Hi Power vs CZ 75


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tdstout
June 6, 2011, 05:08 PM
This question may have already been asked by someone else, but i couldn't find it. Anyways, I'm in the market for a 9mm, and I'm curious as to which one is better in terms of accuracy and reliability. Please don't suggest that I get a Glock. A buddy of mine has one and it's as uncomfortable as hell to me, plus I don't much care for plastic pistols. Dont start hating on me, it's just a personal preference. Any other suggestions are welcome though.

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mdThanatos
June 6, 2011, 05:15 PM
From what I have heard they are both good choices. I too am in the market for a 9mm and don't want a polygun, this one for me would strictly be for the range. Another option you might want to consider is the Beretta 92. In terms of price it looks like it would be the CZ, the 92 and then the Hi Power, if you were looking at new. If you can find a place that has them and go get a feel for them.

Sunray
June 6, 2011, 05:23 PM
Hi. A CZ75 is a modified BHP clone. It is bigger though. The trigger is farther forward, much like a DA 9mm. Try it on for size first. Would have bought one when they first came to Canada(the shop I worked in had a bunch), long ago, but they're too big for my hand. sniff.

Thompsoncustom
June 6, 2011, 05:43 PM
Both are very good opitions tho both are a little different. the cz 75b holds more rounds but has a bigger grip and the double action reach is long, but it can also be carried cocked and locked in SA.

The hi power have less rounds but is better for people with same hands and holds less rounds. i think its 13 vs 16 but i'm not sure on that.

What are you using the gun for? carry or range gun? I carry a full size cz 75b but if I was going to only use it for the range I would buy a 75b SA or the browning hi power.

and the CZ isn't a browning hi power clone tho a lot of people seem to think that because they are close.

ckone
June 6, 2011, 05:44 PM
While I like Hi-Powers very much, the CZ borrowed everything great about them and added many improvements, for what a quality Hi-Power costs you can get a CZ 75 Shadow which is as good or better than just about ANY 9mm handgun out there regardless of platform...

KodiakBeer
June 6, 2011, 05:56 PM
The new (and very reliable) Mec Gar Hi Power mags hold 15 rounds.

The real difference is that the CZ is a DA/SA and the Hi Power is a SA. So, what platform do you prefer?

Or, you can split the difference and get the CZ 75 SA model. I don't know why those aren't more popular. It eliminates the long trigger reach issue and pretty much duplicates a Hi Power action, at least from the user standpoint.

amd6547
June 6, 2011, 06:00 PM
I have medium sized hands, and have owned several HiPowers. I have also owned a CZ75.
The CZ never felt as good in my hands as th P35.
While I shot the CZ well, it took more effort on my part, where the P35 felt like part of me.

Wade Wilson
June 6, 2011, 06:00 PM
I have had both, I STILL have the Browning High Power, sold the CZ-75. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the cz-75, in fact its a fantastic gun in general, not just for the money, but there is a reason the BHP cost almost twice as much. The BHP is somewhat smaller, and single action. You can get the CZ75 in SA/DA and S/A. They both make great guns and you wont be dissapointed either way.

Quentin
June 6, 2011, 06:02 PM
I think once you hold a Hi Power the decision will be made. Nothing else feels as good in many people's hands. The main problem is finding one these days but there are many like new and used ones out there. Don't forget there are low cost FM and FEG models, some of which are true clones. In fact some Argentine FMs are licensed by FN.

Vince45
June 6, 2011, 06:04 PM
I had a CZ 85 9mm , I shot a lot of IDPA with it and fired a case of Norinco, 2000 rounds one season , It never jammed ever , not one round .

GZOh
June 6, 2011, 07:09 PM
I own both and both are truly EXCELLENT pistols. Both are VERY accurate, both are QUALITY pistols and both are close to flawless shoots.
For my large hands, the CZ-75B feels alittle larger and 'fuller' while the BHP is the sleeker and sexier looker. CZ is DA/SA, BHP is SA only!
The CZ can be had NIB for about $500, while the BHP new is usually $700+. I own both and wouldn't sell either.
Start with the CZ and work 'up' price-wise, or the BHP and work down. Some refer to the CZ as a BHP 'clone' but it really isn't... looks close but that's all.
If you want a BHP clone go after a FEG-HP, usually in the $300+ range USED... also very good pistol!
Somehow, I'll ditto Quentin... Nothing feels quite like a BHP in your hands... Hard letting it go!!

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq112/geezeepix/ATIBHP010.jpghttp://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq112/geezeepix/CZ75BD002.jpg

chrisb507
June 6, 2011, 09:35 PM
I'm looking for a full-size, non-polymer, 9mm, too. And my choices are narrowing down to these two...I found this comparison between the BHP and CZ pretty interesting: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Browning%20and%20CZ.htm

DFW1911
June 6, 2011, 09:58 PM
Two great choices; these two, IMHO, happen to be the most naturally pointing / ergonomically comfortable pistols I own.

The good news is you can't go wrong with either one. However, see if you can find a range where you can test fire them both, put them through their paces, and see which one you like the best.

You're onto two exceptional designs. Let us know which one you pick...and of course we'll be looking for a range report!

Good luck and have fun.

Have fun,
DFW1911

Carter
June 6, 2011, 09:59 PM
My CZ phantom (polymer framed version) is probably my most loved firearm. Its one that I will never trade, sell, or stop taking to the range.

I've never shot the HI-Power, but it felt great in my hand. However, I think the CZ has more aftermarket options available.

schmeky
June 6, 2011, 10:06 PM
A CZ75 is a modified BHP clone

A mis-representation if ever I read one. The designs are completely unrelated. In fact, the late Stephan A. Camp wrote an excellent report detailing the differences. Internally, these designs have nothing in common.

With this said, these are both timeless engineering marvels. You can't go wrong with either one. The main advantage with the CZ is it is currently very affordable, and the aftermarket support is growing exponentially. You can purchase a CZ, upgrade the trigger performance, sights, action quallity, and enhance other areas as well, and still spend less than you would on an out-of-the-box Hi-Power (that is known for a mundane trigger).

armoredman
June 6, 2011, 10:26 PM
schmeky beat me to it - CZ and BHP have things like being an auto and 9mm caliber in common, not the same gun at all. The late, great Stephen Camp did have a very good comparison write up, being THE Hi Power expert and a CZ guru as well.
I have shot both and I still have CZ pistols, not Hi Powers. The CZs fit me like a custom made glove, and tend to be very accurate for me. Also, I am not a single action guy, never have been. I like the short DA of the halfcock notch on my CZs, and I agree with a poster above - the Phantom IS an awesome pistol!

Wishoot
June 6, 2011, 10:37 PM
I have both and enjoy shooting them both very much. Neither would be a bad choice. If one had to go however, it would be the CZ75.

For me, the Hi Power defines ergonomics, comfort, accuracy and precision machining. Don't get me wrong, the CZ is an excellent gun there's no doubt about it, but the Hi Power trumps the CZ in many respects IMHO.

Now I just had a chance to shoot a CZ SP01 Phantom and like any other CZ, it's awesome. I may enjoy it more than the 75B. Still doesn't compare with the BHP.

Princi
June 6, 2011, 10:37 PM
First, I'm shocked to learn about Stephen Camp, I'm glad I bought his manuals from him before he passed away. He lived just north of us here at DFW.

On topic: I owned the BHP before buying a CZ-75. As schmeky said: they are nothing alike internally. When I bought the CZ-75, I thought the same thing when I looked at the BHP. They do resemble each other.

The first time I disassembled the BHP, I was amazed at the simplicity of the design. It is pure genius. What I don't like is the later addition of the magazine disconnect, which screws up the feel of the trigger. However, even with the magazine disconnect, the trigger was better than the creepy trigger on my two CZ-75's (9mm and 22LR).

The CZ-75 has been copied as the Baby Eagle (Magnum Research) and the EAA Witness. EAA also imports the EAA Witness Elite versions that are made in Italy. The Elite versions are fantastic. I bought the Elite Match first, followed by the Limited, and finally got lucky and was able to get the Gold Team.

There is also a SAO CZ-75 that comes from their Custom Shop. I've shot it, but I don't think it is as good as the EAA Elites, but that is just a personal opinion and I can't give specific facts, I just didn't like it as well.

The EAA Witness Elite MSRP's are much higher than distributor cost, so you should be able to get one less than the MSRP.

Philo_Beddoe
June 7, 2011, 12:41 AM
Get a cz 75 SA (single action) target, can not be beat.

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/sa-target/

Apocalypse-Now
June 7, 2011, 12:43 AM
Hi. A CZ75 is a modified BHP clone.

uh, nope. not even close ;)


that's like saying an SKS is an AK47 clone because of the superficial resemblance.

Pilot
June 7, 2011, 07:45 AM
Like many others I also own both. I am a huge CZ fan, and you can't go wrong with the 75 series guns. However, my Browning Hi Power is just a notch above in almost every department. I prefer SA guns, also, and while I may pick up a CZ-75SA at some point, I am still always looking out for a good deal on another Hi Power.

My BHP is my most accurate centerfire pistol over many others including HK, Sig, Beretta, and even the CZ's which are darn accurate. You can't go wrong, and you'll probably end up with both some day. CZ are still a great value.

Husker_Fan
June 7, 2011, 11:12 AM
Like others have said, the CZ75 and HP are quite different. I have smaller hands and love the BHP. I actually picked up a LNIB Charles Daly (an FEG with some nice features). I prefer the HP to the CZ, but that's just my preference.

If you decide to go with the HP, think about one of the less expensive clones like FEG or FM. They are very reasonable and plentiful on the used market. Mine has been flawless and I have $310 in it. I'm sure I'll wind up with a Browning someday though.

Smaug
June 7, 2011, 01:43 PM
I like them both, but chose the Hi-Power.

They don't need to be expensive, unless they're a collectible wartime one (and even those are cheap compared to WWII era 1911s) or unless they're a new one marked with 'Browning.'

I bought my Charles Daly Hi-Power a couple years ago on close-out at Cabelas for $350. That brand is not every well respected, it seems, but the gun is top notch. My only complaint is that the white plastic piece on the weird XS front sight fell out. I never did like those sights anyway; great for combat, horrible for bullseye accuracy.

What the capacity of a 9mm CZ75? The Hi-Power is only 13 rounds in 9mm. But that is part of why it is such a comfortable grip; they didn't overdo it.

bradym
June 7, 2011, 03:41 PM
I love them both, they're both all-time proven classics, and you really can't go wrong with either one.

I agonized quite a while between them. For me, the choice came down to the fit in my hand. The CZ fits better than anything, and the HP, as much as I would love one, always feels a a wee bit too small for me.

It may be like the difference between picking a round or square butt revolver. Some prefer one, some the other, some don't particularly care.

So, my recommendation is just try both and pick which one fits the best.

Smaug
June 7, 2011, 03:43 PM
I own a Hi Power and have shot a CZ.

Hi Powers have the nice, consistent SA trigger and a very comfortable grip.

CZs have a horrible DA first shot, unless you get the odd variant with SAO trigger.

CZ slides run inside the frame, which can help accuracy, but the result is that there is not much slide to grip when racking it. It might be a problem with sweaty hands. Women generally cannot rack it, it takes a good amount of hand stength.

Hi Powers can vary a lot. They've been around for 76 years now, and have been made by many manufacturers: FN, Browning, FEG, Manurhin, etc. The vintage ones probably won't feed hollow points.

The Hi Power was an inspiration to CZ when they made the 75, and is John Browning's masterpiece, IMO. it is more comfortable and easier to field strip than the 1911.

The CZ75 is more of modern classic, and I think is a bit better looking.


"Well begun is half done."
-Aristotle

rellascout
June 7, 2011, 03:45 PM
What the capacity of a 9mm CZ75? The Hi-Power is only 13 rounds in 9mm. But that is part of why it is such a comfortable grip; they didn't overdo it.

Mecgars give you 15. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=477345

I personally prefer the BHP. It fits my hand better and points more naturally for me. The CZ DA reach was too long and I am not a fan of their safeties setup. I have have a CZ75b at 2 different times and both times ended up selling it. I still have my P01 which has a different trigger reach.

Once the mag disconnect is out and the right weight mainspring is installed I think the BHP trigger is superior to the CZ75B. All CZ75s exhibit some degree of caming as a result of the design.

In the end it is more of a subjective personal preference type of choice than a one is clearly better than the other. YMMV

KodiakBeer
June 7, 2011, 04:20 PM
Hi Powers can vary a lot. They've been around for 76 years now, and have been made by many manufacturers: FN, Browning, FEG, Manurhin, etc. The vintage ones probably won't feed hollow points.

Browning has never manufactured a Hi Power. Browning Hi Powers have always been made by FN, with a Browning roll mark on the slide for US export.
Manurhin has never made a Hi Power.
FEG Hi Powers are pretty reliable copies, but they actually come in two flavors. One is an actual clone with complete interchangeability of parts with the original FN version. The other flavor resembles a Hi Power externally, but uses a modified S&W system. Parts are unavailable for this S&W version, so if something breaks you're out of luck.
FM (Argentina) makes a pretty good copy. They're a bit rough, but they function well and the parts are interchangeable with FN parts.
Arcus (Bulgaria) makes a Hi Power copy, but I'm not sure how well the parts interchange with FN parts.
There is a rare Israeli clone known as the Kareen dating back to the 1970's, but it is unclear if these guns were actually made in Israel or were assembled from parts made by FEG.

Anyway, there are a lot of Hi Powers out there. The best are made by the original manufacturer, FN. You can pick up used FN's for well under $500 if you keep your eyes open.

rellascout
June 7, 2011, 05:34 PM
BHPs are not as expensive as people think. NIB are $700 and used they are a down right bargain.

MKIII Practical Paid less than $550 for this one.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/practical-2.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/practical.jpg

PW Arms Israeli import. Paid less than $450 for this one.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/izzy-2.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/rellascout/izzy.jpg

rogertc1
June 7, 2011, 06:48 PM
Brownings rock

CZguy
June 7, 2011, 07:30 PM
Anyway, there are a lot of Hi Powers out there. The best are made by the original manufacturer, FN. You can pick up used FN's for well under $500 if you keep your eyes open.


This must be a regional thing.

KodiakBeer
June 7, 2011, 07:41 PM
I just bought an extremely rare alloy framed FN Hi Power for $495 from AIM surplus. The Hi Power before that was a 1990 FN purchased for $389 (or was it $379?) on Gunsamerica.

So, forget regional, just check out the online sites. We're in a recession and people are selling off their guns. The retail prices are also dropping. For gun buyers, this is the "good old days".

JTQ
June 7, 2011, 07:50 PM
Anyway, there are a lot of Hi Powers out there. The best are made by the original manufacturer, FN. You can pick up used FN's for well under $500 if you keep your eyes open.
This must be a regional thing.
BHPs are not as expensive as people think. NIB are $700 and used they are a down right bargain.
And this also must be regional. I look pretty regularly, I'm not hunting for them, but they are what I look for when I step in a gun store or go to a gun show. New MK III's are usually $900ish (plus or minus around $50) in my neck of the woods. I've seen used Hi-Power's for $500, but they are pretty beat up.
I personally prefer the BHP. It fits my hand better and points more naturally for me. The CZ DA reach was too long and I am not a fan of their safeties setup.
I agree with this, though. I'm always intrigued when the subject of "pistols for those with small hands" comes up and people invariably recommend the CZ75. Sure it feels good in the hand, but working the controls, trigger & thumb safety, are not easily done by those with small hands. The Hi-Power is much better in that regard.

txgunsuscg
June 7, 2011, 07:52 PM
I own a CZ-85, CZ-75 (pre-B), and a FN Hi-Power SFS. I have previously owned a CZ SP-01, CZ-75BD, and a CZ P-01. As you can see, I prefer the CZ. Nothing against the Hi-Power (other than maybe the cost, although my FN was about $300 cheaper than the Browning laying next to it). Both are great guns, I carry the CZ in SA mode, so it is comparable to the HP, and I think the ergonomics are better on the CZ. If you want to argue magazine capacity, yes, the new Mec-Gars for the HP hold 15, but the new Mec-Gars for the CZ hold 19 (the flush fit hold 17). As a caveat, I have huge hands, so I have yet to find a gun too big for them.

(Oh, and if we argue John Browning's designs, I would never, ever say the Hi-Power is an improvement over the 1911!)

CZguy
June 7, 2011, 07:53 PM
So, forget regional, just check out the online sites. We're in a recession and people are selling off their guns. The retail prices are also dropping. For gun buyers, this is the "good old days".


Isn't that the truth. I always fondly remember seeing used 1911s going for $50.00 in my early twenty's. Then reality sets in and I remember that I couldn't afford $50.00 back then.

I'll look around, for a used Hi-power. I've always wanted one.

czhen
June 7, 2011, 07:55 PM
Let me put a couple of cents.
Both have super ergos, being the BHP a little thinner.
Accuracy, both are excellent even with old pistols.
Capacity, as is being said hi-cap mags (I prefer Mec-Gar over others brands)
Reliability, both are between the best pistols ever.
Clones, both were, or are copied today around the world, should spoke about it.
Improvements, BHP removing the mag. safety will give an incredible trigger (5 or 6 #); CZ will have very nice trigger after few thousands round without a gunsmith.
CZ USA has an excellent customer service.
Browning has plenty of spare parts.
Price may be a decision factor, but any choice on new or used guns wont disappointed you.

If you like CZ as I do buy first a BHP so will dream about CZ and vice versa.
I'm a big fan of BHP and CZ, they always amaze me when informal plinking or competing.

Sorry I forgot CZ has a Kadet kit on 22 cal. to put red many other rimfire handguns.

Ps.: Sadly Mr. Stephen Camps is not with us to put some more lite on this threat. Visiting his site you will learn about both platform and many other brands.

4v50 Gary
June 7, 2011, 07:56 PM
I like both but if I had to carry one, it would be the CZ-75 as I like its DA/SA trigger.

hso
June 7, 2011, 07:56 PM
My wife and 3 other buddies point CZs naturally and I and another buddy point Hi Powers. They're both quality handguns.

Find what points for you and you'll have whichever is "best" for you.

KodiakBeer
June 7, 2011, 08:00 PM
when I step in a gun store or go to a gun show. New MK III's are usually $900ish (plus or minus around $50) in my neck of the woods. I've seen used Hi-Power's for $500, but they are pretty beat up.

You have to go online.

KodiakBeer
June 7, 2011, 08:09 PM
other than maybe the cost, although my FN was about $300 cheaper than the Browning laying next to it

You do realize that both guns were made by FN?

rellascout
June 7, 2011, 08:15 PM
The Practical I posted was bought off Gunbroker. The Izzy was bought from Dan's Ammo.

$700 is the most recent price at CDNN.

Walt Sherrill
June 7, 2011, 08:27 PM
A CZ75 is a modified BHP clone.

Wrong.

The CZ has almost NOTHING in common with the BHP -- it is a totally different design. It is neither a clone nor an improved version of the BHP design. It is totally different inside. The CZ has many more parts and a totally different firing mechanism.

Don't believe it? Compare parts charts/list and diagrams -- they're both available on line from a number of sources. (Just look up "exploded gun diagrams" or similar offering user manuals, using Google. ) Here's one: http://www.okiegunsmithshop.com/lvl25.html

Both are great guns, and it's primarily a matter of personal choice. I have both and like both, but my favorite is a highly customized CZ Clone -- a true clone (AT-84s) that was improved by a custom gun maker. (I'd probably like a BHP as well or better if it had been given the same attention.)

They look a little alike... that's about it.

.

JTQ
June 7, 2011, 08:30 PM
You have to go online.
I need to find different sources then. I see you guys have listed a few. Thanks.

Here are two points of reference. Based on these two, my local numbers are pretty accurate. I made my previous price reference of $900, without even looking these two up. I didn't cherry pick these two on line retailers either, just the two I'm most familiar with.

Impact Guns $859, plus whatever shipping and transfer fee would be.
http://www.impactguns.com/browning-hi-power-pistol-9mm-matte-finish-mkiii-13-rd-051-010593-023614237648.aspx

Buds Guns $861. Admittedly, this is an out of stock .40S&W model, but I'm not a Buds member and they aren't showing the current prices to non-members. I would think it unlikely they are lower than the one listed.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_145/products_id/33054

KodiakBeer
June 7, 2011, 09:03 PM
CDNN is listing them at $699. http://site.cdnninvestments.com/CDNN2011-1/index.html

txgunsuscg
June 7, 2011, 09:45 PM
You do realize that both guns were made by FN?
I am quite aware that both guns were made by FN. Maybe I should have been clearer - the one stamped FN was $300 less than the one stamped Browning, despite both being imported from identical points of origin. That alone is enough for me to avoid the brand. No amount of stamping is worth $300.

dcarch
June 7, 2011, 10:38 PM
I would get the SAO CZ 75, were I in your position.

rellascout
June 8, 2011, 01:13 PM
I am quite aware that both guns were made by FN. Maybe I should have been clearer - the one stamped FN was $300 less than the one stamped Browning, despite both being imported from identical points of origin. That alone is enough for me to avoid the brand. No amount of stamping is worth $300.

There is a reason for this. The FN guns were brought into the country in an attempt to sell them to LEO in the US like they do in Europe. However our LEOs love of DAO/Striker guns killed that.

These guns where then liquidated at CDNN. The last offering from them IIRC was $499 or less for a multi-buy. The FN rollmarked MKIII guns as a result have always had lower resale value here. Many people are ignorant of the fact that they are the same gun.

I personally look for FNs all the time. I should have bought 10 back then. Oh well.

PS SOG is selling used FEG clones for $250 right now.

JTQ
June 8, 2011, 03:29 PM
I think the last batch of FN Hi-Power's that came in were the SFS models.

I admit, I do like the roll marks on the FN models better than the Browning models.

KodiakBeer
June 8, 2011, 04:36 PM
I am quite aware that both guns were made by FN. Maybe I should have been clearer

I kind of thought so, but there are an awful lot of people who don't realize that Browning is just a marketing firm that doesn't manufacture any guns, so I thought it worth pointing out. I'll be happy to snap up any of them junky FN guns from people who prefer the genuine "Browning" Hi Powers! ;)

txgunsuscg
June 8, 2011, 06:20 PM
I kind of thought so, but there are an awful lot of people who don't realize that Browning is just a marketing firm that doesn't manufacture any guns, so I thought it worth pointing out. I'll be happy to snap up any of them junky FN guns from people who prefer the genuine "Browning" Hi Powers! ;)
Honestly, I was disappointed when they stopped selling the FN stamped ones. Had they kept them at that price, I probably would own another one. I just can't pay the extra money for the Browning stamped one (although the 75th anniversary one....)

Like I said earlier, I like both guns, but the CZ just seems to feel a bit better, and I like the price much better....

KodiakBeer
June 8, 2011, 07:43 PM
There are thousands of used FN stamped guns all over the place. Most of them are police turn ins from Europe, Israel, etc, and have been carried a lot and shot little.

kerreckt
June 8, 2011, 08:38 PM
I own both and am very happy with them. I have had the BHP since about 1983. The CZ from about 1992 or so. Really can't remember these things too well. What I do remember is that both are excellent handguns. My advice would be to handle and shoot both if you can and then decide which you feel most comfortable using. I also have a Tanfoglio copy of the CZ. This was the most accurate straight from the box. It feels exactly like the CZ. I will lay out all three guns close my eyes and pick them up. It seems that the BHP is the one that I just don't want to set down...feels too good in my hands. That's me. You need to decide which feels best in your hands. I have put a minimum of 2500 rounds through each of these guns. Many have been handloads. None of these guns have ever given me a problem of any kind....I know I have been no help but I don't think you would go wrong with any of these pistols. Let us know what you decide.

BCRider
June 8, 2011, 10:10 PM
With this thread being into the 3 page numbers I'm not inclined to read ALL the posts.

As a CZ Shadow and pre"b" 75 owner I will say that the CZ's are a joy to shoot. I've held a new production BHP in a store and it felt very nice. But having two CZ's and a Beretta 92fs I just can't get enthused about another 9mm at the moment. Especially when the guys at the store said they couldn't get any extra mags without some searching around. Note that I'm located in Canada after which may be part of the "problem".

Until reading this thread I had not realized that the Hi Powers are SAO. Again with my intrest in IPSC production and IDPA SSP that would be a bit of an issue for me. But I can see how for others this would be a definite positive. Just depends on how you want to use the gun.

If I were looking at an SAO in 9mm I think I'd look at the 1911 platform before I'd jump into a Browning option though. I like the 1911's generally and would be more than happy to add a second such gun to my stable.

powwowell
June 8, 2011, 11:31 PM
I don't know why I'm doing this, after so many others have posted. But, here goes:
1) The first CZ clone I purchased was an all steel EAA Tanfoglio Witness. This is a fantastic pistol. I still have it.
2) I then acquired a Charles Daly Hi-Power. Wow! The feel of the pistol in my hand was fantastic. The bad news is that it came with XPress sights. I just could not get use to the sights and I couldn't find any replacements, due to the cut of the dovetail. I sold it. I wish I had it back.
3) I then acquired a Browning Hi-Power MK III, with Novak three dot sights. Absolute perfection. It is a safe queen because I can't stand the thoughts of a single scratch on it.
4) Next was a CZ P-01. In my hand it felt as good as the Hi-Powers. But this pistol actually hurt me. The tip of my trigger finger became very sore. I tried the C85 combat trigger. It didn't help. I sold it. No regrets.
4) Then there was the CZ flag ship, a 75B. After my experiences with the P-01 and the Hi-Powers, it was just too big and the trigger was bad for my trigger finger. I sold it. No regrets.

The shape and placement of the CZ trigger make them unusable for me. So, I prefer the Hi-Power platform over the CZ platform. And the Witness over the CZ. But, my favorite 9mm is the Ruger SR9c.

larryh1108
June 8, 2011, 11:33 PM
CZs have a horrible DA first shot,

It's not horrible. It's like a revolver pull. Mine was never gritty like many have said. Dry firing it and shooting it makes it smoother but if you're used to a revolver you don't mind the DA pull of a CZ.

I own both pistols as well. If I was told I can only have one I would be happy with either. I'll admit that my CZ is the PCR which has the alloy frame and is the compact model but it's as accurate as the Hi Power and is a tack driver. You can't lose with either pistol. Both are fine quality, reliable and accurate pistols.

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o435/larryh1108/CZ%20USA/CZPCRleft1-1.jpg

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o435/larryh1108/BHP/2TBHPleft1.jpg

1SOW
June 9, 2011, 12:02 AM
I own a Hi Power and have shot a CZ.
Hi Powers have the nice, consistent SA trigger and a very comfortable grip.
CZs have a horrible DA first shot, unless you get the odd variant with SAO trigger.



I own a CZ and have shot the High Power.
I like both pistols. I have small hands
Compare apples to apples. SA to SA.
The CZ SA pistols have a very good trigger.
The CZ SA or DA/SA mags are 16 rd with 18rd optional mags and higher cap. mag extensions readily available.
Numerous sight and grip options are also available from CZ.
CZ mags are made by Mec-Gar. Reliable and reasonably priced.

Check the results of the recent "Double-Tap" competition. CZ was first, second and fourth in "Production Class". This is with the horrible DA/SA version.

The DA/SA CZ does have a longer trigger pull and reach.
It is not smooth OOB. It does improve quite a bit after 500+ rds (live or dry fire). It can be made smooth easily in the garage with some DIY polishing and a $7 spring change.

Like the HP, it points naturally, it's reliable and accurate.
It's also less expensive with many more options readily available.

Shoot them both, but don't compare any SA pistol to any DA/SA pistol.

For a range or competition pistol, I believe the CZ is the better choice.

YMMV

RugerMcMarlin
June 9, 2011, 02:19 AM
The only way you could make a tuffer choice was if the HP was an Inglis, then they would have the same finish too. BHP, but only by a nose.I'm used to they're trigger.Belgian Proof Marks help :D I love CZs too. early CZ75 stamped Czechoslovakia. with dot grips. makes it tuff again.

PaperScraper
June 9, 2011, 04:13 AM
Dunno, it's a personal choice. My choice is CZ all the way. I own 3 now after letting 2 others go to friends who just had to have them.

P-01 has 10,000 rounds through it without any issues in the least, I did put Mempros on it.

SP-01 has almost 20,000 rounds through it without any problems, It has Mempros and I did a trigger job taking the DA down to 3 pounds and the SA to 1 pound, I shoot it in IPSC matches every week, it has a 1/16th reset and it extremely accurate. 25 yard head shots into a PPC target are a breeze.

CZ75b is an IPSC model from the factory ordered through CZ-USA when Dan Wesson first became the importer. Factory drilled frame for the Red Dot mount, combat trigger with take up set screw and action trigger job all done over seas. This pistol has well over 30,000 rounds through it and it is still dead accurate. I am considering rebuilding it or just putting it in the safe and leaving it be.

Brother has a 100% Grade Springfield P9 (CZ75) is all original and the hammer will bite you...

The CZ75 design fit for the Frame to Slide and the barrel is very close to the SIG P210. You have a very high grip on the Barrel Center Axis meaning you are going to have a better hold of the weapon and more control over it.

I do know that I can put 18 rounds into the A zone of 9 IPSC Target setup in a tactical shoot in under 15 seconds while on the move.

I like the HiPower but would rather spend the money for buying a New HiPower on two used CZ's and tune them up myself and have money left over to get a box or two of target rounds.

PaperScraper
June 9, 2011, 04:25 AM
The CZ 75b DA/SA with the Qmega Trigger is very smooth out of the box DA.

tdstout
June 9, 2011, 10:13 AM
A guy up there suggested a 9mm 1911. I already have one in 45, so I know the platform, but I was kind of wanting something else. I'm curious now though, how does one of those compare. You never know, I might change my mind. There's too many choices!!!:banghead:

Pilot
June 9, 2011, 11:51 AM
4) Then there was the CZ flag ship, a 75B. After my experiences with the P-01 and the Hi-Powers, it was just too big and the trigger was bad for my trigger finger. I sold it. No regrets.

The shape and placement of the CZ trigger make them unusable for me. So, I prefer the Hi-Power platform over the CZ platform.


You do know the CZ triggers can be switched to a less curved or straight trigger and the manual safety versions can be shot/carried cocked and locked so the trigger reach is much less, right?

It always amazes me why some sell guns that can be easily modified to correct issues. Some don't like the BHP trigger pull and then sell and otherwise excellent pistol instead of just having a trigger job and/or the mag disconnect removed. :confused:

JROC
June 9, 2011, 07:03 PM
I have no experience with a BHP, but I think my CZ 75 is a great little 9mm.

I agree that I don't like the DA pull on the gun, but when I think about it I don't like the DA pull on any traditional DA gun I've fired. I don't like it on a Sig, I don't like it on my buddies Ruger, I don't like it on a revolver, and I don't like it on my CZ 75 Pre-B. With that said as far as the DA pull on a DA/SA gun goes I find my CZ 75 is easier to keep on target as opposed to other DA/SA guns. Other than a little far reaching I feel it as a very good DA pull compared to other DA/SA guns.

As far as it's SA pull is concerned it is close to being perfect IMO. Probably as good or better than the trigger on my Colt XSE CE. I do have a 13lb mainspring and a competition hammer on my CZ though, but even factory it had a very nice trigger IMO. The gun has wonderful ergonomics in it's SA state as well.

Not trying to take anything away from the BHP as I'm sure it's a great gun, but knocking the CZ for it's DA trigger pull just seems a little petty as if you don't want to fire it in its DA state then just rack the slide, chamber a round, and leave the hammer cocked back, or if you already have one chambered and didn't leave the hammer cocked then just pull it back and you don't have to worry about the DA pull. It's the same thing you have to do to fire a SA gun.

Apocalypse-Now
June 9, 2011, 10:57 PM
CZs have a horrible DA first shot,

say what you will, it still beats the DA pull on a $1,000 HK ;)

KodiakBeer
June 9, 2011, 10:57 PM
Not trying to take anything away from the BHP as I'm sure it's a great gun, but knocking the CZ for it's DA trigger pull just seems a little petty as if you don't want to fire it in its DA state then just rack the slide, chamber a round, and leave the hammer cocked back, or if you already have one chambered and didn't leave the hammer cocked then just pull it back and you don't have to worry about the DA pull. It's the same thing you have to do to fire a SA gun.

Since CZ makes an SAO version, why bother? Just buy the single action CZ version instead. And that's the heart of the issue. If you want a double action first shot (I can't imagine why...), then buy the standard CZ. If you want the better trigger of a single action then buy the SAO CZ or a BHP. That choice would be dictated by price or whichever one "feels" best to you.

Apocalypse-Now
June 9, 2011, 11:01 PM
Since CZ makes an SAO version, why bother?

the CZ75 can be carried cocked and locked, so you never have to use the DA pull. i haven't used it in years.

however, it still affords you second strike capability, which some like (i honestly don't care).

KodiakBeer
June 10, 2011, 12:45 AM
I owned a CZ 85 for some years and realize you can carry them cocked and locked. It's just that the SA trigger on a DA/SA pistol has quite a bit of slack in it. The CZ is better than most, but you'd still be better off with the SAO version (or the BHP) unless you really want to fire your first shot double action.

Personally, I consider the first shot the most important shot. It may be the only one you get. So, it makes no sense to me to buy a DA/SA and use it as an SA when you can get an SA in the first place with a much better trigger.

JROC
June 10, 2011, 02:32 AM
Okay well then buy a CZ 75B SA. Nothing in the OP's post said it had to be a DA CZ 75. I'm just saying the SA in the DA/SA gun is pretty good compared to most guns. You could make the case not to buy a B model because it has a trigger block if you want to nit pick about the trigger. You could buy a cheap CZ 75 and send it to CZ Custom for their $160 trigger job if you feel the need, and still come out pretty good for the $ spent.

One good reason to go with a DA/SA CZ 75B is there's a lot more of them, and if the extra feature you do not use doesn't bother you then why not have it. The slack in the trigger is a little noticeable when handling the gun and dry firing it, but when firing the weapon I haven't notice it or thought about it yet. I bought mine used, but if I was buying a new gun I agree that I would probably go with a SA model. Actually I would really like a dual tone CZ 75 Shadow which is a DA/SA gun. Maybe one of these days.

I do like the beaver tail on the CZ 75B SA.

tdstout
June 10, 2011, 12:20 PM
But how do these two guns compare to a 9 mm 1911?

KodiakBeer
June 10, 2011, 12:41 PM
You're going to get much higher capacity with the CZ or BHP. Other than that, it would be a good choice also.

tdstout
June 10, 2011, 05:30 PM
OK, so they're both excelent pistols. Which one is more accurate? Is it a toss up of which one feels better in my hand?

JROC
June 10, 2011, 05:48 PM
It seems to me that both have the reputation for being accurate, reliable, excellent shooting guns with great ergonomics. Shooters tend to rave about both weapons, and both weapons have very large followings of people who swear by them.

If you really want to go with the better gun you should rent and fire both guns, and decide which you personally feel is the better gun for you. JMO

Onmilo
June 10, 2011, 06:14 PM
Not to be nitpicky, but comparing an FN/Browning Hi-Power to a CZ-83 is sort of like comparing a 1911 Colt to a Beretta 92FS/M9,,,,

Fireandsteel
June 10, 2011, 08:13 PM
Been a big fan of Browning HPs, Have the FN and the FEG Clone.Both are sweet and I have ran JHP, Semi-Wadcutters (lead) and ALL types of ammo I could find.No problem with any of them.Accuracy wasn't a problem as well.The FN has a better quality by far to the FEG but thats to be expected from a clone per say.
The CZ75 Is a great pistol as well.The only different to me is the first round pull as said as others but in SA real nice.I did find mine would not digest all the different types of ammo as the Browning and Clone.(It hates Blazers :cuss: I don't know why) and the semi-wadcutters it wouldn't digest very well.JHPs It really likes Gold Dots.

To me you can't go wrong with either pistols but if I were in the market again I would set my sights on a good ol Browning HP.They just fit me better.
Just my 2 cents worth!:what:

RugerMcMarlin
June 10, 2011, 08:15 PM
Browning Hi Powers do have a springy, spongey trigger. shoot enough to get used to it. Or remove the mag safety, that helps.

Before you tell me why thats a bad idea. I prefer a gun I can fire during mag change.

There is nothing you can do about CZ first shot. But shoot til you get used to it. or cocked and locked.

KodiakBeer
June 11, 2011, 01:06 AM
...comparing an FN/Browning Hi-Power to a CZ-83 is sort of like comparing a 1911 Colt to a Beretta 92FS/M9,,,

I think you're the only one who has brought up a CZ 83!

Pilot
June 11, 2011, 06:37 AM
Browning Hi Powers do have a springy, spongey trigger. shoot enough to get used to it. Or remove the mag safety, that helps.


Really? All of them? I have a box stock 1994 Silver Chrome BHP (with mag safety) that has a crisp tigger that rivals my Colt 1911's. I will admit, they can be hit or miss, but yes removing the mag safety helps or getting some trigger work by a competent Hi Power smith. My point is, you don't have to live with a spongy trigger, and that shouldn't stop you from getting a BHP. My stock BHP trigger is far better than my stock 75B or PCR triggers, although they both are pretty nice also. Remember, these are service sidearms, not tuned target guns, however, my BHP performs like a dedicated target pistol and with the adjustable sights I can dial it in perfectly.

JTQ
June 11, 2011, 02:07 PM
...comparing an FN/Browning Hi-Power to a CZ-83 is sort of like comparing a 1911 Colt to a Beretta 92FS/M9,,,
I think you're the only one who has brought up a CZ 83!
That one also struck me as an odd statement.:confused:

I even looked back through the thread to see if I had missed that some where.

NMGonzo
June 11, 2011, 06:18 PM
for my bonobo type hands the cz is a better choice

briang2ad
June 11, 2011, 06:42 PM
1. Read Hipowers and Handguns web-site. Stephen Camp knows the HP and CZ very well.

2. My 2c:

I own a few CZs, and one MkIII. The CZ's trigger is GENERALLY a little easier to use out of the box. If you get a GOOD Hipower trigger, they are likely better, but will likely be MORE STIFF unless you smith it. Smithing an HP trigger takes a little work.

The Hipower makes an easier carry pistol - it is more svelte. It is more comparable to the CZ Compact. It is also a tad lighter.

They are BOTH very high quality guns, and the CZ is about $150 cheaper.

IF CZ-UB pulled its head out of its 4PC, and made the PCR with a MANUAL safety, it WOULD be hands down the best 9mm out there under $1000. But...

Pilot
June 11, 2011, 08:41 PM
^^^^^^^^^


I agree with all the above. I have also heard that the P-02 is scheduled to be sold in the U.S. which is a P-01 (compact, lightweight alloy frame) with the Omega trigger which can be configured by the user as either a decocker or a manual safety (like the polymer P-07). Sure, I'd rather they also do this with the PCR as that is my daily carry and one of my favorite pistols.

TMann
June 11, 2011, 11:50 PM
I agree with all the above. I have also heard that the P-02 is scheduled to be sold in the U.S. which is a P-01 (compact, lightweight alloy frame) with the Omega trigger which can be configured by the user as either a decocker or a manual safety (like the polymer P-07). Sure, I'd rather they also do this with the PCR as that is my daily carry and one of my favorite pistols.

Interesting. I'd definitely buy one of those.

TMann

viking499
June 12, 2011, 08:33 AM
When is the P02 going to be stateside?

Pilot
June 12, 2011, 10:14 AM
When is the P02 going to be stateside?


I have not heard a release date, but maybe some people closer to CZ-USA will know.

towboat_er
June 12, 2011, 11:01 AM
I like the beaver tail, no hammer bite, CZ75.

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