Problems at the range today: Ruger LCP and Beretta Px4 Storm


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archigos
June 4, 2011, 05:01 PM
I've never had issues with either of these guns before.

My LCP today was failing to load about half of the rounds (Winchester FMJ). They'd align on the feed ramp correctly but would require me manually pushing the slide closed.

My Beretta Px4 Storm today failed to load several rounds (PMC Bronze FMJ). They would not align correctly and would need to be ejected and reloaded to chamber. I also had one FTE.

Thoughts? I'm thinking about perhaps buying a higher load-rating spring from Wolff for the LCP, but I'm not sure about the Px4. Perhaps I need to just try different ammo in the Px4, as I don't believe I've used the PMC ammo in that before.

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WardenWolf
June 4, 2011, 05:15 PM
There's a recent thread HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=588520&highlight=winchester+ammo) regarding defective Winchester 9mm ammo. It's entirely possible you got a bad batch. It sounds to me like the bullets weren't seated properly. If I were to guess, I'd say the bullets weren't seated deep enough resulting in feeding issues, likely due to it impacting the rifling prematurely.

As for the Beretta, I honestly can't tell you. PMC is high-quality ammo from South Korea, and South Korean equipment is top-notch.

Blue68f100
June 4, 2011, 05:23 PM
Were you using the slingshot method or slide lock/release lever?

How many rounds do you have on the recoil springs? Most have a maintenance schedule for replacing from any where between 1500-5000.

When was the last time you cleaned the mags?

joelh
June 4, 2011, 05:39 PM
I am wondering about bad ammo on the LCP. It may be a lot of things, but unreliable is not one of them

archigos
June 5, 2011, 01:07 PM
There's a recent thread HERE regarding defective Winchester 9mm ammo. It's entirely possible you got a bad batch. It sounds to me like the bullets weren't seated properly. If I were to guess, I'd say the bullets weren't seated deep enough resulting in feeding issues, likely due to it impacting the rifling prematurely.

As for the Beretta, I honestly can't tell you. PMC is high-quality ammo from South Korea, and South Korean equipment is top-notch.

The Winchester ammo was the 380 and the PMC was the 9mm, though I guess its possible the same problem exists in their 380 ammo? The Winchester stuff I have is a few years old. Interestingly enough, I actually visually spotted a single round among the PMC ammo that either had the bullet seated noticeably deeper or the bullet was noticeably smaller. (I didn't have a problem with shooting this one.)

Were you using the slingshot method or slide lock/release lever?

How many rounds do you have on the recoil springs? Most have a maintenance schedule for replacing from any where between 1500-5000.

When was the last time you cleaned the mags?

Both slingshot method and slide release. Also, both problems occurred when the slide cycled while firing, not just releasing the slide manually.
I'm probably around 1000 rounds on the Px4 and in the 200-300 range on the LCP.
I have not actually taken apart the mags.

I am wondering about bad ammo on the LCP. It may be a lot of things, but unreliable is not one of them
I know! This is especially unfortunate because my LCP was my primary carry gun and I don't feel that I can carry it again until I get this issues ironed out. I've never experienced this when chambering my HP ammo, so maybe its just the ammo... then again, I'd like to shoot a couple hundred rounds of my HP ammo through it before trusting it again, but can't really afford to do that...

WardenWolf
June 5, 2011, 03:26 PM
Shoot a single box of Magtech FMJ through it. If there's no problems, it was the ammo. I'll bet you anything it was a Winchester quality control issue. Keep in mind that .380 is technically 9x17mm. It's entirely possible that there's some shared equipment between the 9mm Luger and the .380 ammo.

murf
June 5, 2011, 05:07 PM
maybe they both need a good cleaning. might have too much crud in the firing pin channel, or a crud ring at the front of the chamber. just a guess.

murf

SIGLBER
June 5, 2011, 07:14 PM
As others have said WWB has had some quality issues as of late. I bought several boxes of some of the .45 awhile back and it was loaded so week it was causing the slide to short stroke on my guns. Just to eliminate the possibility it was the gun I shot it out of a 1911, HK USP, and a Glock 30. Jammed all of them. Winchester replaced the lot for me. All the boxes ere from the same run of ammo.
I've actually seen some of the .45 rounds set way to deep in the case. Now it seems to be spreading to the 9mm. Had some gouged cases also. Figure it's just range ammo so I don't get to shaken up aboout it unless it happens allot. As others have said the PMC I've shot has been primo stuff. And the Mag Tech rounds are loaded very hot. Strange having the problem's on both guns the same day with different ammo. But it can happen. I would clean the mags. I do mine regularly. Doesn't sound like eithr gun has enough rounds through them for springs to be a problem. But you never know.
If you go to too heavy of a recoil spring it can cause problems also. Witness the mess wth the Glock Gen 4 9mm's and the too heavy springs. But it wouldn't hurt to order some extra power mag springs and maybe a slightly heavier recoil spring from Wolff. I usually put the +10 springs in most of my mags. The springs are cheap anyways. If you eliminate ammo problems and springs their aren't many things left. I hate when people tell me this but the polymer guns especially the small ones need a very strong grip. Please don't be offended. I think limp writing is an over used excuse. But it can happen.
On the PX4's the rotating barrels can sometimes be prone to excessive build up of gunk on the camming system. If you are using grease on the camming system it can cause the gun to get gunked up faster. Just to play it safe let a couple of other shooters try the gun. That pretty much should eliminate most possible problems. If not they need to go back to their makers. Good luck and I know it's very frustrating. Once yu get it sorted out I'd need allot of rounds through both of them before i felt o.k. to carry them also. Hope it get's worked out because they are both fine weapons.

rocinante
June 5, 2011, 08:14 PM
No offense but is it possible you might not have been holding the guns tight enough with your wrist locked?

WardenWolf
June 5, 2011, 10:59 PM
No offense but is it possible you might not have been holding the guns tight enough with your wrist locked?
You'd have to be pretty anemic to limp-wrist a .380. You'd have to practically TRY to, and even then you probably wouldn't succeed.

archigos
June 6, 2011, 12:20 AM
I can confidently say I'm not limp wristing. I did clean the magazines today and found that the spring in one of the two LCP mags was pretty bent - it looks like that magazine has a slightly different design from that of the other one... the spring isn't actually attached to the plate.
I still have no idea about the other magazine or the Px4. I guess I'll try getting some Magtech ammo for both and see what happens at some point this week.

archigos
June 15, 2011, 05:00 PM
I suspect I've found the problem with the LCP. Apparently the recoil spring has a directionality of which I was not previously aware. After switching it, rounds will load properly from the magazine when the slide is racked manually - hopefully I can test at the range tomorrow.
The scary thing is how long its been like that. I'd been carrying it like that for months!

Smaug
June 15, 2011, 05:38 PM
Although it was user error for the LCP, this is another example of how the simple DA revolver can be a better weapon than an auto pistol. Fewer things to screw up.

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