pistol caliber vs. 223/556 in a 7" barrel


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Zanad
June 4, 2011, 04:45 PM
If you found yourself in a need/want for an AR pistol in the 7" barrel variety, what caliber would you get?

at a 7" barrel, is a 223 not as useful as say a 9mm or .45?


does the .223/556 loose enough benefits so that its on par with a pistol caliber with a huge increase in noise?

what about reliability?

thanks....

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Z-Michigan
June 4, 2011, 04:49 PM
In a 7" barrel the best performers will probably be cartridges like 7.62x39mm, 300 AAC Blackout, and 6.8 SPC, followed fairly close by stout pistol cartridges like .357 Magnum and 10mm auto.

A .223 will lose a lot of its velocity - you can google for a chart, but I believe you'd be looking at perhaps 2000-2200fps muzzle velocity in a 7" barrel, maybe even less. That's still quite fast, but the blast will be incredible and the total energy won't be very high. In contrast the 9mm, 40 or 45 would gain somewhat over its standard velocity, but will still be definitely in the pistol power class.

Do you have any specific use in mind?

Zanad
June 4, 2011, 04:54 PM
no specific use in mind but it might be employed as a plinking tool and working overtime as a home defense weapon.

Sam Cade
June 4, 2011, 05:03 PM
A .223 will lose a lot of its velocity - you can google for a chart, but I believe you'd be looking at perhaps 2000-2200fps muzzle velocity in a 7" barrel, maybe even less. That's still quite fast, but the blast will be incredible and the total energy won't be very high.

Still looking at over 600 ft/lbs there.


You would have to get into serious loads for the .357 magnum before you start matching that number.

hardluk1
June 4, 2011, 07:43 PM
I have hunted with 357 mag loads for 20 years that could meet or top 600ft lbs energy. It's not a big deal with 180gr bullets. I would also beet more accurately to. Just not as fast.

For the price of a limited use ar pistol maybe one of over priced fn 5.7x28mm pistols, armor pierseing, tends to upset in tissue with limited chance of pass thru and more concealable. I don't real get ether one, just a idea

Z-Michigan
June 4, 2011, 08:25 PM
of over priced HK 5.7x28mm pistols, armor pierseing, tends to upset in tissue

Those are FN Herstal, not HK, and civilians can't get armor piercing ammo. The ammo sold to civilians won't go through soft body armor. They are also very iffy on terminal ballistics, like most small/light/fast cartridges - sometimes they are devastating, sometimes they don't do much of anything. Mostly good for recoil sensitive shooters who need something better than a .22 rimfire.

Sam Cade
June 4, 2011, 08:52 PM
I have hunted with 357 mag loads for 20 years that could meet or top 600ft lbs energy. It's not a big deal with 180gr
bullets.


Sure...180gr north of 1200 FPS will make over 600 ft/lbs, and its a pretty serious load.




I would also bet more accurately to.


Why would you think that?

wraith56
June 4, 2011, 09:22 PM
I don't think there would be a DETECTABLE accuracy difference shooting an AR pistol,

But hypothetically, in a 7" inch barrel I would figure that the powder in a 357 or 45 will have burned completely before the bullet reaches the muzzle. a 223 loaded with a slower powder might be burning as the bullet leaves, or at least have more deviation in pressue and velocity at the 7" mark.

No relevant practical experience, I am just thinking what known physics might explain a difference if one was detected, assuming it wasn't psychology.

Sam Cade
June 4, 2011, 10:10 PM
I am just thinking what known physics might explain a difference if one was detected,

A short barreled AR or AR pistol is as mechanically accurate as any other AR.





Diplomats are reportedly sub-MOA.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1432

I bet that is one STIFF barrel.

tactikel
June 4, 2011, 11:00 PM
powder=energy , properly loaded the .223 has more tactical uses then any pistol round.http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/plr-16/

Cryogaijin
June 5, 2011, 06:28 AM
And if you handload you can load for that 7" barrel and not worry about excess flash or powder burn.

hardluk1
June 5, 2011, 08:46 AM
Z I know the it was fn , just couldn't get my fingers to type right. The hk is a what 4.6 something.

Sam It really ain't that serious a load. I have shot about 5 thousand of the 180gr rounds and a some 200gr. They were not accurate enough. The recoil is abit sharper than some of the low vel factory fodder but still there are factory loads that surpass that with better bullet choices today.

Wraith56 With a 8" barrel you do still have a bit of unburned powder still. Could pick another 400+ feet per second with a 18" barrel. Fired a few rounds in a indoor range and it can get a nice fire ball still. I know it ain't great but with a red dot i can shoot 3" 100 yard groups with my eyes. I am sure that a skilled AR pistol shooter with a dot scope and strap or rest and scope can do that and maybe shot groups half that size. But most buy them for no pratical reason but so do most heavy revolvers shooters I guess.

Sam thats just not a bad load to shoot. I don't try to use a 180gr in a short barrel for sure , it is a hunting load. But it is not some monster load and not bad to shot. My 38sp jframe with my carry ammo is waaay harder to enjoy.

My point is If you just gota gota own a AR based 223 pistol , buy one . But it ain't the cats butt at anything. Heavy for a hand gun. Not really short or easy to hide or carry in practical terms. Also not easy to shoot well by all but the most dedicated. And one handed?? That is what a handgun is about. Would it not be better to do the paper work and get a short barreled folding stock rifle or just a legal for all 16" barreled car?? Even a 11 to 14" barreled short folder could atleast be pressed in to practical use at 200 yards and still shoot around when the stock is folded. Or a AK74 folder. But heck for just a fun gun for the range !! What do I know. Guess I tend to be too practical at times.

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