Pistol or SBR


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longshot7.62x51
June 4, 2011, 06:19 PM
would adding a grip in front of the magizne make this an SBR or would it remain a pistol

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Sam Cade
June 4, 2011, 06:22 PM
It would make it an SBR.

longshot7.62x51
June 4, 2011, 06:28 PM
Thank you

wally
June 4, 2011, 06:33 PM
Perhaps some clarification is in order.

I always thought that adding a forward vertical grip to a pistol with no provision for a shoulder stock made it an AOW "Any Other Weapon"

Although registering it as an SBR would give you the most versatility.

longshot7.62x51
June 4, 2011, 06:44 PM
well as soon as i have to reg it there is no reason to not do it as a sbr. would make the thing easyer to shoot by a long hot too

Sam Cade
June 4, 2011, 06:51 PM
no reason to not do it as a sbr

If you are located in HI, SBRs are forbidden by state law.

http://www.honolulupd.org/info/gun134-8.htm

Sorry. :-(

onfloat
June 4, 2011, 07:01 PM
And anything with a barrel under 16" is considered a pistol. Assault pistols are also illegal in Hawaii.

http://www.honolulupd.org/info/gun_assault_pistols.htm

Sam Cade
June 4, 2011, 07:20 PM
I always thought that adding a forward vertical grip to a pistol with no provision for a shoulder stock made it an AOW "Any Other Weapon"

Although registering it as an SBR would give you the most versatility.

You are correct, but its $200 either way, so the only reason to go AOW would be a quirk of state law.

Sam Cade
June 4, 2011, 07:25 PM
Assault pistols are also illegal in Hawaii.


Looks like the PTR hits 6 of the 6 to be an "assault pistol" if the forearm counts as a "shroud".

Its almost enough to make me want one.

onfloat
June 4, 2011, 07:55 PM
Looks like the PTR hits 6 of the 6 to be an "assault pistol" if the forearm counts as a "shroud".

Its almost enough to make me want one.

LOL.

longshot7.62x51
June 4, 2011, 10:58 PM
Im only stuck here in this nightmare for another year then im off to a better state like TX or CO

Ron James
June 4, 2011, 11:13 PM
I've had many friends that were stationed in Schofield Barracks, they sure didn't call it a nightmare. In fact they always did everything in their power to get back to Hawaii.

longshot7.62x51
June 4, 2011, 11:30 PM
I am just not well suited for this state. its too wet and islandy and the whole registering all your guns thing (Not cool Bra)

onfloat
June 5, 2011, 12:48 AM
Yep, I'm trying to figure out how to get back to the mainland myself. 6 years has been long enough!

Quiet
June 5, 2011, 09:32 PM
Perhaps some clarification is in order.

I always thought that adding a forward vertical grip to a pistol with no provision for a shoulder stock made it an AOW "Any Other Weapon"

Although registering it as an SBR would give you the most versatility.

You are correct.
Adding a vertical forward grip to a handgun would make it an AOW, not a SBR.

In order to be a SBR, you would need to add a shoulder stock to it.

InkEd
June 6, 2011, 09:43 AM
C'mon guys!

You mean you don't LOVE registering ALL your guns (neutered) guns and asking directions to get somewhere that has nine vowels and two apostrophes in the name?

What next? Are you going to pretend that SPAM isnt delicious and worth serving with every meal?

Sam1911
June 6, 2011, 10:24 AM
Yes, Quiet got this answer correct. A Title I pistol -- as the above image appears to be -- has to be registered as an AOW for you to install a forward vertical grip.

...EXCEPT...

You could register it as an SBR, though, and for the same money, and then install a vertical fore grip and/or a full butt-stock if you wanted one. The SBR registration makes by far the most sense. You don't have to install a buttstock, but you can if you want. And anything registered as a kind of rifle can have any vertical grip you want installed.

boricua9mm
June 6, 2011, 11:52 AM
You could register it as an SBR, though, and for the same money, and then install a vertical fore grip and/or a full butt-stock if you wanted one. The SBR registration makes by far the most sense. You don't have to install a buttstock, but you can if you want. And anything registered as a kind of rifle can have any vertical grip you want installed.


I might be mistaken, but I thought the Tax Stamp for an AOW was only $5, not $200. I agreee though, a rifle-caliber pistol is of very limited use. Paying the $200 to turn it into an SBR would be the best way to go.

Sam1911
June 6, 2011, 11:56 AM
The tax stamp to MAKE an AOW on a Form 1, which is what you'd be doing here, is still $200, just like for a Form 1 to make an SBR.

The tax stamp for a Form 4 Transfer of one to a new owner is $5, unlike a Form 4 transfer for any other Title II item which is $200.

baylorattorney
June 6, 2011, 12:33 PM
When will we finally be a democracy or free republic and reform these stupid laws that? It is very simple: laws only effect law-abiding citizens. NTM, some (laws) are just plain stupid.

longshot7.62x51
June 6, 2011, 06:44 PM
so the the plan is now to get pistol fill out form 1 for SBR then use colapsing stock from a G3K (once i can get some orders cut to get me the hell out of this state)
Thank you all for the help

Also am i correct in understanding that no matter what i do i can not convert a rifle to automatic/burst for personal use (i know i couldn't transfer it)

Sam1911
June 6, 2011, 06:57 PM
Also am i correct in understanding that no matter what i do i can not convert a rifle to automatic/burst for personal use (i know i couldn't transfer it)


That is correct. Since May of 1986, you cannot add any firearms to the list of civilian-owned machine guns (automatics of all kinds). If you want one of those, you'll have to find one made and registered before that date. (The description you'd be looking for is a "Transferable" MG.)

Once you have, for example, a transferable, registered M-16, you can make all kinds of changes as long as you're still using that registered receiver (or drop-in auto-sear). So you could build a gun that looks and functions just like a brand new M-4, but it would have to be built on a receiver that had been made and registered prior to 1986. (And those are worth something in the $15,000 range at this point.)

longshot7.62x51
June 6, 2011, 07:05 PM
yeah thats about what i expected. then again the only MGs i would want i couldn't afford to feed even if i could afford to buy one (MG3/M240)

thank you all again

MasterSergeantA
June 15, 2011, 04:01 PM
And to further muddy the issue...if you put a railed forend on the pistol, ATF has ruled that you can mount a Magpul Angled Foregrip (AFG) without violating the law. Using that with a single point sling pulled taut against the back of your shoulder actually provides a good bit of stability.

TechPrepper
July 25, 2011, 08:51 AM
It would make it an SBR.
I thought that only adding a stock would make it an SBR. Where do you see a foregrip requiring an special tax stamp?

Quiet
July 25, 2011, 09:29 AM
I thought that only adding a stock would make it an SBR. Where do you see a foregrip requiring an special tax stamp?
You are correct in that adding a shoulder stock to a handgun would make it a SBR.

Adding a vertical forward grip to a handgun makes it an AOW and a tax stamp is required.

Adding a horizontal or angled foregrip to a handgun does not make it a Title 2 firearm and no tax stamp is required.

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