[jeeptim]

Have been reloading for a while and as of late i am seeing reloaders with different problems and a lot of talk of bumping the shoulder back or fwd comes up.
Now i have loaded well over 20,000 rounds and only a few trouble rounds
I load .223, .308, 30-06 and 7.62x39 each caliber for two to three guns
Not loading match grade just alot of good low cost ammo all works well.
Now the resizing and decapping I set my lee die to hit the shell holder at the bump in the top of the stroke firm contact and stroke away.
have only had a few that wouldent chamber a few out of 20,000
Trimming cripming and all that's good just want to understand the how and why's
I think! and good chance I'm wrong. bumping is to obtain the snuggest fit in the action, and to make this happen adjust your die by either using a head space gauge and a fired round or loading up sized cases in that action you are loading for and adjust from their.
And most importantly is it worth it for a guy that just wants to go plinking with his son and buddy's.
Thanx

[rg1]

For multiple calibers Hornady's Headspace Gauge set is economical and works very well for adjusting your sizing dies to push the shoulder back a "measured" amount. Measure a few fired cases from your rifle to get the length of the shoulder then adjust your size die to push the shoulder back the amount you want. Here's about the best article I've seen on using the Hornady Headspace Gauge set:
http://www.inlandshooters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99&sid=fd1cb67fa27b2917dcd74ed0a29fd314
The set can be bought at many sporting good sites such as MidwayUsa. The main benefit, other than avoiding loaded rounds that won't chamber, is to lengthen case life and to prevent case stretching on each firing which can lead to insipient case separations with leaking gas and a separated case left stuck in the chamber. A good extra step for safety.

[Walkalong]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7332391#post7332391

[fguffey]

Shoulder bump, again, bump sounds like an accident, I do not accidentally get the shoulder where I want it, I place it exactly where I want it. There are reloaders that have presses they believe 'BUMPS' when the ram is raised, others do not have a clue if there press bumps, most have presses that jam, cram, bind or locks up. I have presses that jam, cram lock-up and never bump, I have presses that bump, all my bump type presses bump twice, as in bump-bump.

Bump? to the extreme, try bumping the shoulder back .121 thousands as in sizing a 30/06 case to 8mm57, bump? that is an accident because the shoulder of the 30/06 did not move, for the few that measure before and after know the shoulder of the 30/06 became part of the neck and part of the case body became part of the shoulder, had the location of the shoulder of the 30/06 been located with a scribe the reloader would have a visual location as to what happened, those that move shoulders forward and back call it case forming.

The companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, I form first then fire, setting up my press is a matter of moving the information from the chamber to the press with a transfer, I can use a dial caliper, dial indicator, a depth micrometer, I prefer the feeler gage, I can size/form cases for short chambers (.012 thousands shorter than a minimum length case/full length sized), I can size/form cases for long chambers (.016 thousands longer than a minimum length/full length sized case casae). That would include everything in between.

Again grinding a die and or shell holder is not necessary, Redding competition shell holder are just nice to have and only go one way, I use the feeler gage, does not mean I do not have a picture of my micrometers and gages that weighs 400 pounds, it just means my feeler gages are equal to a transfer and or standard, and I do not bump shoulders, my shoulder are erased, they do not move because by design my dies form cases, some better than others.

And when I form a 30 Gibbs, 7mm57, 8mm57, 308 Win or 257 Roberts the case has no memory of ever having been a 30/06, my favorite case is military with no mention of 30/06, the different year and arsenal stamp makes sorting brass after tumbling flawless.

F. Guffey

[gamestalker]

If all your wanting is standard shooting ammunition, and if what your doing now is functioning without problems, don't worry about it. But if you are trying to work up sub MOA groups, necking your brass and then using a guage when the shoulder needs bumping will help in your quest.

[murf]

i think what fguffy is telling you is to put it where you want it, then measure the die-to-shellholder gap with a feeler so you can repeat as necessary. a very good idea imop. just use the same shellholder, die and press again.

murf

[NCsmitty]

Your cases are your gauges, and it's not that hard to get a good fit to your chamber with a little practice.
In extreme situations, or when setting up for fireforming wildcats, false shoulders can be helpful, and all it takes is some common sense.

fguffey has his methods that work, but I don't do it that way.

The only time that I use a headspace gauge is when I'm reaming a chamber on a rebarrel or refit, or checking a rifle that's new to me.

Some folks spend a lot of money on different types of gauges, only to rarely or never use them.
For those who feel that they cannot reload without them, that's fine, but for me, getting back to basics is what it's all about.


NCsmitty

[fguffey]

and I use head space gages when I am shooting head space gages, and that is never! I shoot loaded ammo, new/minimum length AND the difference between the two, the length of the chamber from the bolt face and shoulder of the chamber and the minimum length case from the head of the case to the shoulder of the case IS!!!! head space. AGAIN, one more time, I determine head space first with trashy old home made tools, nothing to brag about, trashy looking but affordable, Free.

Or I shoot reloads, it is mindless to size to minimum length IF the reloagrt can transfer measurements from the chamber to the die, again with the versatile full length sizer die, press and shell holder when combined with the companion too to the press, the feeler gage, I can size cases from .012 thousands shorter than a minimum length size case to a practical .016 thousands longer than a minimum length/full length sized case, that is 28 options without a Redding competition shell holder, grinding the bottom of the die or top of the shell holder.

F. Guffey

[918v]

If you want your brass to last twice as long, bump minimally. Is it really so hard to back-off the die a quarter turn?

[fguffey]

918V, I am sure that makes seance to everyone but me, backing the die out 1/4 turn is .017 + thousands,, if the reloader follows those instructions at best they are neck sizing and at worst the body of the case could began to be sized, not a problem for most but with my dies when the body of the case starts to be sized, the shoulder of the case if forced out and the length of the case from the head of the case to the shoulder increases then comes the difficulty in chambering.

Again, I have a M1917 Enfield with .016 thousands head space, backing the die out 1/4 turn is a waste of my time, I am not that hard headed, when sizing cases for that rifle chamber, I gap the die off the shell holder .014 thousands, I have another old rifle with .010 thousands head space, cases fired in that chamber furnishes all the cases I need for all the other 30/06 chambers, I could mindlessly back the die out or I could mindlessly screw the die down a wild guesstimate of a turn, or by knowing the distance from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber I can size the case to off set the effects of head space, most, with a very few exceptions, fire first then attempt to determine the length of the chamber, again I determine the length of the chamber first. goes something like this, it goes from the chamber to the press and back to the chamber.

The amount of money a reoloader wants to pile up on his bench/in the tool box(es) is up to the individual, some have a vested interest in selling tools, I do not.

F. Guffey

[918v]

If you back out the die a quarter turn, the resulting round will not chamber assuming it was headspaced properly.

So then you have to turn the die in a lill bit at a time until the case chambers.

That way you get minimum sizing and maximum case life.

I never said a quarter turn is a cureall, but imagine if you could close the bolt on such a round?

[918v]

Again, I have a M1917 Enfield with .016 thousands head space, backing the die out 1/4 turn is a waste of my time, I am not that hard headed, when sizing cases for that rifle chamber, I gap the die off the shell holder .014 thousands, I have another old rifle with .010 thousands head space, cases fired in that chamber furnishes all the cases I need for all the other 30/06 chambers, I could mindlessly back the die out or I could mindlessly screw the die down a wild guesstimate of a turn, or by knowing the distance from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber I can size the case to off set the effects of head space, most, with a very few exceptions, fire first then attempt to determine the length of the chamber, again I determine the length of the chamber first. goes something like this, it goes from the chamber to the press and back to the chamber.

You are still overworking the brass. I would set up the brass for each individual rifle.