What's the most accurate reloading manuel ?


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jcerillo70
May 30, 2011, 11:03 PM
I have the most recent lee reloading Manuel, but the powder weights seem to be way off compared to most books. I've heard good things about the lyman book.

I just want something with the recommended powder charges so i dont have to ask here for every powder or bullet i try.

Thanks guys

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cfullgraf
May 30, 2011, 11:37 PM
There is no such thing a "the most accurate" reloading manual.

Manuals such as Lee and Lyman provide a smorgasbord of data on a variety of components. Manuals from the bullet manufacturers include only their bullets with a variety of powders. Manuals from powder manufacturers include only their powder with a variety of bullets. Imagine that!

Lots of things affect what the manual authors find for their load data. The gun or test barrel, the atmospheric conditions, components used, and a pass through the lawyer's office can have profound affects on the data to name a few. There are others.

Most reloaders have a a number of manuals from different sources.

You will find that most data for similar components and the same cartridge really do not vary much between each one.

Finally, you will need to work up the load in your firearm regardless what the manual says. Your firearm may react differently that the set up to develop the printed data.

Not the answer you were looking for but i hope it helps.

HOWARD J
May 30, 2011, 11:41 PM
What makes you think what we tell you will be gospel?
Get yourself a number of books--start out using the starter loads or close to them.
Slowly work up you load--when you find an accurate load for that weapon--you have arrived.
You don't need max load for every shot--they are hard on weapons.
Have fun

1SOW
May 30, 2011, 11:43 PM
cfullgraph: +1!

'Chuck' and I agree. Part of reloading is to "develop" a load for your bullet and powder in your gun using printed load data to do it safely.


I just want something with the recommended powder charges so i dont have to ask here for every powder or bullet i try.



That's not the case for pistol loads. The published load data gives a range of "safe" loads for different powders and bullet weights & nose-types (FMJ, JHP, JFN, LRN etc.). If you find load data for a powder that has a fairly "wide" range of loads, it gives you a bigger safety margin for load development. If you use the same bullet weight AND type/nose shape bullet and start at the low end of the data, you can safely test your new bullet and work up to the load you prefer.

For your pistols, 9mm loads are the most sensitive to smaller changes because of the small case volume. Compare Win 231/HP-38 to say Vihtavuori 320 load ranges as an example. The Win231 (same as HP-38) has a wider load range for each bullet published than Vit n320 or 310. The Win 231 is more 'forgiving'/less sensitive to small changes. Win 231/HP-38 is used for 9mm and 45ACP by many.

Hope this makes sense..

Tomcat47
May 30, 2011, 11:56 PM
I Agree There is No Most Accurate book.

I Have:

Sierra
Nosler
Lyman
Lee
Hornady
Thompson Contender (kinda Specialty manual)

Anyway I use them all and work loads between all of them. The Bigger the Library, the better! I love them all.

I think they each have some of my favorite loads or info in them!

FROGO207
May 31, 2011, 12:27 AM
Yes every book will be "most accurate" for the firearm/complainants/conditions when worked up. Now you CAN"T duplicate the exact same conditions. The info is meant as a safe guideline for you to consider as a max load. I would not consider less than 3 sources for each loading before I attempt to load my own and use them all to form my own opinion about a safe load. There are on line manuals so you don't have to buy them for the major powder and some bullet manufacturers that can help you reload safely.

J_McLeod
May 31, 2011, 12:33 AM
I use Hodgdon's powder and find thier data to be the most accurate. For example, Lyman gives a charge range of 3.3-4.9gr of 231 with a 115gr FMJ, while Hodgdon says to start at 4.7gr. My XD doesn't reliably cycle until I use 4.5 or more.

bubbacrabb
May 31, 2011, 03:15 AM
They are a little different. I use:
Lee
Hornady
Lyman
I think they all have their place. One of the most important reloading books I have now though is:
Bubbacrabb's reloading manual for bubbacrabb's guns.
I keep this journal going with notes on what I liked, what I didnt like and the best load i've found that I liked the best in the variety of weapons I shoot. I tend to open that thing up more than I do any of the others. You just need to start loading and figure it out, start low work up.

gamestalker
May 31, 2011, 04:47 AM
I use my bullet manufacturer books, powder manufacturer books, and the One Cartridge/One book. It's so nice to have multiple refrences, doing so helps eliminate loading issues quicker, and also provides various perspectives for me to utilize.

loadedround
May 31, 2011, 08:38 AM
The most accurate loading manual is the one in front of you when you start loading. Otherwise there is no such thing.

earlthegoat2
May 31, 2011, 08:57 AM
The one you make yourself from meticulous testing with different loads for a particular rifle

Everything else is just an educated guess but still good general information.

ranger335v
May 31, 2011, 10:02 AM
There are indeed differences between loading books. But, we can be sure that no book maker provides foolish data so there is no stand out that's better than others. Sorry, it would be nice, but there is no such book, they are simply guides to get us started and set a reasonable stop point.

IF all the book makers used the same test firearms and bullets, powder and primer lots and cases they would likely present very much the same data. Our rigs and components are different from theirs. Therefore, the book variations should give us a clue that our rigs can't be expected to mathatically duplicate any one manual. WE have to make sure we know what WE are doing because only WE can make sure what we load is safe for US.

The Bushmaster
May 31, 2011, 10:15 AM
Read and weap...Comments 1 through 6 are the answers you were looking for. There is no "most accurate" loading data manual. That's why it behoves you to have at least 3 (or more) loading data manuals to compare to and pick a starting load and work up. I nor anyone else on here can give you a load that will short cut the process. Soooo...Sit down at your loading bench and get busy learning what we already know.

06
May 31, 2011, 11:10 AM
I use a Lyman and a Speer. Often there is a big difference in what amount they specify. That is why I check with my reloading guru and powder web sites also. Way too much excitement going on next to my nose to take chances.

RidgwayCO
May 31, 2011, 11:29 AM
I use the Lyman #49, Hornady #6, Speer #14, and Accurate #2 manuals (and several older ones kept for reference). In my experience, the Speer manual usually provides chronographed results closer to what the book says than the others. YMMV

jcwit
May 31, 2011, 11:39 AM
All manuals are as accurate as far as the lawyers allow them to be!

jcerillo70
May 31, 2011, 12:45 PM
So im going to start by ordering

1."Lyman "Reloading Handbook: 49th Edition" Reloading Manual Hardcover"
2."Sierra "5th Edition Rifle and Pistol Manual of Reloading Data" Reloading Manual"

They're both rated 5 stars on midway.

What do you guys think about those two, plus my lee modern reloading manuel i have now. Any other recommendations?

Clark
May 31, 2011, 01:27 PM
cfullgraf
There is no such thing a "the most accurate" reloading manual.

I just threw "Speer 11" at my wife's cat, and got a direct hit.

RandyP
May 31, 2011, 03:12 PM
You didn't mention, but shall we presume you want to reload 9mm, .45ACP and .223?

If so you have more than sufficient tested data to proceed with all the manuals you mention. Probably much more data than you will ever use.

All manuals do is compile data showing exactly what they tested and what results they achieved with a given set of components and testing equipment. Some do their own in-house testing others, like Lee, compile data results from others.

You also will get good load data from the various powder or bullet manufacturers' websites. For example, I use Hodgdon powder and visit their reloading database at:

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Cosmoline
May 31, 2011, 03:49 PM
The most precise data usually comes from bullet makers' manuals, because they had more time to focus on a much smaller selection of bullets. Ditto with powder maker's manuals, though not always.

But the best bet in general is to have a lot of manuals and to compare the listed data, then work up your loads to see what is the most accurate. Lee's manual and the loadbooks are usually where I start, but I may end up consulting four or five books plus back issues of handloader. The firearm itself creates all sorts of variables that no manual can predict, so you have to craft many loads and fire for effect to find the best.

Arkansas Paul
May 31, 2011, 03:52 PM
All manuals are as accurate as far as the lawyers allow them to be!


Or insurance companies, which would be close to the same thing.

Also, as has already been mentioned, every load that someone recommends, especially on the internet, should be checked by a manual or the powder companies website.
I have loaded loads that were recommended here on THR many times, but I have always double checked them to make sure they were within safe limits first.

RandyP
May 31, 2011, 04:38 PM
+1 on the notion of triple checking ALL data you read. Like a newsman once quipped, if your mother tells you it's raining outside? Check it out first before reporting it.

As your thread topic demonstrates (manuel vs manual) it is far too easy for spelling errors and typos with numbers to appear on the 'net. Even long time posters can create an error without realizing it. Check and verify, especially with things that go bang.

kingmt
May 31, 2011, 05:12 PM
One] of the most important reloading books I have now though is:
Bubbacrabb's reloading manual for bubbacrabb's guns.I haven't used the bubbacrabb's yet but I have one like it called kingmts loads.

Most of what I load there is no or very little data for it. If I don't know a powder I look for data that has close to the same burn rate & use the data for that to get an idea of what I'm doing.

Funshooter45
May 31, 2011, 06:34 PM
I just threw "Speer 11" at my wife's cat, and got a direct hit.

I think that choice of a projectile is entirely too heavy for cats. You would be better off using one of the Loadbooks pamphlets for varmints such as cats.

Clark
May 31, 2011, 07:41 PM
Funshooter45
Quote:
I just threw "Speer 11" at my wife's cat, and got a direct hit.
I think that choice of a projectile is entirely too heavy for cats. You would be better off using one of the Loadbooks pamphlets for varmints such as cats.

Speer 11 was plenty accurate, but now the varmint has been shot over, I may need a faster projectile.

357 Terms
May 31, 2011, 08:32 PM
One Book One Caliber. You can check the differences/discepantcies between many bullet manufactures. Also provides data from most of the major powder manufacturers. The first book I go to when starting a new load, on all the calibers I load for.

jcerillo70
May 31, 2011, 08:51 PM
I been using hodgdon and my lee book for a while now , its just the differences in loads are sometime exactly the same or way off.

for example, tonight im loading some 9mm & 45acp test rounds, while also testing 2 new powders. W231 & Tightgroup. So i usually load 10 of each.

9mm.124 gr. remington fmj
TG-
Lee says to use 4.1-4.4 gr for the 125 gr bullet. as does hodgdon. so thats all good. I loaded up a few at 4.1-4.2 gr. (My powder measure is +/- 0.1) so i think i am good at that number im at, ill load up 10 more at 4.3-4.4 gr. and try those tomorrow.

W231-
Hodgdon > 4.4-4.8gr
Lee>4.2-4.5 gr

Now Here's where it gets tricky to me, because hodgdon's min charge is almost at lee's max charge. with the 125 gr bullet again(its really 124 gr)

45ACP. 200 gr. Cast LSWC (bulleye idp #1)

TG-

Hodgedon- 4.8-5.4 gr
Lee > 4.8-5.4
*Great*

W231-
Hodge> 4.4-5.6
Lee > 4.8-5.5

Another example where the min charge show a large varience beween the two.

In my research good loads for these rounds via other's experience are (i loaded up 50 of these each)

9mm 124 gr remington fmj
>4.1-4.2 gr tightgroup or 4.3-4.4 of win231

45 acp 200gr lswc (MBC)
>4.5-4.7 gr Tightgroup or 5.1-5.3 gr. of Win231

bds
May 31, 2011, 09:03 PM
<jcerillo, you posted while I replied so I'll response to your latest post on a different post>

As many posted, there is none but here's why.

Most powder/bullet manufacturers use test barrel fixtures to measure chamber pressures and velocities to develop their published load data. Most reloading manuals will indicate the use of a Universal Receiver with barrel length, twist rate and groove diameter.

When we use these published load data for our pistols/rifles, we have to factor in the production variations that differ for makes and models as to barrel lengths, twist rates, groove diameter, types of rifling (land/groove vs hill/valley/polygonal), leade distance, etc. all of which will affect chamber pressure consistency.

When you add to this the powder lot variations and formulation changes, answer to your question of "What's the most accurate reloading manual?" becomes a louder none.

For these reasons, most reloaders will use the published load data as guides and conduct their own load work ups to determine the most accurate loads without exceeding published max (which varies too :uhoh:).

For me, holes on target speaks volumes. I will use the OALs that reliably feed/chamber from the magazine and determine the powder charges that produce the smallest consistent shot groups. If you want the most accurate loads for your firearms, you just gotta do your own work ups.

bds
May 31, 2011, 09:25 PM
Lee does not list OAL used like most other load data. Variations in load data you see are often reflective of different OALs used as different bullet nose profile will affect how deep the bullet base will get seated inside the case neck and increase/decrease the chamber pressure.

If you want some more load data to compare, Lyman #49 indicates the following for 45ACP 200 gr LSWC at 1.235" OAL:

Titegroup: Start 4.8 gr (801 fps) - Max 5.4 gr (920 fps)
W231: Start 5.4 gr (769 fps) - Max 6.1 gr (885 fps)


Let us know how they shoot.

kingmt
June 1, 2011, 05:34 PM
For pistol I normally take the starting load & work down to where my pistol stops functioning so I know where my minimum is then work from there.

jcerillo70
June 2, 2011, 01:18 PM
Ends up between the two powders, W231 prevailed over tightgroup in both 9mm & 45acp

Winners are

1)124 gr. 9mm- 4.7 gr Win231
2)200 gr cast swc 45 acp - 5.5 gr win 231

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g426/Jcerillo70/photo-1.jpg

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