Bizarre round failure, any ideas?


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Danb1215
May 25, 2011, 04:16 PM
I've been meaning to post this for a while, but haven't had the pics. I was at the range about a month ago shooting a few guns when i attempted to go through a mag in my Gen 3 G19. About halfway through the magazine I pull the trigger, click and nothing happens. After waiting a few seconds I safely lower the gun and notice it isn't fully in battery (maybe 85-90% of the way. I drop the mag and rack the slide and out comes a case with no bullet, and no powder anywhere to be seen.
I assumed it was some sort of squib and then I noticed the primer has not been hit. Upon further inspection I can see the bullet itself is in the chamber. So I disassemble the gun and a friendly range member who was equally puzzled helped me tap the bullet out of the chamber. I've attached the relevant pics showing:
1. The barrel with bullet inside, notice the copper on the ramp, thats never happened before.
2. The brass with unfired primer.
3. The inside of the case, brass seems to be with spec
4. The bullet with the copper jacket scored off about 1/4 of the bullet below there it would be crimped.

The round was the ultra cheap federal 9mm. I assume the bullet was just poorly seated and was thrown into the chamber when the slide attempted to go forward. How far off base am I?

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kingpin008
May 25, 2011, 04:42 PM
You know, when I clicked on this thread I wasn't expecting anything super bizarre, but that's 100% nutty. I've never seen something like that, either on my own or on gun boards. If you hadn't posted pics, I don't know if I'd have believed it.

The only way I can think of it happening is how you describe, but that would have to be a one in a million occurrence. It'll be interesting to hear what some more experienced folks have to say.

1KPerDay
May 25, 2011, 05:02 PM
Like you, the only thing I can think of is the case was oversized enough that the bullet was loose and then the force of being chambered was enough to drive the bullet into the barrel a bit (though this seems highly unlikely). And if the case were oversized enough, it may hold the slide out of battery and prevent a primer strike.
Still seems crazy to me

Ruger44mag
May 25, 2011, 05:20 PM
That’s just plain weird. Like (1kperday) I would guess the case was oversized and bullet was not seated well enough.

bluetopper
May 25, 2011, 05:25 PM
If the primer was hit I would say the cartridge was assembled without any powder, but the primer not dented????? I don't know.

Doogledog
May 25, 2011, 05:29 PM
Weird

doorman
May 25, 2011, 05:31 PM
Were these some sort of reloads where the case was belled and the bullet somewhat seated without a powder charge? I guess the force of the slide going into battery was enough to kick the bullet out some but the belled case kept the slide from going completely into battery.

Danb1215
May 25, 2011, 06:00 PM
Not reloads, the round in question was the cheapo federal champion 115 grain FMJ. The mouth of the case doesn't seem to be over sized, maybe a bit loose but not substantially.

1KPerDay
May 25, 2011, 06:01 PM
It may have gotten "resized" a bit by the chamber.

TH3180
May 25, 2011, 07:12 PM
That's messed up.

Kendal Black
May 25, 2011, 07:37 PM
I've subscribed to the thread, because I'm puzzled too. Two or three things would have to be wrong at once for that to happen. Wow.

I have a long view theory, which unfortunately does nothing to explain your misfire in a way that solves it. Everyone's quality is going to pot, because gov't is vampiring half the money out of the economy and imposing regulations about everything. Everything. And rulebooks are a hidden cost on everyone, to comply. It takes time and effort, which equal money.

When you force production costs to a new low level you get new problems. It's guaranteed so.

No crimp and no powder? That is not a complete explanation, but it's the way my mind is working on the problem at present. It's a three pipe problem, and I don't even own a funny hat. :confused:

Sunray
May 25, 2011, 07:45 PM
"...How far off base am I?..." Probably not at all. Cartridge slipped through QC after not being loaded properly.

Kendal Black
May 25, 2011, 07:46 PM
Could you post a better picture of the bullet?

Danb1215
May 25, 2011, 08:05 PM
Will do, it'll just be an hour or so before I get to a camera better then my phone that took the original.

SimplyChad
May 25, 2011, 09:10 PM
Wow got me stumped

DoubleTapDrew
May 25, 2011, 10:06 PM
Happens occasionally with handloads when a case is a little big and no crimp is applied, but that usually happens (bullet comes out of the case and powder spills out) when I'm pawing through the bucket they are in. Never had it happen on factory ammo.
Are you sure the firing pin released? It shouldn't have done that if the slide wasn't fully into battery but I guess it could happen if it was really close.

danez71
May 25, 2011, 10:19 PM
Seems that if the bullet was that loose in the case the OP would have noticed it while loading the mag.

Also it seems if it was that loose all of the jacket would still be on the lead.

I dunno... weird

How far down the barrel did it go?

Kendal Black
May 25, 2011, 10:25 PM
Okay, gun not into battery, that explains no firing pin dimple. (Gaston Glock, good on ye.)

Pulled bullet? Hmm... Awaiting picture. That's very strange.

No bang or flash, and no spilled powder either? That seems to me conclusive evidence. The strange thing the dog did in the night, Watson. That is the clue. It did not bark!

While you have your camera out, could you give us a closeup of the case headstamp and the box lot number?

Lacking a better look at the bullet, I doubt this turkey came from Federal, at all. Bubba reloaded range ammo?

Danb1215
May 25, 2011, 10:31 PM
It wasn't far in the barrel at all, it was very easily tapped out, but wouldn't just shake out. Definitely not a reload, 100% out of the federal box, which I discarded before the range trip as I transferred all the rounds into a plastic ammo container. It was the only 9mm I had with me that day and the headstamp is .F C. 9mm Luger as with all the other federal champion ammo. Haven't had any luck getting a better picture of the bullet.

Kendal Black
May 25, 2011, 11:06 PM
I need better pictures. Otherwise I can be of no help at all. If it was shaved in and never crimped, and there was no powder behind it, I could explain your malfunction, and I would know to whom some language, articulate but well selected, might be addressed, but it doesn't look like a Federal bullet. Your picture looks like a cast slug with a grease wax ring. That is the clue I am starting from. That is why I want a better picture.

Why can't I find a bullet that looks like that in Federal's catalog? I think you got rooked, pal, and whoever sold you cartridges last time, you should think about that next time.

Owen Sparks
May 25, 2011, 11:15 PM
No powder spilled out?

dcdub
May 25, 2011, 11:16 PM
This is indeed an odd one. I almost exclusively shoot Federal and have never had a single issue of any kind.

What would have caused the gun to not be in battery? If the previous round fired and ejected properly, the OP thought the next round was fine, pulled the trigger and got a click (striker released), it must have been in battery up until pulling the trigger, no? If the round failed to ignite completely, the gun would have been 100% out of battery. However the OP said it was 85-90% in battery, so there must have been SOME sort of ignition, right??

Heretic
May 25, 2011, 11:16 PM
Yea, looks like somebody sold re-loads as new. I been screwed too.

TH3180
May 25, 2011, 11:23 PM
I have a question. What color is the primmer? To me in the picture it looks brass colored. I thought all factory Federal rounds are silver. I could be wrong on both things, just a thought. It is really hard to tell from the picture.

Apocalypse-Now
May 25, 2011, 11:24 PM
I assume the bullet was just poorly seated and was thrown into the chamber when the slide attempted to go forward. How far off base am I?

you're correct. it happens.

QC on guns and ammo have both gone down due to increased sales stemming from the obama hysteria.

i got a box of 147gr 9mm HST with an upside down bullet in the shell lol:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/champop1911/IMAG0223.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/champop1911/IMAG0224.jpg

Kendal Black
May 25, 2011, 11:27 PM
This is indeed an odd one. I almost exclusively shoot Federal and have never had a single issue of any kind.

What would have caused the gun to not be in battery? If the previous round fired and ejected properly, the OP thought the next round was fine, pulled the trigger and got a click (striker released), it must have been in battery up until pulling the trigger, no? If the round failed to ignite completely, the gun would have been 100% out of battery. However the OP said it was 85-90% in battery, so there must have been SOME sort of ignition, right??

The way I play it out is this: The slide never closed fully. Thanks be to Gaston, there was no firing out of battery. There was, significantly, no mark on the primer. Good gun.

The deponent sayeth, there was no bang or spilled powder. I think the whole cartridge fell apart when raised and chambered, which points me to a certain country but, there is no need to name names, seguero que si!? For this is the high road.

Danb1215
May 26, 2011, 02:51 AM
again this was a sealed box of federal from WM. The bullet is copper jacketed, but the jacket has been scored off of about half of the area below the crimp.

Hk Dan
May 26, 2011, 08:43 AM
It's not that unusual at all. I've had it happen when the bullet wasn't properly swaged to size. It loads in the case due to belling, but when it's chambered it lodges in the rifling. When you rack it, the bullet pulls out, the powder dumps into the frame, and the case ejects.

No reason for alarm--you wouldn't even have been able to load another round behind it, so you were in utterly no danger at all.

1KPerDay
May 26, 2011, 11:57 AM
That makes more sense :)

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