[Cosmoline]

After years of only having a few old Mosins to shoot, I'm finally going to splurge next month and get one really nice new (or new to me) rifle. I've already got a good trail rifle, and the Mosins for range and such. I do not have a scoped hunting rifle, but my schedule is such that small game hunting is the only realistic hunt on my agenda for the next few years. Cost needs to be under two grand. This is about ten times what I'm used to spending on any firearm, so I thought I'd kick this out to the group for thoughts.

I have zero experience with AR's but right now the market is full of them and they're remarkably affordable. So this might be a good time to make that leap.

Never had a Garand due to high costs. It's not terribly practical but it would make a fun range gun.

Always wanted a fine Mannlicher-Schoenauer and I bought a box of 6.5 MS brass once just on hopes I could one day find a gun for it ;-)

The flintlock build is another option, though not really that new to me.

The PSL is probably the cheapest, but also the most risky. Reports are mixed with these.

And I'm sure I'm overlooking options so feel free to suggest! Practicality isn't really the issue this time.

[IlikeSA]

Since you mentioned small game hunting, and the fact you didn't have a scoped rifle, how about a good scoped .22?

Then you can take the other 1500 dollars and put it into another rifle of your choice. Maybe the Garand since you have long range and trail gun already covered. Or you could look at the new Ruger Scout rifle in 308. They seem to have good reviews as a scout rifle and as a medium range rifle as well.

[Cosmoline]

I should have added the Ruger scout. I was thinking about it, though the big magazine seems oddly placed.

I've got my old CZ 452, killer of squirrels. I may put a scope on it now that my eyes are over 40, but I don't think I'll get another .22. Jealousy issues and such.

[451 Detonics]

I would give serious consideration to either a DSA FAL or PTR 91. I like the ARs and the .223 round but I really prefer the extra oomph provided by the 7.62X51 round. And if you price the cost of magazines into the equation the PTR is a big winner with steel HK mags as low as 2 dollars apiece, compare that to $26 bucks for a mag for the AR 10. Not to mention how cheap other parts are right now.

[ForumSurfer]

I don't think I'll get another .22. Jealousy issues and such.

22's have no moral character, you cn keep as many around as you can afford.

They also have no loyalty. You'll need to watch them or they will run away with neighbors, relatives or significant others....

I'd figure out a use before I decided. If it is for plinking or general shooting, decided on an action you really like. I love my AR, but honestly I'd be happy with about 2 or 3 lever guns in varying calibers...which is a problem soon to be remedied. :)

[Huntin'Gun]

You mentioned a scoped rifle, and you mentioned small game.

I think you need a CZ in 22 hornet. Classy gun, and a perfect cartridge for small game.

[Cosmoline]

You'll need to watch them or they will run away with neighbors, relatives or significant others....

True enough. My old CZ actually did that. I bartered it back with the only thing that would work--another CZ 452 in better condition. But I don't need another .22 rimfire at the moment. I have been thinking about a .32-20 levergun, though. And the hornet sounds interesting.

[ForumSurfer]

Well slap a good scope on a good AR-10 and you'll be all set for some great medium to long range performance. I enjoyed the AR-10 I had briefly, but not enough to keep it. I'm glad I didn't buy it new as I was able to actually turn a small profit when I sold it. If you can be patient and find an AR-10 at a really good buy, they are really easy to turn around and sell if you find that it isn't for you.

[Sheepdog1968]

I choose other. I'm a big fan of lever actions. That wasn't always the case as I used to really prefer semi-autos. Now, the lever action is what leaves with my about 75% of the time I take a firearm out. 30-30, 22 LR, and 45-70 all are great fun and range somewhere around 500 to 1000 depending on which one you choose. I'm finding lately that my friends rolling block single shot in 45-70 is also a lot of fun with that rear tang sight.

[fragout]

Other= M1A/M14S

If you like shooting the M1, you should try on one of the M14 types out there.

Springfield Armory
Fulton Armory
LRB Arms
762MM Firearms
Smith Enterprise Inc.


Try out a few others as well before pulling out your wallet, and see which one fits the best for you.

11B

[Robert]

Howdah Pistol :D

What do you have in the big bore range? A 45-70 lever gun is a heck of a short to medium range thumper.

[MikeKeyW]

I also vote for the M-1A, love my NM and ART scope. My HK-91 comes in 2nd.

[Cosmoline]

M1A sounds interesting. There are a lot on the secondary market, which makes me a little leery. They're not light rifles, that's for sure.

What do you have in the big bore range? A 45-70 lever gun is a heck of a short to medium range thumper.

I've got that covered with my Big Bore 94 in .450 Marlin. A bolt action .450 Marlin should be on that list, though. If such a thing can be found.

[T.R.]

Marlin builds a big game rifle chambered for 338 Marlin Express. It features American engineering, American craftsmanship, and exceptional balance. The 338 Express hits hard like a 30-06 well beyond 300 yards or so but in a lever action rifle.

Good shooting to you.

TR

[Boomie]

For the CMP Garands, why high grade? That's pretty much a collector's piece. If you want a shooting rifle, the service grades are where it's at. I just ordered an H&R. It came in looking like a brand new rifle (with a brand new stock). Throat and Muzzle were 2's. This thing shoots very well. You can get the rifle and 192 rounds of ammo shipped for about $700. With a $30 adjustable gas nut you can shoot any hunting or target 30-06 ammo you want.

[stevelyn]

Mebbe you should consider the AR-15 since it looks like the timing is right for it from what you describe.

I think if you are a gun owner an AR should be in your inventory. It's minuteman rifle of our time.

[Cosmoline]

That .338 sounds interesting. Apparently it was Chuck Hawk's idea.

Re. Garand grades I'm no expert. I just want one that isn't a sewer pipe. .30'06 ball ammo is the big problem there. I cannot get loaded ammunition shipped to me through ordinary routes. It would have to literally be shipped on a barge from Seattle on a pallet. So I guess I could buy a lifetime supply ;-) Otherwise I either have to handload even the plinking ammo or rely on the local ammo supply outfits that charge a small fortune for the stuff.

[Smithiac]

If cost isn't an issure buy them all!!!

[blackDdefense]

Check out the LMT 308MWS...mine shoots 4.5" groups at 600...

[amlevin]

Why not get a good bolt action chambered for .223? Lots of ammo and that way should you decide to add an AR at a later date you'll have plenty of ammo for it too.

Take a look at the Remington 700 SS 5-R milspec in .223. Have seen them for around $900. A good scope should run you another $600 or so, depending on how big a "Name" you want. Whole deal, including scope mounts should be well under $2000 and you'd not only have a good Varmint Rifle but a "tack driving " target rifle as well, depending on ammo quality.

I've got one in .308 and it's very rewarding to shoot.

[Cosmoline]

I had a x39 bolt action from CZ. I liked it, but I've sort of been there done that with intermediate bolt actions.

[smartshooter.45]

Hey dude,

After reading your post it sounds like you are a rifle man with a do it yourself attitude. great! I would recommend the 556 AR 15. As im sure you know the AR platform is the best for folks who like to tinker.

I started with an inexpensive, but quality, double star. after many mods it is a super accurate, insanely fun rifle. I change optics often so feels like a new rifle with a new set of challenges.

Good luck!

[Sheepdog1968]

I will toss out another idea. How about a really nice bolt action 22 LR with very nice wood stock? They're some really pretty ones out there. From OP, it sounds like you are just looking for something interesting rather than to fit a specific purpose.

FWIW, I just to back from a cruise to Alaska (Ketickan, Juno, Icy Straights). It sure is pretty up there.

[C-grunt]

I voted AR. Most people find them to be a joy to shoot. Great iron sights, easily upgradeable and can fill several roles. They really are very easy to learn to shoot well. My little sister (19 year old college student) was shooting the half sazed silhouette targets at 200 yards with my Noveske topped with a 1-4 powered Leupold. This was after maybe 30 minutes of instruction and practice. Very easy rifle to shoot well.

In your price range look at:

Daniel Defense... ($1100 and up)
Colt... (6920s can be had for under 1k now)
LMT... ($1000 and up)
KAC... (right at 2k but LOTS of upgrades, Stoners final revision of the rifle)
Noveske.... (Very accurate rifles, $1500 and up)
BCM.... (have both stainless and chrome lined models, $900 and up)

[Rifleman 173]

Another vote for a good M-1A or a good bolt action Remington/Savage rifle of some sort. I'd go M-1A first if given the chance.

[fragout]

A std model M1A, Scout, and Socom 16 weigh less than an M1 Garand, and around the same as an AR10. A National Match/Super Match is a whole other animal in terms of weight and intended purpose.

A used M1A will in most cases retain it's value from what I have seen, and SAI's warranty travels with the rifle, so it would be covered ifn;s there is issues with a specific rifle.

One thing to consider is the costs of ammunition involved. 7.62x39mm and 5.56mm cost less as compared to most others.

If the cost of 7.62x51mm is too much for you to enjoy your rifle, look at others chambered for the 2 calibers mentioned above, although reloading your own may help in this department.

On the flip side, I do not see the costs of getting into an M1A, AR10, etc.....getting any less in the future either. M1 Garands will eventually dry up, and with it...go up in costs as well.

Besides...... thats what a 10-22 is good for in terms of ammunition costs.:)

11B

[cthulhufan]

The PSL sure is a hoot, but you've already got 54R covered with your Mosin(s).

I purchased a new Marlin 336 stainless 30-30 a few months back and it is now my second favorite gun next to my CZ-452 Lux. Narry a factory round through her, been loading those Hornady FTX rounds up. Very fun rifle. Very practical rifle. Worth a look.

[Hocka Louis]

AR's are very common today, u r right. And a well made bargain can be had inexpensively, relatively.

But the point I really wanted to make? They are neat and fun to shoot.

Gehr

[nyc71]

M1A Scout Squad arrived yesterday, a Marlin 336 30-30 & a Henry 22lr are on the way. The AK just happen to be in stock when I got the M1a so I brought her home too.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"- Benjamin Franklin

[cthulhufan]

God bless America, the M1A is a fine rifle. I can't wait to get mine.

[JackCrow]

As the proud owner of a Manlicher-Schoenauer (.243) I'll throw a vote in for one.
An elegant, beautifully engineered rifle that is a joy to shoot.

In second place I would nominate the M1 Garand, another great rifle that is revered for good reasons. Can't go wrong with the M1.

Whatever you decide good luck and enjoy the journey.

Cheers!

[Old krow]

My vote is for the AR15 if you do not have one. You should be able to find one at a good price. Ammo is relatively cheap, it's common, and there is large after market for parts.

It isn't my favorite choice of your list, but I think that it is a decent time to buy one. But then again, it's a good time to buy any of them.

[CZguy]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/M1I.jpg

If seeing that doesn't get your interest, then you probably should just buy an AR.

[fragout]

Nice looking M1 CZguy;)

11B

[cthulhufan]

Absolutely gorgeous, CZGuy.

I'm sorry, to the original poster, I think you had two grand to spend and I was trying to side track you on a $600 dollar Marlin. Looking at that M1, I can tell you where I'd spend my money.

I hope you enjoy whatever you end up with. What a fun problem to have.

EDIT: What wood is the forestock/buttstock made of on that M1? What do you technically call that anyway on a two or three piece stock? The main stock? Did you use oil for the finish? Looks a lot like linseed oil but with a bit more satin or perhaps age.

[Erik M]

I voted for the AR15 because a high grade one would be easy to procure, but if you are able to purchase a CMP Garand I don't think you'll regret it.

[CZguy]

EDIT: What wood is the forestock/buttstock made of on that M1? What do you technically call that anyway on a two or three piece stock? The main stock? Did you use oil for the finish? Looks a lot like linseed oil but with a bit more satin or perhaps age.


That is a CMP birch stock, with about five coats of hand rubbed BLO. This rifle was a service grade Springfield armory from the CMP. It was made in 1955 and it took me two years, but it's all correct now with all SA parts, except the stock, which I don't mind one bit.

To me there is just something particularly satisfying about shooting an M1 at 600 yards with iron sights, and getting good hits.

Don't get me wrong I like ARs also, there's just something about shooting an M1, that really appeals to me.

[CZguy]

Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 6.5 MS

This is high up on my list of dream rifles, but It's just not in the budget right now.

But I can dream.

[ExAgoradzo]

Mannlicher for the cool looks factor.

[Cosmoline]

Lots of food for thought here. Thanks!

[CZguy]

Lots of food for thought here. Thanks!


When you decide lets us know.

Ah heck, give us a hint..........which way are you leaning.

[Rshooter]

I voted for the Garand, a great rifle. An AR would be second on my list.

[amflyer]

Cosmoline, if your are remotely interested in the Ruger scout and have a budget of 2K, why not pick up the real thing. Steyr scout, Leupold IER scope and Talley rings. If you look around, you can get all three for the 2K.

[amflyer]

Or for a bit more, you can have the complete setup for $400 bucks over budget. One of 300 too:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=233390553

[ForumSurfer]

Ah heck, give us a hint..........which way are you leaning.

Inquiring minds want to know...

I am currently wallowing in my own indecisiveness, so I want to see someone make a decision. :)

I'm trying to decide on buying myself and the boys a round of 22 lever guns and a single six or just buying a lever in 30-30 (or 357/38) along with a blackhawk in 357. I've got single action and lever action fever since my collection of shooters is lacking those items currently. It doesn't help that they are replaying young guns over and over on TV....

[Cosmoline]

At this point I'm seriously thinking about just flat-out getting whatever the poll says. I can see merits to all of the above and more. So based on the poll it will either be an M1 or an AR. I might include M1A in the M1 category.

AMflyer--I'm inclined to agree with you, but that's a bit over the budget at this point.

[ghostwn]

The M1 Garand was good for its day. Mighty fine rifle. The weapon that seems to follow you to civilain life is the weapon your taught to shoot in the military. So for me, its was the AR, and now its a piston AR. :D

[JoeMal]

AR and a .22, spend the rest on ammo

[mr.trooper]

Nothing says 'class' like a Manlicher.

[Cosmoline]

Looks like a dead heat between the Garand and the AR. I've decided to go rifle shopping Friday so we'll see what's up then.

[USAF_Vet]

My initial vote went to the Garand, but I'd like to change my vote to the PSL.

Since you already own Mosion Nagant's the PSL makes sense, considering you probably already have a spam can or two full of 7.62x54R. Why change ammo just becuase you're getting a new rifle.

I've been wanting a AK based rifle, and also having Mosin Nagant's and plenty of 54r, the PSL just makes sense.

[Hal Carter]

DSA FN or PTR 91. This would be my choice too. These are true battle rifles, and even though they probably will not be used for this purpose, there are a lot of things you can do with a 7.62 nato. Either of these guns can be bought now for around 11-1200. You could shoot them all you want and still be able to leave your children a really nice gun that they may not be able to get some day.
Spare parts are easy to find.

[Cosmoline]

All right folks! You voted for it, and I bought it!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/ar15-1.jpg

It's a gently used Colt AR-15 A2 "Government Carbine" model 6520. I don't know much about any AR's, but a little voice told me this one was skookum. It may have been the voice of the big guy behind the counter. Price was a bit over a grand, which is on par with what they're going for on GB and probably less than what they were selling for a year ago.

Did I do good? I'm going to test it out soon. It appears to be something Colt churned out post-ban to sell to LEO's only because of the AWB features. It has a scary warning label on it about only being for sale to law enforcement. But all that is moot since the sunset as I understand it.


Barrel twist is 1:7 which favors the heavy bullets as I understand it. Heavy being a relative term here. I picked up some 70-something match rounds that look to be about right. One question--the lower on this thing says "223" but the barrel says 5.56. I notice some 5.56 ammo says do not use in firearms chambered for .223, I guess because of the minor dimensional and pressure differences. Is this one OK to shoot both out of?

I can't see too much practical field use unless I get a new upper, but it will be very useful for two things--practice and training. I can do one of these tactical carbine courses now.

I kind of like the "old school" carry handle. I notice the new ones are all flat on top and many seemed to have no irons at all in the shop. I looked at a very cool little scope that fits right on top of the handle. Very clear image with a cross that magically lights up, but the thing cost nearly as much as the rifle!

Another question--is it OK to pop this thing in half for transport? There are just two little pins holding the upper and lower together, and if I remove them it's much easier to stow the rifle. Is that kosher? I'm used to hauling M39 Mosins and many pounds of 54R to the range by bicycle, so this should be comparatively easy.

[Dr T]

I would go with the MS. Get a full stocked carbine with the double set triggers. While I ma not wild about the 6.5 MS chambering (and would personally prefer something based on the 308 or 7x57 case because of brass availability--or even a 6.5 Cr), you do already have one box of brass.

I think that a MS carbine in 7-08 would be a pretty well-balanced little rifle.

[Cosmoline]

DR. T--I absolutely will one day, but the prices on those classics have gone out of my current reach. I like the 9mm ones as well. But the only M-S currently in reach are sporterized Greek surplus so I decided to wait on that project.

[chrome_austex]

You did great!

Absolutely, pull those two 'take down pins' and transport it in two peices!

That 1/7 twist should be ok for 55gr through 80 grain bullets and anything in between.

Forget what the lower says, if the barrel says 5.56, then that's a good indication that the chamber is 5.56 (allowing both 223 and 5.56).

Now go register for that class!

[Cosmoline]

Thanks! Kind of surprised me that this "high tech" rifle is using PINS to hold together pretty much like flintlocks 200 years ago. Actually in doing my initial cleaning and overview I've been surprised how simple this thing is. I'd been led to believe that AR's were these nightmares of complexity, but in fact the first level of the teardown is actually easier than an AK-47. Granted the malfunction flow chart on this thing is several pages long but I suspect the serious problems come if you let it get nasty inside. And that's true of most firearms.

[gotigers]

DANIEL DEFENSE V5

That is one of the finest mid-priced ARs out IMHO. Light weight, cold hammer forged barrel, midlength, great parts, etc.

[ForumSurfer]

Another question--is it OK to pop this thing in half for transport? There are just two little pins holding the upper and lower together, and if I remove them it's much easier to stow the rifle. Is that kosher?Yep. I carried two uppers shooting, so no worries. One was a 24" and the other was a standard carbine. The 24" upper (now sold) looked just plain silly on a lower with a magpul ctr carbine stock, but it was the only way my sons could get a good grip on the rifle. Adjustable stocks are great for that tactical look, adjusting for different types of clothing and letting small children get in on the fun. :neener:

I kind of like the "old school" carry handle.Me, too. I wish I had a detachable one. I can't get by without at least some backup irons. I like shooting with irons only most of the time. As a matter of fact, recent horsetrading has left me without any optics for my ar...at all.

Forget what the lower says, if the barrel says 5.56, then that's a good indication that the chamber is 5.56 (allowing both 223 and 5.56).

What he said.

[Skylerbone]

Also noticed you've got a B.A.D. lever on it (Battery Assist Device) which is not original to the rifle. I don't have any experience with them but you can google it for opinions, they do seem popular. If you get tired of irons which are great fun, take time in choosing optics. Anything mounted to the carry handle will have a single hole for attachment and is subject to movement.

Excellent purchase with money to spare and plentiful ammo.

[ForumSurfer]

Also noticed you've got a B.A.D. lever on it (Battery Assist Device) which is not original to the rifle. I don't have any experience with them but you can google it for opinions, they do seem popular.

I've heard good and bad things. Guys that take courses seem to love them. I've heard others say they've gotten debris jammed up in there. If you decide it isn't for you, mail it to me and I'll ship you a magpul pmag for harsh, alaskan weather evaluation :)

[Cosmoline]

I suspect there are better models out there (and more expensive ones), but this one looked like a good starter since I'm not sure about what I want to add if anything as far as optics and such. If I do end up with something tricked out in those chambers named after old Germanic folk tales, I'll likely get my own lower and upper. This one sounds like it will do well enough for basic range and training work. I'm going to zero it in tomorrow and see how it shoots.

The expanding stock is neat but doesn't expand quite enough for me. I'm sure there are some aftermarket fixes for that though.

[MikePaiN]

Cosmo., I've been toying with the idea of adding a NATO cal. rifle to my collection(now I only have a .30carbine and .22lr). Ever since I saw the new Ruger Gunsite Scout in .308win I knew I'd have to have one :)
These are extremely versatile weapons and would be great for many roles which seems like what you are looking for. At ~$750 NIB not a bad value either.
The reviews have been great...I figure adding ~$250 for a Bushy scout scope and this would be a good to go setup
...Did I mention its a great looking rifle..? ;)

http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/images/6803.jpg
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/rifles/2011/02/petzals-take-ruger-gunsite-scout-rifle

[garyhan]

If you can afford a Mannlicher Schoenauer, get it now. You'll never regret it and it will never be more affordable.

gary

[CZguy]

All right folks! You voted for it, and I bought it!


Congratulations, that sounds like democracy in action.............hey wait a minute, isn't that how we got our current president. :D

I think that you are going to have a lot of fun with that rifle.