Bad safety on Rem 700?


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Beak50
June 4, 2011, 07:01 PM
I just watched a show on cnbc about Remington knowingly mass produceing the Model 700 for 40+ yrs,and they knew the saftey's were bad.The guy who designed it even told the Co.and for an additional.05 cents a gun could have solved the problem.My father in-law has a few 700's and never had a problem.Have any of you out there have?I looked to see if there were any threads on this subject but come up with a assault weapons ban repor?

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ColtPythonElite
June 4, 2011, 07:07 PM
That is an old story and full of half truths....The Rem triggers that cause problems are ones that are improperly adjusted by someone not knowing what they are doing and/or ones that have not been properly maintained....My dad bought a used Rem 700 that would go off sometimes when you flicked the safety off. A qualified gunsmith corrected the problem. He found the trigger improperly adjusted and gummed up with old oil.

kfgk14
June 4, 2011, 07:42 PM
I'm going to be frank and tell you that CNBC is a load of crap on the subject of guns, and many other things too.
There was all manner of butt-hurt on this subject a while ago at my school, and my fellow students asked me my opinion. They got an earful after the BS they'd tried to sell me about how this is just another example of how gun makers don't care/kill children/club baby seals/whatever other current accusation happens to be floating around.

kis2
June 4, 2011, 07:42 PM
FWIW, I've never had a problem with mine. Here are the threads you were looking for.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=550774

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=552073

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=557059

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=548107

red rick
June 4, 2011, 08:10 PM
I don't believe everything that is reported, but I can't dispute what Mr. Walker says about his design. If mine had a Walker trigger it would get replaced as he wanted to do.

USSR
June 4, 2011, 11:05 PM
The Rem triggers that cause problems are ones that are improperly adjusted by someone not knowing what they are doing and/or ones that have not been properly maintained

Not so! Read some of the posts in the threads about this. Several people had this problem with brand new, unmolested Model 700's. It's a design problem.

Don

wow6599
June 4, 2011, 11:07 PM
Yes, but it wouldn't bother me too much - the real safety is between your ears.

red rick
June 5, 2011, 12:30 AM
So you don't have a problem with a gun firing without you pulling the trigger as long as its pointed in a safe direction.

Robert
June 5, 2011, 12:54 AM
Was hunting last Nov with a friend and his bone stock 700. I know for a fact he has never adjusted the trigger. Elk steps into the clearing 75 yards to our front, he comes up to the shoulder finger indexed clearly on the stock, flicks the safety off and BOOM. He never went near the trigger with is finger or anything else. I was there, I watched it happen.

Skyshot
June 5, 2011, 08:57 AM
Who will bet thier life on a trigger of any manufaturer,I certainly won't. The Rem. 700 trigger is just that, a trigger. In 40 years of shooting I think I have seen almost all gun makes have trigger failures. For those who claim it went boom when the saftey was pushed off, I can only say you don't maintane your equipment or you didn't put enough range time in on that unit. Lack of maintenance and lack of familiarity will get you or someone else killed. There just happens to be more Remmy 700's out there than any other hunting bolt guns any unfortunatly they get in the hands of nimrods. Adequate range time would show any malfunctioning system. All you bellyachers need to take a hunter saftey course. Study the ten commandments of firearms safety. Or take up golf.

natman
June 5, 2011, 09:02 AM
Letís take a look at some of the objections you're likely to hear about this issue:

"Itís an anti-gun conspiracy / CNBC is biased."

Yes, CNBC is biased, and their story contains slanted perspectives and misleading information. What did you expect? However, just because the presentation is biased doesnít necessarily mean that the core issue isnít true.

"It must be caused by people fiddling with their trigger adjustments."

No doubt some of the problems are indeed due to improper adjustments. However there are lots of rifles that have adjustable triggers that donít have anywhere near as many complaints. Something else is going on.

So let's take a look at what it is:

Here's the Remington 700 "Walker" trigger cocked:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/nat_mann/REMINGTONtriggernamed1.jpg

The Remington 700 trigger is a bit unusual in that it uses an extra piece, the trigger connector, to refine the trigger pull. The tiny red area is the engagement between the connector and the sear.

When the trigger is pulled, the connector goes forward and returns to this position:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/nat_mann/REMINGTONtriggernamed2.jpg
For this trigger to operate safely it is essential that when the rifle is cocked the trigger connector return 100% to the proper position, pushed there by only the light weight trigger spring.

See the red area between the trigger shoe and the trigger connector when the rifle is uncocked? That's the problem area. Any tiny speck of dirt, rust, ice or other material that gets in there will prevent the connector from engaging the sear properly. This can result in the safety keeping the sear from falling instead of the trigger connector. When the safety is released, the gun fires.

With all this in mind, let's take a look at a couple more objections:

ďIíve owned a Remington 700 for forty years and fired thousands of rounds and never had a problem.Ē

Good for you. This problem doesn't happen often, simply because itís fairly difficult for stuff to work its way into the proper area of the trigger. But this is not a question of a few defective guns; itís a design weakness that could affect any of the millions of guns with this trigger. If you havenít had a problem, itís because nothing has worked its way into your trigger.

Yet.

"This only happens on dirty or neglected guns."

This is more likely to happen on a dirty or neglected gun. However, a grass seed or a bit of pine needle could make this happen on an otherwise pristine gun.

"There wouldn't be any problem if they followed The Rules of Gun Safety."

True enough. You should always treat your gun as though it could go off at any moment. That doesn't excuse making a rifle that actually does it.

helotaxi
June 5, 2011, 09:04 AM
My firearms safety instructor (NRA instructor and the rangemaster at the local range) had a Rem 700 that was brand new go off when he switched the safety off. I'm sure he's a nimrod, too...

The CNBC story was a bunch of sensationalism; however it is based on a grain of truth. There WAS A DESIGN FLAW WITH THE TRIGGER/SAFETY that made the Rem 700 more prone to failure than what would be considered "normal".

Skyshot
June 5, 2011, 09:12 AM
If he had that rifle pointed somewhere unsafe, yes he is a nimrod. That's what I said about rangetime and being familiar with the rifle.

Skyshot
June 5, 2011, 09:22 AM
This comparison is like saying a motorcycle is dangerous. Yes, it sure is and there are different makes that have different features. You'd better understand what you're doing before flying down the highway on one. But there are those who don't and when they get killed or go down it become's a reality.

Tirod
June 5, 2011, 10:02 AM
The contention that Remington deliberately made a defective trigger because they were too cheap to spend an extra nickle on it - and did so for 40 years - is the real issue.

Has there been negligent discharges with them - yes. Were some discharges due to the trigger assembly allowing the gun to discharge when the safety is clicked off, yes. Were those triggers adjusted correctly, absolutely clean, and in perfect working order in each and every circumstance?

No possible way to tell, just a ticked off owner who suddenly realized they could no longer casually load and handle the firearm in what they thought was a safe manner.

Great news fodder but a very difficult case to make.

rbernie
June 5, 2011, 10:46 AM
Asked and answered.

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