[rfwobbly]

I bought a very nice Browning Auto-5 in 16ga for dove hunting. While practicing at my club I've gotten interested in skeet. (Not necessarily competition, but just friendly 1 on 1.) 16ga shells are VERY hard to find and my gun club only allows 1 shell in the gun at a time.

So I've decided to buy a 12ga to take advantage of the cheaper/ more plentiful 12ga ammo. I'd like to hold the price to about $650. What would you suggest I buy? An O/U or a more modern auto? I'm the type guy who'd rather have a used Browning, Beretta or Benelli than a brand new no-name. But if an inexpensive gun like a Stoeger O/U is an outstanding deal, then let's hear it.

One last thing... no offense, but I'm not really interested in what you have. I'm more interested in what gun coaches are guiding their beginning students to so that they get the best value.

[USCGKal]

The local high school shooting team's coach seems to get everyone started out with an 1100 or 11-87. Only a few of the students have O/U's

[451 Detonics]

The Valmet 412 can often be picked up at bargain prices. I picked up a like new one for $600. Base Berettas and Browning can also be found for good prices if you are willing to shop around. Don't overlook the Remington Peerless either. AT Purdue the school owned team guns are mostly 1100's but from talking to the coach that is a price issue, he would much rather have O/Us but the school won't spring for them.

[Sauer Grapes]

Keep an eye out for a used SKB. They are much under rated shotguns. I have a Mod 500 I use for 5 stand and it's a really nice gun. If you find one with fixed chokes, you can either have it opened up, or get it machined for choke tubes.

[RugerMcMarlin]

Get another A5, Belgian,12 Skeet

[orphanedcowboy]

I would recommend another A-5, if you shoot your 16ga good and it fits you, this makes the most sense and they can be had in very good condition for well under your budget limit.

I bought some Belgium 12ga and 16ga A-5s recently for $350 - $450 range and all were crack free, in excellent condition and hunted or shot very little.

Another option is you could buy a 16ga press and handload your own shells, a MEC Sizemaster could be had for $150/$200 in used very good condition and then you have $450+ for supplies. The satisfaction from hunting and shooting with your own hand loads is bonus and adds a new dimension to your sport and you can fine tune the loads to your gun and your shooting style.

I would buy an additional fore end for your 16ga since they are prone to cracking, and while your at it you can reinforce both with epoxy and fiberglass or kevlar to prevent this. If you look at the receiver end of your fore end it has a small relief cut for the magazine cutoff and that is where most 16ga and 20ga A-5s crack.

[Hopkins]

If you shoot more than 200 targets with a competent instructor you will realize that a Browning A5 is no skeet gun. The most bang for your buck will be a 1100 or 11-87 with a 26" barrel.

[Twinbrook86]

I got a mossberg silver reserve 12ga at bass pro.
It's a over under


I love it

[Old Unc']

any nice previously owned Browning Citori 12ga/28" field grade. Makes a terrific skeet gun and built to last decades...
http://www.chuckhawks.com/browning_citori.jpg

[Cuzzin]

...my gun club only allows 1 shell in the gun at a time...
How would you shoot the doubles at station 1,2,6 and 7?

[rfwobbly]

Another option is you could buy a 16ga press and handload your own shells, a MEC Sizemaster could be had for $150/$200 in used very good condition and then you have $450+ for supplies. The satisfaction from hunting and shooting with your own hand loads is bonus and adds a new dimension to your sport and you can fine tune the loads to your gun and your shooting style.

That's been considered. I already reload metallic cartridges, so a lot of the powders are the same. But considering that my invite to dove hunt comes once or twice a year, I think a gun more optimized to skeet might be a better path.

[rfwobbly]

Quote:
...my gun club only allows 1 shell in the gun at a time...

How would you shoot the doubles at station 1,2,6 and 7?

I'm sure they allow 2 shells if it's doubles... not that I've gotten that far! :D

[Jim Watson]

I shoot Skeet with an Anschutz-Miroku O/U (allee samee Citori). But finding even a used Citori for $650 is going to be tough these days.

[Old Unc']

a nice used 12ga/28" Citori can be had for around $900...

[kbbailey]

I got a mossberg silver reserve 12ga at bass pro.

I can also recommend a Silver Reserve. I bought a 28ga from an unhappy shooter at the clays range. I had intended to just hunt quail with it, but it fits, and shoots great. I have shot trap, and sporting clays with it....maybe 2000 rds so far.

[Old Unc']

I bet the 28's fun to shoot!!

[Hopkins]

12ga recoil is a factor when you consider O/U guns for target shooting. It's true that most skeet shooters use tubed 12ga O/U's to shoot 20,28&.410 events. A lot of the same ones use 12ga gas operated guns in 12ga and double events for recoil reduction. A Remington 1100 or 11-87 with a 26" barrel has a 29" sighting plane which is more than enough for skeet and sporting clays. After market choke makers like Briley and Kolar specialize in screw in chokes for target shooting. Beretta's repeater is also very popular with skeet shooters.

[RugerMcMarlin]

A lot of times you can pick up a used Miroku or Charles Daly mid series Commanders(made by Miroku) O/U used for less than a Browning. Since they make the Browning too, its pretty much the same thing. I've had 2 Miroku skeet guns 12 and a 20, that cost $350 and $375, at the pawn shop, that would have sold for 5 or 6 if it said Browning.

[rfwobbly]

This is great insight guys. Keep it coming!

[oneounceload]

Get the twelve that fits - you can always reload down to 3/4 or 7/8 for softer shooting. You will be able to get a better quality semi for the same money than you would an O/U.

Regardless of brand name, if it doesn't fit, it doesn't matter how much or how little you spent

[RugerMcMarlin]

I suggested the A5, because you already had one in 16. Some guys, even competent Skeet instructors, can't hit with them. So they don't like them.
But they have sold a bunch of them, so somebody likes em.

I had a Remington 11-58 Skeet gun and I shot everything with it. Awesome pheasant gun.

With a lot of companies the models designated SKEET have premium wood. An auto 26" with skeet choke, cylinder, or Improved cylinder will all work and you won't have to pay for the high end wood. Gas auto might be a little better.

[Old Unc']

the A5 is a classic piece of machinery, but nowhere as refined as the newer gas guns. That includes the tried and true 1100, which I still shoot competitively...

[Hopkins]

No one shoots A5s or 11-48s in skeet shooting circles. The cycle time is too slow and bothersome for doubles and the recoil operating system dampens none of the recoil. Parts and service for either model is problematic in a lot of areas. For years Wayne Mayes held the High Overall 12ga skeet record with a Winchester 1400 shooting on order of 5000+ NSSA registered targets a year. I think he finally switched to a Beretta.

[orphanedcowboy]

If you shoot more than 200 targets with a competent instructor you will realize that a Browning A5 is no skeet gun. The most bang for your buck will be a 1100 or 11-87 with a 26" barrel.

No one shoots A5s or 11-48s in skeet shooting circles. The cycle time is too slow and bothersome for doubles and the recoil operating system dampens none of the recoil. Parts and service for either model is problematic in a lot of areas. For years Wayne Mayes held the High Overall 12ga skeet record with a Winchester 1400 shooting on order of 5000+ NSSA registered targets a year. I think he finally switched to a Beretta.

I disagree on both accounts, I did shoot an A-5 for many years at Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays, you may not see them to the extent you see the gas autos, but to say they have no place at the sport is wrong, and if the recoil is too heavy with target loads, something isn't set-up correctly.

Because you shoot one particular gun doesn't make any other gun a poor choice for the shooter, the person buying the gun has to decide if it is right for him. I have tried them all, what some call junkers to what some call overpriced, with proper maintenance they all go bang, while some are not as "nice" as others, they do what they were designed to do.

If this was me and I shot the 16ga A-5 good, I would buy a 12ga A-5 period. They set up the same, they tear down the same and they will only increase in value unlike other potential choices.

[RugerMcMarlin]

OK If you shoot an 1100, old unc will think you are" more refined.":scrutiny:

[Old Unc']

hehehe, I'll take an 1100 any day of the week over the Smithsonian Grade A5!! LOLOL... :)

PS: this is my skeet shooter!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mHngbd5JRf8/TcH34HaQWyI/AAAAAAAASwk/cOBSRO-pDFE/s912/DSC_0090-1.JPG

[Hopkins]

I will readily admit that the "Humpback" was the first successful autoloading design and its fans are legion. The Model 12 Winchester dominated on skeet and trap ranges up into the 60's because it was faster. Other pump guns did well also. A "Sweet 16" is unrivaled as a repeater for quail and rabbit hunting. The gun however does recoil more than a gas operated shotgun no matter how well it is set up. The gun's design also suffers on the skeet range at station 8 because of that humpback.

[Old Unc']

make no mistake, I would love to have a mint condition Sweet 16, just to admire and shoot infrequently. The best of the A5's IMHO...

[Dave McCracken]

I'm not seeing lots of A5s being ridden into various Clays Halls Of Fame, but I do see lots of happy A5 owners out using old Humpbacks. Some shoot them very,very well.

Get an A 5, install new Friction stuff and springs every 10K rounds, shoot it forever....

[Old Unc']

Dave, do you ever shoot at Loch Raven Trap and Skeet near Hunt Valley? I get there every now and then. Very nice facility, especially on week days, not to crowded...

[RugerMcMarlin]

Got a Miroku skeet gun just like that in 20ga.:)

[Hopkins]

Chances are the A5's in the best shape available today were made by Miroku.

[Old Unc']

"Got a Miroku skeet gun just like that in 20ga."

Outstanding!!! Miroku makes some of the best engineered guns irregardless of price...

[oneounceload]

Or the name they badge it with............... ;)

[rfwobbly]

So for pure skeet, is the 20/28ga preferred? I guess what I'm asking is do users typically hunt with the 12ga, and then tube down to 20ga for skeet? Effectively making the gun into "dual use" ? Is that better than simply using the 12ga 1oz low-recoil loads?

[oneounceload]

Depends.......I USED to have 12, 20 and 28 gauge guns, reloaders, components, etc. Once I saw how easy it was to download my 12 and 20 to 28 levels, I had no need for that third gauge. 95% or my shooting is at clay targets, so a 12 is my primary choice. I also have 20 guages I use for occasional targets and mostly bird hunting.

Skeet is a 4 gauge game - 12, 20, 28 and 410 - if you are going that route. Some folks only shoot in the 12 gauge event, but they might shoot a 12, 20, or 28 doing so.

What's going to work for you? Are you mostly a hunter looking to stay sharp in the off season shooting skeet? Are you interested in trap or sporting clays? Lots of things to consider.

If your primary objective in life is upland birds like dove and quail, get your nice 20 or 28 and shoot skeet with it to stay sharp.

If your primary objective is skeet competition and hunting in the fall, get the 12, a set of subgauge tubes in the other gauges and go have fun

[Dave McCracken]

Hardly ever.Unc. PGC Trap and Skeet is 20 minutes away from Casa McC. Great range.

I have shot a little at Marriotsville, but not recently since I do little trap lately.

[Hopkins]

Most skeet shooters reload and they practice with a 20ga because the hulls are cheap and readily available. 28ga is a joy on the skeet range but the hulls are pricey and scarce. I'm referring to target grade hulls designed with multiple reloads possible. The 12 can be loaded down as Oz.load says but at those pressures they won't cycle your A5 12ga and have to be taylored to cycle an 1100 or other gas repeater.
If you are going to reload for skeet by all means consider the O/U in 12ga, and a Miroku made gun is an excellent choice. Tube sets are going to cost as much as the gun budget you have however.

[BYJO4]

If you plan to just shoot skeet on a casual basis and don't reload alot, I think a Remington 1100 is an excellent choice. If you think you will get into competition shooting and/or reloading, the over/under is the way to go. As someone else mentioned, to shoot full competition you need 12, 20, 28, and 410. With the O/U in 12 Ga you can have tubes fitted for the other guages but they are expensive so don't buy a cheap shotgun that wont hold up over the long haul.

[RugerMcMarlin]

I bought a 20 gauge Miroku O/U skeet gun, because I liked it and thought it would be perfect for quail. I was correct. I had a Remington 11-58 16Gauge
skeet gun also perfect bird gun. Do they not shoot 16 any more for skeet?

[Hopkins]

They never did shoot 16ga registered targets. The 16 like the 20 or the smaller gauges can be shot in any class for a larger gauge. I believe your Remington was a Model 58 not a 11-58. The 11-48 was a streamlined Model 11 which is pretty much an A5. The 58 was an early gas gun that you could manually adjust the amount of gas diverted from the operating system.

[Hopkins]

The load restrictions for registered NSSA skeet targets were 1 1/8oz for 12ga, 7/8oz 20ga.,3/4oz for 28ga. and 1/2oz for 410. Of course there are no restrictions for how light a load you may shoot. I admit that I haven't shot skeet competitively in years so those weights may have been reduced since then.

[RugerMcMarlin]

Hopkins your right, had a knob for hi brass/low brass on the front of the fore end.

Held 3 shots. Hows Sportsman 58 Skeet ,sound to you? :)

[Hopkins]

Now you have it. You had me scratching my head for a while on that 58. They were Remingtons' first success with a gas operated repeating shotgun.

[RugerMcMarlin]

I'll tell you what else, I told Dave McC, I had a 11-58 trap last week. It was also a Sportsman 58 TRAP in 12. :o

[Hopkins]

The guns were innovative for their time and did bleed off a certain amount of recoil. I have an FN-Fal that has an adjustable gas system and you can really dial down the recoil on a .308 with it.

[rfwobbly]

Well, glad to report I had a great Club meeting tonight. Just as I got there a fellow member was walking out with 3 shotguns and 2 Mec reloading setups. He had 2 top-of-the-line Brownings and a 12ga 1100. The Brownings were way out of my league, but the 1100 was very nice. An "1100 Skeet" model with a ported barrel. Apparently he's selling them for another deceased member's family. The gun is well used, but clean and with just the tiniest of nicks. Obviously it had been loved on. And the price???.... half of anything on Gun Broker !!

So I really appreciate all the tips and pointers. I'll keep looking for the elusive $500 Citori, but until then I'm going to get some skeet training with my new toy!

;)

[USCGKal]

So the 1100 won you over for now? Congrats. You will enjoy the gun and should get you into the world of skeet. Just read up a bit on some of the common issues that can easily be fixed, and if you arent familiar, a quick rundown on the cleaning, and figure out if you are going to shoot it "wet" or "dry"

[Hopkins]

I predict 2 results from your purchase. 1. The dove will be in significantly more danger in Georgia. 2. Very few of those dove will succumb to your 16ga. Congrats on a well considered purchase that you won't regret.
I meant by the #2 statement that once you are acquainted and familiar with the 1100 on the skeet range you will find it difficult to leave it home when you go dove shooting.

[rfwobbly]

If any Georgia doves die while I'm in the field it will be because if laughter and not lead. :D

After saving so much on the gun, I about decided to get one of the Mec machines next month. Pretty soon I'll be saving so much I won't have to work!


Again, thanks for all the help with the beginner questions. ;)

[oneounceload]

16 gauge was shot for a while in the beginning of the game, but, IIRC, it was dropped in the late 30's/early 40's to make skeet a 4 bore game from 5

[RugerMcMarlin]

before you need one, take the o-ring off and go to Ace Hardware, and match it to the ones they have.They have various sizes,in a sectioned box. Buy a couple 3 of them, to have. I was unable to come up with one from Remington one time, and was forced to use one it works just dandy, in fact it's probably the one thats still in it. They are dimensionaly the same, and the material seems a little more resistant to oil or solvent.