Like the Kahr, but miss my glock!!!


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joell33
January 16, 2004, 12:24 AM
I recently purchased a Kahr p9 covert. I like it but I do not seem to deploy it as quickly or shoot it as accurately as my glock 26 I sold a while back. I was considering selling the p9 covert in favor of a new glock 26. What do you guys think? The Kahr is a lot easier to carry no doubt about it. But the glock was comfortable enough and it was definitely a better "range gun"as far as accuracy and comfort or putting say 200 or so rounds thru in one session. I know there are trade offs for both but if the glock is too big in some circumstances then I can carry my bersa or my p-32. I just like the 9mm platform a little more for a ccw. Any thoughts? and right now I can't afford both just one at a time. Thanks in advance for any advice.

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Roger Williams
January 16, 2004, 12:34 AM
Well, I'd say give the Kahr a chance, and once you're familiar with it, if it still doesn't work for you go get another Glock.

I have never owned a Kahr. I have owned a few Glocks. I have heard great things about both brands. I think you will probably wind up going back to the Glock. When it comes to how a gun draws, handles, shoots, etc., I usually go with my gut instinct. You know, whatever "feels right " to me. If the 26 just "felt right" to you, maybe that's the way to go.

cratz2
January 16, 2004, 01:25 AM
Well, I own a G23 and daily carry a P9 Covert. In the semi-near future, and if I find the right deal, I'd like to buy either a G26 or G27, probably the G26.

While target-grade accuracy is pretty far down in my list of things I look for in an IWB CCW pistol, I can absolutely shoot my P9 Covert into smaller groups than I can my friends G26 or my G23 for that matter. I don't own a decent holster for my G23 but I carry my Kahr in a High Noon tuckable IWB holster and with practice, I can draw it very nearly as quickly from the leather holster from underneath an untucked shirt as I can draw a beloved 1911 from kydex IWB holster.

I'm a 1911/CZ75 guy at heart, but I like the Glock platform... they go bang very consistantly and are as accurate as I desire in a defensive weapon. But there is zero doubt that the Kahrs are slimmer and in polymer form, a bit lighter than the baby Glocks and certainly a tad easier to conceal under limited clothing. I'd encourage you to try to learn to like the Kahr... If you spent a bit of time with the Glock, it will take time to make the transition but I feel it is one worth making. But if you can't get used to it, then stick with what you are comfortable with and what you believe in.

joell33
January 16, 2004, 09:26 AM
had a couple of fte's in the kahr and that could be feeding into my brain as well. I called Kahr and they said to wait until I had about 200-300 rds thru it( and I do have more than that) before I consider it completely reliable. It has gotten somewhat (still a hang up now and then) better and Kahr said if it did not straighten up they would send fedex to pick it up. Great customer service. But the glock went bang each and every time from the word go. That in itself is worth it's weight in gold in a carry gun. JMHO though. I did order the agrip for the Kahr to see if that helps and I'm gonna give it a chance for a while atleast. Next Gunshow is not til next month anyway. Any other ideas would be great. And thanks guys for the input I'll let you know how it goes.

Gordon Fink
January 16, 2004, 04:43 PM
Lot of possible factors here. The P9 covert has a “long” slide and a short grip, so it may not be as well balanced as a true subcompact pistol. The Glock 26 has a thick grip, so it will fit bigger hands better than the thin grip of the Kahr. The P9 also has a longer, heavier (though smoother) trigger than the Glock, so an experienced Glock shooter will probably be more accurate with a Glock, at least at first.

The PM9 is probably the better gun to compare to the Glock 26, as they’re both 9×19mm subcompacts. For example, I seem to be about equally accurate with my Glock 19 and my Kahr K9, both of which are compact pistols of about the same weight. However, the Kahr feels much more comfortable in my smallish hands.

~G. Fink

joell33
January 16, 2004, 10:46 PM
all of the input guys. I did recieve my agrip today along w/ pierce grip extenders. They make quite a bit of difference. My plans are to clean it and shoot it about 500-600 more rnds this next week. If it straightens up I might keep it. If, however, it continues to fte empties then I will send it to Kahr and once I get it back I will sell it. Go back to a glock with which I've never encountered a problem. Is it just me or does anyone else have a problem with buying $500.00 to $600.00 guns that require trips back to the shop??? Also had a bad experience with Kimber once. Seems like too many so called quality maufacturers don't have a problem with me spending my time and effort to ship their defective products back. Kahr did say they would send fedex by to me, but that still leaves me w/o my gun or the $600.00 I spent on it at their mercies for a time. Hopefully everything will work itself out over the next 300 or so rnds. Any thoughts??? Would this be crazy or the right thing to do???:mad: :confused: :cuss:

Roger Williams
January 17, 2004, 12:12 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else have a problem with buying $500.00 to $600.00 guns that require trips back to the shop?

I definitely do! It irks me to no end when a company expects you to drop so much change on their products and then don't check the damned things as they leave the factory. It also really sucks because I only buy a gun when I want to shoot it *NOW*, not when the manufacturer gets through correcting their mistakes.

Hopefully if you shoot it a lot maybe it will "break in". But really, if you just can't warm up to it, get the Glock that you already know you like... and more importantly will go "bang" every time.

joell33
January 17, 2004, 11:39 PM
Roger for your input. Anyway here's the scoop, Here is the new info on issue. I have put all the break-in period rnds thru my Kahr p9 covert. It is still fte every 20-25 rnds I'll have between 4-6 fte empties. I probably will fire 200-300 more to make sure it doesn't correct itself. If it doesn't then back to Kahr it goes and then it will be for sale. I am losing faith quickly in this gun. I am not going to keep a gun that I might have to use to defend myself or my family if I don't trust it to work every time. I assume I can get someone to trade me for a glock 26 possibly w/ nite sights straight across maybe at the next gunshow. I hope the gunshow is soon. Just need time to send the Kahr to their shop , then away it goes. I am disappointed I like the gun the way it carries but trust is a huge factor in my mind when it comes to my family's safety. What do you guys think is this too harsh??? Thanks again for all the replies I do read and take into consideration all of your ideas. Thanks:)

Roger Williams
January 18, 2004, 01:31 AM
Hey, no problem on the input... just trying to help!

I am disappointed I like the gun the way it carries but trust is a huge factor in my mind when it comes to my family's safety.

You said it all right there. The MOST important attribute in a self defense firearm is that it goes bang each and every time you pull the trigger. You should be able to put your absolute trust in your carry piece. After all, you are betting your life on it... and the lives of your family.

Are you being too harsh? Hell no.

jetman
January 18, 2004, 09:37 AM
Joell33.. I just bought a PM9 Kahr after much investigating which pocket pistol to buy for the new CCW law recently signed in Ohio. I read the Kahr's were designed to handle the hotter factory self defense JHP's as well as +P and +P+loads and don't always completely cycle the slide on a lower powered target ammo type ball rounds. It's more money but I would try putting a couple boxes of HOT JHP or +P Corbon rounds through it and see what happens. You probably won't be carrying it with cheap light powered range ammo, and should try and shoot what you will probably be carrying in it. They weren't designed to be range shooters, and like the hotter loads. Try it and let us know.

Beren
January 18, 2004, 09:55 AM
You might find the MK9 more to your liking. Some people aren't able to get a decent grip on them, but if you didn't have trouble with performing a "three-finger hold" on your G26 then the MK9 won't be anymore trouble. Beautiful little gun, but mmy MK9 had a slight problem - it had started to stick just slightly out of battery. Well, one day at the range, it stuck and I didn't notice. Ka-boom! No damage to me except for shock, but the gun blew out its internals. Sent it back to Kahr, they fixed it up good as new (with new sights, too), and it never stuck again. I eventually traded it towards another gun - a stupid move on my part. (I had the bad habit of trading guns towards other guns in a never-ending cycle of aquiring something different. Now I keep my guns and buy when I can afford them...)

joell33
January 18, 2004, 04:50 PM
guys for the feedback. Jetman I have shot federal +p's in it and had two fte with those. Beren I actually sold an mk9 to purchase a p series so I could pocket carry in an easier manner. What a dumb mistake on my part, I tend to agree w/ you on keeping and not selling or trading anymore. This one will be the last if I get rid of it!!! :confused: anyway hers my decision for now. I've had a feeling it was because the extractor might be too tight. I noticed when I first got it that is was tight. I could move it with my finger but it was tough. Still it seemed to me that more rnds would be jamming if this was the problem? Anyway I thought during the break-in period this might loosen up. It has not. So I'm gonna shoot another 200 rnds this week and if it does not stop I'm gonna give Kahr a call to pick it up. Then I will try it again and see what it does. Still the fact of the matter is that trust is a huge thing in a carry gun and once one fails on me I believe it could happen again w/o warning. I know any gun can fail to operate anytime but after 5000 rnds in a glock w/ no failures I tend to trust it more than a Kahr w/ 300 rnds and 10 or more failures. I appreciate all the help and will let you guys know what happens.

Obiwan
January 18, 2004, 05:55 PM
I had a P9 that made three trips back to the factory before I lost all patience and asked for a new weapon.

They swapped a MK9 elite w/ nite sites and it has been perfectly dependable with all the ammo I have tried.

I will probably NOT buy a polymer framed Kahr...but I am finally happy.

bad_dad_brad
January 18, 2004, 10:07 PM
Said it before, and I will say it again, if Glock would make a thin single stack 9mm in the Kahr MK9 size, they would put Kahr out of business. The G26 is just a little too thick.

Imagine a G26, really thin, like a Kahr, with maybe 7 or 8 rounds. That would be a world beater compact pistol. I can't imagine why Glock does not do it, except that they might not be able to meet BATF import points.

The older Kahrs are okay. I have an older MK9 - flawless, but I have heard a lot of grief from new Kahr owners. Glocks on the other hand, always shoot. I have two, a G19 and a G17, with a perfect record so far.

joell33
January 18, 2004, 10:50 PM
you hit the nail on the head. If Glock had a thinner model of their g26 we would not be discussing this. I would have bought that over anything. Hopefully Kahr will make it right, but I'm not sure I'm gonna keep the p9 covert at this point. I would have to run 1000 rnds with no problems before I would trust it again. Just me but my standard for my family's safety is not a comprimisable issue. Thanks again for the input.

cratz2
January 19, 2004, 12:25 AM
By the way... have all failures been with the same ammo type? If so, what is it? And even if a variety, what brands/weights have you tried.

I posted recently about 124 +P Gold Dots in Kahrs... seems many folks are reporting problems with this combo but I've never had a single failure.

I've also heard the Kahrs were designed around the CorBon 115 Gr +P load. I've only had the chance to put 20 CorBons through my P9 Covert (with zero failures) but when manually cycling ammo through the gun, the CorBons are smoother... pretty much one fluid motion rather than the few stuudddeerrs I can detect when manually cycling the Gold Dots.

Richard
January 19, 2004, 02:49 AM
joell33,

I have three compact Kahrs and a Glock 27. My Kahrs are a custom E9, stainless K9, and a custom K40. I admit that I currently carry the K40 but that I would be as well served with G27.

The G27 is the more versatile of the pistols. Why? With the proper barrels and magazines I can shoot 9mm, 40 S&W, or 357 Sig. I can also use M19 or M23 magazines with A&G Adapters; the G27 then feels like a G19/23. I can carry my G27 in a between the belt and pants Rosen holster, Milt Sparks Mirage, or Alessi Hard Shell Talon (IWB).

A friend who works in a gunshop owns a Kahr PM9 and he swears by it. So many guns and so little time!

Regards,

Richard :D

KahrKarrier
January 19, 2004, 03:22 PM
JOELL, I've been a Kahr carrier for years, all of mine are stainless models, all are totally reliable. My every day Kahr is a MK40 Elite, it's without question the best handgun I have ever owned, that includes three Glocks, 4 S&W's, a Colt, a couple of Rugers, three not to good Kel-Tecs and a host of others. I even have an old stainless Kahr Covert in .40 S&W that I'm not too fond of because it feels nose heavy to me. In addition to the Covert, and the MK40 I have a K40 and a K9, all stainless. Now for my point, all that I have read and experienced over the years seems to indicate that the polymer framed Kahrs are not as reliable and seem to be more troublesome than their stainless brothers. One school of thought is that the frame is too light for the slide which tends to cause some folks to limp wrist, Glocks with their polymer frames seem to have a better balance between frame and slide and were designed from the ground up to have a polymer frame. Kahr's on the other hand were designed from the ground up to be all stainless and their polymer frames were an after thought and on the early models didn't seem to work well. Kahr went to polymer frames because some folks thought they were too heavy. Not being a gun smith, I can't begin to you explain why the stainless models seem to be much more trouble free, they just are. If you bounce around the various gun forums, do a search on the polymer Kahrs and the all stainless Kahrs and I'll bet you a beer you'll find far more bitches about the polymer frame models. The stainless are slightly heavier but they feel more like a "real" gun and in my opinion a more reliable pistol.

joell33
January 19, 2004, 09:16 PM
for the input. I agree kahrkarrier about the stainless. I should have went taht direction and still may trade for one when mine gets back. Also I have used sevseral ammo types(don't know which ones offhand) but I could look and see. Anyway fedex is gonna pick it up tomorrow and (had a delay with the proper address today) we'llsee what happens. I will probably end up selling it or trading it for either a stainless model or possibly a glock 26. Not sure how happy I'll be going back to a chunkier gun, but if the trade-off is reliabilty it wil be worth the extra space needed to carry. Thanks again I'll let you guys know the outcome and how Karh's cust. srvice is. Thanks again everyone

another okie
January 19, 2004, 09:54 PM
Several times I have handled P9s and PM9s at stores and gun shows and come within a second or two of buying, but I think about the number of threads I've read about problems, and my problem-free 26. I also remember that the Glock fits my hand perfectly.

I have fairly large hands and the Kahr just feels a little thin to handle recoil and take a good grip. I always feel as if my thumbs are going to block my trigger stroke.

The Glock is pretty easy to conceal IWB, but IWB is itself a little bit of a pain compared to OWB or pocket carry. On the other hand I did fire a PM9 and really liked it.

I guess indecision means they both are good choices.

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