Can it be done? Or what are the requirements for a new build?


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kempfera
June 3, 2011, 05:42 PM
I think it really sucks having to pay $K$K$K$K to purchase a full-auto weapon that retails for the same price or less than a semi-auto weapon. Is there anyway a person can legally their own full auto weapon and have it registered?

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rcmodel
June 3, 2011, 05:48 PM
No.

Not unless you are a licensed Class 3 manufacture making a salesman sample gun.

In simplest terms:
No new full-auto weapons can be made, converted, or registered since the passage of the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act.

If it was a registered machinegun on May 19, 1986, it is still legal.
If it wasn't, it isn't, and can't be.

rc

Gord
June 3, 2011, 05:58 PM
Is there anyway a person can legally their own full auto weapon and have it registered?

If there was, they wouldn't cost "$K$K$K$K," now would they? :)

Bubbles
June 3, 2011, 06:18 PM
I think it really sucks having to pay $K$K$K$K to purchase a full-auto weapon that retails for the same price or less than a semi-auto weapon. Is there anyway a person can legally their own full auto weapon and have it registered?
1. Obtain Type 07 FFL ($150/3 years) or Type 10 FFL ($3000/3 years).
2. Pay SOT ($500/year)
3. Pay ITAR ($2250/year)
4. Pay for insurance, rent, equipment and machinery, supplies, utilities, etc ($XX,XXX last year alone)
5. Build what you want.

If you ever give up the FFL/SOT you must 1) sell the machine guns to another FFL/SOT or to a goverment agency, or 2) destroy them.

kempfera
June 3, 2011, 06:26 PM
It doesn't make sense, if I already own a registered full auto weapon I can purchase a full auto M-16 upper for less than $600.00. But I can't buy that same upper or kit ( less stripped lower) unless I first have or purchase a class III weapon. That's crazy, I think its time to do something and make some changes.

kempfera
June 3, 2011, 06:28 PM
Thanks bubbles

Gord
June 3, 2011, 06:33 PM
But I can't buy that same upper or kit ( less stripped lower) unless I first have or purchase a class III weapon.

Someone will correct me soon if I'm wrong, but AFAIK, yes, you can. The lower (or the autosear, as the case may be) is considered the registered MG, hence why they are so expensive. I don't know if there's such a thing as a full M16 upper commercially available, but plenty of people have M16 bolts in their semi-auto AR-15s.

kempfera
June 3, 2011, 06:50 PM
Gord if you check ie... model1sales.com, you will see that they sell as a kit a fully assembled M-16 upper icnluding all the lower installation parts including but stock "minus stripped lower". All their AR kits will be delivered to your door, but the M-16 kit has to be purchases through III FFL with stamp

Al Thompson
June 3, 2011, 07:37 PM
You are aware that the lower is the firearm right? :) Your M16A1 parts will not properly mount in an AR lower unless you unlawfully modify it.

kempfera
June 4, 2011, 01:06 AM
Thanks for the input Al, and yes I understand that without the appropriate lower the weapon would still be semi-auto. I guess part of my question is, Why are you required to go through a Class III FFL, to purchase one of these M-16/4 kits since a stripped or any other type of lower is not provided? But if I order or purchase the same type of kit labeled or identified as an AR I can have it delivered to my front door without the assistance of a FFL. I also don't understand why if I would purchase individually all the same parts included in one of these M-16/4 kits they too would be delivered to my front door without the need of a FFL.

I appreciate and welcome everyones input and opinions, I'm just trying to understand and make sense of some to of some of these contradictory laws we currently have in place.

PLRinmypocket
June 4, 2011, 01:21 AM
There is another option.

fill out a form 1 to manufacture a machinegun, and send in your $200

when you are denied (and you will be) find a lawyer and sue, based on the 2nd ammendment of the constitution.

Of course this will likelly also cost $K$K$K .... but you might be able to find some people to donate to the cause.

GoingQuiet
June 4, 2011, 01:35 AM
No.

Not unless you are a licensed Class 3 manufacture making a salesman sample gun.

In simplest terms:
No new full-auto weapons can be made, converted, or registered since the passage of the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act.

If it was a registered machinegun on May 19, 1986, it is still legal.
If it wasn't, it isn't, and can't be.

rc
Class 3 is a tax bracket for a dealer, not a manufacturer.

Dealers cannot make guns.

It doesn't make sense, if I already own a registered full auto weapon I can purchase a full auto M-16 upper for less than $600.00. But I can't buy that same upper or kit ( less stripped lower) unless I first have or purchase a class III weapon. That's crazy, I think its time to do something and make some changes.

Class 3 is a TAX BRACKET - not an item. Just like assault is a behavior, not a device.

forindooruseonly
June 4, 2011, 07:26 AM
It is a "title II" firearm, not a class III. Nothing to get bent out of shape over.

[QUOTEGord if you check ie... model1sales.com, you will see that they sell as a kit a fully assembled M-16 upper icnluding all the lower installation parts including but stock "minus stripped lower". All their AR kits will be delivered to your door, but the M-16 kit has to be purchases through III FFL with stamp [/QUOTE]

You can buy uppers all day long without an FFL, and it says so in model1's catalog on page 15. However, check what you are looking at in barrel length. If its less than 16", then it when assembled it is considered a Short Barreled Rifle, thus only legal to use on a registered receiver.

Of course, if you buy one of these and already own an AR that isn't registered, then you might fall into the "constructive intent" trap. Basically, don't buy the shorty AR uppers unless you have registered a receiver.

It does NOT have to be a fully automatic lower to buy a shorty upper. You can just register any AR and buy the appropriate short upper for it. Sure, it won't have the happy switch, but it will be short and save you $k$k$k$k.

Bottom line, that "lower reciever" is what makes the gun. As mention several times above, it is what is registered, and depending on what it is, determines whether its full auto or not. The complete kits are "complete" only so far as to offer an interchangeable upper to your receiver. Essentially, a different barrel setup. You can buy one, but it is in no shape even close to a complete rifle.

MasterSergeantA
June 16, 2011, 04:19 PM
Several of the vendors that sell AR parts will only sell M-16 (full auto) parts to a dealer or an individual if the individual provides a copy of a Form 1 or Form 4. This is done to prevent getting dragged into a court battle when someone illegally builds a 'new' automatic weapon. Rock River Arms marks their pistol lowers so there is no reason to wonder if anyone ever had it built as a rifle before. It is all about the litigation.

You can buy a stripped receiver and put it away for a rainy day. If the FOPA ban ever goes away, you can get a Form 1 approved, drill a hole, add a sear and away you go. Until then, you can't.

I will agree that it sucks (to use your words). But it is also unfortunate that there are other laws that I may not like but with which I must comply.

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