Guns & Ammo - .300 Whisper?


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Navy_Guns
June 7, 2011, 06:43 PM
Here's yet another article from G&A hyping something as "new & great" when it's certainly not. The ballistics they quote for the Hornady .300 Whisper ammo (110 gr. V-Max @ 2,288 fps, 208 gr. A-Max @ 923 fps) are supposed to be exciting? QuickLoad confirmed what I thought - you can do all that and more with the 7.62x39 cartridge. I'm feeling more and more like the $5 I spent for my G&A subscription would have been better spent on a McDonald's Happy Meal.

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Zak Smith
June 7, 2011, 07:02 PM
The benefit of .300 Whisper/Fireball/Blackout is that it works a lot better in an AR-15 than 7.62x39.

Navy_Guns
June 7, 2011, 07:36 PM
Okay, but if you have 7.62x39 brass, you can cover that entire performance range and then some with an SKS or AK platform. G&A tends to spin everything as the greatest thing since smokeless powder when a little homework will show that it's been done before, at least 5 times, by people who don't buy ad space.

Zak Smith
June 7, 2011, 07:56 PM
Did SSK buy ad space?

Jim Watson
June 7, 2011, 08:11 PM
Well, you could cover the weight-velocity range with an SKS or AK but you would be hard pressed to equal the accuracy of a Whisper or copy out of an AR.

A guy on one of the other boards reports good shooting with subsonic 7.62 AK in one of those CZ bolt actions, though.

Owen
June 7, 2011, 08:16 PM
the .300 whisper is really for shooting 200 and 220 grain bullets from an AR-15 platform.

And if Hornady is selling factory loads for it, that is news. the cartridge itself is about 15 years old, IIRC, and I'm not sure than anyone has ever manufactured ammo for it on a commercial scale.

It's not the ballistics that's exciting, its the packaging. I assume this is an effort to cut into the .300 blackout market, and maybe get JD Jones some of the royalties he deserves.

Navy_Guns
June 7, 2011, 08:25 PM
No, SSK was only mentioned by name twice in the article. Hornady got 8 name drops in the article, one on the cover, and 4 boxes of ammo prominently positioned in photos in the article. I'm not bashing Hornady, J.D. Jones, or the .300 Whisper - I was just commenting that the G&A adicle makes this sound like a breakthrough in rifle ballistics when it's not. I mentioned the 7.62x39 as just one example that has more ballistic versatility than what's advertised for Hornady's Whisper ammo, but you could probably do the same ballistics in numerous other cartridges and platforms. I find it disappointing that the magazine doesn't attempt to consider this point because they wouldn't want to poison the well with their advertisers.

TexasPatriot.308
June 7, 2011, 08:39 PM
the 300 whisper in an AR platform.....good luck finding the ammo when the SHTF....stick to more common sense available ARs unless you got lots of money to burn on a rifle that will pretty much be useless to you. mags like G&A make their money off advertising so they will give good reviews to good clients.

Owen
June 7, 2011, 08:41 PM
good thing guns have other uses than SHTF.

TexasPatriot.308
June 7, 2011, 10:22 PM
well if and when the SHTF and you spent all your money on this one rifle, it will be an expensive club.

Coltdriver
June 7, 2011, 10:31 PM
Well if 300 Whisper ticks you off your gonna really howl when you read about the 300 BLK.

Thats the SAMMI spec'd version of the 300 whisper.

The cool thing about this cartridge to me is that you can match AK47 performance on about 18 grains of powder. That stretches a pound of powder nicely.

Or you can launch supressed 240 grain smks out a 1000 yards and the percent of velocity they retain on impact is just impressive.

Several manufacturers are coming out with 300 Blackout in the 110 to 129 grain range soon.

Didn't mean to aggravate you:neener:

SharpsDressedMan
June 7, 2011, 10:39 PM
I shoot .300 Whisper, load my own, and when the SHTF scenarios develope, I'll have enough. Readiness is about planning, not cartridge or caliber.

highlander 5
June 7, 2011, 10:46 PM
I was looking into an AR in 7.62x39 but all that I talked to said getting it to be reliable was a horror show. Plus I live in a state where I'm restricted to 10 rd mags. Can't say I've seen loads for the 7.62x39 with more than a 150gr bullet.
I have an upper in 300 Blackout and so far it's worked out well. I've put only 150 or so rounds thru it and it has been reliable to a fault and I can use my AR mags in it. 20 rds have been Remington factory 220 gr subsonic and with earplugs in and no suppressor all I can hear is the bolt moving back and forth. I've made 1500 cases out of 223 brass,took about a week but I got it done. The only modifications I made was an H2 buffer and a Wolff XP recoil spring as the case rims were getting mangled and brass was thrown quite a distance. CorBon has been making 300 Whisper ammo for several years now IIRC. Oh the 300 uses a .308 bullet and you can always find them as opposed to the .311 bullet of the 7.62x39.

VA27
June 7, 2011, 10:56 PM
300 Whisper as a FACTORY offering is the story.

benzy2
June 8, 2011, 12:35 AM
Are these loaded in standard AR mags to full mag capacity? I've got a spare lower I've been looking at playing with, and have been thinking something different would be fun. Saw a well priced .300blk upper and think it would make a good fit between going all nuts with the .45"+ uppers while still being a little more than a standard .223.

451 Detonics
June 8, 2011, 08:25 AM
the cartridge itself is about 15 years old, IIRC

The 300 Whisper is about 20 years old actually, I started shooting mine soon after JD developed his round. It was designed from the start to launch a heavy (200-240gr) bullet at sub sonic speeds for use through a suppressor. All that is required to change a standard AR in .223/5.56X45 to the 300 Whisper is a barrel change. It uses the same mags and bolt.

As for folks who think they will be able to scavenge ammo if the shtf all I can say is you need to stop dreaming and start stocking up...what you have on hand will likely be all you will ever have in any caliber. Learn to reload and stock up components as well.

earlthegoat2
June 8, 2011, 08:46 AM
another flash in the pan for the ever expanding list of cartridges that never had a chance but thanks to magazine articles they thought they just might until they died.

Nothing new here in the cartridge or the story.

Tirod
June 8, 2011, 10:04 AM
well if and when the SHTF and you spent all your money on this one rifle, it will be an expensive club.

Well, the SHTF in Joplin, MO, we haven't even cleaned up yet, and guess what, a backhoe is a lot more valuable than some rifle. There has not been one reported incident of gunfire - despite the looters and scam artists flocking in.

Fantasy gamer expectations are hilarious in the face of reality. At least the flooding on the Mississippi and Missouri gives people enough warning to move out.

G&A - just got the latest "Book of the AR-15" and it follows along with the OP's intent. Overstatement and exaggeration are stock items in the writer's trade there. The reprints of articles first published in the early 60's about the new wonderweapon are particularly interesting. The format! hasn't! changed! in! over! 45! years!

If anything, it's a complete sellout to piston makers, and as such, you wonder why. Are shooters not lining up to get them? Considering the prices, it's possible the market with that much discretionary income to blow on a recreational gun is finally saturated.

After all, nobody uses them much for SHTF - likely they grab a Glock and a flashlight to see which raccoon is rolling the grille off the deck. More likely to need a Grease Hits The Deck gun, or Raccoon Reproductive Reorientator.

If you haven't been out of your Mom's basement yet this week, can I recommend some Vitamin D absorption? An afternoon spent piling rafters and joists at the curb with 8,000 other former homeowners in town does wonders for understanding REAL life.

GCBurner
June 8, 2011, 10:15 AM
I've already got an AR-15 in 7.62x39mm calibre, but I hadn't thought about loading it up with 180-200 grain subsonic loads. I don't think I've seen any loads published anywhere for bullets in that range to match the .300 Whisper, has anybody else? In the G&A article, it talks about having to adjust the size of the gas port to cycle reliably with heavy bullets and high vs low velocity loads, so that would seem to be the sticking point for a semi-auto rifle like the AR-15 or the Ruger Mini30.

highlander 5
June 8, 2011, 12:30 PM
My upper is a standard non adjustable gas port made by Noveske and has functioned with both handloads of various bullet weights and factory loads. No offense to Mr Jones but the prices he wants for his upper are out of my price line.

Owen Sparks
June 8, 2011, 02:56 PM
In an apples to apples comparison the 6.8 will out preform it with 110 grain bullets.

cougar1717
June 8, 2011, 05:00 PM
Wow. This thread has got it all: misunderstanding of the OP's thesis, unrequested advice, off topic caliber comparison, a little trash talk, and some accused trollage. Guess the only thing left to do is go shoot some subsonic ammo at 1000yds before this thing gets locked up!

SharpsDressedMan
June 8, 2011, 06:20 PM
You are absulutely right. I'd go with the happy meal, but restaurant recommendations are off topic here at high road...............

wally
June 8, 2011, 06:51 PM
If you don't like it don't buy it, but I enjoy reading about the ideas and interests of others despite how hair-brained and useless the concept may seem to me.

Durty
June 8, 2011, 08:22 PM
I'm feeling more and more like the $5 I spent for my G&A subscription would have been better spent on a McDonald's Happy Meal. LOL.

Owen
June 8, 2011, 08:29 PM
On the subject of gun magazines, about all I read are American Rifleman, Front Sight, and Shotgun News

Navy_Guns
June 8, 2011, 08:44 PM
Looks like the crowd is split - some recognize my irritation at the "gun rags" for mostly speaking for the paying customer, some would brand me as a heretic for having expectations that standards of journalism would carry over to "gun rags". I guess I'll shut up now and go out back and try out my new PMR-30. :D

wally
June 8, 2011, 09:02 PM
I guess I'll shut up now and go out back and try out my new PMR-30.

How much did that PMR-30 set you back? I saw several at last week's gun show, but at the $500 asking prices I've no interest. I'd probably bite at $300-350.

Jaybird78
June 9, 2011, 07:43 PM
Dang! Looks like I overspent for my subscription. They knocked it down to $10. I didn't wait long enough, I had all that dinero burning a hole in my pocket. :D

Those mags are just a form of entertainment. Good luck.

rsilvers
June 14, 2011, 10:35 PM
I agree the article could have been a lot more. If the goal is to inform readers and help Hornady sell ammo, then the biggest oversight was not mentioning that it works in 300 AAC BLACKOUT guns. There are about 30 companies making blackout guns or barrels.

Gemtech demoed their can on a 300 AAC BLACKOUT upper at the Indiana Hush shoot:

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=276&idcategory=11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZv1VXh9rTU&feature=player_embedded

They shot Hornady 300 Whisper(R) ammo in the 300 BLK upper.

rsilvers
June 20, 2011, 01:29 AM
Here is an FAQ I am working on:

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73274

dawico
June 20, 2011, 03:18 AM
You can do what the .300 Whisper does with 7.62x39 or other calibers, if you handload. I haven't seen any sub-sonic 7.62x39 factory ammo though. The factory offering of ammo is the key to the story.

I will agree though, the magazine is slipping.

451 Detonics
June 20, 2011, 06:40 AM
I have yet to see the 7.62X39 equal the accuracy of my 300 Whisper in any firearm platform or bullet weight. Just because you can duplicate the velocities does not mean the cartridge does the same job as well. The G&A article was more about the round becoming a factory produced round than anything else...after all the magazine's name is Guns and Ammo.

rsilvers
June 25, 2011, 09:37 PM
If you made a subsonic 7.62x39mm, you would have to do a custom twist barrel. You would have to use 0.311 bullets - of which there are few. You would still have the problem of it not working in an AR magazine and with a fragile bolt. And the case capacity is larger, so you would have to download supersonic if you wanted any chance of it not hypercycling the gun (after the gas port was set to run the subsonic).

hardluk1
June 26, 2011, 10:03 AM
I'll stay with a 308. One thing I do know, no barrel is going to shoot both a 110 or 120 gr bullet and a 220 gr bullet and do both well. Lets throw another 30 into the mix the lowly rem 30 they made up for the ar. Arrrrrggg To much new junk that really does not improve anything that has not been done before.

rsilvers
June 26, 2011, 10:08 AM
It shoots 110 and 220 both well.

It improves on what has been done before. Name one cartridge which can be used instead of 300 AAC BLACKOUT and I will tell you what 300 AAC BLACKOUT does better.

hardluk1
June 26, 2011, 08:14 PM
Its just another cartridge, maybe its the cats butt for 30's of standard ars world but not in the rest of the shooting world.

rsilvers
June 26, 2011, 08:28 PM
Yes, it is made for ARs. It will not impress fudds at all.

SharpsDressedMan
June 26, 2011, 08:30 PM
As far as shooting 125 Ballistic Tip and 220gr. bullets well, a 1-8" twist Douglas barrel did some fine shooting with a 16.5" Remington 700 in .300 Whisper. The 125's were printing under an inch, and the 220's wouild do as good as I could load them (loading pistol charges and expecting subminute @100 yards is often claimed, but I personally don't see it too much). Too many variables with the burn/volume/velocity fluctuations. However, having subsonic and suppressed 220's packing more punch at 400 yards than a .45acp does at the muzzle is nothing to snear at.

rsilvers
June 26, 2011, 08:35 PM
We did 110 grain bullets, the shortest we could find - and 50 rounds (10 groups, 5 shots each) averaged 0.85 inches at 100 yards. Every shot was counted.

Lots of people 'know' that faster twists does not work with short/light bullets, but we tried it, and they work well.

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