Convincing A Parent To Buy You A Gun


PDA






IcemanUnlimited
May 26, 2011, 09:42 PM
My 19th birthday is next month.. Money isn't an issue, I just want a cheap Hi-Point handgun. My mom is fairly neutral on guns yet I'm worried she'll say no if I ask for one from her. Any tips or advice on convincing her if necessary?

If you enjoyed reading about "Convincing A Parent To Buy You A Gun" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
kingpin008
May 26, 2011, 10:04 PM
Outside of demonstrating that you're responsible enough to own/handle a gun, I don't see any other way to "convince" her. If she's worried about it being dangeorus, you could point her towards sites like corneredcat.com and the like, but ultimately it's her house and her rules, ya know?

Good luck, and happy (early) birthday. :)

Tomcat47
May 26, 2011, 10:12 PM
Federal Law: Age 21 for Handgun

Provided that federal law and the laws of both the dealer's and purchaser's states and localities are complied with:

An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual's state of residence.[7]

An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed dealer in any state. However, the applicant may not purchase a pistol gripped long gun that does not have a shoulder stock until he or she is 21 years of age.

And when considering state by state laws, remember this....Federal Law Supersedes State law.

Better wait on this one! And Mom cannot buy it in her name for you! Big NO-NO!

hirundo82
May 26, 2011, 10:21 PM
Your mother cannot buy a handgun for you with the intention of getting around the federal background check--that's a federal felony for both of you. She can buy one for you as a gift because then she is the actual purchaser; she cannot buy one for you with your money because you are the actual purchaser in that case.

Under federal law, the only way for you to purchase a handgun while under 21 is in a private party transaction. IIRC Minnesota still requires a permit to purchase, so I don't know if that is an option in your case.

firemanstrickland
May 26, 2011, 10:25 PM
hold on just one second, you DO NOT have to be 21 to own a handgun in sc. If it is a gift you can have one and if it is a private transaction your legal, the only thing you cant do is buy from a dealer of course im not sure about mn. good luck, focus on your mom getting you one, not the legal side.

IcemanUnlimited
May 26, 2011, 10:27 PM
I can legally own the handgun at age 18, you can legally buy a gun as a gift as well.. So this is perfectly legal.

firemanstrickland
May 26, 2011, 10:30 PM
explain to her the safety precautions you will be taking, let her know you know what your doing, be an adult about it, give it to her strait.

IcemanUnlimited
May 26, 2011, 10:42 PM
Forgot she'll need a Permit To Purchase... She might not want to fill out all that crap. This isn't looking so good.

CraigC
May 26, 2011, 10:45 PM
Boy, the armchair legal team is hard at work trying to ruin Christmas. :rolleyes:

Jim Watson
May 26, 2011, 10:49 PM
My first pistol was a 9mm (you could get Lugers pretty cheap in prehistorical days) and that was a BIG mistake. I kicked and blasted myself into a flinch that still shows up.

I recommend a nice .22 so you can learn something and not just make fireworks.
That approach might help you convince Mom you are responsible and serious.

IcemanUnlimited
May 26, 2011, 11:22 PM
Well I'm not a rookie with firearms, nor am I a professional. =P

kingcheese
May 26, 2011, 11:59 PM
ok, lets cover the basics first.

in most states you can legally own a handgun at the age of 18
according to federal law, you have to be 21 to buy a handgun(there are ways around this)
it is legal for a legal gaurdian to provide a handgun to a minor for supervised personal use
and it is legal for family to provide someone with a firearm for personal use assuming they are not a minor

i am 18, turning 19 next month, i live in Indiana, and i can legally carry a concealed weapon, although i can not buy a hangun, or handgun ammo, handgun ammo thing is a state law, not federal

i got my parents to buy a gun for me by telling them i needed another interesting firearm for my collection, i got a nagant revolver, i dont ever carry the thing unless i am going to shoot it

i would say that it would help if the gun you wanted had some historical/sporting use, like a revolver or single shot pistol for hunting, hi points are cheap, and that isnt a good thing

it would be like spending 100 dollars on a car recently used in a demolitiond derby so you could use it as a daily driver, vs spending 1000 dollars on a car that runs, but is well used

your best bet is to choose a high qaulity gun, for a non defensive purpose

DAP90
May 27, 2011, 12:16 AM
If you haven’t already – get some safety training. Make sure you have a cert or class information to show, etc. Pick out a safe or whatever to secure the gun in the house. Show her that you’ve considered all the angles and are trying to think it through.

Then, there’s something to be said for competition in a structured environment. I know you said you’re interested in a Hi-Point. Instead, maybe find a shooting sport you’re interested in and choose an appropriate gun for that. She’s likely to feel better if there’s an organized event with judges, range officers, official rules and something to compete for.

Telekinesis
May 27, 2011, 12:51 AM
according to federal law, you have to be 21 to buy a handgun(there are ways around this)

That's not completely true. Fed law only says that a FFL can't transfer agun to anyone under 21. It says nothing about actually purchasing the gun. FTF sales are perfectly legal for anyone 18 and older as far as fed law goes. (states may differ on private sales and age though)

I agree with kingcheese as far as going for a quality gun, but for different reasons. Choosing a higher quality gun (and a bit more expensive) shows not only that you are looking for something to last and not just something for a quick thrill, but also that you are willing to sacrifice to achieve that goal. There is no need to go all out on a brand new thousand dollar HK, just something that is a bit more durable than a hi-point. Maybe one of those P6 imports that were about $350. Nothing says class like a Sig!

A better gun will also last longer. For example, my family has a gun that has been handed down for over 100 years and is still in good working order. Wouldn't you want your first pistol to be something your great grandkids can shoot?

Also, and this may be some really bad advice depending on your specific situation, but assuming you're out of the house already, your parents don't have to know about any guns… (which would mean private transfer only)

And for the record, some parents just can't be convinced. My parents funded a 14,000 round/year competitive shotgun habit, but flatly refused to get me anything approaching a rifle or pistol, including a bolt rifle strictly for range use. They still don't know about any of my pistols…

+1 on getting into some form of competitive shooting. But be warned, it's very addicting. I started out with the intention of just doubt a little here and there for the fun of it, and wound up loving it and traveling across the country for competitions every week!

IcemanUnlimited
May 27, 2011, 01:20 AM
I started out trying to do private sale. I still have a few listings posted around, but it's tough because it needs to be local. I may just stick with that to keep it simple.. Then the only parties that need to be involved are the seller and I. Government not being involved is also a perk.

About the Hi-Point part of it.. That's not really up for discussion. I've taken my time and done lots of research and this is what I'm going with. If I am wrong, at least it wasn't an expensive mistake.

Davek1977
May 27, 2011, 01:51 AM
it would be like spending 100 dollars on a car recently used in a demolitiond derby so you could use it as a daily driver, vs spending 1000 dollars on a car that runs, but is well used

Hi-points are inexpensive, yes, but by and large, the overwhelming statement from those who actually own or shoot them is that they are quite reliable, have amazing warranty service (for the lifetime of the gun, regardless of number of owners), and are generally quite undervalued by most. yes, they are heavy, ugly, and don't have the classic lines of say a 1911. However, they do shoot, and quite accurately AND reliably by many accounts. They aren't everyone's cup of tea, but for someone looking for a HD gun on a budget or a range toy, I haven't read or heard anything that would steer me against buying one. Comparing them to a car that's been run through a demo derby just isn't a fair statement IMO. I'd rather spend $150 on a hipoint that worked out the box than $600 on a kimber that MIGHT work right after a 200 ( and roughly another 60 bucks in ammo cost...if using CHEAP ammo)) round break in period. The name on the slide or the price tag says very little about how reliable a gun is. it sounds like the poster has done his research and has his mind made up. He isn't asking for fireams advice, just acquisition advice

bigfatdave
May 27, 2011, 04:10 AM
Boy, the armchair legal team is hard at work trying to ruin Christmas.As always, the "I watch CSI" legal team has an opinion ... you're surprised?

Iceman ... just buy local and private, you're probably better off getting a .22lr target gun, you won't have as much hassle buying ammo and you can shoot a lot more ammo per dollar on rimfire. Browning Buckmark or Ruger mk__ or 22/45, or whatever rimfire pistol strikes your fancy will be a lot easier to find a private seller for than an ultra-cheap centerfire handgun. At least near me you don't see a lot of the cheapo centerfire guns popping up used, people buy them because they need them, not as toys. People do buy target pistols as toys and sell them off fairly often, making them easier to find on the used/private market.

axxxel
May 27, 2011, 04:46 AM
Well why doesn't she want to buy you the pistol? Start there! If she's "afraid" of guns or concerned rather, then maybe you should try a completely different approach. Show her that you understand firearms safety by spending your own money on a safety class, or change the item on your wishlist from a black scary handgun to a friendly rifle. That could help emphasize that what you're looking for in the gun is a way to learn marksmanship and responsibiliy.

Edit: Or if you're really into handgunning you can replace your black scary handgun with a friendly .22 handgun.

Btw I'm more of a rifleman myself and there is a .22 rifle on the top of my to buy list right now.

When funds are limited (which they usually are for young people anyway - I'm 22) the price of ammo really impacts how much shooting you are going to do.

I have an m14s in my gun safe but I haven't shot it in months because I need to put my student loan money towards rent and food.

Plenty of dry firing going on though...

Davek1977
May 27, 2011, 05:09 AM
Well why doesn't she want to buy you the pistol? He doesn't know that she WON'T buy him one....just "afraid" she MIGHT not. He's yet to discuss the issue with her

kingcheese
May 27, 2011, 05:25 AM
Fed law only says that a FFL can't transfer agun to anyone under 21

and buying a gun from someone who is not an FFL is the way around it

Shadow 7D
May 27, 2011, 05:30 AM
HA HA HA HA
no really, that's funny
Tell your mom that you would like X
and hope she's up a conversation about it
Or, you might just get a pack of underwear and two packs of socks.

kingcheese
May 27, 2011, 05:31 AM
i guess if you want a semi auto i can respect that, i just dont like most semi autos that much, i like the old time semi autos, like pre ww2 design, but outside of that im a revolver ad sigle shot pistol kinda guy

and back to my car anology, all i was getting at is that you can do more with a slightly more expensive gun, accessories, and parts would be easier toget, mabee a little more comfortable, but if you want a hi-point, its not like im gonna stop you :)

msparks
May 27, 2011, 08:03 AM
Too bad you are not in my family.

My daughter graduates high school today. Her gifts include.

1. Title to the truck I gave her 2 years ago.
2. Luggage, (hint don't stick around too long)
3. S&W Model 60 .357 Profession 3" barrel.

My dad gave me a gun for graduation, so I figure this would be a great thing to pass on. Though he gave me a "cheap" Llama 1911 clone that would jam even on ball ammo.

The Model 60 pro is a beautiful gun that I hope she will have with her the rest of her life.

"Go out into the world in awe. Explore, experience, and live life to the fullest. Just be ware it is not all balloons and bubble gum, be prepared, be aware, and always protect yourself"

Good luck with your mom. Maybe you could sign up for a safety class. Many ranges will rent you a gun for the class, once you do this, it will demonstrate you are responsible.

InkEd
May 27, 2011, 12:22 PM
I would suggest you just buy yourself a rifle. It sounds like alot of hoops to jump through in your home state to get a handgun. Also, I suggest you wait/save-up more money and buy a nicer pistol. You'll be happier with the higher quality and pride of ownership.

IcemanUnlimited
May 27, 2011, 12:47 PM
I'm not at all interested in a rifle at this point. I have a shotgun I want but it's a few hundred dollars more.

I said this earlier:
About the Hi-Point part of it.. That's not really up for discussion. I've taken my time and done lots of research and this is what I'm going with. If I am wrong, at least it wasn't an expensive mistake.

hso
May 27, 2011, 12:57 PM
Any tips or advice on convincing her if necessary?

Like any gift you'd like to get from someone it is best if you're explicit.
In the case of family it is also often good to explain that it is as inexpensive a reliably working new item as available, but you wouldn't turn something down that was a bit better if they wanted to spend the extra money.
In the case of a firearm pointing out the utility of it never hurts, but if you live at home you'll have a hard time selling the idea if you include defense. If they thought home defense was an issue they'd already have guns for that purpose and they won't have as easy a time accepting that you having a gun in their home for home defense makes much sense.

NavyLCDR
May 27, 2011, 01:35 PM
better off getting a .22lr target gun, you won't have as much hassle buying ammo

He would have just as much legal hassle buying .22lr ammo for use in a handgun as he would buying 9mm or .45ACP ammo for use in a handgun. The law is exactly the same.

Personally, I think a .22 target pistol would be easier to convince mom to buy.

Also, maybe attend a handgun safety course with range time with mom? Especially if they have .22 pistols available for her to shoot. Never know, she might end up liking it.

hermannr
May 27, 2011, 01:50 PM
I'm with NavyLt. Talk her into a taking a handgun safety class,,,with you. First!

hso
May 27, 2011, 02:57 PM
That's a good idea since money isn't an issue.

Engage with your mother and both of you take a class together so that she can have more in common with you in an area that you're interested in.

The advantage to the .22 is that it the ammo is cheap in bulk and allows for a lot of shooting. It won't take long for Mom to want something "more" or happily want to get something more for you.

Heretic
May 27, 2011, 03:45 PM
Agree to "supervised use". She'll feel safer about it and it won't be long before she won't worry about it anymore. Thats how I got my first pistol at age 14.

Tokarevsrule
May 27, 2011, 04:00 PM
I got my first handgun when I was 17:neener:. It was a yugo tokarev. If I have the money my dad will fill out the paperwork. He has been teaching me gun safety since I was 8, so he knows I won't mess up.

IcemanUnlimited
May 27, 2011, 05:09 PM
I got my first handgun when I was 17. It was a yugo tokarev. If I have the money my dad will fill out the paperwork. He has been teaching me gun safety since I was 8, so he knows I won't mess up.

I'm jealous, my parents have nothing to do with guns. My cousin is an LEO, so at least he's someone to talk with lol.

Anyways guys.. Turns out this is going to be too much of a pain. I don't wanna put my mom through the hassle of loads of paperwork that will be required. I'm probably just going to stick with getting a used one myself in private trade.

hirundo82
May 27, 2011, 06:43 PM
Boy, the armchair legal team is hard at work trying to ruin Christmas.

Sorry, on first read it looked like he was going to ask his mom to purchase one for him with his money. I now see he was going to ask for it as a birthday gift, which is perfectly legal in most states.

It does stink that federal law makes it so difficult for a legal adult (which an 18/19 year-old is) to purchase a legal object. Hopefully that can be rectified through the courts in the next few years.

Until then, it's gifts and private purchases, and it is a shame that Minnesota makes you go through the permit to purchase process as well. If that isn't required for a private purchase (or if Minnesota law allows a 19 year-old to get a purchase permit), it's a good option (birthday money?).

If I have the money my dad will fill out the paperwork.

That's the kind of (illegal) transaction I thought the OP was proposing. Don't do that--it's a straw purchase, and a felony under federal law.

CZguy
May 27, 2011, 08:56 PM
I'm not at all interested in a rifle at this point.

Out of curiosity why?

Curator
May 27, 2011, 09:05 PM
Take the NRA Basic Pistol course and show her the diploma you recieve when you complete the class. Explain your plan to keep it in a safe place away from possible unauthorized use. Be prepared to spend your OWN money. Most parents understand responsibility and are prepared to encourage it.

jhansman
May 27, 2011, 09:45 PM
The legal aspect has been covered here pretty well, so I'll only add that your relationship with your mother is what's at stake. If you are concerned that she will say no, I would advise you to discuss her reasons with her. She may not know enough about handguns to make an educated decision about giving you one legally; convincing her is, IMO, less important than helping her understand the whole picture. That said, my wife is an anti through and through, and while she understands that I am a conscientious and safe gun owner, that does nothing to affect her opinion of guns and ownership. Good luck in working this out.

IcemanUnlimited
May 27, 2011, 09:57 PM
CZguy - I'm primarily interested in home defense and Conceal and Carry. The pretty much rules out a rifle.

jhansman - I'm pretty sure I'm just going to get it through private trade now.. Keep things simple.

22-rimfire
May 27, 2011, 09:58 PM
Since I had little experience with handguns as did my family, I waited until I was 21. Lots of long gun use and comfort and I had a 22 rifle when I was in the 9th grade. You have lots of time ahead of you. I do recommend a 22 handgun as a first handgun.

Big_E
May 27, 2011, 10:18 PM
I struggled with wanting a pistol for several years. I just waited until I turned 21 to buy them though, since I inherited a few from my grandfathers.

I went out and bought a CZ-75 and S&W 22A on my birthday. Personally, I think it's best to wait until legal age to avoid the hassle of having to buy ammo for pistols and whatnot.

The Hi-Point is a pretty decent pistol in it's own right. I even met the owner and he is a good guy who stands behind his products. My dad is a pretty good acquaintance with him.

J-Bar
May 28, 2011, 08:07 PM
In a very short time, you will be 21. And with luck you will be over 21 for a VERY long time. Enjoy being 19. Majority, and the rights and responsibilities that come with it, will come soon enough. When it does you won't have to talk to Mom at all...

22-rimfire
May 28, 2011, 08:42 PM
You do know that you have to be 21 to get a handgun carry permit in MN, right? http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/minnesota.pdf

Home protection, sure. What home? But if your parents don't want you to have a gun, then the home protection argument is kind of moot. Get your parents approval or wait until you are out on your own.

Added: I looked up MN laws for handgun purchase and there is a requirement for a purchase permit prior to the purchase of a handgun from a FFL dealer. I am confused as to whether it is legal to purchase a handgun from an individual (aka private sale) without a purchase permit in MN. Maybe somebody can clarify this. It is perfectly legal in my state as long as you are legally able to own a firearm.

withdrawn34
May 30, 2011, 05:40 PM
Is there a reason you can't save up the money yourself?

Ultravox
May 30, 2011, 05:58 PM
You do know that you have to be 21 to get a handgun carry permit in MN, right? http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/minnesota.pdf

Home protection, sure. What home? But if your parents don't want you to have a gun, then the home protection argument is kind of moot. Get your parents approval or wait until you are out on your own.

Added: I looked up MN laws for handgun purchase and there is a requirement for a purchase permit prior to the purchase of a handgun from a FFL dealer. I am confused as to whether it is legal to purchase a handgun from an individual (aka private sale) without a purchase permit in MN. Maybe somebody can clarify this. It is perfectly legal in my state as long as you are legally able to own a firearm.
In MN you do not need a purchase permit to purchase a handgun from a private party. The law just says that they can't sell it to someone whom they know to be unable to purchase one. (Felon, etc.)

If you enjoyed reading about "Convincing A Parent To Buy You A Gun" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!