AR15 favroite brand poll


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Apocalypse-Now
June 5, 2011, 04:32 AM
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gathert
June 5, 2011, 04:34 AM
If you say poll, you might actually want to include one. You can build a custom one for cheaper than you can buy in some cases, so dont rule that out. Plus it will be your custom little piece of work and not another cookie cutter AR-15. Magpull parts are always top of the line for furniture.

Apocalypse-Now
June 5, 2011, 04:35 AM
If you say poll, you might actually want to include one.

you might actually want to have a little patience while i make the poll ;)

Chris Rhines
June 5, 2011, 08:57 AM
It's tough to recommend an AR-15 without having some idea of what you want to use it for. Home defense carbine, LEO duty rifle, 3-gun competition, hunting, or just dirt shooting at the range, all have different requirements.

That said, I've had flawless performance from my two Bravo Company carbines, and excellent service from the company. I'm not a super high volume rifle shooter, though.

-C

Tirod
June 5, 2011, 10:08 AM
Usually polls are posted with the thread.

Buying a lower without involving an FFL isn't going to happen legally unless it's purchased from a private citizen.

From the specs, it appears a milspec M4gery is what is desired - whether or not that actually fills the bill for what you need, only you know - and didn't tell us.

Since all there is to decide is what Brand, pick which cool rolllmark impresses most, and go for it. What the target is, at what range doesn't seem to be a consideration much.

Zerodefect
June 5, 2011, 10:25 AM
also want a free floating quad rail.
minus well buy the upper and lower seperate then.

i want a 1:9 twist, to give me decent accuracy with the cheapest ammo available. 1/7 or 1/8 is still better IME

i've only looked at one Daniel Defense AR, and honestly, i wasn't as impressed as many seem to be. heavy trigger pull, and space between the upper&lower receivers. really like that lightweight rail though. maybe it was just the one i saw.
that all sounds normal.


thank you, guys :)

FF upper forearms are really a shooters choice. Check out a local 3 gun event. Everyone is using long freeloat tubes, but every single shooter has a slightly different setup.

So I'd recommend that you order a complete lower assembly from you local gun store. The LMT's with the Sopmod stock are very nice.

Then choose a upper reciever from BCM that fits you. They have the largest selection. Then snap the two pieces together.

I'd recommend a 14.5" or 16" with a long Larue rail.


Or just get the DD recce.

Robert
June 5, 2011, 10:26 AM
Like Chris said, the intended uses has a lot of bearing on what may work best for you. My AR is built around a RRA upper and lower and thus I voted for RRA. It works great for rolling around in the dirt and dust and hitting far away steel from funny positions.
My rifle:
RRA upper and lower
Unknown internals
JP Stock
Hogue Grip
Colt medium contour barrel, 1:7
Yankee 4 rail float tube
Miculek Comp

I will say this about quad rails. They are heavier than a regular float tube and unless you are planning on running lights, lasers, and other tacticool gear, they are not a requirement. I'd like to swap mine out for something like a Troy VTAC Rail TRX or a JP float tube. And while I am a fan or rifle length barrels if a shorter barrel works for you then go for it.

A note on twist. General rule of thumb is 1:7 can shoot every thing from 55gr surplus to 80 grain hand loads. So do feel like you need 1:9 to shoot surplus.

MaterDei
June 5, 2011, 10:27 AM
Usually polls are posted with the thread.

Actually, no. Unless I'm missing something the thread must be posted before the poll can even be created. Just the way it works...

I voted Stag because it's what I have. :) I built it from a stripped lower and complete upper. I used a RRA lower parts kit and other than a creeping trigger pin I've been pretty happy with the build.

Heretic
June 5, 2011, 01:58 PM
DPMS! Stag's really good too.

erikd65
June 5, 2011, 02:44 PM
I have a Spikes and an Armalite, Both awesome rifles. They get my vote :)

Apocalypse-Now
June 5, 2011, 02:59 PM
that all sounds normal.

yeah, i looked at a DD today, and it was the same thing. the rock rivers i looked at didn't have any space between the upper and lowers. i know DD just started making AR's last year, that's why i'm kinda hesitant on that brand, although i like their rail systems they come with :)

having a larry vicker's super duper tacticool model for marketing purposes doesn't impress me.



They are heavier than a regular float tube and unless you are planning on running lights, lasers, and other tacticool gear, they are not a requirement.

i want a quad for iron sights, vertical grip, and a tac light.

wnycollector
June 5, 2011, 03:47 PM
Another vote of buying a complete lower and complete upper and pinning them together. That way you get exactly what you want plus you can save enough $$$ to pick up a few hundred rounds to practice with.

i want a 1:9 twist, to give me decent accuracy with the cheapest ammo available.

You might want to check out the RRA ATH. I have one and it will shoot nice consistent 2-2.5" groups @ 100 yards with Brown bear 55gr FMJBT. It will also shoot 3/4" groups with black hills 68gr heavy HP ammo:)

Apocalypse-Now
June 5, 2011, 04:10 PM
^^has it been pretty reliable for you, thanx. i'll check that model out :)

OhioChief
June 5, 2011, 04:23 PM
Are you going to plink around, or plan to put 500 to 1,000 rounds a week through this gun? If it's primary purpose is to target shoot once in a while, home defense and SHTF, then you have many options, and shouldn't rule out mixing uppers and lowers, or a build. It just too easy to do, and you can get exactly what you want. I've got $650 (minus rear sight) in my Del-Ton build. Took about 2 hours and it was my first time. I tossed in an Accu-wedge, not that I really needed it, but it's as tight as a glove now, and a really good shooter. A2 stock, 20" barrel. And I really learned a lot and had a blast doing it. The upper was already built, so it was like cheating. A year ago I would have paid $1,000 or more for that gun and been happy with it.

kilo729
June 5, 2011, 04:24 PM
You have stag and RRA, but no spikes or BCM up there?

My answer if Spikes or BCM. Best bang for the buck.

Quentin
June 5, 2011, 04:28 PM
You didn't have BCM? And you didn't have a selection for "built it myself". But Daniel Defense will do and got my vote. :D

Apocalypse-Now
June 5, 2011, 04:33 PM
^^is BCM bravo company? i dealt with them once, and will never again.

kwelz
June 5, 2011, 04:33 PM
I don't think you have an understanding of what makes a quality AR.
You need to do some more reading before you consider buying.

Quentin
June 5, 2011, 04:41 PM
^^is BCM bravo company? i dealt with them once, and will never again.
What kind of problem did you have and did they help you work it out? BCM/Bravo Company is about as good as it gets and the price is right as well.

Zerodefect
June 5, 2011, 04:41 PM
yeah, i looked at a DD today, and it was the same thing. the rock rivers i looked at didn't have any space between the upper and lowers. i know DD just started making AR's last year, that's why i'm kinda hesitant on that brand, although i like their rail systems they come with :)

having a larry vicker's super duper tacticool model for marketing purposes doesn't impress me.


i want a quad for iron sights, vertical grip, and a tac light.

Stag and RRA both have a tighter fit. Colt, BCM, DD and all the mil spec rifles will have some play between the upper and lower. It's supposed to be there. You can ad a $1.99 part called the Accuwedge on the inside to tighten things up for that cool solid feel. I've been meaning to get one but they've been out of stock everytime I order form anywhere.

I liked the DD LAV rifle. But the price tag was way higher than something I could piece together myself with a BCM upper.

Check out Gear Sectors hand stops and light mounts. The hand stop is a great alternative to a forward grip if you use the Magpul Dynamics / 3 Gun style grip stance. I've seen people chop AFG's in half to make mini AFG's with good success as well.

Quentin
June 5, 2011, 04:45 PM
LAV's signature Daniel Defense is a great rifle but expensive. You might want to check Pat Rogers' EAG signature BCM. It's cheaper and is midlength instead of carbine gas. I like the EAG better myself and ended up building a Daniel Defense 16" LW midlength much more like the EAG than the LAV.

Apocalypse-Now
June 5, 2011, 04:58 PM
Stag and RRA both have a tighter fit. Colt, BCM, DD and all the mil spec rifles will have some play between the upper and lower. It's supposed to be there.

seems like that would allow sand, etc. in. what's the reasoning behind that? thnx :)


is it to allow another escape route for the impingement gasses?

gathert
June 5, 2011, 04:59 PM
Apocalypse, I posted in the thread exactly right after you made it so I didnt see a poll yet. My room mate is building up an AR off stag arms parts and is going to come out around $800. You can buy a complete from them as well if you want. They have a .22 conversion for their guns as well.

kwelz
June 5, 2011, 05:00 PM
Thisnhas been covered in dozens if not hundreds of threaten. But here is the short version.

Of the ones you mentioned only the DD and to a lesser extent the S&W are worth looking at. The complaints listed come down to "fit and finish" which are only important if this is going to be a safe queen.

If you do some reading you will see that DD has already proven themselves in the AR market. The others, not so much.

kwelz
June 5, 2011, 05:08 PM
These threads come up almost daily. Stag, RRA, etc cut a lot of corners in their production. Using inferior materials. Not doing the proper testing, not even bothering with the right specs in some cases. They focus more on the look of the gun than the actual function.

I am sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. But if you bother to read through some other threads covering this exact same topic you will see that this has been covered time and time again.

ghostman1960
June 5, 2011, 06:30 PM
You left out BCM.

Chris Rhines
June 5, 2011, 06:54 PM
Again, what are you going to use the rifle for, and how much shooting do you plan on doing with it? Until you answer these questions, no one can give you any useful advice.

I'm also wondering why Bravo Company is off your list...

-C

Apocalypse-Now
June 5, 2011, 08:10 PM
^^see my post #17 on BCM. long irrelevant story lol


also, my OP mentions i have no interested in building one, and i don't shoot matches.

that leaves defense, light hunting, and target :)

kwelz
June 5, 2011, 08:55 PM
I apparently isn't irrelevant if you claim i is the reason for not purchasing their weapons. Right now they are considered one of the top companies on the market. I am curious as to your reason for not dealing with them.

ugaarguy
June 5, 2011, 09:37 PM
A-N,

Daniel Defense, Colt, LMT, & BCM are to AR-15s what Baer, Wilson, and Brown are to 1911s.

ETA: Didn't vote either. I could care less about brand popularity - I want build quality. Check out the THR Rifle Forum reading library, and read Bartholomew Roberts thread "34 Ways to Cut Corners on Manufacturing an AR-15" if you want a good start. Then read the rest of the AR-15 stickies in the library.

john5036
June 5, 2011, 09:55 PM
I'd find a gun store or a gun show and go from there and find a vendor, if you don't want to deal with an FFL transfer, or build a custom rifle yourself.

The Stags and RRAs will probably do fine for your needs though, and yeah, they are nearly everywhere it seems.

Tirod
June 5, 2011, 11:02 PM
ANY input or experiences appreciated?

The play between the upper and lower means NOTHING about the quality or accuracy of the gun. If you see space, so be it. If it wobbles, it makes NO difference. My point of reference is 22 years Army Reserves, Infantry/Ordnance/MP. I was issued an H&R, Colts, and FN over the years, and shot Expert with them all. The play observed between lower and upper exists to some degree in all well used M16's and M4's.

Why doesn't it make any difference? The barrel is screwed into the barrel extension, which is held on to the upper by the barrel nut, which is screwed onto the upper receiver nose. The sights are attached to the barrel and upper, an optic is attached to the upper. In any conceivable manner you use the gun, if the upper moves on the lower, it moves both the sights and barrel simultaneously - never independently. That makes the sight picture move with the point of impact No Matter What. The lower can be as loose as moving 1/8" and it won't affect anything except the actual contact point of the hammer face impacting the firing pin. It's NOT a bedded stock wood gun at all. Completely different.

It does follow that a free float should help accuracy - the problem is that moving the point of impact with a tight sling is the real problem. It's the application of a target gun practice to a combat rifle where it has no place. Up until the recent conflict, the Infantry didn't use ANY sling in the field. It has other drawbacks besides being attached to the barrel - where no target gunner would. What has happened is that use in urban conflict - the MP mission - requires handling detained personnel for searches and transportation. Doing that means slinging the weapon, preventing the muzzle from being grounded, or keeping it under control so that it can't be snatched away - presenting a host of problems in CQB because it can be used against the soldier. Hence, the Infantry eliminating it altogether in combat.

Considering the military requirement for accuracy is only 2MOA, about an 8 inch circle at 400 meters, a free float doesn't offer any documented accuracy improvement significant enough to justify the high cost. Adding quad rails is even more expense - to mount equipment most carbine course shooters literally discard after the first morning shoot, because it fails, hangs up in doorways, makes the gun weigh pounds more, and is largely unnecessary. The quad rail is an Army institutional answer to satisfying numerous demands from a wide user base to attach something - and KAC, the supplier, is in print on record telling us it's pretty useless for the average shooter. I.E., bling.

There are usually howls of protest, bluntly, stock handguards and NO sling work just as effectively, for a lot less money. The only reason I have a sling on the dissipator I built is exactly for that - to sling my gun walking into a deer stand or returning to the vehicle after dark. Using one in a tree stand, in a blind, while still hunting, or stalking means having one more thing to hang up in the brush, snag, or get in the way of getting a sight picture. It's a compromise - not to be used in shooting when attached to the barrel.

Since you asked for input and experience, not only a career in the Reserves, Infantry and MP's, Veteran deployed to GTMO, plus a lifetime of hunting with an HK, Rem 700, Win 94, and now my AR that I built in 6.8SPC.

Might want to read up on the sticky threads at arfcom and follow the professional trend away from the ancient M4 - there's a lot better stuff on the horizon.

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