Beware! Ammo Not What It Was Labeled


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DCoke
June 7, 2011, 02:37 AM
Not sure how or when, but ammo I fired at the range yesterday was not what it was supposed to be. Was supposed to be firing Hornady .204 32gr from my Savage Model 12 VLPSS when I noticed smoke from the chamber upon firing and felt burning powder on my cheek (much like when firing flintlock with flashpan burning). Ejected casing to see primer punched through by firing pin and then noticed that my new box of Hornady was not Hornady at all, but was instead Winchester cases with Hornady VMax 32gr bullets and VERY SOFT THIN PRIMERS! I don't believe that Hornady uses anything but Hornady brass cases and I think it was switched by some unscrupulous person but I have no way of proving that. It's my own fault for not paying attention when loading the rifle, but not something I'd expect from what I thought I was shooting. It turns out I have about 5 boxes that are not what is supposed to be in them, as I found out when I returned home. Has anyone else here bought ammo that was supposed to be one thing and ended up being another? My ammo sources have been big name sporting stores and online big name suppliers.

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Cryogaijin
June 7, 2011, 03:29 AM
I recently bought a couple boxes of 12 gauge OO buck that was labeled 2 3/4th" but was actually 3"

doc2rn
June 7, 2011, 04:03 AM
Probably some unscrupulous store employee switching out with cheaper ammo

Apocalypse-Now
June 7, 2011, 04:05 AM
no. i check before i buy expensive ammo. just open the box and take a look.

Ramone
June 7, 2011, 09:08 AM
no. i check before i buy expensive ammo. just open the box and take a look.

This^

I am also checking that it's a full box, and nothing is obviously wrong with the ammo- At my LGS, the counter guys will usually check the boxes if the purchaser doesn't.

DCoke
June 7, 2011, 04:07 PM
I check the boxes when at the stores...it's the online purchases that arrive via the delivery service that I've gone on good faith and not checked...but no longer. I'm sure that even had I checked it would have appeared to be good ammo...only upon firing did I learn that wasn't the case with these soft primers.

Apocalypse-Now
June 7, 2011, 04:22 PM
^^when ordering online, buy quality from a reputable source, and you'll be fine :)

Trebor
June 7, 2011, 04:35 PM
Always check. I've seen mistakes in boxes before, enough to where I double check before loading a mag or rifle. It's even worse if you buy surplus ammo. Sometimes there is no telling what you'll actually get.

rcmodel
June 7, 2011, 04:50 PM
I have never had that happen, but I seldom if ever buy factory ammo.
I reload everything I shoot.

On the otherhand, I have seen the Walmart sporting goods department kids with several boxes of various ammo dumped out on the glass display case looking at it all with intense interest!

Got to really wonder if it all got put back in the boxs it came out of?

rc

The Lone Haranguer
June 7, 2011, 06:59 PM
I've gotten faulty ammo before, e.g., deformed cases, one cartridge with a primer upside down and so on. I think it a good idea to say, "I'm buying this ammo, but I want to inspect it first." This way you won't draw the ire of the store personnel for just opening and fondling the ammo (as I've seen many people do:rolleyes:).

Apocalypse-Now
June 7, 2011, 07:29 PM
"I'm buying this ammo, but I want to inspect it first." This way you won't draw the ire of the store personnel for just opening and fondling the ammo (as I've seen many people do).

you're shopping at the wrong stores.

The Lone Haranguer
June 7, 2011, 07:33 PM
What "wrong stores?" :confused: Anyone who puts the ammo out on a shelf?

clutch
June 7, 2011, 07:39 PM
My only experience with ammo that wasn't what it should be was a box of magtech .380, that had one round of .32 acp in it. It just happened that I was shooting over a cronograph and got a weird velocity number and followed by a ftf.

Pulling the mag out found a bulged casing stuck in the pistol. Evidently the extractor had a firm enough grip to fire the case that fed up though the mag.

I have no idea what happened between the maker and me. Magtech is normally good ammo and I still buy it when the price is right.

Clutch

rodregier
June 7, 2011, 08:02 PM
Anything w/o seals on open shelving is suspect. {sigh}

Owen
June 7, 2011, 08:12 PM
anything with an open box is impossible to sell.

CathyGo
June 8, 2011, 02:03 AM
I've seen people pretty much rip open a box to check it or "just see what bullets looked like". Extremely rude to the store that now has to either send the box back or eat the cost of it. So I can understand a store not wanting people opening boxes at random. I find it odd that the same people who want to open a box to check ammo and make sure it wasn't messed with have a problem with a store employee telling them not to in order to prevent people from screwing with the ammo.:rolleyes: Just take it up to the counter and open it in a non-destructive manner.

WardenWolf
June 8, 2011, 06:03 AM
Sounds like a customer pulled a fast one and you just happened to be the victim.

That said, Hornady DOES use some 3rd party cases. The 7.7 Jap ammo I bought for my Arisaka 99 had PPU-stamped (PRVI Partizan) cases.

effengee
June 8, 2011, 08:09 AM
I've never had this happen. I've gotten some semi-jacketed Russian ammo for my AK that looked like a three year old made the bullet in the dark and then loaded it into the cartridge with a sledgehammer. I just scraped the extra lead from the soft point on some and fired them downrange with no issues.

ALWAYS check your rounds as you load them into the firearm.

Apocalypse-Now
June 8, 2011, 08:22 AM
I've seen people pretty much rip open a box to check it or "just see what bullets looked like". Extremely rude to the store that now has to either send the box back

Most gunshops I've been to will simply open the box for you. No one's advising you to "rip" boxes of ammo open.

Tirod
June 8, 2011, 08:40 AM
Some customers lack the necessary interdigital skills to simply open a box by pulling the flap up. For some reason they think they should tear the side down to spill the contents all over the counter.

Double check the store's policy on accepting ammo returns - most don't, all sales are final. But there still could have been someone who simply switched ammo in the boxes and got a nice profit on the refund. They are unscrupulous thieves who could care less it's fraudulent or whether something blows up your gun - the dark side of the shooting community. All they care about is making a few bucks per box and sticking everyone else with the cost.

I get them in the auto parts store I work every week. Roughly 5% are outright dirtbags, and surprisingly, frequent shoppers.

Your fellow American citizen, is all.

sonofodin
June 9, 2011, 02:13 PM
wait for it....here it comes...SO I was at walmart buying ammo! I know I know..anyways, I asked to see a box of WWB 230 Grn JHP .45. on sale 50 a box. clerk opened it up and checked! Then came the federal 9mm, which he checked too. Then I asked if they had any .38 special on sale, and he said "oh I think we have some of that foreign stuff" and gets out a box of wolf .380. I'm like...Mr, Thats mighty short to be .38 spcl :D. his reply; "oh my heavens thats .380!!!"

Box of .45 JHP, $28.99
Box of Federal 9mm, $10.00
Look on face of clerk at .38spcl vs .380 acp : priceless!

MtnCreek
June 9, 2011, 02:29 PM
Thats mighty short to be .38 spcl . his reply; "oh my heavens thats .380!!!"
I'm suprised he knew the difference even after you called him out on it.

I've never checked the ammo out before purchase; maybe I should. I can't figure out why the Winchester cartridges would have caused problems. It was the correct cartridge type, wasn't it? I've loaded ammo with win small rifle primers (not 204) that I'm pretty sure went way beyond the pressures found in factory ammo w/o primer issues.

sonofodin
June 9, 2011, 02:55 PM
I think he knew the difference when he read the label :D

grubbylabs
June 9, 2011, 08:25 PM
I have found that most places will open almost any thing if I ask. Heck the sportsman's here even lets me thumb through the reloading manuals just because I ask instead of pealing the wrapper of it my self.

joeq
June 9, 2011, 08:47 PM
I open every box before I purchase it, but have never found anything major.

Alec
June 9, 2011, 10:40 PM
It's like buying eggs, folks. Ya gotta check 'em first!

ObsidianOne
June 9, 2011, 11:15 PM
Frightening. I know I'll certainly be checking my ammo in the future.

Gomezy3k
June 10, 2011, 04:31 PM
I had a sort of similar problem. I went to a gun show and bought a bag of .44-40 brass. I reloaded them and I noticed that every so often, maybe 4 times one would be hard to run through the press but not really anything to fuss about.

I went out to the local SASS match and right in the middle of a stage my .44-40 Brass framed Henry hung up. I had to quit and dig the round out since the nose was stuck in the chanber.

Got to looking and discovered that it was .44 Magnum brass. :what: I went through all my reloads and sure enough came up with 4 Magnum brass. Now I gotta figure out what to do with those .44-40 loaded .44 Mag brass... LOL

Now I make sure I check every one when I buy bulk brass.

buck460XVR
June 10, 2011, 07:48 PM
I too buy very little factory ammo anymore, but when I do, I open unsealed boxes and check the contents. Sealed boxes(like 100 count WWB .45ACP) I don't bother. My LGS has a sign stating it is a violation of federal law to accept ammo for returns, for this very reason.

PavePusher
June 11, 2011, 01:20 AM
That's a new one to me....:scrutiny:

Have you ever asked them to produce/quote said law?

PavePusher
June 11, 2011, 01:27 AM
What really gets my goat... is that every time I buy a spam-can of Russian, Yugo or Bulgarian surplus 7.62.... it's never, ever filled with some nice brass-cased, boxer-primed reloadable stuff. Ever.

Damn them and their quality control...

ripp
June 12, 2011, 03:25 PM
wow, you loaded the mags and didn't notice the diff between 380 and .32?

HGUNHNTR
June 12, 2011, 05:22 PM
Unfortunately though my experience running a gun shop I continuously noticed guys ripping boxes open, especially of very small, or very large calibers to show their buddies how big or small it was. I tell them they have a gun almost like the one of this caliber. It absulutely infuriated me, as it was nearly impossible to keep a box of Weatherby ammo out on the shelf without it being mutilated by disrespectful customers.

BIGGBAY90
June 12, 2011, 05:27 PM
So far never happen as yet

buck460XVR
June 12, 2011, 07:57 PM
That's a new one to me....:scrutiny:

Have you ever asked them to produce/quote said law?

This is the way it has been explained to me by my LGS......

There is a clause in the federal firearm law that says that a company may refuse to take back and give a refund for ammunition, due to the fact that a person can tamper with it, take it back to the store, and then the next person who buys it could end up getting their hand blown off because some guy thought it'd be fun to double-charge a cartridge.

Therefore, if a dealer takes it back, they cannot resell it (that IS federal law), they must have it destroyed.

Could he be BSin' me and other customers in order to protect his behind? Maybe, but he's also protectin' mine.

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