HK Owners - What About The Pistols Do You Like?


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Cards81fan
May 26, 2011, 05:43 PM
Okay, I know it may appear to be inflammatory, or provocative, but this post comes from my naivety of the HK pistols. Please don't consider it an affront.

I have read a lot about how they are overpriced, even to the point of attempting to be exclusive. I wouldn't say they are overpriced personally, as other pistols exist in that price range (from SIG to 1911s, even the XDm Compact approaches that).

And I have read owners vehemently defend the prices on them due to their superior design, engineering, and ergonomics. What I haven't read is what makes them better? Is it chamber support? The fit and finish tolerances? The textures or such used on the controls? For example, I can say I like my XD over a Glock or M&P as I prefer the grip angle, trigger, grip safety over the other others. The Glock is a fine weapon, but stock sights and grip angle do not work for me.

Again, I am just curious what specifically and tangibly you like in your weapon that caused you to pick the HK. I appreciate your perspective.

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JustinJ
May 26, 2011, 05:56 PM
I think part of the reason for the cost of HK guns is the fact that they do so much research and development. They are an extremely innovative company and even when they release new designs they do such a great job of testing before hand that you rarely see issues even with new models. How much did it really cost for Glock to change from Gen 3 to Gen 4? Or FNX to FNP?

Personally I feel HK makes the highest quality weapons in the world and their use by militaries and spec ops all over the world are evidence of this. They are both extremely reliable and extremely durable. Their finish is nearly indestructible on top of extremely high quality metals. Glocks have great finishes on top of poor metal. Compare an HK MR556 or 416 to a colt and you can see the difference in quality and detail. Not to knock Colt but they are no HK. Is the extra cost worth it when other extremely good guns can be had for significantly cheaper that are "good enough" for most appliations? Thats a call for each individual to make himself.

Much of the bad rep of HK is do to the fact that they don't cater to the civilian market, ecspecially with rifles, but this has more to do with American import laws and German export laws. They are now making a few firearms in the US so hopefully more of their line will become available without a Sig like drop in quality.

HK Jake
May 26, 2011, 06:14 PM
That's an excellent question!

Honestly, I was a S&W guy until the first time I handled a P30; the ergonomics of the P30/HK45 are vastly superior (in my opinion, of course) to any other handgun on the market. I didn't come to this conclusion lightly, either; I handled and fired ~40 handguns to get here. The gun feels like it was made for my hand, and if it seems a bit to small or a bit too large, the back and side straps can be swapped. (There are 3 different sizes). I liken it to a glove that fits perfectly; it just feels right, ya know? Not to mention that it's the only handgun that after picking it up and pointing it straight to check the sight picture, I align perfectly without making any adjustments! :cool:

After falling in love with the ergonomics, I decided to a good bit of research on HK and the P30. It's very difficult to find anything bad to say about them, the lone exception always being the price. They are reliable, they are durable, they shoot great, they handle recoil better than any comparable handgun on the market (which is probably the greatest thing about them), they will eat pretty much anything you throw at them, etc., not to mention it's also a beautiful firearm. I have yet to find anything I don't like about it, and I'm actually about to buy a second P30 chambered in .40 S&W.

On to the price... Yes, they are expensive, but they aren't deliberately overpriced; a small portion of it has to do with how weak the Dollar is against the Euro. You get what you pay for in this case, though.

My family has been in the car business for over 60 years, so I liken most everything to cars. I look at HK as I look at BMW or Mercedes-Benz; anything less than excellence and near perfect precision is unacceptable. (It just so happens BMW vehicles tend to have less issues than any make of car).

If you have any other questions for me, or anything you'd like me to go into more detail on, just let me know! I hope this helps. :)

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab127/AZ_Hawkeye/HKP30.jpg

Benzene
May 26, 2011, 07:52 PM
...an HK45. I would have preferred real night sights, though. I found mine to be accurate, reliable, enjoyable to shoot (recoil-wise), fit in the hand...

balance 740
May 26, 2011, 08:32 PM
The main reason for me, is that I shoot it better than most other pistols I have tried. But I've noticed lots of small things on the design of my P30 that make me get the impression that quality was their main focus.

I think they do a better job of testing their firearms before releasing them into the market too. Consider how many models of pistols, and variations of those models H&K is currently producing right now (USP, USPc, P30, P2000, P2000sk, HK45, HK45c, and variants 1 through 9 on each of those models, as well as the option of a manual safety on some models), and all of these different models/variants seem to work just as well as each other. Then consider how some gun companies only make one new design every few years, and then have multiple design issues with those pistols that lead to design flaws and recalls by using people as their testers.

I like my P30 because it works, it shoots good in my hands, and it is a quality pistol. The same reason I would have liked the cheaper brands if they worked as well in my hands. I'm no fanboy either, I happen to like other brands as well, but this one pistol had all of the features I was looking for at the time. I could care less what is written on the slide.

Stevie-Ray
May 26, 2011, 08:32 PM
I liked the way mine (USP45C) felt so natural in my hand, picking it up and quickly pointing at a subject, the sights cleared NOW! By contrast, with the SIG P220C that was it's competition, I seemed to have to fiddle with it to clear the sights. At $759, it wasn't exactly a fortune, but wasn't a bargain either. As it is, it never seemed to please me the way it did before I shot it. Being a 1911 guy, I figured I wouldn't be truly happy without a perfect 3" 1911. The Kimber UCDP I bought a couple years later completely supplanted the HK, as it was far superior in every way; weight, size, recoil, accuracy, aesthetics, etc. I still regard the HK as a fine weapon; it's reliability and workmanship are pretty much flawless. But it's been relegated to the safe for about 8 years now. Silly me, I thought I needed a double-action auto.:rolleyes: If I had it to do over again knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't own an HK. That is YET, as I'd still someday like to have a P7.

Moral of my story is always rent before you buy, if possible!

BlackCoffee
May 26, 2011, 08:35 PM
Tested, proven, quality, innovative.


One exaMple: the USP has had double spring recoil for decades prior to Glock. With HK no corner is cut to reduce price. I don't mind paying for it since my life may depend on it. Now bean counters who love glocks price won't show up to my funeral, will they.

Also like FN and Sigs. glock is a fine range weapon when nobody is shooting back.

IMTHDUKE
May 26, 2011, 08:40 PM
What's not to like?

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/P30.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996512363.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996520734.jpg

HK Jake
May 26, 2011, 08:51 PM
...an HK45. I would have preferred real night sights, though. I found mine to be accurate, reliable, enjoyable to shoot (recoil-wise), fit in the hand...
Just want to point out that even though the sights on newer HKs are yellow, they aren't night sights. The point is to capture any light source available to brighten the sights; the sights do this remarkably. Living in a large city, I don't require night sights as there is always some ambient light which keeps the sights lit up, not to mention I'd always have my flashlight out if I had my gun out at night.

Edit: You can of course get night sights from HK.

nwilliams
May 26, 2011, 08:53 PM
HK's just work and work well. You get what you pay for when you buy an HK and you can rest assured that it's going to go bang when you pull the trigger.

I've owned dozens upon dozens of handguns over the years and out of all them the ones that I've been most impressed with every time have been the HK's.

My favorite 45ACP of all time (yes even more than the 1911) is my HK45C. In my collection 1911's come and go I just can't seem to settle on one but the HK45C will always have a permanent place in my collection.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/HK45C/HK45c-4.jpg

DammitBoy
May 26, 2011, 09:01 PM
I like the quality and the durability. HK's are built like tanks. Really accurate tanks.

usp9
May 26, 2011, 10:00 PM
...what specifically and tangibly you like in your weapon that caused you to pick the HK.

My first HK was a KH dated stainless USPc that I bought primarily because it is absolutely beautiful, the price was good (relatively) and I wondered what the hype was all about. After the years of shooting this gun, I've come to really appreciate how it handles recoil. It is easy to shoot accurately. The controls feel just right, in just the right place, take the right amount of effort. If the gun has a flaw, I haven't found it yet.

My favorit HK is the P2000sk because it is so completely competent. It does every thing the bigger duty size guns do, but in a smaller, lighter package. Again, the controls, the ergonomics, the innovative adjustable grips all work together and meld into a flawless package. That is what seperate HKs from other guns... other guns that are excellent in almost every other way, but seem to have some factor that doesn't work (for me at least).

I've picked up several other HKs over the years and each one has delivered superb reliability. The pistols are robust, exhibit high quality throughout and seem very user friendly.

If I had to own only one gun, or were sent to war tomorrow, I'd want an HK. Other guns are very good, but my HKs have my confidence, fit and feel the best.

marksman13
May 26, 2011, 10:52 PM
I don't get the love affair with HKs. I've shot a few and passed up some great deals on HK pistols in the past. They just don't feel right, and though I know it is my purely subjective opinion, they are ugly as mud. The lone exception to that being the P7. They may be built like tanks, but they feel like them too. Again the exception being the P7, and also the P2000. I feel the same way about the new FN pistols. They just feel like big, clunky, top-heavy bricks. I'll take my Glocks any day of the week.

doc540
May 26, 2011, 11:32 PM
I practice and shoot matches with a 1911.

The HK controls are intuitive.

It's dependable, accurate, and high cap.

And it conceals well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/doc540/Guns/HK%20USPC%2040/DSCN4221-1.jpg

nwilliams
May 27, 2011, 12:43 AM
they are ugly as mud. The lone exception to that being the P7. They may be built like tanks, but they feel like them too. Again the exception being the P7
I feel just the opposite, the P7 to me is the ugly duckling of the HK world, although I do think it's a marvel of engineering and one hell of a nice gun. I will admit that I think the more recent HK handguns (P30, P2000, HK45/C) are lot more attractive than the USP.

HK Jake
May 27, 2011, 12:59 AM
I feel just the opposite, the P7 to me is the ugly duckling of the HK world, although I do think it's a marvel of engineering and one hell of a nice gun. I will admit that I think the more recent HK handguns (P30, P2000, HK45/C) are lot more attractive than the USP.

Haha, I feel the same way. The P7 looks a bit too much like a Glock for my tastes! :cool:

marksman13
May 27, 2011, 01:30 AM
Different strokes for different folks. I will say if I find a P2000 at a good price I'll probably add one to the collection one day.

helitack32f1
May 27, 2011, 01:54 AM
That's an excellent question!

Honestly, I was a S&W guy until the first time I handled a P30; the ergonomics of the P30/HK45 are vastly superior (in my opinion, of course) to any other handgun on the market. I didn't come to this conclusion lightly, either; I handled and fired ~40 handguns to get here. The gun feels like it was made for my hand, and if it seems a bit to small or a bit too large, the back and side straps can be swapped. (There are 3 different sizes). I liken it to a glove that fits perfectly; it just feels right, ya know? Not to mention that it's the only handgun that after picking it up and pointing it straight to check the sight picture, I align perfectly without making any adjustments! :cool:

After falling in love with the ergonomics, I decided to a good bit of research on HK and the P30. It's very difficult to find anything bad to say about them, the lone exception always being the price. They are reliable, they are durable, they shoot great, they handle recoil better than any comparable handgun on the market (which is probably the greatest thing about them), they will eat pretty much anything you throw at them, etc., not to mention it's also a beautiful firearm. I have yet to find anything I don't like about it, and I'm actually about to buy a second P30 chambered in .40 S&W.

On to the price... Yes, they are expensive, but they aren't deliberately overpriced; a small portion of it has to do with how weak the Dollar is against the Euro. You get what you pay for in this case, though.

My family has been in the car business for over 60 years, so I liken most everything to cars. I look at HK as I look at BMW or Mercedes-Benz; anything less than excellence and near perfect precision is unacceptable. (It just so happens BMW vehicles tend to have less issues than any make of car).

If you have any other questions for me, or anything you'd like me to go into more detail on, just let me know! I hope this helps. :)

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab127/AZ_Hawkeye/HKP30.jpg
I really wish people would quit using cars as analogies for guns. You seem to imply that HK's are equivalent to BMW's. In that case I would have to say that Glocks must be equivalent to Hyundais because for the money you get as good or better gun with much better reliability and they are far less expensive. Your assertion that BMW's have less problems than any other cars seems to overlook Hyundai, Toyota, Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln, Porsche, Buick and Acura.

HK Jake
May 27, 2011, 02:01 AM
I really wish people would quit using cars as analogies for guns. You seem to imply that HK's are equivalent to BMW's. In that case I would have to say that Glocks must be equivalent to Hyundais because for the money you get as good or better gun with much better reliability and they are far less expensive. Your assertion that BMW's have less problems than any other cars seems to overlook Hyundai, Toyota, Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln, Porsche, Buick and Acura.
Hmm, I could go with, "Opinions are like...," or "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."

Can you prove to me that Glocks are more reliable than HKs? [No.]

You can make whatever assertions you like; you are entitled to your opinion as we all are.

Wait, are you saying Hyundais are as good as or better than BMWs? :eek: Sure, they are decent cars, but really? I've driven and tested at least one model of nearly every make of car (for this example, I've driven every Hyundai model made since 2004 and most BMW models), and I can say with certainty that there is no Hyundai that stacks up to any BMW. (Speaking of Hyundai, I learned to drive stick on a Tiburon back when I was 12 or 13! :D )

SIGLBER
May 27, 2011, 02:11 AM
Total reliability, target grade accuracy, built like freakin M1 tanks, actually like the mag release, a choice of several different trigger types, on my HK USP .45c great grip ergo's. Dislikes? Price of mags. Bit expensive for a polymer gun. But only you can decide if that is an issue. Mostly positives. Have heard bad things about their customer service. Mine have never broken so can't comment on that. Actually lately I've been able to find them cheaper than SIG's if I look around a bit.

nwilliams
May 27, 2011, 04:10 AM
In that case I would have to say that Glocks must be equivalent to Hyundais because for the money you get as good or better gun with much better reliability and they are far less expensive.

Apples to oranges. The Glock (any Glock) and the HK (any HK) are two completely different animals in every way other than the fact that the both have polymer frames. If you are comparing Glocks to HK's then you might as well compare 1911's to Beretta 92's.

As for price. Some guns cost more to make than others, who would have guessed! Dare I say it, the same is true with cars.:uhoh:

I'm not saying that HK's aren't overpriced, I think they probably are. However if I were a betting man I would wager that HK's are also more expensive to manufacture than Glocks simply because of the difference in complexity between the two guns. The Glock is a pretty simple and not overly complicated design that hasn't really change in over thirty years. HK handguns have more parts, require more complex machining and probably more man hours to manufacture than a Glock. Also the companies are very different, HK seems to invest a lot into research and development, whereas Glock seems to just stick with what it knows best. Finally there is the simple fact that Glock sells a larger volume of handguns to the civilian market than HK does, I wouldn't be surprised if for every ten Glock owners there is one HK owner. However HK's primary market has never been the civilian one so I imagine that's probably why we suck and they hate us.

Calistyle
May 27, 2011, 05:04 AM
I chose hk because I'm not a tinkerer who wants to invest a lot of time into high end 1911s. God those are great guns and sexy to boot but I wanted a production pistol that was of high quality and low maintenance. After shooting glocks, smiths, cz, a ruger, and a couple others I don't remember I settled on the very comfortable-for-me hks, of which I have a few. I think all gun manufacturers produce some quality pistols. I just happen to like what I feel to be very precise machining on the hks. Also I happen to find them uber sexy. I mean uber. I will admit I liked the sig p229 I handled but the rear placement of the slide lock was a little weird for me in my admitted short time with it.

I also like kahrs. I have a pm9 but a small percentage of the time it will fail to feed properly if I slingshot it. Yes, I am aware that kahr recommends not doing that. I love it for the slim profile. In contrast I have never had an issue with the function of any of my hks. I realize that all pistols have the capacity to malfunction but I don't to worry about it too much with my hks.

ugaarguy
May 27, 2011, 05:14 AM
Outside of four years in the USAF, and 6 months trying something else out, my work experience for the last 11 years has been in hunting & fishing retail; primarily dealing with the sale of handguns & EBRs. I don't own an HK myself, but I can't fault them (I can pick a few nits). I'd like to address a few issues / comments brought up in the thread.

Price - Yes, they're in the same price range as SIGs & 1911s, but you get forged steel or forged aluminum frames on those guns for the price of a polymer frame HK. Counter point that is that HK has the most nicely finished and fitted polymer frames I've seen in the industry. For many people that alone is worth the added price.

Reliability / Durability - HKs tend to be extremely reliable, and this is backed up by a good friend who manages a local range which rents a wide variety of firearms. I have another enthusiast friend who's put countless rounds of .45 Super through his unmodified HK .45.

Ergos / Options - The USPs don't fit my hand worth anything, but the HK .45 / P2000 / P30 are great - to each his own though. HK also offers a fire control group to fit almost anyone's preference. The various with or w/o thumb safety, with or w/o mag disconnect combos on the S&W M&Ps are the only thing that even comes close.

I shoot 1911s better than I shoot anything else. If I was forced to switch to another pistol I'd be torn between an M&P .45 and an HK .45. The M&P is an excellent pistol, but the little extras on the HK .45 might make it worth it to me to spend the extra money (if SIG put the X5 SAO thumb safety on a 229 E2 it would be a real contender, but that's only a dream). I would have to get used to the HK mag release though.

I'm an admitted 1911 enthusiast, but from an objective view point I think there's much to like with HK pistols, and very little not to like.

RX-178
May 27, 2011, 05:52 AM
I got my USP45 just as the HK45s were coming out.

I was pretty impressed by the HK45, but I was young(er), and the sting of the recently sunsetted AWB was still too fresh for me to want to put my money on anything that didn't hold more than 10 rounds.

I spent a full $1000 of my savings into a USP 45 Tactical, and that was the first handgun I ever purchased myself, and having just gotten my TX CHL at age 21. It's still the best handgun in my inventory today, and I carry it almost religiously.

Dobe
May 27, 2011, 11:36 AM
What I like about HKs?
When I purchase and HK, I generally know that I can pick up that handgun, go straight to the range, and it will perform the way it was intended to perform. Every part and plastic is of high grade with what appears to be no low-bids.

There are many handgun manufactures, which produce a series of handguns (Gen 4), only to beta test them on the shooting public. HK tends to spend a lot of time and effort on R&D and field testing. You really know that when you have an HK, that it is well thought out, and designed for the task.

I have found the eight HK handguns I own to be reliable (not totally, but nothing is), durable, accurate, and very easy to shoot. The HK45 and HK P30 are also among the most ergonomic handguns on the market.

Nice guns

helitack32f1
May 27, 2011, 12:24 PM
Hmm, I could go with, "Opinions are like...," or "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."

Can you prove to me that Glocks are more reliable than HKs? [No.]

You can make whatever assertions you like; you are entitled to your opinion as we all are.

Wait, are you saying Hyundais are as good as or better than BMWs? :eek: Sure, they are decent cars, but really? I've driven and tested at least one model of nearly every make of car (for this example, I've driven every Hyundai model made since 2004 and most BMW models), and I can say with certainty that there is no Hyundai that stacks up to any BMW. (Speaking of Hyundai, I learned to drive stick on a Tiburon back when I was 12 or 13! :D )
I did not say Glocks are more reliable than HK's, I said using your analogy, that is the conclusion I would have to come to because Hyundai's are cheaper and far more reliable than BMW's.

If I had to sum it all up, I was saying that your assertion that BMW's have less problems than other cars was total BS. All the car companies I listed have better histories of reliability, especially when it comes to powertrain dependability.

Whether or not BMW's are better than Hyundai's is an opinion matter and it depends on what you are looking for. If your are looking for relatively inexpensive cars, then, yes, Hyundais are better than BMW's.

Cards81fan
May 27, 2011, 12:29 PM
HK also offers a fire control group to fit almost anyone's preference.

Actually like the mag release

I've come to really appreciate how it handles recoil. It is easy to shoot accurately. The controls feel just right, in just the right place, take the right amount of effort. ...the innovative adjustable grips...

innovative.... One example: the USP has had double spring recoil for decades prior to Glock.

their use by militaries and spec ops all over the world

I appreciate everyone's replies! The comments I quoted above are great and give me insight into the tangible things people like about these guns. I mean, I have read about "it just feels right," and that is valid for sure, but always wondered what features actually made it feel so right? For example, some say Glocks just feel right to them, but they don't to me and I can articulate that my small hands do not like the larger grip on anything aside from the 26/27 size (I don't like ANY double stack .45 for that matter).

Back to HKs. I never knew the side panels were interchangeable on an HK - that is a cool feature without having to interchange a full set of grips. This is the kind of info I was looking to gather. Thanks again guys and keep 'em coming.

HGUNHNTR
May 27, 2011, 02:54 PM
The HK USP Tactical has the uncanny ability to deliver carbine-like accuracy, and Glock-like reliability out of a handgun. Also the firearms themselves are incredibly robust.

RX-178
May 27, 2011, 03:14 PM
I'll second HGUNHNTR's comment here, since I didn't bring it up in my previous post.

3" groups at 50 yards have been known to happen out of my USP Tactical.

Darebear
May 27, 2011, 03:51 PM
Different strokes for different folks. I will say if I find a P2000 at a good price I'll probably add one to the collection one day.
Thinking about selling my P2k v3. What's a good price to you?

Darebear
May 27, 2011, 03:57 PM
I don't have anything scientific to add, because my SA XD was as reliable as my two HK's now... I don't know why they cost so much, but I don't mind paying it.

They have pretty cool widgets and gizmo's on them, like the buffer on the recoil spring and the mag release on the trigger guard. I think HK does a awesome job at making firearms that ooooze "sexy" and "lethal".

HK Jake
May 27, 2011, 04:23 PM
I appreciate everyone's replies! The comments I quoted above are great and give me insight into the tangible things people like about these guns. I mean, I have read about "it just feels right," and that is valid for sure, but always wondered what features actually made it feel so right? For example, some say Glocks just feel right to them, but they don't to me and I can articulate that my small hands do not like the larger grip on anything aside from the 26/27 size (I don't like ANY double stack .45 for that matter).

Back to HKs. I never knew the side panels were interchangeable on an HK - that is a cool feature without having to interchange a full set of grips. This is the kind of info I was looking to gather. Thanks again guys and keep 'em coming.
The side panels are only interchangeable on the P30. Just an FYI.

Hk Paul
May 27, 2011, 05:00 PM
I'll say it before and I will say it again- HK's are built to a standard and not a price.

I own I think 7-8 HK's (a couple I dont shoot) and not a single one has ever jammed. Not a single one had a flaw. When I hold an HK, I can feel the quality permeate into my hands. I love the diopeter sighting system. I love the companys illustrious history. I love the fact that "good enough" is never "good enough" for them. I love how committed they are to innovation- what other company has came up with a gun that can fire underwater? What other company developed a hydraulic recoil system for a handgun(as used on the P7M7)? What other company can lay claim to making the most accurate semi-auto sniper rifle in the world? And its not no "3 shot group"- to them it has to average for 50 continuous shots. Who came up with the first polymer handgun (guess)? They use French steel in all of their barrels. Its harder to work with but the metal is superior to anything else.
This company has continued to raise the bar, time and time again. They truly are the best gun manufacturer in the world.
If you think they are overpriced, why are they still selling?
If you think they are overpriced, then you dont get it.

tonytor58
May 27, 2011, 07:02 PM
My usp 45c I got in Jan has a date code of 1999. I got it used for a good price the thing is rugged it looks good and handels recoil very well. Mags are expensive but the gun is awesome imo. I say its a good polymer pistol and sexy, u wont be disappointed.

danfive555
August 23, 2011, 10:51 PM
How is grip on the new HK45 and HK45c? Is it smaller than the USP45?

I really want a 45ACP, but the USP45 was too big for my hand, by just a tiny amount. I loved the P30--9mm, but couldn't find a HK45 to handle.

MyGreenGuns
August 24, 2011, 12:41 AM
I had a HK USP 9mm Compact w/ the 1911 style safety. Paid about $800 for it. Sold it to pay for my Chevy.

I loved that it was a crossbreed between an XD and a 1911. I love the texture on the grip. I liked carrying a poly gun "locked and loaded". I liked the decocker.

I didnt like the rattle it had when loaded. I didnt like the front site after it ended up off-center to the left. My only two complaints. I may have had a lemon.

I've shot more Glocks than HKs, but I'll buy another HK before I buy ANY Glock.

FIVETWOSEVEN
August 24, 2011, 02:16 AM
their use by militaries and spec ops all over the world

You mean the MK23 that sits in arms rooms collecting dust?

REAPER4206969
August 24, 2011, 03:12 AM
I like that it makes me better than the little people who don't own one.

At least that's what the FlavorAid packet that came in my USP box said.

Zak Smith
August 24, 2011, 03:30 AM
My first centerfire pistol was a USP40. I eventually traded it on a Glock 23, and then the Glock 19. I couldn't be happier with that series of decisions-- other than I could have saved time and money going to the Glock 9mm earlier. IMO, the manual of arms on the standard variant USP's is overly complex and the pistols are relatively large.

I am a fan of the P7 series. It is amongst the best CCW pistols ever devised.

That said, I would like to try the P30 and KH45, and I wouldn't kick a MK23 out of the safe.

jdub3
August 24, 2011, 03:51 AM
My first pistol was a USP .45. It has been dead nuts reliable and far more accurate than I am. My gripes are- the DA trigger is far from great (but I can carry cocked and locked in SA) and the grip is a little large for my small hands.

I have bought lots of pistols since, but the USP still puts a grin on my face when I shoot it. Just makes me look good.

I'm planning on adding a USPc .45 (hopefully stainless) and a p2000sk to my collection as finances permit.

boricua9mm
August 24, 2011, 09:27 AM
You mean the MK23 that sits in arms rooms collecting dust?

...or maybe he's talking about the HK45c that was adopted by NSW as the MK23's replacement, or the P7 and P8 that the Bundeswehr got as lot of mileage out of. Oh, and let's be honest with ourselves, if the JCP program went to fulfillment, it would have been the HK45 that brought home the contract; they're even being built here in the US now. ;)

boricua9mm
August 24, 2011, 09:33 AM
My first centerfire pistol was a USP40. I eventually traded it on a Glock 23, and then the Glock 19. I couldn't be happier with that series of decisions-- other than I could have saved time and money going to the Glock 9mm earlier. IMO, the manual of arms on the standard variant USP's is overly complex and the pistols are relatively large.

I am a fan of the P7 series. It is amongst the best CCW pistols ever devised.

I have to say, this is the first time I've ever read such a thing. The USP's manual of arms shares a lot in common with the 1911, save for the dual-function safety lever and the downward-sliding magazine release. The P7, by comparison, is a completely different manual of arms from any other pistol out there. The European mag release itself is also backwards, pivoting forward, rather than backwards, to release the magazine. Locking the slide back requires concentration and fine motor skills. Gaining a solid understanding of the cocking lever takes a good amount of time.

I've found that if I hand a shooter a USP he/she will be up & running in no time. If I hand a shooter my P7 and they've never shot one, they will almost always fumble with all of the items listed above, to include some unintentional double taps from not maintaining constant pressure on the cocking lever.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both (own both), but the USP's manual of arms is much more familiar to American shooters than the P7.

Fishbed77
August 24, 2011, 11:18 AM
Honestly, I was a S&W guy until the first time I handled a P30; the ergonomics of the P30/HK45 are vastly superior (in my opinion, of course) to any other handgun on the market.


Well - perhaps superior to any gun shy of the Walther P99, which the P30 wholeheartedly copied! ;)

I always find it ironic how HK lovers (and don't get me wrong - I love 'em too) talk about how much of a revelation the P30 ergos are. But honestly, unless you just must have a visible hammer and the HK name, there is nothing the P30 does that the Walther P99 wasn't doing just as good or better about 15 years earlier. When you take into account the same levels of fit & finish and reliability (not to mention the Walther's much better trigger), I find it hard to see where that extra $300+ is going.

Seven For Sure
August 24, 2011, 12:28 PM
Wow! That 45C and the P30 look like my kind of pistols. Can they both be carried C&L? Thanks in advance.

balance 740
August 24, 2011, 03:08 PM
I have to agree with fishbed77 to a degree.

If you handle a P99 and a P30, you will see that both the frontstrap and backstrap of both pistols are very similar (both feel very ergonomic), but the P30, which came out about ten years later, has more rounded side panels that fill up the palm of the hand better, while sides of the P99 are more flat. Also, the LEM trigger is very similar in function to the AS mode of the P99 trigger. I think H&K gets more credit for innovation due to the fact that H&K pistols are more well known than Walther pistols. In my opinion, Walther was the first company to make ergonomics a high priority in polymer pistols, while all other companies at the time were making "bricks".

I bought my P30S when I was looking for a quality 9mm pistol that could be carried cocked and locked, and I am happy with my purchase. The P30 is accurate and has never jammed on any ammo I have put through it so far. The only thing I would like H&K to improve on their pistols is the trigger. My only complaint with the newer H&K pistols.

rikman
August 24, 2011, 03:25 PM
Love my P7...very accurate and sweet trigger. I carry a USPC40 LEM....hate it....absolutely horrible trigger,blisters my trigger finger, brutal recoil. I was looking at a P30 last night. Beautiful gun, but very expensive and absolutely horrible trigger. I thought I'd check a P30 out after shooting a friends P2000 in 9mm who's trigger wasn't too bad.

alienbogey
August 24, 2011, 09:53 PM
P7: Yes, agree, one of the best CCW pistols ever made.

Learn the manual of arms, which is not nearly as big a deal as some make it out to be, and it is arguably the safest to carry, easy to bring into action, extremely accurate, utterly reliable, and has a trigger second only to the best 1911's.

benderx4
August 25, 2011, 02:37 AM
Their reliability, accuracy, and durability are unsurpassed. I also think the HK match and LEM/match hybrid triggers are the best in the semi-auto gun industry (other than 1911s).

helitack32f1
August 25, 2011, 02:47 AM
:barf: :barf: :barf:

tinygnat219
August 25, 2011, 09:45 AM
helitack32f1 :barf::barf::barf:

VAT? You dare qvestshun ze Teutonic Masterr-pieces of H"und"K? You are not vorzy of ze honor of holdink the USP. Ve fashuned ze ergonomics of eet after the vondurs of ze Amerkin 2X4 but wizout der splinterz!

For your arroganz, ve musd charge you $600 more for ze priviledge of baskink in ze glory zat is H"und"K. Zat is $300 per Umlt und zat is before we tell you "nein zat part does not exeest" becoz nuzink ever breakz on ze H"und"K!

Oh... y zink y are zpecial becse y have ze Glck? Nein! Glck est nt German! Glock est Austrian. To be zure, Letz compare ze two. Ze Glock ven one lookz at ze inzides... niz.... z zimple Only 34 Prtz? Ve hav zt mny in ze zfety lne! Zis cannot ztand! Nein, back to ze drawink bort.

FIVETWOSEVEN
August 25, 2011, 12:15 PM
or maybe he's talking about the HK45c that was adopted by NSW

I've heard about this before, can you provide proof of it?

helitack32f1
August 25, 2011, 02:03 PM
vat? You dare qvestshun ze teutonic masterr-pieces of h"und"k? You are not vorzy of ze honor of holdink the usp. Ve fashuned ze ergonomics of eet after the vondurs of ze amerkin 2x4 but wizout der splinterz!

For your arroganz, ve musd charge you $600 more for ze priviledge of baskink in ze glory zat is h"und"k. Zat is $300 per umlt und zat is before we tell you "nein zat part does not exeest" becoz nuzink ever breakz on ze h"und"k!

Oh... Y zink y are zpecial becse y have ze glck? Nein! Glck est nt german! Glock est austrian. To be zure, letz compare ze two. Ze glock ven one lookz at ze inzides... Niz.... Z zimple only 34 prtz? Ve hav zt mny in ze zfety lne! Zis cannot ztand! Nein, back to ze drawink bort.


roflmao!

balance 740
August 25, 2011, 02:16 PM
^ :D

boricua9mm
August 25, 2011, 03:48 PM
I've heard about this before, can you provide proof of it?

In 2010 it was announced by the Pres. of HK-USA (http://pistol-training.com/archives/2436) and there is an RFP out from NSW looking for laser attachments for the HK45c (https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=5f780f16483881879c7b7491d7e876c8&tab=core&_cview=1).

Here's another interesting, relevant Press Release (http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/NewsEvents/CTCDefenseAwardedMilitaryContract/tabid/565/Default.aspx)

FIVETWOSEVEN
August 25, 2011, 04:08 PM
Well its good to see they replaced that useless MK23.

Gunner442
August 25, 2011, 11:24 PM
I own two HKs( wish I could afford more) a HK USPc in .40 and a USC carbine. What do I like....On the USP, feels like it is built like a tank, like the fire controls( safety and de-cocker) has never hicuped on any ammo, not too "snappy" for a smaller .40
Dislike price
USC shoots like a dream, accurate and reliable
Dislike price, 10 round mags
The USP is on the short list for "if I could only have one pistol"....I'm a Walther fan, but I really like my USP!

Boanerges57
August 25, 2011, 11:27 PM
Have we drifted a little off of the topic of "what about the pistols do you like?"?
Holy cow.... all you haters back off!!! he isnt asking about why you like a glock, kahr, smith and wesson or frikkin ruger.
Im sure if he gets interested he will ask for the opinions of ruger owners.
And for those of you who prefer a car analogy: If someone asked for the opinion of honda owners on their vehicles do you think it appropriate for a buick owner to chime in?
Unless you have knowledge, ownership or experience of an h&k perhaps you should even read this thread since it seems to make at least a portion of non h&k owners quite peeved.

I dont own an h&k but i can see when some off topic hating is going on.
not everyone likes glock... get over it.

Jason_G
August 26, 2011, 12:31 AM
I like that they are built like tanks for the most part. They would make great duty, OC guns, but most models are a little thick for CCW for me. I like that some, like the USP, can be carried C&L, and have a hammer. I don't particularly care for the mag releases that are meant to be manipulated downward with a finger, rather than pressed with a thumb. They are doable, but I have gotten accustomed to the push-in style release, so that is what I would really prefer. Some of the triggers are great (P7), and some are so-so. I think they are good solid pistols, although they do cost a bit much in some cases.

I think they are a solid option for a SD firearm. I'd rather have a nice 1911 for the price, but as plastic pistols go, they make one as good as the rest.

Jason

helitack32f1
August 26, 2011, 01:01 AM
Have we drifted a little off of the topic of "what about the pistols do you like?"?
Holy cow.... all you haters back off!!! he isnt asking about why you like a glock, kahr, smith and wesson or frikkin ruger.
Im sure if he gets interested he will ask for the opinions of ruger owners.
And for those of you who prefer a car analogy: If someone asked for the opinion of honda owners on their vehicles do you think it appropriate for a buick owner to chime in?
Unless you have knowledge, ownership or experience of an h&k perhaps you should even read this thread since it seems to make at least a portion of non h&k owners quite peeved.

I dont own an h&k but i can see when some off topic hating is going on.
not everyone likes glock... get over it.
What exactly have you been smoking there, Boaner? Did someone pee in your bran flakes? I have just looked through this thread about 4 times and still cannot find anything that remotely resembles what you seem to be describing. I cannot find any "Off topic hating" and everyone seems to be discussing the attributes of, strangely enough, HK firearms! The last contentious exchange was three months ago as was the last car analogy. And I have found no mention of Kahrs, Rugers or S&W firearms either.

And guess what? It is a public forum, which means anyone can read it whether they like it or not!

I think a chill pill is in order.

5-SHOTS
August 26, 2011, 05:31 PM
My father has the HK P30 V3 and it is a superb pistol in every aspect. I don't think it is overpriced, it is simply more expensive to produce than other polymer pistols and accuracy is better, fit and finish is better, quality controls are better, materials are better, presentation is better and so on; take a look for example to the P30 slide and compare it to a Glock slide: I bet my money the P30 slide costs twice as much. Many people says that HKs are overpriced because they don't do more than less expensive weapons (go bang every time and so on) but it is always the same statement like "Rolex are overpriced, there are less expensive watches that keeps the time better and bla bla bla". Well, I still prefere a Rolex...

Too_Pure
August 26, 2011, 09:24 PM
I was very excited when I got my USP40. I tried it out and my group was a little wide, but I chalked it up to being new to the gun and got it anyway.

It never got any better. I ended up hating it and not wanting to use it because I just couldn't shot straight with it. Traded it for a Glock 30 that I love and can shoot well.

BTW my USP was almost 20 years old, albeit in 85-90% condition and the G30 was almost new with five magazines with extenders pluss ammo.

I am just a .45 guy. Maybe an HK .45 would be better for me. But HK does seem to be the snob of the tupperware world.

Jason_G
August 27, 2011, 02:00 AM
BTW my USP was almost 20 years old, albeit in 85-90% condition and the G30 was almost new with five magazines with extenders pluss ammo.

It must've been one of the very first ones produced. USPs were first produced in '93.

Jason

Too_Pure
August 27, 2011, 02:18 AM
Date code was KH. So I exaggerated a little :)

amprecon
August 29, 2011, 02:11 AM
Glocks have great finishes on top of poor metal.

Never heard that one before, Glock slides have been shot with a .22lr and appear to still maintain integrity.

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab167/amprecon/Guns/shotglock.jpg

Not trying to start a gun war, but the following is a link I found interesting.
I don't doubt H&K makes fine pistols, they just don't fit me that well, and they're expensive.

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

Apocalypse-Now
August 29, 2011, 02:55 AM
how much do one of those "accurizer" rubber bands for the $1,000 p30 cost? (:eek:)

Pilot
August 29, 2011, 08:14 AM
how much do one of those "accurizer" rubber bands for the $1,000 p30 cost? ()

They include several with the pistol, and each O-ring can go mulitple thousands of rounds. It is an elegant, and inexpensive way to accurize the barrel to frame fit.

Fishbed77
August 29, 2011, 01:59 PM
My father has the HK P30 V3 and it is a superb pistol in every aspect. I don't think it is overpriced, it is simply more expensive to produce than other polymer pistols and accuracy is better, fit and finish is better, quality controls are better, materials are better, presentation is better and so on; take a look for example to the P30 slide and compare it to a Glock slide: I bet my money the P30 slide costs twice as much.

That might explain why a P30 costs more than a Glock, but it doesn't explain why it costs $300 more than a Walther.

Skivvy Master
August 29, 2011, 04:32 PM
I own a police trade in USP40. When things go bump in the night, it's one of the few things I reach for.

It fits the hand well, one of the only double stack polymer frames that I enjoy shooting and shoot well (XD being the other), and the reliability is commendable.

Other things I could reach for but dont:
PM9
PT1911
Sig239

I would consider the 1911. It feels great in the hand and I shoot it well. However it doesn't have a rail, (no light) so the USP wins again.

Yes I've fired a glock, wasn't impressed. (specifically fit and finish)
Yes I've shot a caspian framed 1911, wasn't worth the $ (smooth must = $$)
Yes I have fired a large frame Kahr, liked it but wanted the PM for carry.
Yes I will own an XD, probably in 9, and that MAY compete with the USP.. but that is yet to be determined.

Skivvy Master
August 29, 2011, 05:44 PM
And what does this image show? Obviously this is from the "glock = bestest ever" line of reasoning, but which part exactly? I hope it's not durability..

Then again, it could be from the "this-is-all-a-glock-is-good-for" thread. :) But I digress.

Bentonville
August 29, 2011, 07:30 PM
iirc, I don't believe that the P30 has the O ring. The 45 Compact does for sure.

cemjr
August 29, 2011, 11:25 PM
"HK Owners - What About The Pistols Do You Like?" I have a P30 in 9mm and I like it alot. 1) very accurate , especially for a barrel a fuzz under 4"s 2) The grip is phenomenal. 3) though I would prefer night sites, the green 3dots are very easy to pick-up 4) I like a decocker better than a manual safety 5) I have never accidently released a mag during firing and once you learn its operation, its rather handy.6) though the DA part of the DA/SA is a little heavy for my liking ,the reset is crisp. As another poster said., I wish I could afford a couple more.

Apocalypse-Now
August 29, 2011, 11:48 PM
They include several with the pistol, and each O-ring can go mulitple thousands of rounds. It is an elegant, and inexpensive way to accurize the barrel to frame fit.

that's true. rubber bands add a touch of class to any $1,000 polymer pistol :eek:

REAPER4206969
August 30, 2011, 02:21 AM
I'll never understand people that disparage Glock's F&F.

Mine exhibit near flawless machining and better molding than my HK.

REAPER4206969
August 30, 2011, 02:23 AM
that's true. rubber bands add a touch of class to any $1,000 polymer pistol

Some of the USP models have the O ring as well.

It really is a half assed way to tighten the barrel to slide fit.

vaherder
August 30, 2011, 07:36 AM
I like HKs and Walthers. I have never had a reliability issue with any product from either company. HK's CS has been excellent.

Powertrain dependability. I have owned, tracked and raced a few BMWs. I have also torn down a number of high mileage BMW engines ie over 200,000+ and some with 300K+. Many of these engines have seen thousands of hours of track time. Now Hyundai doesnt make an engine that can do this. Sorry.
Bores looked like they had just been broken in and everything was in spec.
You wont get the same results from a Hyundai or any Japanese or US manfacturer.

Back in the early 80's through 1987 BMW provided a turbo charged inline 4 engine to various Formula 1 teams. BMW carefully selected engine blocks for this program ie they went out to junkyards and looked for well aged and broken in blocks from their stock 4 cylinder engine. Use and weather had aged, stressed and seasoned the blocks. BMW put one of these on their engine dyno and it pegged their dyno at well over 1500hp from 1500cc or 90 cubic inches engine. Engine won numerous F1 races and drivers championship in 87 and beat Ferari and Porsche that year.

Now reliability of other components can be an issue with current BMWs.
But take a 550 and Hyundai Genesis V8 on a trip from DC to Atlanta and then do a couple of track days at Road Atlanta and let me know which is the better ride. Consumer Reports typically hits BMW hard for their crappy cupholders. And they consider it a dependability issue in their surveys. Real BMWs like my 90 E30M3 dont have any cupholders.

You pay for quality either in your HK and your Bimmer or you can buy something else. You do get what you pay in most cases.

ExecutiveCarry
August 30, 2011, 09:15 AM
Wow .... not much left to say. I beleive Post 1-3 probably cover the HK pretty well. If you are here ... and don't care for th HK series of pistols... you don't have to leave a comment. Period.
The HK45, HK45C, and P30 represent the future of Heckler & Koch pistols. Is that a good thing? Each of my USP pistols has years of service life left in them. Spare parts and magazines are easy to come by. So, there’s no need to switch platforms for a few cosmetic improvements. Are the new HK45 and P30 series good guns? No, they’re GREAT guns. Don’t get me wrong. I’m a huge proponent of Heckler & Koch products. I highly recommend them to my friends and clients. However, this is my opinion on the HK45: Buy one if you’re a die-hard HK aficionado. Otherwise, a USP .45 in your holster will serve you well for years to come. Regarding the P30: If you don’t already own a USP full size or compact 9mm, surely this is the one to get. It’s the best of both worlds. Compact and slim enough for concealed carry, but with enough firepower and barrel length for home defense, competition, or range duty.
I sold my Sig 220 Equinox, and purchased an HK 45 Compact. Whoa baby .... what a difference..... :eek:
For a .45 carry pistol, the HK 45C is simply marvelous. The quality to detail and accurracy of this pistol is outstanding.

boricua9mm
August 30, 2011, 09:23 AM
that's true. rubber bands add a touch of class to any $1,000 polymer pistol

$1k? Man, you've gotta find a new gun shop, or start buying online :)

It really is a half assed way to tighten the barrel to slide fit.

Well, that's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that after tens of thousands of rounds, you can replace it with a $0.50 O-ring and restore the barrel lockup back to its original starting point.

The only "problem" I have seen with O-rings in HKs is when there is a burr in the O-ring groove that is milled into the slide. In those instances, the ring can get chewed up rather quickly. That is a pretty rare event though, and it has more to do with the slide than the O-ring.

Apocalypse-Now
August 30, 2011, 11:15 AM
What if the rubber band snaps during firing and gets stuck inside the gun? :eek:

Skivvy Master
August 30, 2011, 11:28 AM
Better F&F than your HK? lol. Which thread do you think you're on??

OK. To be fair, it has been 4 years since I fired a Glock. Which probably means it was a gen 2. In fairness, Im sure they have improved.

On the other hand, it's been 1 month since I fired my HK, S# date group 2000 police trade in. I haven't cleaned it for some time. I will take it to the range this weekend, un-cleaned, and it will perform flawlessly for me as I feed it various amounts of factory and reloaded ammo. And I can say that, (regarding reliability) without the slightest inclination to shoot at it with another gun, throw it out of a helicopter, bury it in the sand or back over it with my truck.

Full Disclosure: It has been months, not years since it was cleaned. The F&F of any police trade in DOES leave something to be desired. I have considered giving Glock a second chance, but am having reservations thanks to the audible fanboy militia.

NOTHING is perfect.

HKGuns
August 30, 2011, 05:11 PM
Yeah, you're right, the MK23 is the only HK weapon ever adopted by any military in the world! Get a clue GloCkers. Let's see, G36, G3, P7, 91, 93, 94......MP5 and variants, 416....The list goes on and on.

How many rifles does GLoCk make? Oh, never mind, they don't.

JustinJ
August 30, 2011, 05:32 PM
In just about every special forces profile i've ever read in my gun mags HK pistols(usually the USP) are listed as primary or commonly used side arm. Not to mention HK rifles and SMGs.

Rajah
August 30, 2011, 07:19 PM
Well I'll tell you what I like about my USP45.

12+1.
I have big hands so it fits well.
DA/SA. (i'm not a big DAO fan.)
Very large trigger guard for full on winter gloves.

I don't remember it being that much more than anything similar when I bought it. /Shrug.

aryfrosty
August 30, 2011, 07:36 PM
I think that as with any gun you either like them or you don't. I have a P7PSP that I swear by. Of all of my handguns it is the one that will never leave my hands. It was expensive and it has so many details and quirks that some wouldn't agree with it for a survival pistol. But I do. On the other hand I bought a P-2000sk in .40 a few years back and couldn't wait to trade it off.

Apocalypse-Now
August 31, 2011, 08:58 PM
How many rifles does GLoCk make? Oh, never mind, they don't.

what's your point?


glocks are the most popular military/LE pistols in the world. HK's are not. what does that tell you?

Skivvy Master
September 1, 2011, 11:08 AM
QUOTE: "what's your point? glocks are the most popular military/LE pistols in the world. HK's are not. what does that tell you?"

Oh geez. Here we go. I 'love' this argument. ha ha.

First: The military (any military for that matter) isn't necessarily concerned with durability when they develop or adopt something. They may say they are, and it may be in the requirements, but history will show that reliability and durability often land in the middle of the pack. Sometimes they get lucky.. (Yes. I know you think this is where your favorite pet toy fits.)

Second: The military is concerned with standardizing (Read: bulk) everything for as little money as they can get away with. ALWAYS a driving factor no matter what the requirements doc says.

Several examples exist of how the military adapted something which ended up being durable and could be produced in bulk (like the jeep) and several exist of bulk items that ended up being $h1te. (Molly ruck frame) Just because the military has a bunch, isn't necessarily a badge of honor. In fact, it may be otherwise.. unless you want to equip your militia on the cheep.

So, Congratulations! Glock is cheaper than HK.

Full Disclosure: I am intimately familiar with the military acquisitions process.

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