I will be picking up a new-to-me Enfield No 4 tomorrow. .303 is fairly easy to come by. This will just be a fun gun mostly and I suppose SHTF if it came to that...don't expect to hunt with it.
Since it is a bolt action I assume just about any factory ammo will be good. But I thought I'd ask if there were any recommendations or warnings about 303 ammo anybody may want to share. I am tired of worrying about surplus ammo and whether or not it is corrosive so I am looking at "brand name" product.
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June 6, 2011, 04:17 PM
Get them at Wideners.com now while they are available.
June 6, 2011, 04:23 PM
I got two boxes of Remington 180gr. SPs for mine. $29 a box at Gander Mountain beat my LGS at $33 a box for the exact same thing. I haven't gotten the chance to shoot much else through mine, but it seems to be very good quality ammo.
June 6, 2011, 05:07 PM
Any commercial 303 ought to do very well in you Enfield. If you are going to do a lot of shooting with it you might think about some basic reloading. 32 or 33 cents a round as oppose to a buck a pop.
June 6, 2011, 06:47 PM
Just went through finding the best deal widners is less but shipping is over the top GRAF&SONS $4.00 shipping makes it the best deal by far. same ammo as widners but far less to the house
June 6, 2011, 07:21 PM
If you plan on reloading Prvi Partizan would be your best choice and I conceder it military grade brass.
Prvi Partizan has thicker rims
Prvi Partizan has a larger base diameter
Prvi Partizan is .010 thicker in the base web area than "ANY" other brand of .303 British cartridge case.
The only problem is Prvi Partizan ammunition is it loaded with boat tail bullets and boat tail bullets will NOT shoot well in worn barrels with Cordite throat erosion.
American commercial .303 ammunition is not military grade and will stretch badly at military head space settings.
June 7, 2011, 12:42 AM
Big Ed Good job been reloading a lot the past few years and just got me hands on a Santa Fe golden state aromery J/C 303 so have been collecting cases and bullets have a long line of cases waiting to be tumbled trimmed and loaded befor i can start the 303 really looking forward to it.
thanx for the good info. anything else you could add would love to hear it.
June 7, 2011, 04:04 PM
In many forums you have "experts" that tell you to lube your ammo when fire forming your cases as this keeps the case from gripping the chamber walls.
In the 2005 book below it tells you to set your headspace .003 over your rim thickness. With some makes of American made cases this will be approximatly .003 under the minimum head space setting of .064.
The Enfield rifle has a bad reputation for short case life when reloading, and it is not the fault of this British rifle. The problem is American made comertial cases are not made to British military standards.
Below case stretching in the web area with American made comertial cases.
Proper fire forming of your .303 British cases is critical to long case life when reloading. Once the cases are fire formed you neck size only and do not push the shoulder of the case back as it now will head space on the shoulder of the case.
Prvi Partizan and Wolf are good quality factory ammo. I'm told the Wolf is made in the same factory as PP.
June 7, 2011, 08:34 PM
Hot Shot from Century, Sellier & Beloit (not good for reloading), and Wolf work. I reload, so I haven't shot anything but my loads and some surplus DAC "click-bangs" lately.
June 7, 2011, 09:02 PM
I have a No1 Mk3 from 1943. It shoots good with Remington Round Nose 180 grain.
I also reload for the rifle a few times. The only bullet I have tried in hand loading are the Sierra 180 grain Spire Tips with H4895.
I need to give it more attention. I really want to shoot a deer with it this year. I also would like to have a case of Mk 7 ammo.
June 7, 2011, 09:37 PM
I would not buy American .303 ammo as it is loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to most other commercial ammo. S & B is the hottest that I have used, but their brass is too brittle for reloading. Prvi shoots ok and their brass is the best I've used.
I don't know why, but my handloads and reloads are much more accurate than any factory ammo I have used. I just use the classic Lee loader IMR 4064 powder and just about any bullet.
I would have your rifle checked by a gunsmith that knows enfields.
Lots of good information above.
June 8, 2011, 08:04 AM
Excellent thread - agree with Prvi Partizan :)
June 8, 2011, 08:13 AM
Wow. I am usually a real thread "buzz kill" but this one is great.
I am not yet set up to reload but I have friends. I know a little about this boat-tail bullet issue...very little. Sounds like Prvi would be a good choice of factory ammo in which I save the brass for a day when I could have it reloaded. Mentioned above is that Prvi is boattail from the factory. A. Is this true...always...or are there different bullets, and B. Does it really matter. I am not doubting the poster on either point but this being the internet...well...any second opinions on Prvi boattails? Seems like maybe a non-issue due to the number of recommendations?
This thread is a real asset to Enfield shooters, one of which I will soon become.
June 8, 2011, 02:53 PM
All of the Prvi I have seen were loaded with b/tails.
June 8, 2011, 03:13 PM
Would you believe the British manual about boat tail bullets and Cordite bore erosion.:rolleyes:
The Enfield rifle fired cordite powder an early type of "Hot" burning double base powder loaded in the Mk.7 ammunition with "FLAT BASE" bullets. The long range machine guns fired a single base powder loaded with a rebated boat tail bullets. (Mk.8z)
The warning about boat tail bullets fired from weapons that have fired cordite ammunition is below. Cordite loaded Mk.7 ammunition would cause more throat erosion and after use the boat tail bullets would not stabilize and were inaccurate.
"Any" rifle with bore erosion will not shoot boat tail bullets well, BUT a flat base bullet when kicked in the backside when fired will expand and fill the bore diameter and "grip" the worn rifling better than a boat tail bullet.
I don't like information given by faceless strangers either on the internet, that is why I collected every book and manual I could on the Enfield rifle. The books and manuals do not contain opinions, myths and the garbage printed in many forums.
To put the matter to rest and not be a faceless stranger any longer I will tell you the following.
I'm very good looking, exceedingly smart and very modest. :rolleyes:
I also hate loosing Enfield postal matches to the Australians. :D
What happens on other sites is no concern of here. As long as he behaves himself you have no reason to start a pissing contest.
Using Prvi Partisan seems to yield good results in Enfields. The brass is of good quality and is above that of any surplus. In the P14 I have witnessed taht it has excessive headspace for any surplus, and Prvi seems to have the least case bulging
June 15, 2011, 12:02 AM
Pissing contest, never happen but SlamFire1 just stuck his foot in his mouth for the second time today and it stops right NOW.
Warning Mr. SlamFire1, you have gone too far "AGAIN" and a PM is going to be sent about your personal attack to the management here. I do not know you and we have never met and yet you have decided that you know all about me and decided to attack me.
I collect Enfield rifles I also have hunted down from all over the world Enfield books and manuals and posted them to the net for free down load. 95% of ALL Enfield books and manuals you see on the Internet today came from my efforts.
Your cut and paste is from Milsurps.com a Canadian website and the owner sucked MY manual sticky dry at the American website where my Enfield manual sticky "were" located. My Enfield manual stickys are shut down and closed because another Canadian lied and said these manuals were copyrighted. And now the owner at milsurps has all these manuals for download, they were "NEVER" protected by copyright laws and he is profiting from all the work I did. So would this surprise you that the owner and I do not get along after he screwed me.
The owner got several books from me and posted them at HIS Canadian website and jumped all over the Internet advertising what he got from me and other contributors.
A book that Badger the owner added to his website was unfortunately still copyrighted, this book was posted at his web site BUT originally this posting did not have MY name in it. When he was contacted by a lawyers from Australia this "kind" website owner decided to add my name to this book to try and pass his legal problems on to me.
This reads Mr. SlamFire1 that YOU do not know why Badger the owner is angry, it shows that you know NOTHING about what has gone on for the last six years over the control of these books and manuals or the money it brings in to the website.
I have over 13 DVDs from the British MOD Pattern Room Library covering years of British military firearms and this information didn't come free. I have books and manuals from all over the world on the Enfield rifle and this information did not cost this Canadian website owner one red cent.
And now about your insulting comments about greasing or oiling cartridge cases.
The British warned you to not lube your cartridge cases in 1929.
What you also do not understand Mr. SlamFire1 is an owner of another Canadian website lied and contacted the two American websites where I had my Enfield manual stickys, and told them I was breaking copyright laws. So this lying blood sucking leach could make money selling his Enfield books.
So Mr. SlamFire1 a hobby of mine turned into a war that goes on to this very day and deals with back stabbing in the name of money.
Did I tell you I was giving these manuals away for free hoping to start an Enfield renaissance of enlightenment but the barbarians invaded and drove the Enfield world back into the dark ages.
NOW Mr. SlamFire1 keep your big mouth shut about things you know NOTHING about and stop making yourself look like an ignorant idiot.
The posting you linked deals with two people, one who was telling everyone in our Enfield forums to grease their ammo. The other person said he was going to convert an Enfield rifle to a .300 Winchester Magnum and grease the cases and check for radial and longitudinal case expansion.
This is your last warning, personal attacks are not allowed, I don't even know you or have I even said anything to you before today about your stupid moronic comments.
I just ordered a few boxes of Privi Partisan from Graf & Sons. I look forward to seeing how it loads and shoots.
As an aside, I am a fan of S&B ammunition as well. Yes they typically have brittle brass, but that is nothing a quick annealing won't fix. Why let such a resource go to waste?
June 15, 2011, 06:10 AM
I've deleted slamfire's last post due to non-high road language. One of the unspoken laws here is that when we sign on, we start with a clean slate. What happened on another board stays on that board.
The warning about not lubing ammunition is an old one, and valid. The warnings about British Enfield mil-surp rifles is also valid...as with any mil-surp rifle that has obviously seen service and its specs...like headspace, etc, are unknown. Biged may have gone a little overboard with his presentation, but his information is good. I'd rather see a little too much concern over this particular issue than the opposite camp that advises us to go ahead and blast away without at least having the rifle checked out by someone who knows how to use headspace gauges.
Touching off some 50,000 pounds psi 18 inches from the end of my nose isn't something that I take lightly.
Slam...You're a veteran member here and we want to keep you around. If you feel that someone is presenting bogus or dangerous information...please report your concerns to the staff quietly and privately.
As you were, gentlemen. I'll be in the area all day.
June 15, 2011, 06:11 AM
Sellier & Beloit (not good for reloading),
If you anneal the case necks then neck size only S&B .303 brass will reload 6 to 10 times when loaded at full power ball levels.
June 15, 2011, 09:36 AM
The rated chamber pressure for the .303 is 45,000 cup or 49,000 psi, American commercial ammunition is downloaded to 43,000 cup or less due to the amount of older Enfields still being used. When these American cartridge cases are reloaded and shot at pressures above 43,000 cup the brass does not last long if not fire formed with the cartridge hard against the bolt face.
British military head space settings are .064 min to .074 max and your Enfield will not blow up if the maximum head space is exceeded. The gas venting system on the Enfield works very well even if a case head separation occurs the gas is just vented protecting the rifle and shooter.
On the Enfield rifle below a 1950 Mk.2, I have set the head space from tight as .060 to .084 testing these settings for stretching. Even at .010 over maximum Remington and Winchester factory rounds had no case head separations.
The excess bolt head over turn below will cause the threads in the bolt body and bolt head to take the full force of bolt thrust pressure on firing. (any oil or grease on the cartridge will make the force much worse and cause even more damage)