[alan]

Write Social Security Number on your check or money order, commanded the envelope furnished by U.S. Treasury Dept., for mailing our quarterly estimated tax payment.

Seemingly a harmless request, until one considers the possibility of, and the problems resulting from IDENTITY THEFT, which the indiscriminate display of ones Social Security Number could certainly facilitate or aid. For instance, how many hands do these checks go through, before they are returned, if they are still returned to the writer, and before whose eyes do they pass?

I do not infer that any government agency intentionally creates a situation such as might facilitate IDENTITY THEFT, however the fact remains that through simple lack of thought, that is exactly what they might, in the end, have accomplished.

Having gotten this far, are you still with me, consider the following. Our taxpaying citizen, having complied with the original request, ends up with their identity having been stolen, said situation causing one hellish amount of travail. Now tell me please, exactly when The Cavalry might be expected to appear, The Cavalry obviously being "the government", to help clear up the mess that their routines might have played a significant part in the creation of?

Readers might consider sharing the foregoing with their congress/senate critters, along with their suggestions/demands for the obviously needed corrective action.

[Carlos]

Alan, this is nothing new.

There is other information on your check that can be used to steal your identity. Businesses routinely ask for your account number. The government is asking for your "account" number; SSN. There's much more information that can be used to steal your identity besides a SSN.

Of course, we know the Gov won't do #*#( to help out in case they screw things up.

[Unisaw]

Alan,

Putting your social security number on your check helps insure that your payment is credited to your tax account rather than someone else's. Nothing in life is free of risk.

[dischord]

You send the check in the same envelope with a 1040-ES that bears your SSN, so you woudn't be protecting yourself by keepng it off the check.

Of course, you could pay electronically and avoid the risk altogether (though, I suppose, that opens another risk).

In any event, I'd be more worried about all those credit card and loan applications that show up in your mailbox with your vitals on them. Buy a shredder at office depot. Identity theft by sorting through people's trash is more common than identity from stealing their mail, though both occur.

[alan]

dischord:

Re your observation that "You send the check in the same envelope with a 1040-ES that bears your SSN, so you woudn't be protecting yourself by keepng it off the check.", true enough.

One supposes that since the 1040-ES goes to and stays with?? the Treasury/IRS, that it's safe there??, however how many hands does that check go through?

Unisaw wrote, "Putting your social security number on your check helps insure that your payment is credited to your tax account rather than someone else's. Nothing in life is free of risk. Social Security numbering started in 1935 or 36. when did this business of Social Security NUmbvers on checks staart, much later than that, so hjow did they manage to credit checks to the right account then?? They did you know.

Carlos offered, "There is other information on your check that can be used to steal your identity. Businesses routinely ask for your account number. The government is asking for your "account" number; SSN. There's much more information that can be used to steal your identity besides a SSN."

Re the first part of your response, re the "other information" you mentioned, like what? Asa to those "businesses routinely for your account numbver", which might they be. Also, nobody is compelled to do business with them I hadn't noticefd an alternative to either the IRS or the U.S. Treasury. Am I missing something.

While I do not subscribe to "black helicopters", and I also do not infer that any government agency would knowingly and deliberately aid and abet identity theft, still I believe that worse than the above mentioned possibility, is the following. That government agencies might cause harm to people as the simple result of a lack of thought, if you will, plain old fashioned stupidity on their part. Otherwise, thanks for your responses. I still think the matter worth raising with our congress critters. That of course, is a matter of personal choice.

[JohnBT]

I have chosen not to worry about it.

"Am I missing something."

Only a question mark, but I wouldn't worry about it. :)

John...What? Me worry?

[Delmar]

If you joined the military after say the middle 1960's, your SSN was your service number. The state of Oklahoma uses your SSN for your drivers license number and may not be the only one who does. Funny how a government account number is taken for an ID number.

[dischord]

One supposes that since the 1040-ES goes to and stays with?? the Treasury/IRS, that it's safe there??, however how many hands does that check go through? Bank employees presumably are as honest as IRS employees. (How many hands touch the 1040-ES at the IRS?) I'd say your risk is minimal. You're more at risk from trash raiders, mail thieves and 16-year-old kids who have access to credit card receipts at the local department store.The state of Oklahoma uses your SSN for your drivers license number and may not be the only one who does. Virginia does too, but you can request a different, computer-generated number. The Commonwealth didn't use to offer this option, but added it due to identity theft concerns.

[seeker_two]

That government agencies might cause harm to people as the simple result of a lack of thought, if you will, plain old fashioned stupidity on their part.

Truer words never spoken...:banghead:

[alan]

Looking at my original post, and comments, as well as some of the responses, I've come to realize that with respect to my assumption that "a government agency would not knowingly cause harm to a citizen", is way off base. If it appears that my historical memory is overly short, it really isn't, though now and then I get forgetful.

Dischord quoting me, observed quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One supposes that since the 1040-ES goes to and stays with?? the Treasury/IRS, that it's safe there??, however how many hands does that check go through?
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Bank employees presumably are as honest as IRS employees. (How many hands touch the 1040-ES at the IRS?) I'd say your risk is minimal. You're more at risk from trash raiders, mail thieves and 16-year-old kids who have access to credit card receipts at the local department store.

Seems to me, if memory serves, that more than once or twice, IRS employees and management level types have been "caught out" misusing their authority, as well as the information they had access to, information that was supposedly CONFIDENTIAL. Of course, Re IRS misbehavoir, let's not forget Kenyon Ballew. Anyone know what eventually became of him, and his family, as a result of him having been shot up by IRS agents.

[zpo]

When I renewed my license in September, I was told Oklahoma no longer puts SSN on drivers license. I had already had it changed to something else, so I don't know for sure this is true.

[alan]

ZPO:

I've never had any experience with OK, and whichever way is is that they do things there, however the following might be instructive/interesting.

Some years back, Pennsylvania was putting Social Security Numbers, or had announced plans to so do, on the drivers licenses it issues. There was literally hell to pay over this, and the idea was, scotched, though one was eventually required to provide their SS#. Claim was that this would be an aid in catching those "deadbeat dads" and others who improperly held multiple drivers licenses, or licenses in more than one state, or so it was claimed. If you believe this, I have some bridges that are for sale, CHEAP. In any event, the number on ones drivers license came to be a "random number", not related, it was claimed, to the SS#.

Personally, I have, for a great many years been curious as to the following. My SS card, circa 1948, yes I know I'm old, you needn't rub it in, contains the following admonition on the face of the card. FOR SOCIAL SECURITY PURPOSES NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION, what does yours say? Now then, re this, I've always found the following question of interest, and no congress critter, whatever their religion, race, size, shape, color, sex or party affilitation has ever deigned to answer it. Given that there is absolutely no apparent LEGITIMATE relationship, the operational word is the adjective LEGITIMATE, between a one's drivers license and ones Social Security Number, what is the exact nature of such relationship that might exist between them? Think about that for yourself.

By the way, if you recently had the occassion to purchase a firearm, particularly a handgun, and go through the infamous NICS background check, your drivers license has become the Identification Document DeJour, when the dealer "runs" your license, guess what comes up on his screen, at least in PA? You guessed right, your "sosch", as they have come to be known. Having guessed right, you therefore win that wonderous, all expense paid weekend trip to East McKeesport. In case you are wondering as to the reference to East McKeesport, it's sort of a local "in" joke, around here.

Enough of this, end of rant. If you have gotten this far, thanks for your time and attention.

[Delmar]

ZPO-when I lived on Ok, it wasn't that they were putting your SSN on your license, your drivers license number WAS your social security number. Didn't really bother me one way or another, and I guess an advantage was one less string of numbers to remember.

Interesting that they would do away with it, but with this ID theft thing going, it makes sense.

'Course, here in Texas, we have the infamous thumb print when you get or renew your license.

[zpo]

alan-
I was born in '79, I don't have that phrase on my SS card. In OK the NICS check is done over the phone, and the SS# is optional (I've purchased with and without just to see) and there is no difference in wait or approval. If you read the back of the 4473, a state that has as strict or more strict guidelines for purchasing firearms can have a state agency handle the NICS call. They can require more info than federal, and in some states actually register the gun with the name at that time. I really don't think the change from SS# to another number makes a difference for people who have access to those records, legally or not. Its just another number directly linked to Zachary P. Overton. If they have one #, and database access, then it links to me, and the other #, so "they" have them both.

Delmar-
When I got my permit, it was required to have my social on it. When I got my license, I had a choice to leave it on, or change it.(it cost 19 dollars to change the #, and 1 dollar for the long distance call) And then when I renewed it, (the independent Tag Agency that renewed my license) told me SS#'s were no longer allowed to be put on the license, but I haven't checked to see that it is true.