10mm Question.


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Boothdt
May 27, 2011, 11:19 PM
So I haven't bought a gun in a while and I think I'm going through withdrawal:( I'm extremely pleased with my Glock 20SF but I'd really like something with "Made in America" stamped on it. A quick google search shows me the Kimber Eclipse Custom II, Colt Delta Elite, and S&W 1006 series. I have heard that the S&W wears out relatively quickly and tends to develop the "baby rattle" and that the old Delta Elite's had some hiccups but the post 2009 models had solved them. I haven't heard a thing about the Kimber. I don't have any firsthand experience with any of them.

Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge with any of the above and if so, what was your experience? What would you suggest and why?

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SharpsDressedMan
May 28, 2011, 12:48 AM
I'd look for a S&W in exc-to-almost new condition; they are out there, and still reasonable. I think the rumor you heard about them is untrue. Mine it tight, accurate, and built like a tank. I think both the Glock and the S&W will do more rounds before wearing our or cracking than the 1911 10mm pistols, as both were designed to handle 10mm from the beginning.

mr.trooper
May 28, 2011, 12:52 AM
Don't forget the Witness. You could probably find a Star if you looked as well.

swinokur
May 28, 2011, 08:41 AM
I have a G29SF and a Smith 1076. I don't know where you heard the stories about the Smith but IMO nothing could be further from the truth AFAIIC. As posted they are built like tanks and mine has never made a sound other than a loud bang when the trigger is pulled.

I am looking for a Colt Delta Elite as well. All the previous issues with them have been resolved AFAIK..

stevek
May 28, 2011, 08:27 PM
The only thing keeping me away from the Smith, is the operation of the thumb safety. It is opposite of all the other pistols with a thumb safety in my collection. If it was to be used ONLY for target practice, I might look at it, but then again 10mm for target is a bit overkill IMHO ;)

swinokur
May 28, 2011, 08:57 PM
The 1026 and 1076 have only decockers,

stevek
May 28, 2011, 09:00 PM
Thanks for the clarification. Just what I needed...2 more guns to consider :o

swinokur
May 28, 2011, 09:01 PM
:evil:

sammy
May 28, 2011, 09:52 PM
I have a 1006 and like a poster above said it is built like a tank. Never heard of anyone wearing one out, and if you did it the ammo would have cost you far more than buying a replacement. The G20 feels better, is more accurate (in my hands) and has far less felt recoil than the 1006. The bore is a bit lower in the Glock but I feel better loading hot ammo in the Smith.

Zak Smith
May 29, 2011, 03:39 AM
Made in America and 10mm.. how about an SV or SVI in 10mm?

Apocalypse-Now
May 29, 2011, 04:06 AM
want a pistol designed around an extremely low pressure cartridge, then moded to handle a very high pressure cartridge? then a 10mm 1911 is the one for you ;)


a used s&w 1076 is probably your best bet.

Cryogaijin
May 29, 2011, 07:22 AM
Witness is an Italian clone of a czech pistol with a different cart shoved in it.

That said, I love mine. :)

harrygunner
May 29, 2011, 05:34 PM
The Colt 10mm 1911 issue was fixed decades ago. Don't forget the first airplane flight was 120 feet and early rockets blew up at liftoff.

M91/30
May 29, 2011, 07:57 PM
The kimber eclipse custom II that i had the privledge of firing was fabulous. It was insanely accurate, fell nice in the hand, and was pretty. As far as i Know they are reliable as well, this particular one belonged to a competition shooter. But I do believe they cost a pretty penny. But thats my "review" Of course Just about anybody can have a crush on a gun and say the best about it. :rolleyes:

Apocalypse-Now
May 29, 2011, 08:37 PM
i think s&w would sell a plethora of m&p's chambered for 10mm, but that's just me :)

jmr40
May 29, 2011, 10:00 PM
The S&W 1006 series and the Glock are the ONLY 2 semi-auto platforms that have PROVEN they can handle the 10mm round. I might consider a 1911, but many of the 1911 guns in 10mm have had issues. Perhaps some manufacturers have figured it out. The EAA is not a consideration, at least not in 10mm.

SharpsDressedMan
May 29, 2011, 10:21 PM
As far as the 1911 in 10mm, I have owned a Delta and a custom Caspian in 10mm, and the only issue I can see is possibly a shorter frame life with the 10mm over the .45 cartridge. The 10mm with full loadings is going to wear out the gun sooner. I have heard that if you get more than 7000 rounds of full 10mm out of a 1911 before possible stress cracks in the frame you are doing well. I have had a .45 cal 1911 crack after long use(20,000 rounds), and it still did not stop the gun from fuctioning properly, it was just annoying visually. I would believe that the 1006 and G20 would have a longer life without cracking than the 1911, but all may keep working as the cracks are usually such that they do not interfere with function.

JROC
May 29, 2011, 11:10 PM
If I was to get another 10mm to go along side my G20SF I would get a Colta Delta Elite. I have a friend with one, and it's a nice gun. It feels bigger than my Colt CE, but lighter at the same time. IDK. I'm thinking I might get another G20 with they get introduced as a Gen 4.

Anyway I wish S&W would make a M&P 10. If they did I would jump on it as I really like the M&P's, and the 10mm is the most awesome semi-auto round IMO.

Kitt
May 29, 2011, 11:20 PM
I own a Dan Wesson CBOB that shoots great, a Glock 20 with a 6" barrel & red dot scope, a Glock 20 SF and a Glock 29...I do like the 10mm...BUT if you would get a Para Ordnance P-16 Limited and have Hunter's Custom ream the barrel to 10mm you would have a 16 + 1 1911 size 10mm that shoots like a dream.http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo130/LWKITT/IM000001.jpg

Dimis
May 30, 2011, 12:37 AM
to my knowledge (which is limited mind you) the new deltas are identical in manufacture as the originals

there was a very limited amount of guns with frame cracking in the beginning (not even enough to warrant a recall) and those guns were handled through colts customer service

the kimber eclipse has gotten very good reviews as well

most 1911s in 10mm have had overall positive reviews so IMO id say that the whole bunk about 10mm being too much for them is just that... bunk

a good portion of reviewers have stated changing the springs regularly but you should do that anyway with any 1911 just as a good maintenance schedule

the glocks get good things said about them

never read a review for the 10mm witness unless its one of the high end limited gold blah blah unrealistic models that i personally steer clear of

the smiths and even the old brens are what everyone seems to covet as THE centimeter handgun

my personal preference would be one delta (if i can ever track one down) and one kimber eclipse custom II

harrygunner
May 30, 2011, 01:25 AM
Decades ago, the Delta shared a weakness all 1911's had back then in the slide stop slot in the frame. The fix was very simple and I believe, most all manufactures incorporated that fix in recent .45 ACP 1911 frames. Old news.

Rather than the frame, the slide is of concern to some smiths. A simple calculation leads to an estimate that the 10mm presents 56% more force on the slide. The breach face takes a bigger push. A well made forged steel slide helps there.

I had Bar-Sto custom fit a ramped barrel with an improved lower lug to the STI slide and Springfield frame of my 10mm 1911. The action of that gun is so smooth, that it could last as long as any .45 ACP 1911.

If one researches the opinions of seasoned gunsmiths with experience with 10mm 1911's, the general consensus is a properly built 1911 in 10mm will last.

Someone asked Richard Heine this question: http://pistolsmith.com/10mm/4763-question-mr-heinie-regarding-10mm-longevity.html

Mr. Heine said he had 25,000 rounds through his 10mm 1911. He also mentioned a customer who "doesn't shoot wimp loads" having no mechanical issues with his 1911. In another thread, Mr. Heine said: "If I could only own one Pistol, it would be a very hard choice, but I believe in the end I would keep the 10 and let the others go."

jackpinesavages
May 30, 2011, 01:34 AM
S&W 1076. I have 2 of them and they are incredible. Tanks.

Polar Express
June 6, 2011, 03:05 AM
Thanks for starting this thread, and for all those that posted. I too, am looking to pick up a 10mm. I certainly respect the Glock design, but I don't care for how they feel in my hand. I have shot the 20, about 20 years ago. It didn't seem unreasonable for recoil or behavior, I just don't like how they feel.

I am strongly considering a 1911-based 10mm, thinking along the lines of a Delta Elite. I don't need this gun to be fancy, or 'custom', and I don't plan on high-round count. Which is one reason I like the 1911 design for familiarity in my hand.

Just like one poster wrote, I DO like the M&P line, and if they did offer one, I'd hand over my card instantly.

Thanks again for all the folks offering personal knowledge and experience. I enjoy that about this forum!

PE

Mainsail
June 6, 2011, 11:53 AM
...I don't care for how they feel in my hand. I have shot the 20, about 20 years ago. It didn't seem unreasonable for recoil or behavior, I just don't like how they feel.

I hated the way the Glock 20 felt in my hand. Now I own both the G20 and a G29, or more correctly, the G20SF and G29SF. The short frame versions feel like a totally different gun. Try one of the SF models on for size before you dismiss the Glock.

MachIVshooter
June 6, 2011, 12:18 PM
S&W 1006 series. I have heard that the S&W wears out relatively quickly and tends to develop the "baby rattle"

That's just funny. As others have already mentioned, it's about the toughest gun out there so chambered. I've hammered my 1006 with nuclear loads, the gun is just fine.

The Glock 20 is also plenty tough, though the stock barrel should be ditched to run full power stuff due to the well known lack of chamber support.

The Witness, as long as it isn't one of the rounded slide models (short production run) can eaily take the hot stuff. I have two of them.

1911 10mm's-lighter built than the 1006, I don't put them through as much punishment. I have more moderate (~600-650 ft/lb) loads for use in my Kimber Stainless Target II. I've shot the hot stuff through it, but don't do so with the frequency I do with the 1006 or Witnesses.

Another option (though still not made in the USA) is the Sarsilmaz K2. A larger framed gun, it holds 17+1 in 10mm and can handle the cartridge easily.

Of current production US made 10mm's, you're stuck with the 1911 platform. I understand the desire to buy "Made In USA", and try to do so myself whenever possible. But if what you want isn't made here, no one can fault you for buying an import, especially if you're not just buying chinese junk to save money.

Kitt
June 6, 2011, 04:24 PM
I see a few Dan Wesson/CZ 10mm for sale and the ones I've seen have been very well made...I have a CBOB that shoots great and after a few tweeks it was ready to go.
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo130/LWKITT/bushmaster015.jpg

Stevie-Ray
June 6, 2011, 08:46 PM
old Delta Elite's had some hiccups If it was anything but the frame cracking I don't know about it. The crack didn't affect function and the fix was to mill out the portion of the frame that was cracked.:rolleyes: Other than that I never heard anything and certainly didn't experience anything. My Delta has been perfect from day one and for over 20 years. It's hogwash for anybody to think the Delta hasn't proven itself able to handle the 10mm round; my own is proof positive, IMO.

FlyinBryan
June 6, 2011, 10:39 PM
That's just funny. As others have already mentioned, it's about the toughest gun out there so chambered. I've hammered my 1006 with nuclear loads, the gun is just fine.

i urge you not to use thermonuclear propellants unless you have the appropriate background and experience in thermo nuclear physics.

cooling, radiation, and overpressure signs are extremely easy to miss for novice/apprentice sub-atomic reloaders.

i would suggest dabbling in hydrogen before graduating to the sub-atomic level.

MachIVshooter
June 7, 2011, 07:38 AM
i urge you not to use thermonuclear propellants unless you have the appropriate background and experience in thermo nuclear physics.

cooling, radiation, and overpressure signs are extremely easy to miss for novice/apprentice sub-atomic reloaders.

i would suggest dabbling in hydrogen before graduating to the sub-atomic level.

Just a small dose of Pu-239. I wear a lead vest while loading and shooting ;)

Casefull
June 7, 2011, 10:11 PM
I love my g20 and I have a couple of witnesses. The witnesses have nicer triggers and are easier to shoot accurately but the glock has a wolf barrel, steel guide rod and heavy recoil spring. It is a beast that handles heavy loads easily. My next is going to be the kimber 1911 style.

tinygnat219
June 8, 2011, 09:03 AM
To the OP:
So I haven't bought a gun in a while and I think I'm going through withdrawal I'm extremely pleased with my Glock 20SF but I'd really like something with "Made in America" stamped on it. A quick google search shows me the Kimber Eclipse Custom II, Colt Delta Elite, and S&W 1006 series. I have heard that the S&W wears out relatively quickly and tends to develop the "baby rattle" and that the old Delta Elite's had some hiccups but the post 2009 models had solved them. I haven't heard a thing about the Kimber. I don't have any firsthand experience with any of them.

Buying "made in America" 10MM? Your choices are extremely limited in current production to 1911 platforms. STI, Colt, Kimber, etc. are the ones that make guns chambered in this.

Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge with any of the above and if so, what was your experience? What would you suggest and why?
I currently own a Glock 20 and IMHO, this is the best platform made to digest the 10MM round. It's still in production, cost is reasonable, and there's a lifetime warranty for it as well. If you'd like some accessories / aftermarket parts. They are there.
Whoever told you the 10XX series from S&W was fragile has no idea of what they talk about. These are stainless steel guns made to be robust and designed for the 10MM round. I have a 1076 that's been pretty flawless in operation. S&W discontinued the series as the marketplace for the 10MM round pretty much dried up.

Boothdt
June 14, 2011, 07:05 PM
Thanks for the info and tips guys. I'm thinkin I'm going to track down a 1006 or 1076. I'd def be all over an M&P 10mm as well :) Def like the ergonomics of the grip and fram angle.

psyshack
June 14, 2011, 10:42 PM
I look forward to a G20 with 6" barrels in 10mm and 9x25 Dillon. :)

ranburr
June 14, 2011, 11:18 PM
I have owned a number of 10mms over the yrs, they have all been extremely accurate and reliable. I currently have a Les Baer, Dan Wesson Razorback, and a Tanfoglio/Witness Elite Stock. The Elite Stock is the most accurate followed closely by the DW.

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