Too much lube on AR 15?


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Doxiedad
June 6, 2011, 05:10 AM
Last time I cleaned my M&P 15 i had the BCG well lubed, actually was kinda dripping. Thought I remembered reading somewhere a wet AR is a happy AR.

Took it to the range and went through 100 rounds pretty quickly (bad day, stress relief)

Started to get some light white smoke coming from between the bolt and the front handguard. Maybe too much Slip200 EWL on the BCG?

Also when I was done I noticed while the barrel was cooling down that it was turning a little grayish. Is that normal? This is 2nd time I've been able to shoot rifle, first time was 20 rounds.

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Sam Cade
June 6, 2011, 05:20 AM
No worries. Keep shooting.

ugaarguy
June 6, 2011, 05:22 AM
Slip isn't going to burn off the bcg with that few rounds. Sounds like you got the barrel warm enough to burn off the factory grease / preservative. They put it on there because they don't know how long it will sit on dealer shelves before being sold.

FWIW, I ran 90 rounds through my new AR today, and had the same smoke pouring through the handguard vents. I was running my bcg wet with Breakfree CLP, and that definitely didn't burn off.

ETA: the grayish color you're seeing is the hard phosphate finish - a quick wipe down with an oiled rag will bring the black color back out.

Doxiedad
June 6, 2011, 05:25 AM
Slip isn't going to burn off the bcg with that few rounds. Sounds like you got the barrel warm enough to burn off the factory grease / preservative. They put it on there because they don't know how long it will sit on dealer shelves before being sold.

FWIW, I ran 90 rounds through my new AR today, and had the same smoke pouring through the handguard vents. I was running my bcg wet with Breakfree CLP, and that definitely didn't burn off.

DOH I didn't even think of that, now that you mention it, mine was pouring through all the handguard vents. Damnit too late in the shift for me to be posting stuff online LOL

Thanks.

12131
June 6, 2011, 05:27 AM
Yup, shoot more and lube more. Gun will be fine.

bkjeffrey
June 6, 2011, 05:31 AM
Ive seen many AR barrels turn grayish from rapid firing. Nothing to worry about, just put a light coat of oil on it afterwords to keep it from rusting as you most likely burned all the old off.

Personally, I dont believe you can over lube an AR, mine are always dripping when reassembling, but Im sure someone who has seriously overthought the subject will chime in saying otherwise. In my experience any excess oil will burn off or fling off during operation.

As far as smoke....just burning oil again actually was kinda dripping

Ive run countless different AR15s and M16 in conditions from freezing cold weather to 115 degree Iraq heat, all probably had too much lube on them and all ran fine.

On a side note, myself and just about every other person who has spent some time in the desert with a gun has learned that excessive lube in a sandy enviroment can have adverse effects on operation. Food for thought.

Lube to your liking and to heck with the rest, you aint gonna hurt that gun with a little oil.

P.S. I just thought of something, you may want to swab out your chamber with a dry mop, excessive oil in a chamber has been THOUGHT to cause higher than normal chamber pressures because the oil film reduces the internal diameter of the chamber by a bazillionth of a millimeter, never seen any proof of it though. Kinda like how carbon buildup on a gas engine's piston can slightly raise the engines compression ratio...........more food for thought.

Doxiedad
June 6, 2011, 05:34 AM
Yeah I think it was just the factory grease, first time barrel has gotten hot.

It's what 04:00 now and i've been at work since 19:00 yesterday, should have thought more before posting up LOL

Thanks for the input though.

LHRGunslinger
June 6, 2011, 06:11 AM
The only problem with "over lubing" an AR is getting your storage area covered in the stuff.

12Bravo20
June 6, 2011, 09:05 AM
I only had a problem one time with an old M16A1 during winter when using too much CLP. Went to the qualification range during the day and then war games that night. I soaked the bolt with CLP and it did actually freeze shut. Very dusty environments call for a light coat of CLP only. I've never had any problems with any M16A2 or civilian AR15s freezing up in extreme cold weather.

Jeremy2171
June 6, 2011, 09:43 AM
I use 2-3 drops of CLP and thats IT! If your AR won't run DRY there is something wrong with it.....

M-Cameron
June 6, 2011, 10:21 AM
a general rule of thumb.........with just about every mechanical machine( with the exception of precision equipment)......very rarely does an actual significant problem result from over-lubrication.


when in doubt....lubricate.

Zerodefect
June 6, 2011, 01:53 PM
I like to hose the outside of my barrel and gasblock down just so it DEOS start smoking when the gun gets hot.

Maybe I can mix some Marvel Mystery oil in and get a fire started for extra points. Running 3 gun with a rifle thats on fire would be pretty epic. :eek:

I use thicker, allmost grease like, oil. It's OK to overlube as long as:
-you don't plug up the barrel with goo
-you open the gun up every once in a while to see if there is any dust or kitten buildup
-it deosn't drip down and fill up your buffer tube
-your powder stays dry

And even if the above did happen. It most likely wouldn't be a big deal anyways.

Jeremy2171
June 6, 2011, 02:07 PM
I like to hose the outside of my barrel and gasblock down just so it DEOS start smoking when the gun gets hot.

Maybe I can mix some Marvel Mystery oil in and get a fire started for extra points. Running 3 gun with a rifle thats on fire would be pretty epic. :eek:

I use thicker, allmost grease like, oil. It's OK to overlube as long as:
-you don't plug up the barrel with goo
-you open the gun up every once in a while to see if there is any dust or kitten buildup
-it deosn't drip down and fill up your buffer tube
-your powder stays dry

And even if the above did happen. It most likely wouldn't be a big deal anyways.
Don't forget to put so much lube that your trigger finger is covered......

Shawn Dodson
June 6, 2011, 02:11 PM
If your AR won't run DRY there is something wrong with it.....

It is a machine that needs lubrication to operate properly. Running it dry allows dry, gritty material (carbon, soot, dirt, etc.) to build up and impair its operation. Running it wet allows this same dry, gritty material to be suspended in the lube. The lube may get dirty or sludge-like but it still lubricates.

Bartholomew Roberts
June 6, 2011, 02:30 PM
I use 2-3 drops of CLP and thats IT! If your AR won't run DRY there is something wrong with it.....

A quality AR will run dry - I think Michael Pannone proved that when he stripped a Bravo Company M4 of all lubrication and ran it for 2,000+ rounds with no cleaning.

However, a wet AR runs better. Even the Bravo Company M4 eventually choked after the combination of dirt and fouling built up. However, there are plenty of examples of ARs that have rarely or never been cleaned in tens of thousands of rounds that function well as long as they are lubed - and you can wipe off carbon fouling with a t-shirt as opposed to getting rock-hard accretions of carbon build up baked on. Not to mention that lubrication allows dust, dirt and debris to migrate away from critical functioning areas.

Heck, I use 2-3 drops of CLP just on the bolt by itself.

Nugilum
June 6, 2011, 02:42 PM
You can over lube an AR? :confused:

Jeremy2171
June 6, 2011, 02:44 PM
Wet dry whatever works for you... My M4 in Iraq was ran dry...other than the initial cleaning where I wiped all excess CLP from it and used the 2-3 drops on the bolt/cam pin area there was no additional lube applied. It did not attract dust and did not accumulate carbon buildup. I put well over 10,000 rounds through it with only one stoppage due to a bad mag.

Nothing like watching one guy run down the line with a squirt bottle of CLP "liberally" spraying CLP into the uppers of M16s...then watching later as they enjoyed cleaning the muddy stinky goop from every crevice with Q-tips and trying to keep dirt out of it as the wind blew. Me I just wiped the upper out with a rag, hit the extension with a chamber brush then dusted the whole thing off with the air hose. Applied 2-3 drops of CLP and put her back in the rack....

JustinJ
June 6, 2011, 03:17 PM
"I use 2-3 drops of CLP and thats IT! If your AR won't run DRY there is something wrong with it..... "

For how many rounds is it supposed to be able to run dry?

I personally lube all my guns heavy for the range as lube not only improves reliability but also reduces wear and tear. Excessive lube does attract more crud but at the range it aint a big deal. For normal use is a different story.

bigedp51
June 6, 2011, 03:19 PM
A Remington tech rep once told me to put as much oil on my guns as I wanted to. He then said after cleaning and oiling to use a dry rag and wipe as much oil from the rifle as possibly and you still would have more lube than needed.

The M16/A4 dumps its cyclic gases back into the receiver and any oil will turn into a dirty abrasive paste.

If any oil gets in the chamber or on your ammo you will double your bolt thrust and can damage your rifle.


http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/dontlube.jpg

Bolt thrust damaged this bolt, your not running a lathe or milling machine and you do "NOT" need to 'SOAK" or "BATH" any firearm in oil.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/M16-A4bolt.jpg

Shawn Dodson
June 6, 2011, 03:25 PM
Good information and advice: "Keep Your Carbine Running" - http://www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf

LHRGunslinger
June 6, 2011, 03:50 PM
Ya know what? Somethin just hit me. If you're really worried about lubing loose your upper & BCG & pick up a FailZero upper & BCG. No lube. No worries.

JustinJ
June 6, 2011, 05:24 PM
"The M16/A4 dumps its cyclic gases back into the receiver and any oil will turn into a dirty abrasive paste."

I assume any "excess" oil is meant. Every AR manual i've ever read advised lubing the internals.

I would never lube to the point of it dripping out or lube the ammo but i do apply more readily for the range.

In a magazine review i read of the Sig516, dont remember which one, the author felt compelled to mention that the bucket of ammo used in the torture test by Sig was full of lube as to imply it was done to improve reliability for the type of abuse they were exposing the gun to. It was one of those tests where they dunk it in mud, water, sand, gravy, whatever, and shoot 10 million rounds without cleaning or lubing.

Zerodefect
June 6, 2011, 06:50 PM
Ya know what? Somethin just hit me. If you're really worried about lubing loose your upper & BCG & pick up a FailZero upper & BCG. No lube. No worries.

Meh, still needs lube.

Some Fail Zero and some Chrome have flaked off of some bolts. A flake of that hard stuff in just the right spot will Jam an AR up really good.

I've only witnessed it twice. Both were chrome bolts. And from what I've heard, the newest batch of Fail Zero stuff is supposed to be better.

I'd rather have a plain old BCM bolt carrier group. Not even the Ion bond model.

In some conditions it deos make sense to rub oil on the carrier and rub it off so that it's slick but not wet. Same senerio as posted above in Iraq.

But I'd still err towards wet.

benEzra
June 6, 2011, 07:20 PM
A Remington tech rep once told me to put as much oil on my guns as I wanted to. He then said after cleaning and oiling to use a dry rag and wipe as much oil from the rifle as possibly and you still would have more lube than needed.
That might be true of a typical Remchester that isn't shot to the point of getting it really hot and really dirty between cleanings. That is not necessarily true of AR's that are run hard or that go a long time between cleanings.

The M16/A4 dumps its cyclic gases back into the receiver
The AR/M16/M4 vents the gas used to operate the action to the atmosphere after it is used, just like an AK. It just vents to the atmosphere from a different spot, i.e. the gas vent holes in the side of the bolt carrier group. That gas is not dumped into the action.

All semiautos, not just DI ones, dump some gas and powder residue into the action via the opening chamber and ejecting case, and the AR contributes a tiny bit extra via the opening gas tube/gas key interface. The volume of gas involved is negligible compared to the gas and residue coming from the opening chamber, and AFAIK isn't really significant unless you are running a sound suppressor.

any oil will turn into a dirty abrasive paste.
Carbon residue suspended in oil is not particularly abrasive, and is certainly not harder on moving parts than baked-on dry carbon concretions are. In my experience, a well oiled rifle stays cleaner, at least in terms of powder residue, as long as you are using a lubricant that readily dissolves powder residue (and good ones will). I don't have experience in the middle of sandstorms, but Army tests have seemed to show that well-lubricated M4's have a longer MRBF than lightly oiled ones under extreme-sandy conditions.

Sky
June 6, 2011, 07:23 PM
I do not run any of my ARs wet. They are cleaned with Breakfree CLP and put up. Sometimes it is a few months before I use a particular AR. By then the Breakfree usually (not always) has either evaporated or left a film that has to be felt rather than seen. In truth I am not a paper puncher that often and mostly plink or hunt so a typical day with an AR is less than 100 rounds for me. So far I have not had a problem with stoppage or rust on any of my rifles. During break down if there are any places where the park is gone or turning shiny I might lube that spot a tad bit more. Gun range I go to rents guns. Owner never cleans! Guns get a few squirts of Breakfree CLP (if they are lucky) and just go back out for shooting; some are shot in excess of a 1000 rounds a week every week. Owner of the range does not make them drip either because someone will mess up the clothes with the blown off lube (women hate that). Bottom line is whatever works for you and you weapon.

P.S. Ben I read the same study/report you did. Again what works for the individual in his/her situation. We have people here on THR that use WD-40 and they say it works for them!!........whatever works.

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