullwhip as a adjunct tool/weapon, what modern scenarios do you envision it being useful?

To Bullwhip: Can you comment further on how much harder it is to become proficient with the Snake Whip versus a conventional bullwhip?

[Bullwhip]

To Bullwhip: Can you comment further on how much harder it is to become proficient with the Snake Whip versus a conventional bullwhip?

Anthony,

I wouldn't necessarily say that one is harder or easier over the other to learn. Each style of single tail whip, be it bull, stock or snake whip, has their own slightly different learning curves. In the end it all comes down to personal preference.

I think I mentioned earlier that the snake whip takes more wrist action to work even for the most basic of cracks. At least that has been my experience with them. For my personal style of cracking I like to throw a whip from primarily my shoulder and elbow with only minor flexing at the wrist. I allow the natural flexing between the thong and handle to do most of the work. This is why I prefer a handle because I can use the leverage of the handle to flip the thong forward faster and more accurately than my wrist. A snake whip, with it's lack of a solid handle, turns your forearm into the "handle" which then, by default, makes your wrist into the flexible junction.

Compare it to a hammer. Using a hammer from the base of the handle allows a greater arc of motion and centrifugal force that causes the head of the handle to do a lot of the work for you. Choke up on the hammer right underneath the head and you will need to use more of your own energy to move the head as fast with as much force.

I'm not saying that it is impossible to use a snake whip with any skill. Quite the contrary. I just prefer a handle foundation and these are my opinions as to why. I hope I answered your question.

[joonya187]

WOW! I haven't messed with whips & such for several years. Like any other non-ballistic weapon, the weilder has to have enough practice to determine effective ranges and such post-haste. As far as safety goes for beginners (especially the fellas), I'd only offer that a cup is definitely a good idea when practicing :eek:.

Used em primarily on the ranch, but I can appreciate how a charging assailant (not unlike a charging brangus steer) can be 'coerced' into alternate direction of travel.

Some nice workmanship there bullwhip.

[Anthony]

For those of you who see the bullwhip as a adjunct tool/weapon, what modern scenarios do you envision it being useful?

[QuarterBoreGunner]

what modern scenarios do you envision it being useful?Truthfully, I don't see it being useful (for me at least) as a tool other than for improving my reflexes and reaction skills.

And just being darn cool.

[Bullwhip]

The following is a post from another board written by a fella from Los Angeles. He purchased one of my Pocket Bulls and carries it regularly. His encounter occurred on February 20th of this year.

Please excuse me but I am really angry at the moment. Man... When you work in weights and measures, the kinds of people you run into. Sheesh! When a known drug addict comes into a yard with a total BS story and wanting money out if it. He just wouldn't leave. Telling us that a bale of OCC landed on his friend 45 minutes ago (then he changes it to "this morning"). Basically my manager told him to get out and never come on the property and thats when he started to get alittle physical. Then he backed off but then insisted the story was true. Manager started to call the police then he started to leave but started to walk back begging. Then we, 4 of us, just told him we don't believe him and he realized that he could not win. So thats when one of the guys said bye bye to him and he got upset and charged at us. Well guess what I had in my hand? My trusty old Pocket Bull and when he caught sight of it he stopped dead. Then he pretend to grab a gun in the back of his sweat pants. Gun in sweat pants? Well at least the way his was wearing them it seemed unlikely. Really loose. I like to think that he was checking himself if anything came out when he saw the whip. Thank you for letting me post this and if it gets zapped, I understand. I had to let my angry out. Have a good one!

Best Regards,
Jun

The whip may not have been deployed but just the mere sight of it caused the Bad Guy to re-think his course of action. I have always believed that a whip has a very strong intimidation factor connected to it. Mr. Jun's encounter may not prove anything but it does add a bit more weight to my theory. (Keep in mind that the whip he had was only four feet long!)

Of course, pulling a bullwhip when the BG is brandishing a firearm would be stupid. But if the BG is using threatening gestures and body language (like, say, an aggressive pan handler) and/or carrying a weapon such as a knife or club, etc. a whip can be a very useful and intimidating weapon. A guy with a knife would probably think twice about his prey if he had half a dozen cracks going off at his face. Especially if/when he gets "kissed" between the eyes. Meanwhile, the whipman would have a few feet of distance between him and the BG. (A six foot bullwhip can easily give you a ten foot range if you include the length of the fall, popper and your reach.)

If by that time you haven't vacated the situation and the attacker is inside the effective cracking range you can easily turn the handle around and use it as club or sap. Plus, having a back up weapon might be a good idea. ;)

(note: edit made to improve wording.)

[Anthony]

My sentiments exactly, Bullwhip!

Great story...thanks for sharing it!

I may post something more substantial later, but I have to run.

[XLMiguel]

Great thread. I used to horse around with whips as a kid, got pretty good with and 8' (snuff candles, cut paper, take stuff out of hand), 12' was something else, though.

I agree that a bullwhip can be pretty intimidating, very useful as a first strike, repelling boarders, or giving some aggressor reason to quesiton his choice of target. A lot of dummies have no idea how to deal with one, and if you know what you're doing, you can use it to sting, snare/tangle, or club. I also think that having a back-up weapon/Plan B is a good idea, 'cause if they get past the whip, it suggests that they're fairly determined and that they're likely to be a bit annoyed with you.

[FSCJedi]

Hey Bullwhip!

Ok, first of all, I appologize for it being a while since I've posted on this thread that everyone has so graciously kept alive. I did finally get my bullwhip and boy is it awesome. I've retained a lot of my skill with it from practicing years ago, and have gotten better even, I think.

Anyway, I've gotta problem. Maybe more of you out there can help me. I practice with it at school when I have some free time. I do, however, try to go out of my way and not attract attention. Not because I'm afraid of anything, but because I just don't want a million people asking me about it and judging me because of it.

So here's my deal. One of the "higher up's" assistants saw me practicing with it one day and told me I had to leave where I was practicing. I politely complied and moved to a different gym. About 2 weeks later, my boss calls me in and tells me I need to quit practicing with it because his boss (the "higher up") told him he "didn't like me using it". Now, I'm gonna comply until I can compile a good written reason as to why I should be allowed to continue my practice. What I can come up with so far is as follows:

1. I'm already a trusted employee of the college (assistant resident director of one of the dorms), so they know that I'm not going to start whipping people at random (as much as I would like to... :evil: ).

2. The bullwhip is used in philipino martial arts, and I practice Tae Kwon Do (yes, I know it's not philipino) and it's associated weapon arts freely on campus w/o anyone saying anything to me (this includes kendo, the bo, and the sai), so why should this martial art/weapon be penalized?

3. The whip is an extremely hard weapon to master enough to be able to hurt someone with. If an ignorant person picks up the whip, odds are he/she is going to hurt themself before they hurt me, if they can even get it to crack. However, if that same person picks up a baseball bat, they can do massive damage w/o having any previous knowledge of it. It's just a big club. Therefore, it is safer for me to have my whip lying around than it is for the baseball team to have their bats lying around, should one be attempted to be used as a weapon.

So can you all help me? I'd really like to have some links or hard evidence to support me in my letter/presentation/however I decide to present it. Stuff I'm looking for would be links to sites where they show that this is a martial arts weapon and an agricultural tool; history on the whip and it's non-violent uses; anything else you all think might support me. It really irritates me that this guy is doing this. From my history with him, he has a serious problem with anyone involved in Residence Life (which is what department I'm employed by), and I think he's just trying to push me and my boss around. That, and I mean absolutely no offense to anyone reading this, but he is very proud of his african-american heritage and I think he might see me as some kind of threat by learning how to use the bullwhip because of how it was used in the past.

Thanks for any help.

[Bullwhip]

FSCJedi,

Here is what I think you should do; don't fight it. Plain and simple. I suggest you comply to their wishes and take your practice sessions off campus. It is not worth fighting the administration and possibly creating a bad reputation for yourself.

Find a public park and continue your practice there. Whip cracking is not against the law so as long as you keep yourself at a safe distance from folks and stay aware there should not be a problem if an LEO comes a calling.

Also, don't worry about people asking you questions. Welcome them. Whips have received a bad reputation from the pervert crowd and it is up to responsible sport crackers to educate the public and rid the hobby of that stygma. I have people come over all the time and inquire about it. They are aprehensive at first but once I explain to them the physics of how and why a whip cracks and then do some demonstrations they usually become very interested. Of course, there are the idiots and teenagers that make smart ass comments from a distance but they are few and far between and easy to ignore.

Dress appropriately as well. Get yourself a nice western hat that you can wear during practice and not only will it help protect your, neck, ears and eyes from a stray crack, it will also put people's minds at ease. A cowboy with a bullwhip is easier for most folks to accept.

Congratulations on getting your new whip! Have fun and be careful.

[brownie0486]

Bullwhip,

You have a PM from me. I would like to order a pocket bull from you.

Thanks

Brownie

[FSCJedi]

Bullwhip,

Thanks for the reply. It is something I will definately consider. Now I just have to find a park w/ in walking distance of my school.

Now, on to a few more bullwhip related questions. How do you bullwhip carriers carry your larger bullwhips (>6' in length)? I bought one of these...
http://www.westernstageprops.com/miva/graphics/00000001/wa04lr.jpg
...but I can't seem to get my 8' whip to stay put very well. If any of you have one of these, how do you use the tie-downs? How tightly do you coil your whip? Do you put your handle through the carrier as well, or just let it hang at the side? Some kind of an explanation would be awesome if anyone can provide one.

Also, I know you are suppose to always use the same side of the whip to lash with (the side with the most bend). However, why don't we use other angles to lash with? Wouldn't that make quick angle change lashing easier and allow the whip to be used however you are holding it? I can use my whip fairly well, but I still consider myself a novice when it comes to the reasoning why we do what we do.

Thanks for any answers! :D

[Bullwhip]

Now, on to a few more bullwhip related questions. How do you bullwhip carriers carry your larger bullwhips (>6' in length)?

First off I'm afraid I can't help you in regards to the whip holster you purchased since I have never owned one. I have always made my own holsters using segments of belt straps and pull-the-dot fasteners. (Pull-the-dot snaps only open from one side when pulled so the whip can not push the holder open from it's own girth or movement while walking...or running.) The reason I make my own is so that I can custom fit the holster around a particular whip for a better fit and hold. I don't use any tie downs.

One trick you can do to your purchased holster is submerge the entire thing in water for half an hour. Then remove it, towel dry it off (this is very important since you don't want an undue amount of moisture sitting on your whip) and wrap it around your whip, coiled how you would carry it. Let it dry naturally for a day or two so that the leather will shrink and form around the whip. Make sure to apply leather dressing to the holster and the whip's coils where it was in the wet holster after everthing is dry. This is not a great fix but it does help quite a bit.

Another method I have heard of is gluing a piece of black rubber inside the holster which will help grip the whip into place.


How tightly do you coil your whip? Do you put your handle through the carrier as well, or just let it hang at the side? Some kind of an explanation would be awesome if anyone can provide one.

I carry mine on my left side with the handle secured inside the holster and the butt knot pointing forward. I coil the whip as tight enough to fit into the holster with the handle.

Letting the handle hang down out of the holster looks great in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' but isn't very practical since gravity will pull it down and out of the holster. Not too mention having that handle clock you in the thigh, shins or groin is a less than pleasant experience.

Also, I know you are suppose to always use the same side of the whip to lash with (the side with the most bend). However, why don't we use other angles to lash with? Wouldn't that make quick angle change lashing easier and allow the whip to be used however you are holding it? I can use my whip fairly well, but I still consider myself a novice when it comes to the reasoning why we do what we do.

Here is one of those things that might get you different answers depending on who you ask. I've heard others say that turning the whip over and using it against the curve works better. My answer is always use the whip with it's natural curve because using it against will "break the back" of the whip and leave you with a lifeless leather rope instead of a whip.

So when I grip the handle of the whip I always have the natural curve flowing downward. This goes for coiling the whip as well. Always coil it along the natural curve it comes with.

This doesn't mean that you must change your grip in order to do diagonal cracks and side arms and underhands and cross overs, etc. Keep your grip the same but start out with that downward curve. I do quick angle changes and multiple cracks all time using this technique and have never had a problem. Your accuracy will be much better as well if your whip maintains a primary tracking pattern.

This is why some folks prefer swivel handle whips because they can alter their grip at anytime and the thong always swivels the correct position.

[nomadboi]

Glad I stumbled across this thread. Nice whips!

I do a lot of theatrical and film stage combat stuff, and it's hard to beat good whipwork when it comes to flashy and impressive. Can't say it'd be my first choice for self defence, but they certainly are fun! Really can teach you how to use relaxation to get your desired effect with a tool instead of forcing it.

I'm also in Seattle. What part are you based in? How much do your whips run for?
I'd love to chat sometime.

-Kevin

action at nomadboi dot com

[brownie0486]

I just received my "pocket Bull" [ numbered #16 ] from Bullwhip.

It is 4 feet of braid/plaits and 2 feet of fall and popper totalling 6 feet plus ones reach.

It is very well made, stiff as it's new, and the best part about this is:

I was able to pop this bullwhip on the first attempt and almost everytime after that for an hour [ until my wife had heard enough in the house ].

If you are looking ofr someone who makes nice whips, in my opinion, "bullwhip" here makes an excellent product for the money.

I'm taking it to Ohio tomorrow for the weekend for the MBC knife training with Mike Janich. Got a few of the boys who want to see it during breaks and in the room after training ends in the evening.

A big thank you to "Bullwhip" here for turning me onto the smaller "Pocket Bull" he makes and delivering one to me befor I headed out of town.

Brownie

[FSCJedi]

For anyone interested or anyone that might have some info on it. Bullwhip, you might wanna chime in over there. You might know more than I do. Thanks.

Thread on The Rundown lashers/whips (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=899199#post899199)

[Hammerhead]

What do you whipper-snappers (sorry, I couldn't resist;) ) think about nylon whips?

I think that using a whip would be something interesting for a while, then I would probably put it away for a while, so a zero maintenance whip would be ideal.

Regards,
Hammerhead

[Bullwhip]

What do you whipper-snappers (sorry, I couldn't resist ) think about nylon whips?

I think that using a whip would be something interesting for a while, then I would probably put it away for a while, so a zero maintenance whip would be ideal.

Regards,
Hammerhead


IMO, the absolute best paracord whip maker around is Rhett Kelley of Cow Whips.com (http://www.cowwhips.com/). Last I heard he had a long waiting period but that could have changed. Give'em a shout.

You can also find some well made nylon whips at Western Stage Props (http://www.westernstageprops.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WSP&Product_Code=WNB&Category_Code=AB).