Difference between 2 3/4" and 3" shells


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Mals9
June 4, 2011, 07:35 PM
I have a Mossberg 12 ga that can handle 2 3/4" and 3" shells. I came across a pretty good deal on a NEF Pardner single shot that is set for 3" shells. I was thinking about getting this so my son and wife can shoot trap with me. I would like to only keep on size shell in stock. How much difference in recoil is there between the 2?

Mals

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dfariswheel
June 4, 2011, 07:47 PM
Significant.

The 2 3/4" shells are available in many loads from light recoiling dove and quail, to reduced recoil buckshot, to 2 3/4" Magnum loads.
The 3" shells are all Magnum loads as far as I know, and the heavier load of shot produces much more recoil.
If you load a light gun like a single shot with 3" shells the recoil is going to just pound them brutally.

Of course, most any shotgun that is chambered for 3" shells will also shoot 2 3/4" shells too.
So, all you need to so is buy 2 3/4" shells in lighter loads for the NEF.

Mals9
June 4, 2011, 07:55 PM
I was under the impression that it was not wise to load 2 3/4" into a 3' chamber because of the shoulder being in front of the end of the shell, this would cause a problem with the barrel over time. I am new to this and this is what the shop told me.

Mals

Birdmang
June 4, 2011, 07:57 PM
Not true

Zoogster
June 4, 2011, 08:01 PM
No it won't cause problems, it can slightly reduce accuracy in some guns if it leads to pellet deformation or less stability making the small jump.
The expanding gas also has to fill that larger than bore sized chamber with pressure before channeling the pressure and payload down the barrel, so larger chambers actually make smaller shells slightly weaker by wasting some of the gas pressure in filling that overbore extra space before usefully channeling the pressure down the proper bore size.


The NEF Pardner single shots are much lighter than your mossberg, and 3" shells from such a light single shot is going to have much greater felt recoil than from your mossberg.
Anything fired from the single shot is going to recoil more than fired from your mossberg.

jbkebert
June 4, 2011, 08:03 PM
You can shoot 2 3/4" shells through a 3" chamber to your hearts content. No problems.

Mals9
June 4, 2011, 11:31 PM
Thanks for the reply's.

Mals

mgkdrgn
June 4, 2011, 11:39 PM
I had one of those once (NEF single shot). WO a doubt the hardest kicking shotgun I ever owned ... and that was with 2 3/4" shells.

jojo200517
June 4, 2011, 11:53 PM
Hey Mals9, I think what you were thinking of before is putting 3 inch shells in a gun designed for 2 3/4 inch only. Now that way is a big no no.

However 3 and even 3 1/2 inch chambered guns can shoot 2 3/4 inch shells safely. There may however be a small loss of "performance" as others have stated.

You might want to find some shells that are 1 oz or even 7/8 oz loads for the wife to shoot out of the single shot. The lighter the loads will have less recoil. You might even enjoy them yourself.

orphanedcowboy
June 5, 2011, 05:35 AM
I handload 2 3/4" steel loads and shoot them in 3" and 3 1/2" clambered guns and pattern test them over a chronograph and there is no degradation in velocity or pattern density doing so.

I am amazed at the amount of false and unsubstantiated information out there when it comes to patterns, velocity, chamber size, pellet size and bore diameter in relation to shotguns.

I will agree on one thing, a single shot H&R/NEF shotgun isn't something I would give someone I love especially in 12ga, they do punish you in factory form. I have a buddy who had a 20ga stock cut up for his son to duck hunt with, I watched that poor kid flinch and turn his head everytime he shot it. I took it and had a stock made for it and him, installed a limbsaver, a recoil reduce and now he loves to shoot it, but he's out growing it fast.

Onmilo
June 5, 2011, 05:50 AM
I have an H&R Topper 12 guage I use as a barn gun.
Nobody in their right mind is going to shoot 3" Magnum steel shot field loads for trap shooting unless they are afflicted with a very twisted form of masochism.
2 3/4" shells will work just fine in the H&R and specifically, 1 ounce or 1 1/8 ounce trap loads are not going to be punishing to shoot, even in the lightweight single shot, even when shot in strings of 100 and a padded trap shooting vest will go a long way to ensuring no bruises.

rcmodel
June 5, 2011, 01:08 PM
NEF Pardner single shot that is set for 3" shells. I was thinking about getting this so my son and wife can shoot trap with me. That is close to the worst possible choice you could make for a beginner to learn trap shooting with.

As several have mentioned, it is a light weight, evil recoiling shotgun, even with light loads.

3" Mags would make it brutal, with a resulting flinching habit that will be very difficult for a new shooter to ever get over!

I'd really suggest you forget the price savings on the NEF Pardner, and start your wife and son out with a good pump or semi-auto that will kick far less.
And won't make them hate shooting from now on!

rc

hogcowboy
June 5, 2011, 02:22 PM
Or let them shoot the Mossberg and you shoot the NEF if you must have it.

threefeathers
June 5, 2011, 02:52 PM
For me the difference was a torn retina, think twice about shooting a lot of 3 inch slugs.

Zoogster
June 5, 2011, 03:00 PM
orphanedcowboy said: I handload 2 3/4" steel loads and shoot them in 3" and 3 1/2" clambered guns and pattern test them over a chronograph and there is no degradation in velocity or pattern density doing so.

There is a slight loss in velocity for a given choke, and barrel length, based on the chamber size. Subtle but there. Certain powders and longer barrel length make it less perceptible.
It is certainly not significant, but he asked what it does.
It is simple math, the chamber is wider than the bore, it is typically slightly over .8 inches, while the barrel is .729 (plus or minus based on choke and possible backboring), and the gas has to fill the larger space of the chamber before it builds to the same pressure and starts imparting velocity to the payload at a faster pace in the barrel. The larger the chamber space the more gas it takes to reach the intended pressure.
It takes more gas to reach the same pressure the wider the tube, and the projectile is not as wide as that chamber so it does not have the added rear surface area for the pressure to act upon.
So in a 3 1/2 chamber firing a 2 3/4 load it is going to take a little longer to get up to the same pressure because the gas has to fill more unnecessary space. It is like starting with 3/4 of an inch of 9 gauge barrel, then choking it down to 12 gauge.


The shot also has to jump that gap, and while that does not effect the shot itself in most modern loads starting within a shot cup unless it doesn't stay centered, it certainly can effect shot that is not in a shot cup because it is an abrupt transition in bore diameter after the shot from a 2 3/4 shell has already been traveling for about .75-1 inches in a 3 1/2 chamber. It does not enter the forcing cone until shot not within a shotcup has been allowed to open slightly. This is especially true in many short abrupt factory forcing cones.
That can increase how much the shot deforms, which would impact the performance.

gofastman
June 5, 2011, 03:13 PM
That is close to the worst possible choice you could make for a beginner to learn trap shooting with.

As several have mentioned, it is a light weight, evil recoiling shotgun, even with light loads.

3" Mags would make it brutal, with a resulting flinching habit that will be very difficult for a new shooter to ever get over!

I'd really suggest you forget the price savings on the NEF Pardner, and start your wife and son out with a good pump or semi-auto that will kick far less.
And won't make them hate shooting from now on!

rc
The Pardner is a crappy gun, that said, its far from "evil recoiling"
get a decent slip on butt pad and some Winchester WinLite loads, it will work out just fine for a new shooter.

rcmodel
June 5, 2011, 03:36 PM
Unless the slip-on pad makes the stock too long for either his son, or his wife.

A gun that doesn't fit is right up there with a gun that kicks too much when trying to learn to shoot trap.

rc

Onmilo
June 5, 2011, 04:01 PM
If the shooter is that recoil sensative, the stock can be cut down 3/4" and a Limbsaver grind to fit recoil pad can be added.
H&R produces a dedicated Trap Gun and people really do shoot them at the Trap Ranges & they come standard with 3" chambers.
http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/toppertrap.asp
Honestly, Trap shooters can be as snobbish and baby like as the combat and Cowboy match shooters.
If you aren't shooting a $5000 Perazzi with all the recoil reducing toys installed so the gun kicks like a .22 then you aren't really interested in the game,,,:(

Bernie Lomax
June 5, 2011, 04:24 PM
Significant.

What he said. I have a Mossy 590A1. Shooting 2 3/4" high brass shells is almost pleasant with the heavy barrel and good Hogue recoil pad I have on there. However, shooting 3" magnums is like getting punched in both the shoulder and face at the same time.

orphanedcowboy
June 5, 2011, 04:25 PM
Zoogster, in theory your premise sounds good, but how would you explain that a Mossberg 935 with a .775" barrel, no forcing cone will shoot the same handloads roughly 50-75fps faster than any of my Benelli, Browning, or any other standard bore gun.

Again, the chronograph doesn't lie.

WaltonS
June 5, 2011, 04:45 PM
To be completely frank, most 2 3/4 loads are very controllable by a 150lb adult male (me) whereas the 3" hurt like a mother...

Jim Watson
June 5, 2011, 05:28 PM
I came across a pretty good deal on a NEF Pardner single shot that is set for 3" shells. I was thinking about getting this so my son and wife can shoot trap with me.

I think if you take your wife and son to the trap range with a six pound single shot, you won't have to worry about them asking to go again. Those little suckers kick, and a 25 target round of trap would be unpleasant at best.
Maybe you could shoot the NEF and Junior the Mossberg.

Dave McCracken
June 5, 2011, 09:01 PM
My lifetime round count has to be close to or over 100K.

I'm shooting about 1K rounds per month lately without any strain or pain.

For a 64 year old arthritic, I do pretty well with shotguns. Back in my 3 gun days, 50 rounds of 00 and 10 of slugs from an 870 was fun. Major fun.

And I'd rather not shoot a NEF/H&R single shot for trap or any other high volume shooting sport,unless I can add a good pad and cobble up some 3/4 oz reloads.

In fact, that's what I did with my NEF. It's a loaner for very small new shooters.

SeekHer
June 6, 2011, 12:54 AM
If you really want that single shot then what about in 20 or 28 instead of 12--eliminates the recoil problem but makes you have two different shells again.

If you must get a 12 for them--as some ranges will only allow them to be shot--then get at least a O/U or semi auto for more money granted but a lot less recoil...even a cheap Turkish or Russian import O/U would suffice.

Legacy Sports--Howa (http://www.legacysports.com/) imports some very inexpensive but really good quality shotguns under the Escort brand -- their Verona shotguns are rebadged Fausti and carry the same kind of price tag ($2,500+)

RugerMcMarlin
June 6, 2011, 01:55 AM
one quarter inch

Pete D.
June 6, 2011, 09:07 AM
2 3/4" shells will work just fine in the H&R and specifically, 1 ounce or 1 1/8 ounce trap loads are not going to be punishing to shoot, even in the lightweight single shot, even when shot in strings of 100 and a padded trap shooting vest will go a long way to ensuring no bruises.
Not punishing?
That is a very subjective comment. Before I had the funds to invest in a Trap gun, I tried quite a few of my other shotguns....one was a SS H&R. I padded the stock, added weight to the foreend and butt stock and took it to the Trap range. Trap loads only. It was the least fun to shoot of all of my shotguns. Very definitely a harder kicker.
Pete

Rshooter
June 6, 2011, 03:37 PM
I shot about eight boxes of 3 inch slugs one afternoon using a Remington 870. I learned that I prefer 2 3/4 inch shells that day.

Andrew Wyatt
June 6, 2011, 07:19 PM
If you do go with the NEF, go with the 20. it's a more suitable chambering for such a light gun.

Leaky Waders
June 6, 2011, 07:36 PM
For smaller shooters...i'd suggest a shotgun made for smaller shooters. I think BPS, 870's and even mossbergs come in smaller length of pull models. Get one in 20 or even better 28 gauge and you'll have a gun that everyone likes to shoot.

You could go auto. But there could be some reliability issues depending on your loads.

3 inch and 3 1/2 inch shells aren't so bad. They are best for the duck blind to keep steel payload at good velocity.

Onmilo
June 6, 2011, 08:46 PM
Well, that settles it.
If you are recoil sensitive, don't use a single barrel H&R for trap shooting,,,:D

Andrew Wyatt
June 7, 2011, 11:58 AM
Well, that settles it.
If you are recoil sensitive, don't use a single barrel H&R for trap shooting,,,:D

Dont use a single barrel H&R 12 gauge.

the 20s are much better.

RugerMcMarlin
June 8, 2011, 03:48 AM
Several years ago, Harrington & Richardson released a beautiful single, with case hardened receiver and I think a 32" Long Tom, full choke barrel called it a Harrington and Wesson. I would like that for a trap gun. I don't think I would let a wife or child shoot it though.

As for the 3" out of a single, If it was the only gun I had, and 3" were the only shells I had. And the bad guy was going to shoot me. I would want to know what with, before I made up my mind.

If you have no problem with 3" out of a 5 lb single shot. I would recommend you take up boxing, as another useful hobby.

popper
June 8, 2011, 05:26 PM
Get a youth 870. maveric or mossberg in 20 or 12 Ga (whichever the laws allow you to hunt whatever you are after). 20 Ga. will make a better shooter of him. Put a limb-saver on it as he/she grows. Full size is pretty barrel heavy for a youngster. You can always get a standard stock and or barrel later.

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