.300 Win Ultra Mag question


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mwurman
June 6, 2011, 11:42 AM
Just bought a Savage Arms Model 116. takes a .300 Win Ultra Mag. When i bought it, the ammo they sold me was .300 Win Mag. So of course being all excited to shoot the new gun, took it to the range and took care of ten rounds. They loaded in just fine, chambered, fired, and the case ejected just like a text book case. Afterwards, i was looking at the casings versus an unfired round, and they had expanded ever so slightly. Hence why i am posting on here. Is it ok to continue firing these rounds in this gun? Thanks!

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rcmodel
June 6, 2011, 11:52 AM
NO!
Not until you find out what caliber it is anyway.

The first thing you need to do is read the caliber marking on the barrel.

It can't be a Win .300 Ultra Mag, because there is no such caliber.

There is:
A .300 Win Mag.
A .300 H&H Mag
A .300 Rem Short Action Ulta Mag, or .300 SAUM.
A 300 Win Short Mag, or .300 WSM.
And a .300 Rem Ultra Mag.

But there is no such thing as a .300 Win Ultra Mag.

I beleive it is very likely your rifle is in fact a .300 Win Mag, as that is the only .30 cal magnum Savage chambers them in currently.

The differance in fired case appearance is due to normal case expansion when the case blows out to fit the chamber.

rc

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 11:54 AM
yeah i was about to post the correction...is .300 Rem Ultra Mag (RUM)

http://gallery.me.com/mark.urman/100305/IMG_3827/web.jpg?ver=13073730010001

rcmodel
June 6, 2011, 12:06 PM
Well, that's what you need to shoot in it then.

Do not fire any more of the .300 Win Mag in it!

The .300 RUM does not have a headspace belt on the case, and the .300 Win belted case is smaller then the rear of the chamber in your rifle. That will allow it to chamber, but headspace would not be controlled at all except by the extractor.

You are lucky you didn't blow yourself up already.

rc

MtnCreek
June 6, 2011, 12:12 PM
Please post some pics of the fired cases beside loaded cartrigdes. I would like to see them.
Thanks!

Flatbush Harry
June 6, 2011, 12:14 PM
If you only buy the ammo whose caliber, printed on the box and on the case head, matches the name on the barrel, you won't blow things up or harm your equipment. This is an IQ test.

:eek:


FH

MtnCreek
June 6, 2011, 12:25 PM
If you only buy the ammo whose caliber, printed on the box and on the case head, matches the name on the barrel, you won't blow things up or harm your equipment.
Mr. Harry, I think the above is a good, useful statement. The rest of your post was not useful.

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 12:28 PM
I know now not to trust the guy who sold me the ammo...I'll post pics when I get home from the day. Just interesting how it safely shot, and accurately, 10 rounds of win mag. I'm definitely returning the unused box and getting the correct ammo.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Steve H
June 6, 2011, 12:33 PM
How close is the scope to the barrel??? In the pic posted it looks pretty close.

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 12:38 PM
It's just the angle of the photo I think...there's plenty of clearance...when I put the caps on the ends there's still space. Not the best pic but here's with the caps on...

143563




Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 12:50 PM
http://gallery.me.com/mark.urman/100305/IMG_3790/web.jpg?ver=13073729810001

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 02:59 PM
Here's some pics...as you can see the casing expanded out width wise to the size of the chamber as well as at the neck area, and base.

http://gallery.me.com/mark.urman/100305/IMG_3838/web.jpg?ver=13073864630001
http://gallery.me.com/mark.urman/100305/IMG_3837.jpg?derivative=medium&source=web.jpg&type=medium&ver=13073863610001
http://gallery.me.com/mark.urman/100305/IMG_3836/web.jpg?ver=13073863310001
http://gallery.me.com/mark.urman/100305/IMG_3835/web.jpg?ver=13073862850001

Flatbush Harry
June 6, 2011, 03:03 PM
:eek:

That's not minor expansion.

FH

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 03:12 PM
:eek:

That's not minor expansion.

FH
well in the light of the shell not exploding, i'll go with minor ha

OKcarburetor
June 6, 2011, 03:23 PM
:eek: wow... just wow

NoobCannon
June 6, 2011, 03:47 PM
yeah...Don't do that....that can't be good for your health if you keep doing that.

Don't hesitate to slap the guy that sold you that ammo. A competent gun store employee should at LEAST have enough snap to him to read what's stamped on the barrel, while a good salesman period should know about what he's selling.

MtnCreek
June 6, 2011, 04:23 PM
That is freakin beautiful !!!
Thanks for the photos!

Demos
June 6, 2011, 04:35 PM
I never would have guessed you could fire form 300 winmag into 300 RUM with only ever so slight expansion. Can you take a picture of the fired cases next to unfired 300 RUM when you pick some up?

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 07:57 PM
sure thing! damn stuff is expensive...but i seem to have found some here pretty cheap...

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/67931-5.html#Reviews

and here

http://www.pistolandpawn.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=75784

Anyone know of awesome places to get ammo at a good price? Thanks!

Dimis
June 6, 2011, 08:10 PM
just curious but did you buy this rifle/ammo from a large chain store or a small gun store?

I can see (and have had) this type of thing happening at say walmart or gander mountain where they need nothing more than an application to work there

if it was a small time gun store I certainly would do my own homework on anything I buy from them before ever even thinking of purchasing that way you negate the miss information they can obviously provide

H&Hhunter
June 6, 2011, 08:12 PM
mwurman,

Your rifle is a .300 RUM (Remington Ultra Mag) the .300 RUM is based on a .404 Jeffery case that's been necked down and reshouldered.

You fired a .300 Win Mag through it. The 300 WM is a smaller diameter case and a shorter case by almost 1/3rd of an inch.

Notice how the case has expanded in diameter just forward of the belt. That expansion reveals the actual diameter of the chamber vs the much smaller diameter of the case you fired in it. The original diameter of the .300 WM case is the diameter at the case head (the back of the case).

Ditto on the shoulder being blown out to match the RUM dimensions. I honestly don't know how that action was able to seal up and not allow the explosive release of hot gases into your face.

YOU ARE LUCKY to have not lost an eye at the very least.

You need to rush back to that gun store and speak to a manger immediately. He should repair and or replace your rifle. And fire the dim wit who sold you that ammo. I wouldn't fire that rifle until it's been looked at.

It's hard to believe that thing was even able to fire. Once again, you've got a guardian angel looking over you my friend don't tempt fate twice.

ojibweindian
June 6, 2011, 08:29 PM
mwurman

I wholeheartedly agree with H&Hhunter. I'd also like to say that God must really like you, because you're still breathing. :D

dprice3844444
June 6, 2011, 08:35 PM
how did it group?

Frozen North
June 6, 2011, 08:47 PM
What brand is the ammo that you "fire formed"? That is some really good brass not to split!

db_tanker
June 6, 2011, 08:59 PM
Frozen North just voiced what I was about to ask...

THAT is some serious stout brass. :)


Brother, you are lucky...no kaboom and hopefully no rifle damage...I would get a smith to at least take a look at it.

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 09:06 PM
What brand is the ammo that you "fire formed"? That is some really good brass not to split!
It grouped really well...was shooting at roughly 200 yards and got all 10 within about 8 inches diameter. And the ammo was Federal Premium Vital-Shok, 300 Win Mag, 180 Grain Nosler Partition

Frozen North
June 6, 2011, 09:14 PM
Your rifle should be able to produce much tighter groups than that with the proper ammo. 8'' is mind blowing considering the situation though!!!

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 09:20 PM
Your rifle should be able to produce much tighter groups than that with the proper ammo. 8'' is mind blowing considering the situation though!!!
yeah i was standing and honestly wasnt being all that patient while shooting so it was more my fault i think. what do you all think about this managed recoil ammunition i found?

http://www.pistolandpawn.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=75881

is there any drawbacks with it?

ojibweindian
June 6, 2011, 09:30 PM
What part of 'Bama are you from? And, did Larry's sell you the wrong ammo?

Walkalong
June 6, 2011, 09:51 PM
Wow. The look of the first case ejected should have been scary enough to stop you from firing another one. You were definitely lucky. I agree with H&H Hunter, take the rifle back and get it checked out.

kingpin008
June 6, 2011, 09:57 PM
what do you all think about this managed recoil ammunition i found?

http://www.pistolandpawn.com/store/i...ducts_id=75881

is there any drawbacks with it?

Worry less about finding new ammo and more about getting your gun inspected for damage. You are lucky to have gotten away unscathed the first time - don't tempt fate by ignoring the problem.

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 10:04 PM
yeah already have it scheduled to go in tomorrow...i got it from a little mom and pop place...i think the guy who sold me the stuff was a newbie at the store..and seeing as im a newbie at least to this gun, i could have used an experienced guy to help me out...will let you know if they find something!

esheato
June 6, 2011, 10:22 PM
Honestly, if I were you, I would take it to a different shop.

They've already proven they're incompetent. I wouldn't give them a second chance. But it's your eyes and hands, so do as you wish...

OKcarburetor
June 6, 2011, 10:27 PM
Honestly, if I were you, I would take it to a different shop.

They've already proven they're incompetent. I wouldn't give them a second chance. But it's your eyes and hands, so do as you wish...
Everyone makes mistakes(even if this is a massive one), it's how they handle them that really matters. If it's a good shop they'll make it right.

mwurman
June 6, 2011, 10:27 PM
Honestly, if I were you, I would take it to a different shop.

They've already proven they're incompetent. I wouldn't give them a second chance. But it's your eyes and hands, so do as you wish...
oh i know...meant to clarify that im taking it to a different place thats actually closer to where i live anyways. I will be addressing the ammo issue with the original shop, though, just to make the owner aware of what happened

Gtscotty
June 6, 2011, 10:52 PM
If you ever have fired rounds that look totally and completely different from the unfired version.... in any firearm....you need to stop shooting, with a quickness. :eek:

i was looking at the casings versus an unfired round, and they had expanded ever so slightly.

On second thought, is this a joke or troll or something? Slight expansion is measured with calipers, there is nothing remotely slight about the round in your pictures.

Durty
June 6, 2011, 11:36 PM
Are you planning on taking out an elk at 500 yards with that rum? When you return the gun, get a different caliber too. Stupid ultra mags... these manufacturers now get under my skin. They make senseless rifle/caliber setups so senseless salesmen can sell inexperienced hunters something they don't need and something that will certainly not make them more disciplined shooters. "This here setup will take out anything on this continent. If you want to be able to kill a deer from a quarter mile away, this is your rifle."

mwurman
June 7, 2011, 08:06 AM
Are you planning on taking out an elk at 500 yards with that rum? When you return the gun, get a different caliber too. Stupid ultra mags... these manufacturers now get under my skin. They make senseless rifle/caliber setups so senseless salesmen can sell inexperienced hunters something they don't need and something that will certainly not make them more disciplined shooters. "This here setup will take out anything on this continent. If you want to be able to kill a deer from a quarter mile away, this is your rifle."
hahaha thats pretty much exactly what they said..."you can do anything with this rifle". Well yeah probably true but whats wrong with a more mainstream munition like a 300 weatherby, win mag, a 308...ya know? plus those are wayyyy cheaper.

natman
June 7, 2011, 12:10 PM
Question for the OP: Did they sell you the 300 Win Mag ammo at the same time they sold you the rifle or did you buy the ammo afterward?

mwurman
June 7, 2011, 01:03 PM
Question for the OP: Did they sell you the 300 Win Mag ammo at the same time they sold you the rifle or did you buy the ammo afterward?
They sold it to me when i bought the gun...not sure if it was a stupid mistake or what..they had quite a few people in there that they were helping, so could have gotten me confused. Im not exactly sure how that happened...

Maverick223
June 7, 2011, 02:41 PM
Doubt it, as none of the .300 magnums are really popular (the .300WM is probably in the top ten...none of the others are even close) so I seriously doubt that there was someone else buying similar ammunition concurrently. If possible I would follow Durty's advice and return the rifle (and ammunition) for something a bit lighter on the wallet and the shoulder. There is little need for a magnum of any kind in NA (exceptions being large/dangerous game like Kodiak/Polar bear and long range shooting/hunting. I strongly believe that you'll be far better served by a standard .30-06Spd....which will not only take any game animal in the lower 48 with relative ease, it is capable of any quarry in NA with proper ammunition (not just the right chambering...but premium cartridges ;)), do so at a pretty fair range (probably a mite bit further than the average Joe aught to be hunting), and did I mention that ammo is strewn everywhere...and cheap!

Now if you can't trade it for a more "sane" chambering (which may very well be the case), there is still another course of action that will help you out...taking up a new hobby...handloading. This will allow you to load to a lesser recoil level, and will save you quite a bit of money in the long run no matter what level you load to. If you go this route just make dang sure to load it properly using a good reloading handbook (I strongly recommend the easy to follow, insightful Lyman manual for beginners).

:)

rcmodel
June 7, 2011, 02:46 PM
I agree 100% you would have been better off, and a better shot on down the road, had you bought the rifle in .308 Win or 30-06.

That is all the recoil most shooters can handle without developing an accuracy destroying severe flinch.

Not to mention the huge difference in ammo availability and price.

Another factor not mentioned so far is barrel life.
That .300 RUM will burn out a barrel in a relatively low number of rounds compared to a .308 or 30-06.

rc

Maverick223
June 7, 2011, 03:04 PM
Another factor not mentioned so far is barrel life.
That .300 RUM will burn out a barrel in a relatively low number of rounds compared to a .308 or 30-06.Absolutely! Though I consider it a fairly minor concern when compared to recoil and the potential to develop a bad flinch (that is not only hard to overcome, but also completely unnecessary).

In fact, and even milder cartridge, like the 7mm-08Rem., would probably be an even better choice if the hunter isn't seeking quarry larger (at least with any frequency) than deer. It will afford less recoil, which generally equates to more practice, and a better marksman. In contrast with TV shows and Dirty Harry, better marksmanship ALWAYS trumps bigger guns.

:)

MtnCreek
June 7, 2011, 03:27 PM
Doesn't Remington make 300 RUM factory ammo loaded down to what they claim to be 30-06 standards? Pretty sure they do (although it likely costs 2x more than 30-06).

Maverick223
June 7, 2011, 03:29 PM
I think they do (reduced recoil loads)...but like you said they cost double for no increase in performance (and a little more recoil due to inefficiency). In such circumstances (and otherwise) handloading would be the best option IMO.

:)

mwurman
June 7, 2011, 05:38 PM
I think they do (reduced recoil loads)...but like you said they cost double for no increase in performance (and a little more recoil due to inefficiency). In such circumstances (and otherwise) handloading would be the best option IMO.

:)
Thanks for the info you guys...definitely some good things to keep in mind! The reason i got it was to do some long range shooting at our property in canada, and some hunting up there and here in the US. I took it in to get looked at this morning and picked it up this afternoon, thankfully no damage to the gun whatsoever! I also got some 300 RUM managed recoil 150 grain for $35. From what i've found reading around, the performance of managed recoil is still incredible as compared to a normal round. They had it listed for $40...but they gave it to me for a bit less which was good.

Maverick223
June 7, 2011, 05:43 PM
FYI, rounds like the '06 still do well at ranges up to about 1200yds., and are suitable for hunting up to, and perhaps beyond (depending upon the quarry), 500yds. Not trying to discourage you from keeping it (I will say that it's better suited to CAN than here in the lower-48, particularly the South), just want you to have all the facts before deciding to keep something that you find out you don't really like/need.

:)

mwurman
June 7, 2011, 06:09 PM
FYI, rounds like the '06 still do well at ranges up to about 1200yds., and are suitable for hunting up to, and perhaps beyond (depending upon the quarry), 500yds. Not trying to discourage you from keeping it (I will say that it's better suited to CAN than here in the lower-48, particularly the South), just want you to have all the facts before deciding to keep something that you find out you don't really like/need.

:)
oh and i definitely appreciate it! I addressed the same issues with the shop owner and he is being very accommodating due to what happened...he said if i find its not what i want, bring it back and we'll swap it for something else...so we'll see what i decide to do.

Maverick223
June 7, 2011, 06:16 PM
Sounds like an honest guy...intent on making everything right. Can't ask any more of a man. He made a mistake, but I'd have no qualms doing business with someone like that gentleman again (but I'd still be sure to check the chambering on everything ;)).

:)

Owen
June 7, 2011, 07:09 PM
I'd like to point out, before we crucify the gun store clerk, that the responsibility for firing the correct ammo in a gun lies with the shooter.

Maverick223
June 7, 2011, 08:30 PM
owen, while I agree, he did make a mistake, and should at least know the chambering of the firearm he is selling (but that too goes both ways).

:)

mwurman
June 7, 2011, 09:00 PM
owen, while I agree, he did make a mistake, and should at least know the chambering of the firearm he is selling (but that too goes both ways).

:)
yes and owen (and everyone for that matter), i do take responsibility upon myself for part of the error. I definitely should have been more alert to the fact there was a difference. I take this as a very fortunate learning experience for the future! I am very excited to own a rifle of this level, and i definitely understand now that it comes with quite a bit of responsibility on my part and vigilance. I appreciate the expertise that you all have and the advice! So I thank you for that!

WTBguns10kOK
June 7, 2011, 10:01 PM
This is why I hate magnums. Heard a story some time ago about a guy who went to sight in his .300 Win and bought .300 Wthby. Screwed the whole trip up. Just too easy, since we're all logically focused on numbers before letters.

natman
June 8, 2011, 04:30 AM
They sold it to me when i bought the gun...not sure if it was a stupid mistake or what..they had quite a few people in there that they were helping, so could have gotten me confused. Im not exactly sure how that happened...

It was a stupid mistake. IMO the store owes you an abject apology and a box of the right ammo.

Lesson for you: Always check carefully to make SURE that the writing on the barrel matches the writing on the ammo box exactly. I can think of half a dozen "300 Magnums" without trying and none of them interchange. Worse yet, some of the possible combinations will chamber and fire but it can be extremely dangerous to do so. You were lucky.

mwurman
June 8, 2011, 09:17 AM
Yeah definitely know now! On the subject of reloading the 300 RUM, maybe i should start a new thread, but what would i need? Obviously primers, grain, the slug....not sure what machine i would need. Also, what kind of life expectancy can i get per shell? I hear some dont like to reload the ultra mag brass more than three times because of the power?

MtnCreek
June 8, 2011, 09:32 AM
Go to the reloading section and read the sticky regarding equipment. Really good info.

nastynatesfish
June 8, 2011, 09:57 AM
im sure your gun will shoot better with the right ammo! i shoot a 7 mag and a 300 mag and done see the reason for the RUM in north or south america, hell even canada.
if your stuck on the 300 just get a 300 win mag. save the components. i think that RUM takes something like 105gr of powder instead of about 80 depending for the mag

MtnCreek
June 8, 2011, 10:07 AM
Powder is the cheapest componiant in a reloaded cartrigde. Besides, the 300 RUM has a built in feature that prevents shooting too much ammo.

Maverick223
June 8, 2011, 11:28 AM
Besides, the 300 RUM has a built in feature that prevents shooting too much ammo.Hehehe...yeah a shoulder...the shooters shoulder! :D

For handloading you first need a manual, Lyman's is the easiest to understand and has insightful general information about handloading in the front of the manual (get others later, as needed). Other necessary gear includes a press (RCBS RockChucker is a great starter press), powder measure/trickler/funnel, a good scale (don't buy a cheap digital scale as these are iffy at best whereas a cheap balance scale is usually decent and safe), calipers (for measuring OAL), dies (get a kit that includes a FL size/deprime & seater), and a shellholder for your cartridge. Components needed include brass (expect about 3 cycles from something grossly overbore like the RUMs), primers (lg. rifle: magnum size), powder (check your manual for recommendations, but I like Alliant RL-22, RL-25, & H-4831SC for similar cartridges), and bullets (165-180gr. would be a good start, with 178/208gr. Hornady A-Maxs performing well for me and affording superb accuracy as well as good terminal ballistics). Other handy items include a hand primer (my preferred method of priming), a neck-sizing die (distorts the brass less for better life), Lee factory crimp die (to prevent the bullet from un-seating during recoil), universal impact bullet puller, case cleaner/separator, and other accouterments. Not sure if you will get enough life out of your brass to require trimming, but either way that is an addition that can come later.

This kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=646599), these dies (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=722335), and this manual (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=217655) (not absolutely necessary, but highly recommended) is enough get you started. You may want to add this (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=283208) and this (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=839377) in the near future, as well as some of the aforementioned items on a as-needed basis.

:)

mwurman
June 8, 2011, 01:54 PM
Hehehe...yeah a shoulder...the shooters shoulder! :D

For handloading you first need a manual, Lyman's is the easiest to understand and has insightful general information about handloading in the front of the manual (get others later, as needed). Other necessary gear includes a press (RCBS RockChucker is a great starter press), powder measure/trickler/funnel, a good scale (don't buy a cheap digital scale as these are iffy at best whereas a cheap balance scale is usually decent and safe), calipers (for measuring OAL), dies (get a kit that includes a FL size/deprime & seater), and a shellholder for your cartridge. Components needed include brass (expect about 3 cycles from something grossly overbore like the RUMs), primers (lg. rifle: magnum size), powder (check your manual for recommendations, but I like Alliant RL-22, RL-25, & H-4831SC for similar cartridges), and bullets (165-180gr. would be a good start, with 178/208gr. Hornady A-Maxs performing well for me and affording superb accuracy as well as good terminal ballistics). Other handy items include a hand primer (my preferred method of priming), a neck-sizing die (distorts the brass less for better life), Lee factory crimp die (to prevent the bullet from un-seating during recoil), universal impact bullet puller, case cleaner/separator, and other accouterments. Not sure if you will get enough life out of your brass to require trimming, but either way that is an addition that can come later.

This kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=646599), these dies (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=722335), and this manual (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=217655) (not absolutely necessary, but highly recommended) is enough get you started. You may want to add this (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=283208) and this (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=839377) in the near future, as well as some of the aforementioned items on a as-needed basis.

:)
Thanks alot for the information! I was also looking at Lee's stuff, which pretty much does the same thing. I think i have these right, but this is what i would need for primers (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=171305), brass (http://www.thegunsource.com/item/38707_Remington_Reloading_Equipment_Remington_RC300RA_Unprime.aspx), bullets (http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=1&categoryId=20331&categoryString=9315***652***19785***20324***), and powder (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=211569).

Correct me if something isnt right or i would be better suited with another brand/type of any of those! Thanks!

x_wrench
June 8, 2011, 02:27 PM
yep, those cases are simply SCRAP! throw them in the garbage! did you buy the ammo at the same plce you bought the firearm? if so, that salesman should be TERMINATED A.S.A.P.! you were very lucky that nothing bad happened. and just fyi, that is a LOT of difference between fired, and unfired.

Maverick223
June 8, 2011, 03:50 PM
The brass you linked to will work fine, as will the primers, the powder is acceptable as well (though you will use more weight for similar performance when compared to RL-22, RL-25, or H-4831SC), but you need to use .308cal. bullets like any of these (http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseCategories.aspx?tabId=1&categoryId=7243&categoryString=9315***652***19785***9016***) (180gr. and greater are usually best for magnums, but they all have their uses). Additionally I would avoid Remington brass (Nosler and Federal are both much better and generally afford greater longevity) and to a lesser extent their primers and projectiles (Sierra and Hornady make great bullets for a fair price) as well.

:)

HOOfan_1
June 8, 2011, 03:52 PM
This is why I hate magnums. Heard a story some time ago about a guy who went to sight in his .300 Win and bought .300 Wthby. Screwed the whole trip up. Just too easy, since we're all logically focused on numbers before letters.

Well, that could happen with cartridges that aren't magnums as well...

He could have bought .308 Marlin Express for a .308 Winchester chambered gun? Or .338 Marlin Express for a .338 Winchester Magnum?

shaggy430
June 8, 2011, 05:43 PM
I think it would be best if the OP got a little more experience under his belt before attempting reloading. Attention to detail is paramount with reloading and with powders such as H4350 and IMR4350, etc it easy to make a mistake if one is not observant or does not inform themselves. I would also suggest the state hunter safety class or a basic firearms safety class (see #5 of the 10 commandments of firearm safety.)

Also, I don't ever remember picking up a gun, much less one I about to shell out several hundred dollars for, without looking at the caliber stamp.

I'm not trying to be rude or condescending, but we are talking about a situation that could have been deadly. Adding an inexperienced reloader and a cartridge that holds up to 100 grains of powder may not be the best idea.

Durty
June 8, 2011, 07:18 PM
I agree with Shaggy. Let's slow this whole thing waaaay dowwwwn. I do understand all about having a new toy to obsess over however, this equipment is made to kill and it does just that very well. First, if you intend on shooting that rifle at targets that are a long way off--400 yards or more--you will be disappointed. From that picture, you have purchased a sporter weight rifle. It is difficult enough to keep a light rifle like that steady on a buck at 200 yards, much less 400. It would require an incredible amount of practice to become efficient with that rifle at ranges past 300 yards. And let's be honest--practicing long range shooting with a sporter weight ultra mag is not reasonable. You will become a worse shooter way before you become a better shooter. You cannot discount a flinch. It's a bad habit that people develop from improperly shooting guns that are more than they can effectively handle and unfortunately, that rifle you bought is the perfect recipe for developing a flinch. If that store owner will let you return the gun or trade it in for a 308, 30-06, 260, 270, 280, 7mm-08, or anything along those lines--DO IT!

1stmarine
June 8, 2011, 07:22 PM
STOP!!!!
take the whole thing back to the store and ask them to explain to you how they gave you the wrong ammo and why they didn't explain how the whole thing works.
You must just have ruined the potential of your barrel. It is hard to tell but I would not be surprised.

Then ask at your range for somebody to mentor you in some basic safety rules and shooting techniques.

Cheers,
E.

shinz
June 10, 2011, 07:45 AM
yep, those cases are simply SCRAP! throw them in the garbage! did you buy the ammo at the same plce you bought the firearm? if so, that salesman should be TERMINATED A.S.A.P.! you were very lucky that nothing bad happened. and just fyi, that is a LOT of difference between fired, and unfired.
NOOOO, while I agree they're scrap they're also now an interesting oddity & a great talking point & if it wasn't such a hassle to export such stuff I'd put my hand up to have one if they're all like the pictures you put up. I'd be surprised if you don't find some willing takers for them.
Steve.

28lx
June 10, 2011, 09:35 AM
You are a lucky man thats for sure. As for the post condemming the 300 Ultra I would ignore them. It outruns the Weatherby and the Wincester doesnt use a belt and have you priced 300 Weatherby ammo ? IMO you have the best 300 magnum going. Recoil is managable and if your lazy sight it in with the 200 grain Partition Remington load and hunt anything you want.

mwurman
June 10, 2011, 11:55 AM
Thanks for all the opinions on things....i respect them as such and take advice carefully. In the end I am going to keep the gun, and get something else as well. After all I got the thing for such a dirt cheap price that i really dont consider it all that much of a loss if i shoot it every so often.

As far as reloading, i have a friend here at work who hunts with a 300 Win Mag and a 300 RUM...and he's been reloading those shells for years. So I think he is a perfect resource. Im actually going over there tonight and we are going to make some, and do some training...pretty stoked!

Maverick223
June 10, 2011, 12:58 PM
As far as reloading, i have a friend here at work who hunts with a 300 Win Mag and a 300 RUM...and he's been reloading those shells for years. So I think he is a perfect resource. Im actually going over there tonight and we are going to make some, and do some training...pretty stoked!Now that, there, is a outstanding idea! As is getting a second rifle that is a bit more tame. Nothing wrong with the RUM, if you like it, but a general purpose rifle it's not.

:)

mwurman
June 11, 2011, 11:02 AM
Unfortunately I've given away all the old brass save for one i keep as a reminder of my mortality haha But here's some more comparison shots of the three together... left to right: .300 Win Mag, .300 Win Mag shell expanded, .300 Rem Ultra Mag.

http://gallery.me.com/mark.urman/100305/IMG_3851/web.jpg?ver=13078032140001

H&Hhunter
June 11, 2011, 12:47 PM
You lucky lucky man!!

Maverick223
June 11, 2011, 03:12 PM
Thanks for sharing the photo...it makes for an interesting comparison. Definitely keep one as a reminder, and a conversation piece/lesson.

Good luck with the new rifle. I'd normally add: be safe, but I think you have that part down (now).

:)

rcmodel
June 11, 2011, 03:22 PM
You must just have ruined the potential of your barrel.No, he didn't.

The only harm would have been if a case had let go and leaked white-hot gas into the action.
That would have distroyed the rifle, and possibly the shooter too.

Since the cases held, no harm was done.
The smaller case expanding in the larger chamber actually lowered the chamber pressure considerably over what it is with the correct cartridge.
It would be the same effect as shooting a reduced load in the .300 RUM pressure wise.

As long as one of the cases didn't let go, and all the bullets got out of the barrel, no harm was done to the rifle.

rc

Maverick223
June 11, 2011, 04:06 PM
^ It probably didn't do the throat any favors, but I agree 10rnds. shouldn't make any discernible difference.

:)

1stmarine
June 11, 2011, 09:37 PM
Have the rifle inspected by an experienced gunsmith with precision gauges,
including throat and headspace.
Before the case expands that much it thrusts back into the action that can result in damage, might not be obvious but it could happen. Best case a damaged firing pin or extractor, worse metal stress that could lead to internal cracks.
The 300 RUM julst like the .30-378 Weatherby is a overbored super magnum casing. Do not play with this. It is a serious deal. You got really lucky. Might not realize this now but I have seen systems blow up and it is not pretty.
You only have 2 eyes and one life. Do not play with any of that.

GooseGestapo
June 12, 2011, 03:09 AM
I actually have an identical rifle, (Savage M110 in .300RUM).
I doubt seriously that the rifle was harmed. The base of the .300RUM is the same as the belt on the .300winmag which is why you were able to chamber and fire the cartridge. As far as the shoulder moving foward, the .17HMR is designed to do this, so, no problem as all it did was reduce the chamber pressure. I too am suprised by the level of accuracy you got, but, then again, not really.

I knew going in what I was getting into but still had some suprises with the firearm. It was used, and had "issues". The rifle was obviously not properly inspected before it left the factory, as the extractor was installed backwards. Secondly, someone had badly scratched the chamber walls with something hard in ejecting the cases by running something besides a cleaning rod into the chamber. I was able to "fix" both and now have an amazing rifle.

I reload for mine, and although the recoil is "thrilling", it's not as bad as some might think.(think a Rem. Mod 870 pump with 3.5" 2oz, turkey loads...) I installed a "kick-eze" recoil pad and it tamed it considerably. Also, if you get one of the surplus .50BMG powders that are suited to the .300RUM, it can be LESS EXPENSIVE to load for (hence shoot) than a .308wcf or even a .30/30. I bought 16lbs of WC-860 powder for $50.00 from Wideners Shooters supply in '05 and Still have over 12lbs even though I also use it in a .257wbymag I picked up in a similar deal. (I have less than $600 in BOTH rifles....). Currently there is some WC-862(?) on the market for $50 for 8lbs which is still a "deal". This, even at ~100grs per load will make your .300RUM cheaper to shoot than a .30/06 with current "retail" powders.....

If you want to "down" load your .300RUM to the "managed" recoil loads, you have two options. I've used starting loads for IMR7828 for .300WinMag duplication, and got fabulous accuracy (sub-moa). Likewise, you can use XMP-5744 powder to load .30/06 equivalent loads. Hodgdon's even has some loads with "Trail Boss" which take it down to a .30/30 equivalent. However, I haven't tried the latter two options. I've got too many other rifles (.30/30's, and .30/06's) to bother with changing recipes for the .300RUM. Don't be suprised that the "managed" recoil loads don't shoot to the same sight-settings of the full powderd ammo. Mine doesn't. Hence, I don't bother with them. The exception is the mentioned load with IMR-7828. It shoots very close to the "full" powered loads.

For bullets, the Hornady 180gr Interlok is decent as it the Remington 180gr CorLokts. I've used both on deer and they perform well. The Remingtons used to be a lot cheaper than they are now, however. For a good "inexpensive" bullet for target practice and shooting deer, the Privi-Partizan bullets from Graf's are about as inexpensive bullet as you'll find. My rifle likes the 165gr BTSpt and shoots them to about 1.5" at 100yds at about 3,500fps. I'm sure that it'll "splatter" a deer pretty badly, hence I'd expect a bit of meat loss at this loading level. But, it'd make an awesome long-range coyote buster... Think a prararie dog hit with a .22-250 is a spectacular sight? !!!!!!

Enjoy your .300RUM. I do mine, when I'm in a the mood for it......

mwurman
June 21, 2011, 04:27 PM
yeah the rifle was completely unscathed...gunsmith checked it out and in the interest of a pun said, "apparently your gun is bullet-proof" haha. Yeah i've started reloading at this point and am trying a few different loads. Thanks to Hodgdon and their reloading data center, im going to try a few things. I bought some Hornady 180gr Interlock BTSP's as well as some SST's. Powder im using is Retumbo, with min to max grain 94.0-100.5C. So im going to start experimenting with different loads and see what I get. I also want to try some nosler accubonds. maybe some H1000 powder...

oh and side note, boresnakes are the best thing ever when it comes to cleaning the thing :D

d2wing
June 21, 2011, 07:12 PM
It's all been said but I have to add, Wow.

Maverick223
June 22, 2011, 01:36 AM
oh and side note, boresnakes are the best thing ever when it comes to cleaning the thingBore Snakes are handy for a quick cleaning, but just keep in mind that it doesn't take the place of a good solid rod with jags and patches for a thorough cleaning.

BTW, glad to hear that you're enjoying the new rifle!

:)

mwurman
June 30, 2011, 08:47 AM
Here was 5 shots at 200 yards. Setup: 180 gr Hornady Interlock BTSP, 95.5 grain Retumbo

http://gallery.me.com/mark.urman/100305/IMG_3912/web.jpg?ver=13094378990001

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