Hey, I need opinions on these cheap guns.


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bcp280z
June 7, 2011, 08:40 PM
So today I went to some gun shops I've yet to goto in my area, >40mi way because I couldn't find what I want in more local stores. One of them I felt good, some guys were handling a G21SF and couldn't understand why the grip was thinner, neither did the shop keep, made me happy explaining stuff to them, better than most stores that treat me rudely for being young.

Anyway, I'm currently interested in fun guns in 32,9, and 38, and under $300

They had a S&W M&P 38, looked old, like 70's or more, want to say 4in barrel for $289

And a FEG Hi Power clone, but it seemed small, compact, not full size. Felt fine, came with one hi cap mag, no one knew capacity, and it was SA only. $299

Next store had a CZ 70 for $289 a Tokegypt in 9mm which was fatter than this other Yugo Tokarev, both were $299

So I know the 38 would be the most reliable, less parts to go wrong + S&W

But the autos felt good, finish was worn but no rust, they were older/used. And I'm interested in 32acp, never shot one, but the posts yall make em sound fun.

Can the 7.62 x 25 Tok eat 32acp? what about the CZ-70 And is the 9mm Tokegypt any good? Which Tok is better (higher quality/more reliable/easier to repair/find parts)

Does the collective knowledge base here have first hand experience with any?

And what's the difference in the Toks from various countries, quality? or diff parts?

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kozak6
June 7, 2011, 10:09 PM
.32 acp and 7.62x25 are in no way interchangeable.

The Tokegypt is very poorly regarded and should be avoided.

Guillermo
June 7, 2011, 10:12 PM
Not even a choice!!!

M&P 38 is a great gun and by far the best gun on the list

And that is a really good price

bcp280z
June 7, 2011, 10:21 PM
Bummer on the Tokegypt, I don't think you can get tokarev ammo in stores..

The FEG HP clone kinda intrigues me, any info on that?

otherwise yeah looks like i'll get that 38 if the HP's a dud

Shadow 7D
June 8, 2011, 05:21 AM
HUH
really My understanding is that the TokEgypt is one of the MORE collectable variations of the Tokarev

As for interchangeability, YES, WITH AN ADAPTER, you can shoot .32 in a Tok chamber, but it's a WHY, even NEW ammo in Tok is cheaper than .32

look at a EAA/Zastava M88
or any of the cheapy tanfoglio type .32/.22 imported pocket guns, there are a number of names/brands they came in under. The CZ's and the FEGs are quality guns all the way.
The FEG, is a straight clone, with almost 100% interchangeability (I think) also the Argentinian FM's too, except for certain commercial series.

Paladin38-40
June 8, 2011, 07:17 AM
.32 ACP ammo is scarce and expensive compared to .38 special and 9mm.

The S&W revolver excels for your purpose and if in excellent condition the price of right.

mgmorden
June 8, 2011, 09:01 AM
Bummer on the Tokegypt, I don't think you can get tokarev ammo in stores..

In your local department store? Nope. In gun stores yes, but it's sometimes priced a bit higher. If you mail order your ammo 7.62x25 is about the same cost as .32ACP.

I know that's not what you want to hear (because there is some advantage to having quick ammo available - that's why I still prefer a gun in .380 over 9mm Makarov, though those are much closer in power), but it's not as if you wouldn't be able to shoot the gun at all.

wally
June 8, 2011, 10:13 AM
With the FEG HiPower clone the devil is in the details. The true clone without the top rail is generally fine, although out of the box mine had a very heavy trigger. But for that price I'd save a little more and look for an FN HiPower (not to be confused with the FM HiPower which like the FEG is generally OK)

jonnyc
June 8, 2011, 10:17 AM
1. Wally is correct. If a true HP clone, great pistol.
2. Tokagypt should be in 9mmP, not 7.62 Tokarev.
3. They're all good pistols, and for $300 or less each, get them all.

REAPER4206969
June 8, 2011, 11:55 AM
The CZ-70 is a superb pistol; and yes, it is chambered for .32 ACP.

Cdigman
June 8, 2011, 12:30 PM
May I recommend a CZ-82, chambered in 9mm Makarov, I think very highly of them, and would be well under the cost of those other firearms you are considering. Widener's has them for $200 including shipping, you just have to pay for the FFL transfer/background check. http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000116&dir=700|1012|1027 And if your heart is set on a 7.62x25 pistol, they also have the Yugoslavian M57 for $220. http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000100&dir=700|1012|1027

Cards81fan
June 8, 2011, 12:50 PM
Of those listed, I would go with the Hi Power "clone." It is 9mm. I know you can order in ammunition, but I like something I can find local, and cheap.


I know your limit shows under $300, but this is a smokin' deal on a great proven pistol:

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000269&dir=700|1012|1026

Nushif
June 8, 2011, 12:55 PM
I'd get the Tokagypt or the compacty HP. But that's me.

aminyard
June 8, 2011, 02:10 PM
The S&W is the only quality, reliable weapon on your list.

REAPER4206969
June 8, 2011, 02:26 PM
To suggest that a CZ is not quality or reliable is ill-informed.

bcp280z
June 8, 2011, 02:40 PM
I'm well informed on the CZ82 and CZ75, seems my LGS's like to jack up prices since they're popular at the moment.

I know the Smith will give me no problems, it would be my 4th S&W, but the autos just have that allure. I'll probably end up getting the FEG and the Smith, but anyone have good thoughts aside from collector value on the Tok in 9?

Good to know you can get the Tok rounds in gun shops, never really looked, the guns draw me to themselves instead. If 32's more expensive I'll back off for now.

The Tokagypt is fine? I mean it looks "cooler" than the FEG

bcp280z
June 8, 2011, 02:41 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=234212120

thats what the Smith looks like and this is what the FEG looks like

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=234120466

The Tokegypt is bulkier than the Tok in 7.62x25

Nushif
June 8, 2011, 02:48 PM
Sounds like you're not so much interested in Fun Guns, tbh.

Why are you going with an "old reliable" in that case? I thought I read in your thread you were looking for fun and cheap guns. And frankly I fail to see where a 70s run of the mill revolver fits that specific criteria.

Any of the others are more exciting, more of a challenge and less common.
My vote goes for an oddball BHP or a Tok knockoff for fun.

If you want "just" another gun, go ahead and get the Smith ... But I guess your and my idea of fun are different then. 8)

rellascout
June 8, 2011, 03:09 PM
SOG has FEG clones for $250. Not in this shape I am sure but they are the true BHP clones not the S&W hybrid.

http://www.icollector.com/images/1206/17270/17270_0329_1_lg.jpg

bcp280z
June 8, 2011, 04:58 PM
Well, all guns are fun ;)

But yes, I was trying to dig positive feedback for the Tok's and HP clone, they have that cool allure of automatics, but then again I'd like something more fun than my J frame in 38.

Everyone's cool with the HP clone it seems, anybody care to elaborate on the poorly regarded Tokegypt?

il_10
June 8, 2011, 07:23 PM
Be careful buying the FEG hi-power; if it's the actual hi-power clone, it'll be a great gun, but they also made one that looks similar, but isn't related.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=289123 has pictures of both.

My vote is for that, if it's indeed a hi-power clone. The S&W will be a great, reliable .38, and that's a good price for m&p / model 10, depending on condition of course.

I'd shy away from the cz, just because it's in .32, if defense is a concern. I've sometimes been known to carry a little .25 beretta for deep concealment, but the cz70 isn't a particularly small or light gun, and it's pretty big for the caliber.

(edited out for bad info. Disregard. Sorry about that and thanks to Shadow 7D for the good info and correction.)


The cz82 is a fantastic firearm if you can find one at a reasonable price, and new production ammo from silver and brown bear is about as cheap as centerfire ammo comes if you order online. There is, though, limited availability on ammo in stores, and it's typically overpriced by about 100%.

Shadow 7D
June 8, 2011, 08:25 PM
OK
LETS MAKE THIS CLEAR
TokEGYPT = 9 MM Hungarian M48 (FEG?) with a slide mounted safety and certain other features.
NOT in 7.62 Tok

Everybody is going to say that some pistols are junk, I think Kimbers are trash, for that money I want it to work BETTER than a Hi Point Out of the BOX

With a used gun it all depends on condition.
handle some, find what you like, and get it,

the CZ82 is fine, if not the BEST VALUE gun for the money right now,
and MANY European and *gasp* Chinese or even PHILIPPINE guns are as good as US made trash... er. quality HIGH priced guns...

Find what you like, if you want to save money, get a 9mm or 9Mak, little guns are fine

And in the END, I would suggest that you get a 9mm Tok or a 9mak, these are cool guns, all steel with a history behind them, and you can get 2 and still in in your budget.

bcp280z
June 8, 2011, 10:11 PM
Thanks for the last two, informative posts. I'm going to borrow my friends BHP mag to see if it's a "good" clone or not.

I checked some LGS's and they have some Sellor&Bellot 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo for $16 for 50 so cheaper than 9mm para and .40. So If the HP clone doesnt work out I think I'll pick up one of the Tok's.

Main reason for not getting a CZ82, priced at $319 in local store, I'm looking for bigger size guns for woods/range use, already have SD/HD covered, I just want cheap fun.

Thanks again for the advice, I try to get all the info one things rather than impulse buy.

il_10
June 9, 2011, 01:48 AM
For woods, the .38 is going to treat you really well. The added benefit of shot-shells that won't short stroke an auto is a really nice feature to have.

RugerMcMarlin
June 9, 2011, 03:08 AM
.38 Smith & Wesson 1st , FEG Hipower 2nd, tokarevs and tokagypt pistols work
FEGs are a great buy. CZ70 good too.

Dr.Rob
June 11, 2011, 02:40 AM
If the FEG clone has the triangle shaped cut in the slide as pictured it's a later cost-saving version and not a 'true' clone. FEG made several variations of the HP, one of the best was marketed by Charles Daly, another branded as the Mauser SA-80.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=263166&highlight=FEG

The "Kareen" 9mm available at SOG is a true clone made in Israel.

AZ Hawkeye
June 11, 2011, 02:51 AM
The M&P .38 is an excellent choice.

psyshack
June 11, 2011, 08:30 AM
The M&P hands down.

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