30-30 or 44 mag


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ExAgoradzo
June 4, 2011, 08:15 PM
I have an opportunity to get one of these guns or the other. Both lever action. Neither with a scope. I want something without a scope that I could use for hunting at short distances but also steel sight targeting.

I have both a 30-06 and a 270 for larger game.

30-30 = post 64 Winchester 94
44 mag = Marlin 1895

Which do you think?

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Smokey in PHX
June 4, 2011, 08:59 PM
I have both guns. I prefer the 30-30 for deer but have shot deer with both. If buying factory ammo the 44's will propably be cheaper per 50 rounds. The Winchester rifle should be significantly cheaper than the Marlin.

You just need to pick what feels best for you.

DM~
June 4, 2011, 09:10 PM
I love the 44 cartridge, but if i could only have one of those two it would be the 30-30.

You already have better rifles than these two, so why not get a lever 22 and have some fun?

DM

45_auto
June 4, 2011, 09:32 PM
If it's a 44 mag I doubt if it is a Marlin 1895.

44 mag is chambered in the Marlin 1894, they made a few 336's in the 60's.

1895 is a long stroke heavy action chambered for 45/70, 444 Marlin, etc.

The 30-30 is a much more effective hunting round. More powerful and shoots much flatter than the 44 mag, which is a handgun cartridge.

Nathanael_Greene
June 4, 2011, 09:40 PM
30-30. But if I were you and already had a 30-30, I'd grab the .44 mag if the price was right.

nyc71
June 4, 2011, 10:23 PM
I had the same dilemma but after many post + hunter friend I decided to order the 30-30.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"- Benjamin Franklin

R.W.Dale
June 4, 2011, 10:35 PM
Get the marlin
Not because of the cartridge but because the 1894 is quite a bit nicer and all around more valuable than the post 64 winny


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tactikel
June 4, 2011, 10:36 PM
It depends where you hunt. Shots out to 75 yards would be OK with the .44. If you anticipate longer shots the .30-30 is really a better choice. With the new Hornady loads you can reach out with the .30-30 like never before. IMHO while the .44 is a really nice brush gun the .30-30 is much more versatile.

SlamFire1
June 4, 2011, 10:50 PM
On occasion I drag my M1894 in 44 Mag and shoot the thing at gong targets at 100 yards. I am always impressed with the power of the thing at that distance. It hits hard.

I do think once you get closer to 200 yards the 30-30 is the better hunting round but don't consider the 44 Magnum in a rifle as weak, at least up close.

My M1894 is light and handy and that is another reason I like it.

You really can't go wrong with either, buy both!

gathert
June 4, 2011, 11:18 PM
The 30-30 isnt going to be as hard on your shoulder and will be better at longer ranges. The .44 can give you a beating, but if you arent recoil shy, go for it. I have a Marlin 1894 in .44 Rem Mag and it is plenty accurate at 100 yards. Shot my first deer with that and it seemed it knocked the thing over :)

68wj
June 5, 2011, 12:38 AM
Do you own a .44 handgun? If so, get the .44 rifle. If not, get the .30-30. Just my $.02, you can keep the change. ;)

Jake1996
June 5, 2011, 12:41 AM
Either will be equal under 75 yards but the 30-30 has flatter trajectory with more energy out farther. Get which ever one you think feels better and whichever one best suits you're hunting situation.

MachIVshooter
June 5, 2011, 01:03 AM
The 30-30 is a much more effective hunting round. More powerful and shoots much flatter than the 44 mag, which is a handgun cartridge.

Not true. A heavy .44 load (such as offered by Buffalo Bore) out of a carbine will eclipse the .30-30 in energy and penetration, at the cost of a more curved trajectory. Both are confined to relatively short ranges anyway, though the Hornady FTX bullet (LeveRevolution) has increased the range potential of both cartridges.

For brush hunting, I'd take my 1894 .44 mag with heavy loaded 240 gr. JSP's over my 336 .30-30. Of course, in reality, I use my AR-10 carbine for this purpose.

ExAgoradzo
June 5, 2011, 01:07 AM
I typed 1895 but meant 1894; thanks for the observation.

Unfortunately I can't have both...I have a buddy that has a stainless 30-30.

It sounds like what you all are saying is that if I view this as primarily a hunting gun then the 30-30; if it is a target/fun gun then the 44 which is the better gun.

I guess I'll wait till I get my hands on both Monday: then decide.

Thanks,

R.W.Dale
June 5, 2011, 01:14 AM
which is the better gun.


without a doubt the marlin

You realize the 44mag isn't exactly a slouch for hunting when fired from a carbine

CraigC
June 5, 2011, 04:02 AM
The .30-30 has more range but the .44Mag, properly loaded, is more effective on game and can take larger game, within its effective range. The problem is that the slow twist of most .44 leverguns precludes use of heavyweight cast bullets that would be considered more effective than the .30WCF.

MachIVshooter
June 5, 2011, 02:10 PM
problem is that the slow twist of most .44 leverguns precludes use of heavyweight cast bullets that would be considered more effective than the .30WCF.

This is true. Most don't do well with 300 gr. and up. But there are a lot of good 225-270 grain bullets/loads out there that will stabilize just fine. My 1894 actually does OK with 300's, just doesn't like anything heavier (like BB's super heavy 340 gr.)

Fiv3r
June 5, 2011, 03:18 PM
I'd get the Marlin simply because it's probably a better made gun. I certainly wouldn't sneeze at the .44 mag going down a 20" barrel.

That said, I prefer the 30-30 over it as a rifle round. It's much more pleasant to shoot and common as dirt in my neck of the woods. Not that .44 mag is hard to find, it's just that there are boxes and boxes of 30-30 on the shelves year round ammo drought or not. A yeah and a half ago, I couldn't find much more than some of the weirder calibers for my pistols locally. Plenty of 30-30.

Harley Quinn
June 5, 2011, 03:26 PM
The 30-30 is a better all around :) Many bullets and loads to pick from...
Most of the time your 44m is a pistol load:uhoh:


Edit for R.W. Dale Comments:)

http://www.chuckhawks.com/30-30Win.htm

The reloader has access to a larger variety of bullet weights than the factories offer. These include 110 grain, 125 grain, 130 grain, 150 grain, and 170 grain bullets. Premium .30-30 bullets such as the 150 grain Barnes X-Bullet and 170 grain Nosler Partition bullet are available to the reloader, and a good choice if a .30-30 rifle is to be used on tough game. Conventional soft point bullets will often give quicker kills of CXP2 class game. Handloads can essentially duplicate the factory loads, but cannot exceed them by a meaningful amount.



Regards

R.W.Dale
June 5, 2011, 03:30 PM
The 30-30 is a better all around :) Many bullets and loads to pick from...
Most of the time your 44m is a pistol load:uhoh:

Regards

Yeah many bullets to choose from why you can have RN and FN bullets ranging from 150 grs to a whopping 170grs why that's an almost 20grn spread!

Rolleyes

Having owned both in carbines AND revolvers it's my opinion that 44 is the most versatile and powerful chambering


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SeekHer
June 5, 2011, 04:07 PM
What are you hunting and at what ranges?

Deer under 100 yds no difference but the .44 mag will be cheaper to feed but with much less variety of bullets...Out to 150 yds the .30 WCF will be the flatter shooting and harder hitting and beyond that distance neither carbines are 200 yd guns but the .30 WCF will at least kill at that range--cleanly especially in a rifle length barrel.

Hornady .30/30 Win, 170 gr InterLock FP
Test Barrel (24")
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle...............100.............200............300
2200/1827.....1796/1218.....1450/793.....1186/530

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle.....100........200........300
-1.50.......0.00.....-9.40.....-35.70

Hornady .44 Mag 225 gr FTX LEVERevolution
Rifle (20" Barrel)
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle...............50................100
1870/1747.....1629/1325......1416/1002

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle.....50........100........200........300
-1.5....... 0.9........0.0......-16.2......-60.0

Results from Hornady Ballistic calculator

buck460XVR
June 5, 2011, 04:16 PM
Sounds like to me you are lookin' for more of a "fun" gun since you already have two dedicated hunting rifles. In this case I suggest the .44 lever. It also gives you the excuse to get a matching revolver..........

R.W.Dale
June 5, 2011, 04:16 PM
Where are you guys getting that .44 has less of a variety of bullets?

A .44 carbine can not only shoot bullets ranging from 180g to well north of 300 it can also fire another cartridge.

If you don't count the same bullet from different makers there are pretty much only FOUR bullets for 30/30
125g hpFP's
150g FN or FP
170g RN or FP
and the 160g FTX

THATS IT


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LTR shooter
June 5, 2011, 04:29 PM
I like the 44 mag in lever gun. With the longer barrel the 44 mag lever can have as much power at 100 yards as some 44 revolvers at the muzzle. For a short range hunter I like the 44 Marlin. The accuracy is usually pretty good too , at least with the 240 grains I have fired.

The .30-30 is still a actual rifle cartridge and maybe a better choice at longer ranges. Although you have the longer ranges covered with the .30-06.

Jason_W
June 5, 2011, 04:41 PM
Since the OP already has a .270 and a an '06 for 125+ yard shots, I'd get the .44 for poking big holes in things at close and medium ranges.

Harley Quinn
June 5, 2011, 07:18 PM
If you look at it, as been mentioned:uhoh:

Maybe for this person the 44 Mag is a better choice:)

Reloading the 44 you do have a lot of choices, also...:what:

CraigC
June 6, 2011, 01:13 AM
It's interesting that some folks think the .44Mag is unpleasant in a rifle. I shot and hunted with .30-30's long before I got my first .44Mag. When I did, I was shocked that it was not only pleasant to shoot with less recoil than the old .30WCF but that the muzzle blast was also very mild.

The slow twist Marlins do tend to do well up to 300gr. My "S" model has an unreasonable fondness for 270gr Gold Dots and that is an excellent game bullet for critters up to elk.

MachIVshooter
June 6, 2011, 03:41 AM
Hornady .30/30 Win, 170 gr InterLock FP
Test Barrel (24")
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle...............100.............200............300
2200/1827.....1796/1218.....1450/793.....1186/530

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle.....100........200........300
-1.50.......0.00.....-9.40.....-35.70

Hornady .44 Mag 225 gr FTX LEVERevolution
Rifle (20" Barrel)
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle...............50................100
1870/1747.....1629/1325......1416/1002

Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle.....50........100........200........300
-1.5....... 0.9........0.0......-16.2......-60.0

How many '94s have you seen with a 24" tube? Figure on loosing 100-120 FPS for a normal 20" .30-30 levergun

SeekHer
June 6, 2011, 06:42 AM
Actually, quite a few--lever action rifles not carbines.

Rare Winchesters - http://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1894/model_94.shtml
Winchester Arms Collectors - http://www.winchestercollector.org/guns/1894.shtml

Also try the Savage Model 99 and Marlin 336 in lever; Winchester Model 54, Savage Models 340 and 840 and the Remington 788 all bolt actions; Winchester 1885 HiWall as well as Ballard, Stevens et al in single shots...Oh, I nearly forgot, the Marlin Model 1895 Cowboy (26")...Take a look at some of the rifle and carbine length Italian imports by Cimarron, Taylor, Uberti, Pedersoli that are available.

If you got a problem with the data then complain to the manufacture, Hornady, since all five of the loadings available by them are based on a 24" barrel.

It also seems that the other ammo makers are using similar length barrels since Federal lists their 170 gr SP RN and the Nosler Partition at 2200 fps and 1827 ft/lbs, Remington 170 gr Core Lokt and Fiocchi FSP are also listed the same...Sellier & Bellot list only a 150 gr at 728 mps (2388 fps) from a 60cm (23.62") barrel...Winchester also only offers a 150 gr PowerMax Bonded at with no "at muzzle" velocity just at 100 yds of 2028 fps but the energy is at muzzle 1902 ft/lbs--go figure?

R.W.Dale
June 6, 2011, 09:21 AM
The OP mentions a post 64 win 94

That pretty much by default means a 20" barrel which will put you in the 2100fps range with 170's and mid 2200 with 150"s


But what do I know about 30/30's I've only owned 2 savage 340's, 1 rem 788, 2 marlin 336's, a pre 64 winny AND a 10" BFR revolver.

BTW the bolt guns both had very slow 22" bbls one 340 wouldn't break 1950fps with factory rem 170g ammo. So take manufacturers stated velocities for 30/30 with a HUGE grain of salt


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Eb1
June 6, 2011, 11:02 AM
I load my 30-30 with 125 grain HP from 2150 fps to 2550 fps. Let me tell you also that I own a Ruger SBH that shoots MO Cast Bullet Keith 240 grain Lead. I am fimiliar with both calibers. Although one is pistol and the other rifle, but I think that the 125 grain HP from a 30-30 in the velocity range I have mentioned is a deadly deer getter. I know it is. When I stopped using 150-170 fp/rn bullets, and switched to these. The tracking deer stopped.

I am looking for a .44 Stainless 1864 to match my Ruger, but just for looks and fun. If I want to go serious with a lever gun, I choose the 30-30 with my hand loads using Sierra 125 grain HPs, and the party is over for whatever I take aim on.

What I am saying is you can make the 30-30 whatever you want it to be. Lead with pistol powder, lighter rounds at blazing speed with a 110 Speer HP and H335 for a 2650 fps laser beam, a super duper .30 cal using IMR3031/H4895/IMR4895/VVN120 using the 125 grain Sierra HP, or you can shoot the good old 170 grain Winchester Silver Tips to the classic 170 grain Federals which are a great and accurate bullet.
Take a 12 gauge 00 buck shot ball with pistol powder, and you have a plinker on the real cheap.
The 30-30 is a much more versatile rifle than the .44 Mag (Pistol Cartridge) out of a rifle.

From my calculations you can load the 30-30 with bullet weights from 53.8 gr to 190 grains. Kinda like the good old 30-06. You just gotta have the means and know how to do it.

Harley Quinn
June 6, 2011, 01:25 PM
The idea of loading 00 buck ball, is interesting, crimp being very important:uhoh:

Eb1
June 6, 2011, 03:12 PM
I don't know that I'd load it in the magazine tube.:what: Single shot.

ssyoumans
June 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
I own both a Marlin 336 and the 1894. For Ga woods hunting here, either works great, rarely a shot over 75 yards. 240gr JHP XTP makes a big hole and will put them down cleanly. I wouldn't hesitate to use either. Ditto for hogs.

The 44 Mag gets shot about 3-4x as often. I reload, and I can load 150 rounds of 44 Mag in an hour, but that would take me at least 4 hours to reload 30-30. Straight wall pistol are quick to reload and rarely need case prep like bottle neck rifle cartridges.

Eb1
June 6, 2011, 04:01 PM
+1 on the reloading time. Knocking out .44 Magnums is a breeze compared to necked down rifle.
Each has its advantage. I think I would enjoy shooting a 1894 or other .44 Mag lever gun a lot. So I am looking to add one in the next 2 to 4 years, but loading down the 30-30 to 2150 fps with a 125 grain HP is recoil free (think .223 from an AR), and is a hoot.

Jeb21
June 6, 2011, 06:13 PM
30-30 would be my choice.

45_auto
June 6, 2011, 08:41 PM
Not true. A heavy .44 load (such as offered by Buffalo Bore) out of a carbine will eclipse the .30-30 in energy and penetration, at the cost of a more curved trajectory.

Which Buffalo Bore .44's have more energy than a .30-30? Most .30-30's are well over 1800 ft-lb, many are over 2000. Most powerful Buffalo Bore .44's I can find are here, at 1650 ft-lb.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=9

CraigC
June 6, 2011, 08:59 PM
Which Buffalo Bore .44's have more energy than a .30-30? Most .30-30's are well over 1800 ft-lb, many are over 2000. Most powerful Buffalo Bore .44's I can find are here, at 1650 ft-lb.
Muzzle energy is meaningless. If you believe in energy, you would believe that the original .45Colt load, consisting of a 255gr at 900fps would bounce off a 100lb deer. No, energy does not tell us much and the .44Mag is capable of taking larger game than the .30-30.

45_auto
June 6, 2011, 09:12 PM
Sorry, I must have had typing problems. Didn't remember typing that a 44 wouldn't kill a deer. If you don't believe in energy, try not paying your electric bill for a couple of months.

Machivshooter specifically said (please read the quote):

A heavy .44 load (such as offered by Buffalo Bore) out of a carbine will eclipse the .30-30 in energy

See where he said "energy"?

I was merely asking him for a reference.

ExAgoradzo
June 6, 2011, 09:23 PM
I am now the owner of an 1894 octagon 44 mag. As it turns out the 30-30 was already gone. And since I 'inherited' it I have absolutely nothing to complain about.

Legionnaire
June 6, 2011, 09:25 PM
OP already has a .270 and a .30-06; he's got the hunting bases covered. If the choice were between the .44 mag and the .30-30 as a primary hunting rifle, I'd opt for the latter.

But since he already has a couple of excellent hunting cartridges, I'd vote .44 mag Marlin all the way ... especially if he also has a .44 mag revolver. The .44 is a great cartridge with all kinds of potential, especially if one reloads. In that case, one can load very mild plinking loads using inexpensive hard cast bullets up to hard-hitting hunting loads. Just a full all-around cartridge!

Legionnaire
June 6, 2011, 09:26 PM
Wow, you posted just as I was typing my reply. Good outcome! And the octagon barrel has real class. Good get!

Jason_W
June 6, 2011, 09:27 PM
Muzzle energy is meaningless. If you believe in energy, you would believe that the original .45Colt load, consisting of a 255gr at 900fps would bounce off a 100lb deer. No, energy does not tell us much and the .44Mag is capable of taking larger game than the .30-30.

To further that line of thinking, a 100 grain bullet from a .243 will have approximately 1615 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards. A 405 grain bullet at 100 yards will only have 1227 ft/lbs of energy.

The scenario: The moose of a lifetime is standing 100 yards away and the only two guns available are a .243 and a 45/70. Which of the two is the better choice for the task at hand?

R.W.Dale
June 7, 2011, 12:50 AM
Which Buffalo Bore .44's have more energy than a .30-30? Most .30-30's are well over 1800 ft-lb, many are over 2000. Most powerful Buffalo Bore .44's I can find are here, at 1650 ft-lb.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=9

I'm on the iPhone right now so I don't have access to EXACT numbers but from a carbine middle of the road 240g loads will do 1850 FPS + and in the process generate 1800+ ft lbs


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Harley Quinn
June 7, 2011, 11:44 AM
I am now the owner of an 1894 octagon 44 mag. As it turns out the 30-30 was already gone. And since I 'inherited' it I have absolutely nothing to complain about.

Congratulations:)



I'm on the iPhone right now so I don't have access to EXACT numbers but from a carbine middle of the road 240g loads will do 1850 FPS + and in the process generate 1800+ ft lbs

That is what 440 Corbon puts out in the 240 grain I shoot in my Desert Eagle 10'' barrel...Not sure the 44Mag has that kind of power:uhoh:
SAAMI specs :)

T.R.
June 7, 2011, 12:29 PM
RUGER 96 44 MAG http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/Ruger_96.jpg Winchester 94 30-30 http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/forky4fin.jpg

I own carbines chambered for both cartridges and have taken many animals with them as well. For shots out to about 85 yards or so, the mighty 44 is tough to beat in the performance department. It makes big holes with Hornady XTP hollow tips. Paper figures on ballistic charts do not reveal this massive tissue damage and resulting effect. In many areas of America, 85 yards is a long shot due to thickly forested woodlands. I feel that 44 MAG is quite the smart choice for these conditions.

44 Special is sub-sonic yet is quite accurate at close range. This is an excellent no recoil plinking ammo. Many 44 MAG carbines can shoot this cartridge quite well.

30-30 is my favorite for spot & stalk hunting in the forests and foothills. I've toppled deer well past 150 yards with deadly effect. The newer ammo by Hornady shows great promise of extending the lethal reach to beyond 200 yards. Simply stated, the 30-30 has been an outstanding hunting cartridge for over 100 years and that's because of its performance at typical hunting distances.

Hoping this is helpful.

TR

336A
June 7, 2011, 01:01 PM
Like T.R. I own and hunt with both cartridges. When the vegetation is going to be thick and shot oppotunities will be <100yd I take the .44 carbine (marlin 1894SS). The rest of the time I use the .30/30 and it has never let me down.

I reload for my .44 using a full load of H110 behind a 240gr XTP-HP, I figure that this is good for about 1800fps or so. Very few loads will get above 1800fps while the vast majority will get about 1700fps to 1750fps from a 20" barrel.

When the H110 is gone I'm switching over to 2400 so I don't have to keep buying Magnum Primers all the time. Besides 2400 and a 240gr bullet is going to take care of anything I'll ever hunt whether it is deer, pig, or black bear.

R.W.Dale
June 7, 2011, 01:06 PM
Congratulations:)



That is what 440 Corbon puts out in the 240 grain I shoot in my Desert Eagle 10' barrel...Not sure the 44Mag has that kind of power:uhoh:
SAAMI specs :)
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=232

1. 1935 fps -- Marlin 1894 20 inch 1918 ft lbs

2. 1897 fps -- Marlin 1894 18 inch

3. 1871 fps -- Marlin 1894 16.5 inch

4. 1578 fps -- Ruger Super Blackhawk 5.5 inch

5. 1535 fps -- Ruger Redhawk 5.5 inch

6. 1466 fps -- S&W MT Gun 4 inch

im sure other loads hit 1800ft lbs from a carbine too but the problem is only buffalo bore gives you actual firearm results

336A
June 7, 2011, 01:12 PM
I'm sure that Harley was refering to ammo commonly sold by the big companies not the expensive boutique companies such as BB.
Typical performance (ammo most commonly purchased and available) of the .44 mag from a 20" carbine will look as follows whether it is reloads or factory ammo.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=114

R.W.Dale
June 7, 2011, 01:16 PM
I'm sure that Harley was refering to ammo commonly sold by the big companies not the expensive boutique companies such as BB.
Typical performance (ammo most commonly purchased and available) of the .44 mag from a 20" carbine will look as follows whether it is reloads or factory ammo.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=114
such as 440 cor bon?


note the unspecified bbl length

336A
June 7, 2011, 01:28 PM
I'm on the iPhone right now so I don't have access to EXACT numbers but from a carbine middle of the road 240g loads will do 1850 FPS + and in the process generate 1800+ ft lbs

That is what 440 Corbon puts out in the 240 grain I shoot in my Desert Eagle 10' barrel...Not sure the 44Mag has that kind of power
SAAMI specs

Harley was replying to your post where you sated that middle of the road .44 mag performance is 1850fps +. Harley said that that type of performance is what he gets from a 440 Corbon from a 10" barrel and was not sure the .44 mag could that safley that is where the comparison ended.

The only way a .44 mag will get 1850fps with a 240gr bullet is from buying boutique ammo such as BB. Or you handload full house loads with with H110 or similair powders. I've been loading the .44 mag for my carbine since 2005, and can tell you that anything over 1850fps with the over the counter powders available today would be an unsafe load. A max load of H110 with a 240gr bullet may get you close to 1850fps but I doubt it will put you over that safely.

336A
June 7, 2011, 01:30 PM
Re read the post from Harley he said 10" barrel in his post.

R.W.Dale
June 7, 2011, 01:38 PM
then can we agree then that the energy difference between 30-30 and 44mag from a carbine is pretty small and for the most part meaningless.

Because remember you gotta knock back 30-30 published velocities to reflect a 20bbl. And don't try to act like a 24" 30-30 is anything but a rarity. Because in my past 10 years in the hobby hitting every gunshop and show within 200 miles I've NEVER seen one

Harley Quinn
June 7, 2011, 01:38 PM
Well, the 440 Corbon is a round that was built around the DE as I recall...
True it is an exotic one:)

The .50 AE was introduced in the Desert Eagle from Magnum Research 1991, and shortly thereafter shooters began wondering whether there was an alternative to the heavy recoil of the .50 round but still with substantial stopping power, like the .44 Magnum.

In designing the .440, Cor-bon created a lighter recoiling round with as much or greater penetrating power than the .44 Magnum. The round has a flatter trajectory, and leaves the barrel faster than either the .50 AE or the .44 Mag. However, the cartridge has never taken off, and has remained fairly expensive.

I prefer it to the 50 AE (I have both)... Second and third shots are faster...
http://zvis.com/dep/articles/aevscorb.shtml

Most of the 44 Mag ammo off the shelf is half the power of a 440 Corbon...It is primarily built for Revolvers...Does not even shoot well in the DE...

I buy the 44 Mag +P (place in Eldorado CA) or load them hot!!! If I want to be able to shoot my XIX, as more than a single shot:D

+ P is what BB loads up... Guess again if you want to shoot it very much in a Revolver :eek:
Not very user friendly, but in DE 44 Mag+P a very shootable situation:D

Back in the 80s use to load up 44 Mags 240 grain bullet with 24 grains of 2400:what:Shot the screws loose and really a very dangerous situation in Revolvers...Not in DE though:D

Been told about the pressures several times, not a recommended situation on THR:)

MachIVshooter
June 7, 2011, 03:40 PM
Which Buffalo Bore .44's have more energy than a .30-30? Most .30-30's are well over 1800 ft-lb, many are over 2000. Most powerful Buffalo Bore .44's I can find are here, at 1650 ft-lb.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=9

That's from a 7.5" HANDGUN. Even if we only give 20 FPS per inch, that's a 250 FPS increase for 2,254 ft/lbs. out of a 20" rifle.

Normal off-the-shelf .44 ammo will hit in the 1,500-1,800 ft/lbs range from a 20" gun Normal .30-30 off-the-shelf .30-30 ammo will be 1,700-1,900 from the same tube length. Handloading and botique ammo will bring both over 2,000 FPE.

45_auto
June 7, 2011, 07:10 PM
It appears that we have a discrepancy on the definition of eclipse.

Apparently you believe that 1,500-1,800 ft-lbs eclipses 1,700-1,900 ft/lbs.

The most common definition of "eclipse" as used in your post #12 means "surpass". The energy figures you quote in post #54 don't appear to support that assertion.


A heavy .44 load (such as offered by Buffalo Bore) out of a carbine will eclipse the .30-30 in energy


Normal off-the-shelf .44 ammo will hit in the 1,500-1,800 ft/lbs range from a 20" gun Normal .30-30 off-the-shelf .30-30 ammo will be 1,700-1,900 from the same tube length.

e·clipse   /ɪˈklɪps/

noun, verb, e·clipsed, e·clips·ing
–verb (used with object)

surpass: [I]a soprano whose singing eclipsed that of her rivals.


-

CraigC
June 7, 2011, 07:25 PM
24" barrelled .30-30's are not rare. I have one and another that was 24" but cut to 20" long before I came along. Folks are just used to seeing 20" carbines. Marlin and Winchester currently both make 24" models.

Dr.Rob
June 7, 2011, 07:48 PM
Past 150 yards you need tang sights on a 44, not so with a 30-30.

I prefer the Marlin action to the Winchester, the 44 is a lot of fun in a rifle.

R.W.Dale
June 7, 2011, 08:40 PM
Past 150 yards you need tang sights on a 44, not so with a 30-30.

I prefer the Marlin action to the Winchester, the 44 is a lot of fun in a rifle.

Past 150 yds the OP owns a 30/06 and 270 iirc

And yes 24" 30/30's are RARE on the used market with the vast vast majority from the past 40 years being 20" carbines


Tapatalk post via IPhone.

Harley Quinn
June 8, 2011, 11:06 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_Magnum

Reloading does make the 44 Mag seem like the perfect pair, revolver on hip and carbine at shoulder...:what:

Tests with various ammunition in the Ruger Deerfield yielded a 100 yard (90 m) velocity of over 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s) with a 240-grain (16 g) bullet, comparable to the muzzle velocity out of a revolver.[18][19] Loads using slow burning powders maximize performance in both short and long barrels, with one published load generating 1,500 ft/s (460 m/s) from a revolver, and 1,625 ft/s (495 m/s) from a carbine with a 240-grain (16 g) bullet.[20]

CraigC
June 8, 2011, 11:34 AM
That's very odd. A load that generates 1500fps out of a revolver should be running at least 1800fps from a carbine, if not 1900fps.

MachIVshooter
June 9, 2011, 01:00 AM
It appears that we have a discrepancy on the definition of eclipse.

Apparently you believe that 1,500-1,800 ft-lbs eclipses 1,700-1,900 ft/lbs.

The most common definition of "eclipse" as used in your post #12 means "surpass". The energy figures you quote in post #54 don't appear to support that assertion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by machivshooter post #12
A heavy .44 load (such as offered by Buffalo Bore) out of a carbine will eclipse the .30-30 in energy

Quote:
Originally Posted by machivshooter post #54
Normal off-the-shelf .44 ammo will hit in the 1,500-1,800 ft/lbs range from a 20" gun Normal .30-30 off-the-shelf .30-30 ammo will be 1,700-1,900 from the same tube length.

e·clipse   /ɪˈklɪps/
[ih-klips]
noun, verb, e·clipsed, e·clips·ing
–verb (used with object)

surpass: a soprano whose singing eclipsed that of her rivals.

You need to work on your reading comprehension

Once more, I said:

A heavy .44 load (such as offered by Buffalo Bore) out of a carbine will eclipse the .30-30 in energy

and then:

Normal off-the-shelf .44 ammo will hit in the 1,500-1,800 ft/lbs range from a 20" gun Normal .30-30 off-the-shelf .30-30 ammo will be 1,700-1,900 from the same tube length

Do you understand? Quit trying to prove things that nobody is arguing in the first place.

shiftyer1
June 9, 2011, 02:02 AM
I don't have a .44 but I do have a .357 carbine. I also have .357 revolvers, I love to pair them up and be able to use the same ammo. I'd like to do .44's also someday. It's a big plus to only have to grab 1 box of ammo for 2 guns.

I also own a 30-30, I think everyone should own a 30-30 lever gun.

Congrats on the .44 and the octagon barrel makes it even better:) I've often wondered what benefit octagon barrels serve other than good looks?

Hmm I wonder if a deer or a hog ever think..... DAMN I thought I was ok, it was only goin 1739 fps. Momma said anything under 1800 didn't hurt.

45_auto
June 9, 2011, 08:24 AM
Originally Posted by machivshooter post #12
A heavy .44 load (such as offered by Buffalo Bore) out of a carbine will eclipse the .30-30 in energy

Originally Posted by machivshooter post #54
Normal off-the-shelf .44 ammo will hit in the 1,500-1,800 ft/lbs range from a 20" gun Normal .30-30 off-the-shelf .30-30 ammo will be 1,700-1,900 from the same tube length.

I consider Buffalo Bore to be off-the-shelf ammo. Still haven't seen any references to any off-the-shelf 44 mag that "eclipses" .30-30. You do carry on about it rather impressively for not being able to provide any references, though. Do you understand?

If you want to talk hand loads and custom loads for 44's, at least use something loaded relatively hot in the .30-30 for comparison. For example, the off-the-shelf Hornady Lever Evolution claims to deliver 2400 ft-lbs of energy. Took all of 5 seconds to find a reference for it:

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=79372

Feel free to blather on at your convienience rather than provide any references to actual data. It is the internet, after all! ;)

R.W.Dale
June 9, 2011, 09:29 AM
Yes lest compare REAL data and not the 24" test barrel velocities you seem do fond of quoting for 30/30

http://www.realguns.com/archives/120.htm

OH MY! this shows that from 20" barrels the 44 magnum Buffalo Bore I linked to DOES in fact out energy even the much vaunted leverrevolution.

Just in case you can't find if that's 1918 ft lbs for the BB 140 grn load vs 1840 ft lbs for the Hornady 30/30 both from a 20" carbine.

But hey by all means feel free to ignore the "data" and blather on after being proven wrong. This is the Internet after all.

Tapatalk post via IPhone.

MachIVshooter
June 9, 2011, 10:57 AM
I consider Buffalo Bore to be off-the-shelf ammo

Good for you. Meanwhile, everyone else realizes it's semi-custom botique ammo that's seldom stocked in any store. Of over 20 gun shops and countless sporting goods stores in the Denver area, I've only ever seen a selection of BB at the largest (The Firing Line). They carry a ton of stuff no one else does. Sportmans Warehouse used to carry some BB ammo before they closed.

Still haven't seen any references to any off-the-shelf 44 mag that "eclipses" .30-30.

Don't need to. I plainly stated in numbers that standard .44 Mag DOES NOT exceed the .30-30 in energy. Yet you seem intent that I meant the opposite.

Maybe you just have some kind of bias and are hurt to admit that there are .44 loads equal to and even in excess of .30-30. If you're somehow emotionally invested in this, that's unfortunate for you. I own guns in both chamberings and enjoy them all, and I am not bothered when new loads for one surpass the performance of another. Happens all the time. And because I don't really care, I'm able to look at this objectively and understand that 1) .44 mag has been pushed to new heights in recent years, bringing it's performance from a handgun very near the .454 Casull and 2) that any .30-.30 load listed with a test barrel of 24" is going to lose around 100 FPS in the much more common 20" barrels of Marlin and Winchester carbines.

If you want to stick with .30-30 for your purposes, go for it. It's a good round. But please stop trying to convince others that it has some kind of massive advantage over the .44 Magnum, because the reality is very different. We haven't even got into the penetration of that 340 gr. load vs. any of the available .30-30 ammo (though I'm sure you'd argue that, too)

MichaelK
June 9, 2011, 11:18 AM
Rather than go on and on about this load vs. that load it might be more worthwhile to point out that the .44 magnum starts out making a hole that's 40% bigger than a .30-30. Couple that to the idea that a .44 hollowpoint will mushroom larger than a .30-30's softpoint, you end up with a MUCH larger hole.

That, I think, is the big difference that you'll see in the field once you hit that deer. Yes, the energy level is very important, but so is the size of that hole!

ExAgoradzo
June 13, 2011, 04:49 PM
Congrats on the .44 and the octagon barrel makes it even better I've often wondered what benefit octagon barrels serve other than good looks?

Hmm I wonder if a deer or a hog ever think..... DAMN I thought I was ok, it was only goin 1739 fps. Momma said anything under 1800 didn't hurt.

Thanks, I'm stoked. Heading out at 2 today to shoot it first time. My boys will be shooting their first 20gauge as well. Very happy about that.

LOL! at your hog..."I thought I was ok!" LOL!

@everyone. I really enjoyed all this discussion. I now know a ton more about the ammo on this. Unfortunately, Bass Pro Shop doesn't have a wide selection of ammo. I'm going to get some light 44 for targeting and some larger for that deer this fall!

tikka-guy
June 13, 2011, 10:38 PM
Congrats on the purchase. I've got a 1894 in .44 mag and I love it. Absolute blast to shoot, and it's just fun to put 10 rounds in the magazine :)

I haven't taken anything with it yet, but I've taken it out for deer a few times. Mostly when I'm in really thick stuff, but once I figured it was the better choice due to a torrential downpour that makes a scope a pain in the butt.

I may have missed it, so if this was gone over already I apologize, but I much prefer a peep sight to the factory sights. I'd highly suggest one if it still has the factory sights on it. Skinner Sights are a popular choice, although I didn't find out about those until I already purchased some Williams sights for mine.

Have fun!

ExAgoradzo
June 14, 2011, 09:38 PM
I'll check the Skinner sights, thanks. These are factory with out a doubt. However, as I need to repair my M1894 357 and my 30-06, my gun budget is out to lunch for a bit. I tried doing a repair on my Blackhawk myself and found out that not having gunsmithing screwdrivers is a bad idea: fortunately my buddy Walt was able to help me out...

Again, thanks for the comments guys: I'm always happy to learn.

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