Ruger LC9 vs Kel Tec PF9


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southernconnection
June 5, 2011, 08:12 PM
Sure this has been asked before but I am looking for another firearm to carry in the summer. Concealed weapon in pocket. Which would you buy and why?

Thanks in advance

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Effigy
June 5, 2011, 08:43 PM
I'd go with the Kel Tec for these reasons:
1. Kel Tec creates innovative products and I like supporting companies that do that. Ruger just ripped off Kel Tec's PF9 design to create the LC9.
2. The PF9 is slightly smaller and lighter. (Not a big difference though.)
3. The LC9 has annoying and unnecessary features like a manual safety, magazine disconnect safety, loaded chamber indicator, internal lock, engraved safety warnings on the gun (seriously?). The fit and finish is nicer on the LC9, but all this extra garbage Ruger added just gets on my nerves.

RX-178
June 5, 2011, 08:44 PM
+1 Effigy.

I'd go with the PF-9

Effigy
June 5, 2011, 08:54 PM
While we're on subject, I just want to add a word of caution regarding these small 9mm pistols: know what you're getting into before you buy it. This isn't the type of gun that you'd take out shooting for fun (not often anyway). Your hand will be sore from the recoil after 50 shots or less. I used to think my full size .45 ACP had a lot of recoil, but it's a soft shooter in comparison to the PF9. During my first time out with the PF9 I put 150 rounds through it in one range session, alternating hands every mag or two, and the webs of my hands were achy for about a week.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting one since they are very well suited for concealed carry. Just understand the consequences of shooting a service caliber out of a micro-compact gun.

451 Detonics
June 5, 2011, 08:58 PM
A 22RF conversion is available for the PF-9, makes practice cheap and fun.

marksman13
June 5, 2011, 09:12 PM
I don't find the recoil of my PF9 to be all that unpleasant. Sure, it's substantial, but not painful. I put 250 rounds through mine on the first range trip without any ill effects. I've got about 400 rounds through it now and the only issue I have with the recoil is that follow up shots are more difficult. I'd compare the recoil to a Glock 23, only my pinky hangs off, so I can't grip it as well.

I like my PF9 and chose it over the LC9, LCP, and P-3AT because of price/caliber. The finish on the Kel-Tec is not very rust resistant and I will probably Dura-coat it this Summer. I've had 2 FTFs in 400 rounds, but both were within the first 15 rounds or so, with no problems since.

The fit is a bit sloppy (slide wiggles side-to-side on the frame quite a bit). This is annoying, but for $225.00 out the door for a new pistol, I'll be annoyed.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your choice.

RightCoastBiased
June 5, 2011, 09:16 PM
I shot my LC9 for the first time today. And after 270 rounds, I was not sore. I did not keep switching hands and I had no malfunctions.

The "safety" features are not ideal. But I don't think they detract from an other wise great pistol. I also carry it all day at work while I am constantly bending, crouching, reaching high shelves and all other sorts of moving. I do all this with no discomfort from the LC9 and this is even in a cheap desantis pro-stealth.

Overall I really like this pistol and prefer it over the look of the PF9. Though I've never shot the Kel-Tec.

elano
June 5, 2011, 09:18 PM
I would pick the kel tec pf9 becausebit doesnt have any of the safety crap and is lighter Plus what what everyone above said.

MachIVshooter
June 6, 2011, 02:54 AM
PF9, for the reasons effigy mentioned, plus past bad experiences with Ruger on the CS end. KT, on the other hand, will replace parts, including the whole gun, forever, no questions asked. They've even sent me free replacements for pieces I LOST.

FCastle88
June 6, 2011, 07:59 AM
While we're on subject, I just want to add a word of caution regarding these small 9mm pistols: know what you're getting into before you buy it. This isn't the type of gun that you'd take out shooting for fun (not often anyway). Your hand will be sore from the recoil after 50 shots or less. I used to think my full size .45 ACP had a lot of recoil, but it's a soft shooter in comparison to the PF9. During my first time out with the PF9 I put 150 rounds through it in one range session, alternating hands every mag or two, and the webs of my hands were achy for about a week.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting one since they are very well suited for concealed carry. Just understand the consequences of shooting a service caliber out of a micro-compact gun.
It depends on the gun as well, most people who have shot both the Ruger/Keltec and one of the Kahr models say that the Kahr is much more pleasant to shoot, partly due to the low bore axis. I just took my new CM9 to the range a few days ago and shot 50 rounds of WWB and 30 rounds of 124gr +P Gold Dots. Surprisingly recoil felt pretty much the same as my G26, I didn't experience any soreness or anything.

snooperman
June 6, 2011, 08:47 AM
First with the LCP- P3AT and again with LC9-PF9. Gun tests magazine ripped them good for it and gave the "A" rating to the Keltec PF9. I have the PF9 and like it a great deal--very reliable.

JustinJ
June 6, 2011, 09:31 AM
Nothing new will be said this time around that wasn't said in the last 100 threads over the last two weeks. All you could ever want to know can be found with the search function.

MachIVshooter
June 6, 2011, 10:30 AM
Nothing new will be said this time around that wasn't said in the last 100 threads over the last two weeks. All you could ever want to know can be found with the search function.

And nothing new was said in your post that hasn't been said ten thousand times whenever someone asks a question, usually by newer members like yourself who have formed some kind of superiority complex.

This forum has been around a long time, there are 100,000 members. Nothing has not been discussed. But since it is a discussion board, we need discussion to keep it alive. Also, it can be a hassle to sort through pages and pages of archived threads looking for the answer to a specific question.

If you're annoyed by these threads, don't click on them.

crracer_712
June 6, 2011, 10:50 AM
All saftey 'crap' aside, put them in your handle and fondle them to form your own opinion. If money is a problem, as it is with so many, the Kel-Tec fits the bill. I bought tthe LC9, fit and finish are near flawless on my model (I passed one up before I bought the one I got). It fits MY hand like a glove, I liked the feel of the grip much better than that of the Kel-Tec's squared grip pattern (a personal prefrence). I also liked the trigger gaurd better, more room.

I like the manual safety (another personal prefrence), its unobtrusive and very easy to aquire with my thumb. I am also one of the few that like the LCI (would I want it on a 1911, no). Shooting it, I never know its there because it isn't in the way of the most excellent sights. I don't really get the hang up with the mag disconnect, I'm not going to be shooting it without a mag in it.

That little extra trigger lock safety that is activated with the 'key', I'd have to agree that it is over the top. I just leave it off.

Nearly 500 flawless rounds in my LC9, no a single issue. No random mag drops, no FTE, FTF (either kind).

I formed my own opinion because it was going to be my gun. I watched a few videos and then put them in my hands.

Jbabbler
June 6, 2011, 10:57 AM
And nothing new was said in your post that hasn't been said ten thousand times whenever someone asks a question, usually by newer members like yourself who have formed some kind of superiority complex.

This forum has been around a long time, there are 100,000 members. Nothing has not been discussed. But since it is a discussion board, we need discussion to keep it alive. Also, it can be a hassle to sort through pages and pages of archived threads looking for the answer to a specific question.

If you're annoyed by these threads, don't click on them.

http://www.vistax64.com/images/smilies/roflmao2.gif

bayhawk2
June 6, 2011, 11:28 AM
I can't review the Kel-Tek,but I can the LC9.I carried it
on a slide belt holster around San Antonio for 2 full days.
Resturants,the Riverwalk,hotels,attractions,walked miles
from one place to another in those 2 days.It was hot
so I wore a golf type shirt and shorts.
The gun was never a discomfort.There were parts of the
City that,as in most cities,were probably considered
higher crime areas.There's something about carrying,that
makes you feel a lot more comfortable in those areas.

Effigy
June 6, 2011, 12:24 PM
I don't really get the hang up with the mag disconnect, I'm not going to be shooting it without a mag in it.

IMO it's just another point of possible failure. It's easier to hit the mag release by accident on these small guns. With a normal gun, that would mean you have 1 shot before you need to tap-rack-bang to get it working again. With the mag disconnect, you have zero shots even with a loaded chamber. If you're used to doing tap-rack-bang on a failure, you'll lose a perfectly good round from the already somewhat low capacity of the gun. If there were a good reason for mag disconnect safeties to exist I might not be as concerned about it, but there really isn't a valid reason I can think of.

I agree with you on the other things though. You can ignore most of the extraneous "features" on the Ruger and it should run about the same as a Kel Tec. I still prefer not to have them though.

JustinJ
June 6, 2011, 12:37 PM
"And nothing new was said in your post that hasn't been said ten thousand times whenever someone asks a question,"

Yes, but my post will actually lead him to the most information.

"This forum has been around a long time, there are 100,000 members. Nothing has not been discussed. But since it is a discussion board, we need discussion to keep it alive. Also, it can be a hassle to sort through pages and pages of archived threads looking for the answer to a specific question."

Given that most people knowledgeable on this topic have commented recently and are not gona want to repeat themselves over and over again he will learn more on this specific issue by searching. Revisiting old topics when new data is available or fresh perspectives are available is great but given how many recent threads are directly about this issue that isn't going to happen here. For this topic there is no hassle given the number of threads with PF9 and/or LC9 in the title.

crracer_712
June 6, 2011, 12:37 PM
From what I have seen, the Kel-Tec would save about a hundred bucks. That's just going by gun shows in my area. I say 'about a hundred bucks', my LC9 was 407 after tax, bought a couple months ago. Might be a little cheaper now. Most of the Kel-Tec, were priced under 300

Dimis
June 6, 2011, 12:57 PM
i prefer the keltec just for the fact that it doesnt have the magazine safety
i never like owning a gun that cant be fired without the magazine (and yes i understand the advantages/disadvantages of that style firearm)

justinj

the reason you were barked at was that is a common (and to some ignorant) responce to alot of questions on this forum
it has undertones of "what your too lazy to look on your own" or "pffft if you dont know i aint helpin ya" both attitudes that are not tolerated here

if i asked a question like "what 1911 is best" there are millions of threads on here to search through
a good portion of them almost a decade old with antiquated information (since firearms are just like computers and last years model is now obsolete or worse discontinued)
so a new thread with new answers is almost mandated in these situations
if the mods/admins find it needed they will combine threads delete threads move threads or whatever is necessary so in the end no one needs to be told to use the search feature we all know its there and we all start threads for whatever reason we deem worthy...
basically its just plain rude

JustinJ
June 6, 2011, 02:02 PM
"if i asked a question like "what 1911 is best" there are millions of threads on here to search through a good portion of them almost a decade old with antiquated information"

If a thread about what 1911 is best was active just a few days before your post then i would say the same thing to you. Nothing in my thread was insulting or implied laziness regardless of what you want to read into it. The search function is there for a reason and i believe any board is better served by not rehashing the same topic every other day.

I'm done discussing this though as i believe derailing threads is a lot worse than recomending to people ways to better gain information.

45Fan
June 6, 2011, 04:09 PM
Of the two, I would go for the PF-9 as well, My wife carries one, and has had Zero issues with it. The cosmetics can be overcome by a quick gunkote job, or order it with hard chrome or parkerized finish.

If you wait another few months, Smith and Wesson might rip off Ruger, and come out with a bodyguard 9, and you could have three choices to consider.

crracer_712
June 6, 2011, 04:18 PM
If you wait another few months, Smith and Wesson might rip off Ruger, and come out with a bodyguard 9, and you could have three choices to consider.

I hope they do a bit better job with it than they did with the 380. I still want the 380, and from what I am reading, maybe they are getting it right now.

Dr_B
June 6, 2011, 06:33 PM
I carry the LC9 and it shoots reliably. I like recoil so that part is cool with me. What annoy me constantly are all the safeties. I would rather have seen Ruger make the LC9 just a larger version of the LCP. That said, I would like to try a Kel Tec PF9 side by side with the LC9. If I could find one.

bigmike45
June 6, 2011, 06:40 PM
I have been carrying the PF9 for several years now and though, as said above, its not a "fun to shoot at the range gun" it does shoot to point of aim every time and reliably. I have yet to see the LC9 and though I really love my ruger revolvers, I have never really like their semi-autos. I will stick with what works for me. Good luck to all of you on your choices as well.

Just One Shot
June 6, 2011, 06:58 PM
Neither.

The Keltec fit and finish is awful and it isn't shooter friendly. I like to be able to put a couple hundred rounds through my carry gun to stay in practice without having tingling feelings in my hand when I'm done.

While I've never shot the Ruger I did check one out at the gun store Saturday and the trigger is horrible. I can't understand why a gun that has a manual safety on it would need such a looooong trigger pull.

I would check out the Kahr CM9. If it's anything like my PM9 was it will be a great shooter!

But that's just my .02 and worth everything you paid for it.
:)

il_10
June 6, 2011, 10:31 PM
I bought the PF9 last week, based on my desire for a pocketable 9mm, and my dislike of both the added "features" on the LC9 and my dislike of Ruger's copying of kel-tec's design.

There are plenty of Rugers that I would buy, but the lcp and lc9 are not on that list.

I'm really liking the gun. I've got a beretta jetfire for super-ultra-deep concealment, but the PF9 doesn't weigh much more, and is almost as easy to conceal while offering a significant increase in firepower by all standards. I found the recoil to be harsh, but acceptable, and I found accuracy to be outstanding. The trigger is better than the p11 or LC9; it's long, but quite smooth. Long story short, it's a keeper.

PX15
June 7, 2011, 10:51 AM
JMOfartO:

There are very few REAL "new" designs on the market.. Perhaps the "RHINO"? But as for Ruger copying Keltec (which they did), or NAA copying Seecamp, (which they did), or a bazillion manufactures copying Colts 1911, or any of the other gun makers doing the same thing I simply don't care...

Not sure I like that guy in the cave in Turkey handmaking his copy of the original wonderful Browning HP, but hey, everyone's gotta make a buck, right?

Vote with your money, and if it offends you that manufacturer "A" copied a product of manufacturer "B" , then just don't buy anything from manufacturer "A"..

Simple as that.

I bought the LCP over the P3AT because I like Rugers.. I've owned a Ruger product of some description for over 4 decades... Never had a bad one. (KOW)..

I've owned two KelTecs. A P11, and a P32. Both were very, very good. But KelTec does not, in my opinion, finish off their guns as well as Ruger does their COPIES of those guns.

KelTec offers a lifetime warranty with no questions asked (a customer service I would suggest is 2nd only to,of all manufacturers, HiPoint)...

KelTec does have a great Customer Service reputation...

That's great, but I've never NEEDED customer support for any of my Rugers, I don't expect to now, and if I do I honestly believe RUGER CS will take care of my problem.

I bought the LC9 because EVERYONE I know who has them (8-10 people) have NEVER had a problem with any of them. Between my wife and myself we have three now. Never a burp from any of them..

I bought the LC9 for the same reason. Everyone I knew who owned one, and the vast majority of owners who post comments on the online gun forums who owned one loved 'em.. Reliability was a given.

For me RELIABILITY IS JOB 1... Period.

I'm not "anti-KelTec".. I just prefer the Ruger copies, thank you very much.

Heck there are still folks out there who hate S&W because the PREVIOUS owners caved to Clinton way back when.. I have 6 3rd Gen Smiths that are all excellent, and again RELIABILITY is a given with all of them.

So, I don't take offense if a person prefers a gun choice different from that I might make.. I'm glad we have choices, and I'd rather be discussing personal likes and dislikes in gun manufacturers with another 2nd Amendment lover here than some liberal who wants eliminate ALL of our choices in firearms.

Just conversin', not confrontin', and no offense to nobody nohow and no I would not recognize a double (or triple) negative if you hit me on the head with one..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_2502.jpg

psyshack
June 7, 2011, 08:32 PM
I am PF-9 owner and have shot both side by side. My PF-9's fit and finish is pretty darn bad. And thats the only thing wrong with it. It's a shooter and them some.

For me the LC9 was to busy. I've put close to 500 rounds through one. Fit and finish is great. But all the extras suck. And the trigger is worse IMHO than a P-11.

Any of the small 9mm's are going to have a snappy recoil. And thats just it,,, snappy. There not brutal,, just snappy.

Effigy
June 7, 2011, 08:39 PM
Yeah, in my experience the one down side to the Kel Tec is the horrible finish. I had to shave a bunch of bunch of flashing off the frame and trigger. :p I repainted the contrast sights as well. I don't mind that on a cheap gun though. In a way it has a certain charm because it feels more like a project than a fully finished gun, although it runs fine without any modifications.

CZ223
June 8, 2011, 06:06 AM
I have not shot either. That said, I would, and probably will, buy the LC9. The trigger on the Kel-tec is horrible and the overall quality of the gun has a lot to be desired. I know they make a reliable gun so if reliability were the only consideration I wouldn't hesitate to own one, but it is not. The Ruger looks and feels better. The trigger is noticeably better. My two LCPs are great little guns and this looks like a real winner.

451 Detonics
June 8, 2011, 09:59 AM
Well...the Ruger is larger, heavier, and more expensive than the Kel-Tec. It has unnecessary safeties and an unneeded loaded chamber indicator that hangs up in some holsters, especially those made the old fashioned way using leather. The molded grip on the Kel-Tec is very secure even in sweaty hands. The finish of the Kel-Tec is not a high polish blue but it is a no glare (preferable in a SD gun) very durable finish. And a couple minutes removing some minor flashing with an emery board really isn't that tough.

I have handled several LC9's and the trigger in them doesn't come close to the extremely smooth trigger in my PF-9. Everyone who has shot it has commented the trigger while long was very smooth and light. It feels like a well tuned K-Frame S&W albeit a touch longer. Of course my PF-9 has probably 3000 rounds of 9mm and another 1000 rounds of 22 through it along with a bunch of dry fire with a snap cap.

The availability of a 22 conversion is another plus for the PF-9. 1000 rounds of practice 9mm would about pay for the conversion and the gun is really fun with the 22 conversion in place. Also makes for a good training piece for new shooters.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/handguns/pf224.jpg

I am not anti Ruger...I own several but I really feel quality control has gone way down since Bill Sr. passed away. Today it seems like the factory just wants to rush things into production and let the customers handle the QC and then do recalls to fix the problems the customers find.

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