25 Cal Enthusiasts


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Craiger12
June 8, 2011, 10:16 PM
I'm wondering what the great appeal is of the 25 cal bullets for hunters? From what I have read, it seems that everyone who owns a 25-06 or a 257 Roberts absolutely loves it. However, from comparing balistics, I just don't see what is so great about the 25 cal bullets when compared to the heavier 6mm rounds. I do not want to come of as critical, just looking for some opinions, as I have no experience with them myself. What are your thoughts?

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supercalvin56
June 8, 2011, 11:27 PM
I like the 257 because it offers the shooter the perfect range of bullets (75-120)....not too much recoil but not too small for big game hunting.

MachIVshooter
June 9, 2011, 01:26 AM
I just don't see what is so great about the 25 cal bullets when compared to the heavier 6mm rounds.

You mean 6.5?

Quarterbores have been around in the US a lot longer that 6.5's, so that's part of it.

Remington had introduced the 6.5mm Rem Mag, and Winchester the .264 Win Mag, both of which had lackluster sales and are presently semi-obsolete, despite numerous attempts at revival. They both barked quite a lot, too.

The .260 Rem has faired a little better, but still not a sales leader. If I'm not mistaken, the .25-06 leads it by a rather large margin. This is due in no small part to the fact that the .25-06 simply has more potential due to the larger case.

The 6.5mm Swede has always had some following here, and is a good performer, but has not been chambered by US gunmakers on a large scale.

There are a number of 6.5's in the target world, but these are specialty cartridges, many of them proprietary or totally wildcat.

There are others, like the 6.5 Mauser, 6.5 Carcano, 6.5 Jap, 6.5 Mannlicher, etc., but they have never been picked up by a sporting rifle manufacturer over here.

The appeal of the quarterbores, especially the .25-06, is a flat shooting, fairly hard hitting cartridge that has moderate recoil. The Bob isn't too far behind the '06, the Weatherby just a little ahead. I would wager, though, that the .25-06 accounts for more rifle and ammo sales than all other .25's combined.

I personally love the .25-06, was my first rifle that I bought. I use mine for everything from varmints to elk. It's a great round.

Craiger12
June 9, 2011, 01:41 AM
I was actually referring to the heavier .243 offerings. The 6.5mm rounds far exceed those in .257 ballistically.

mr.trooper
June 9, 2011, 01:58 AM
Plug the numbers for a 257 Weatherby (100gr @ 3600fps) into the trajectory and recoil calculators.

If you do, you will see a cartridge with equivalent recoil to a standard 30-06, yet with a maximum 'point blank range' of 337 yards - equivalent to a 300 Ultra Mag with 150gr pills.

The 25-06 isn't far behind that.

As much as I LOVE the 6.5x55 Swede, it just cant touch those numbers. The BC's for the 26 cals may be a bit higher, but it's not enough to make up the gap in velocity compared to the more powerful 25's until you are WAY out there on the range. The 260 Rem is in the same boat.

MachIVshooter
June 9, 2011, 01:59 AM
I was actually referring to the heavier .243 offerings. The 6.5mm rounds far exceed those in .257 ballistically.

Even the 6mm Rem (same 57mm Mauser case as the Roberts) is significantly behind the .25-06 and .257 Weatherby. And of currently offered 6.5's in the US (namely 6.5x55 and .260 Rem), none can put more energy downrange than the two bigger quarterbores until you get further out and the higher BC's come into play. We're talking 400 yards and further. The 117 and 120 gr. .257" bullets don't exactly have bad BC's, and they start out at well over 3,000 FPS from either cartridge (my hunting load with .25-06 is 3,227 FPS with a 117 Sierra)

Or are you strictly talking SD and BC of the bullets? A 105 gr. .244" is pretty close to a 117 gr. .257 and to a 130 gr. 6.5mm. Those are the top bullet weights for hunting rounds in the 6mm and .257 caliber. The heavier 6.5mm bullets do have advantages.

That said, there are heavy-for-caliber match bullets for all three diameters that have some pretty ridiculous numbers.

jmabbott888@aol.com
June 9, 2011, 03:49 AM
First centerfire rifle I got was a Savage 99 in 250-3000 Savage. I still own that rifle & love it. I have had 243's & own a 6.5 Swed but I sold the 243's simply because I could do everything I wanted with the 250 that the 243 would do, if I needed faster rounds I'd go to a different caliber, If I need a larger caliber I can go to that too. FOr varmint hunting & teaching people to shoot with a light recoiling accurate rifle the little Savage can't be beat.

68wj
June 9, 2011, 11:38 AM
Quarter-bores are enjoyed due to stubborness and the lack of a Communist metric conspiracy. ;)

Flatbush Harry
June 9, 2011, 12:03 PM
I happen to really like my 6.3mm rifle for coyotes and antelope.

FH, metric guy

michael5446
June 9, 2011, 05:21 PM
if you can, find a buddy with a quarter bore and hunt or target practice with it...have a 25-06 and from what i have experienced over the years, well umm.. i will never part with it...

joed
June 9, 2011, 07:38 PM
I've had the pleasure of owning a Rem 700 VS in .25-06 that I bought in 1977. I wouldn't part with it.

It's on its second barrel now and has only gotten better. When it was time to rebarrel I thought about another choice of cartridge for about 1/10000 of a second. Nope, it's still a .25-06.

Loaded with 87 gr bullets it is a spectacular long range varminter at ranges that are unreal. I use it mostly for groundhog hunting, if I can see one I can hit it no matter how far. Mine will move that 87 gr bullet over 3600 fps using RL17, that's cooking! The energy behind that bullet hits harder then you can imagine usually sending a groundhog airborne.

Load the same with 100 gr bullets and you have a good all around rifle for anything up to deer. Move up to the 120 gr bullet and it will take any medium size game at long range.

I've hunted with friends that have 6mm, they just don't compare in my opinion. With the heavier bullets the .25 just does better.

Heck, I even took my rifle to Canada and went bear hunting with it. I wouldn't attempt that with a 6mm.

Recoil is quite tame with light bullets and isn't bad with the heavy stuff. It is a dual purpose rifle that can go varmint hunting or be used on medium sized game. What's not to like?

When I bought that rifle I got into reloading quickly. Ammo wasn't plentiful but could be purchased in any gun store. I didn't think the 06 would be popular, but here we are 34 years later and you can get ammo in Walmart. That tells me a lot of people think the same thing about the .25 cal. The .25-06 has also overshadowed the 6mm Remington, look at how many rifles Remington has that are available in 6mm Rem.

Dr T
June 9, 2011, 08:09 PM
I have been meaning to add a .25 to my collection for years. I just haven't gotten around to it. My brother has a 25-06 and his wife has a 257 Roberts, so I don't want either just for the sake of being different. That pretty much leaves the 257 Weatherby (too overbore) and the 250 Savage.

The 250 Savage would be an excellent choice, I just haven't found a new one I really like. There is also an Aussie wildcat, essentially a .25-08 (with a name like 250 Humdinger) that is appealing, but I would have to have built. It would be a good candidate for standardization by one of the majors.

GooseGestapo
June 9, 2011, 09:10 PM
In regards to the posters original query, the biggest difference in the .243" and .257" lies in the bullet construction.

Given two bullets of equal sectional density or weight, and, use of identical materials, the .257" bullets will have a greater surface area of contact with the jacket to core with significantly greater friction and "locking" surfaces. This equates into a more dependable expansion without the shedding of the core, and the larger displacement of wound cavity developed by the .25's, the advantage goes to the .25" bullets. The developement of the 6mm's didn't occur till after better bullets were possible and available due to improvements in metallurgy and manufacturing techniques.

No one ever said that the .24's performed better on game the size of deer. It was the higher ballistic coefficients of the lighter bullets that gave the .24's the advantage at longer distances for varmint shooting that gave way to their surge in popularity following their subsequent release in the 1950's. Marketing and sales of new rifles being the goal of the rifle manufacturers, the .24's were an "open" market. After all, why did we "need" all the profliferation of the "short" magnums. Most of which are already being discontinued ?????

JimKirk
June 9, 2011, 09:21 PM
The 25-308 wildcat has been around for years as the 25 Souper... too bad some of the big guys have not picked it up as a factory round. I would not mind having one in a short action 700 in a light weight stock. That would be a fine set up.

Having said that ... I've owned two 25/06 rifles... a Win 70 and a Browning Abolt. I got my 25/06 in late 1969. At that time .25 caliber was the largest legal caliber for wild hogs... yes we had hogs back then...still do... just more of them now! Some of the above posters have already told the good use of the 25/06...from small to medium game.

Jimmy K

68wj
June 9, 2011, 10:36 PM
Who wouldn't want a .256 Win Mag?!!! :neener:

Sooner1911
June 9, 2011, 11:05 PM
The twist in my 6PPC and .243 is not designed for the 100 grain bullets. In my mind, they are strictly varmint/target guns. My 25-06 could be used for varmints, but would be a bot of overkill. Not that overkill can't be fun sometimes. However, the 25-06 is my go to deer rifle. That is what I bought it for and that is what it excels at.

Joe Vaquero
June 10, 2011, 12:19 AM
I'm not sure why they are so loved either. But I traded for an M77 MKII stainless 25-06 with the boat-paddle stock and I'm gonna find out what all the hype is about when deer season gets here. I do know that I thoroughly enjoy shooting it :D

BrocLuno
June 10, 2011, 04:16 AM
Sold my .257 Bob and am moving on to 6.5x55. Wasn't bad, just could do more with other calibers. But I have the option of a couple of rifles (:)), so I'm not looking for a "do-all". If I was, I might be looking at a 25-06?

RickMD
June 10, 2011, 09:02 AM
My favorite rifle is a custom '03 Springfield chambered for the .257 Ackley Improved (40 degree) with a Shillen premium grade barrel. It goes 20 loadings without any case stretching and nearly duplicates 25-06 velocities with less powder. The advantage over the other 25 caliber wildcats is that you can fire standard .257 Roberts factory ammunition with minimal velocity loss.

joed
June 10, 2011, 12:07 PM
The only complaint I've ever had about the .257 cal is bullets. Back when I first purchased my .25-06 there weren't a lot of bullets with a high bc. There were bullets with decent bc's but none great.

That has changed in recent years. Sierra just came out with a 90 gr .257 bullet with a bc of .388 and I have some Bergers that I believe have a bc close to .500.

It's about time the bullet makers started making decent .25 cal offerings, it's what this caliber needed.

Craiger12
June 10, 2011, 09:13 PM
This is what I was getting at in my original post. At least with regards to factory loads, the BCs seem to be relatively low compared to the heavier 6mm and any 6.5mm or higher offering.

Craiger12
June 10, 2011, 09:15 PM
However, MachIVshooter made some very good points in post #6.

joed
June 12, 2011, 03:33 PM
This is what I was getting at in my original post. At least with regards to factory loads, the BCs seem to be relatively low compared to the heavier 6mm and any 6.5mm or higher offering.

I don't think you can say the above anymore, there are some pretty decent bullets for .25 cal. The bc of most .25 cal bullets are on par with those for 6mm unless you're talking match bullets.

But, I'm a hunter and not a target shooter. On that note I don't compare match bullets which in my opinion don't belong in a hunting environment. I'm old-school and believe that a bullet is designed for a specific purpose.

One of the things that I like about the .25 is that it hasn't been embraced by the match crowd. At present it's a hunting caliber, and it excels at that.

Eb1
June 12, 2011, 07:02 PM
Seems I have typed this a lot over the last few days. Using the coated Nosler BT out of my .25-06 I have put two deer down so far @ 300 yards, and a buddy put one down @ 110 yards.

I have shot a lot of deer. Mostly with the 30-30, but I had a chance to choose between a Marlin bolt in .243 or .25-06. I choose the .25-06 because I knew it would be the best whitetail gun I had ever owned. It has proven me right so far.

jfrey
June 12, 2011, 07:22 PM
Years ago I had A .244 Rem (pre 6mm Rem) and I never got a deer with it that I didn't have to shoot 2 or 3 times to keep it on the ground. Have friends who have experienced the same thing with the .243 Win. That said, I have never had to shoot a deer more than once with my .257 Roberts to anchor it. I got rid of the .244 and got a 30-06 but that was too much for South Texas deer and I found the Roberts to be the right combination for me. I can also push the 75 gr. V-max bullet at 3500fps and it does a number on varmits. With the right bullets, I can do everything with a 220 Swift you can do with a .243.

bangaway
June 13, 2011, 03:05 AM
I have shot 30 deer with a custom 28 inch 25-06 with a sierra 100 gr. spitzer flatbase at 3502 chronoed. Every animal was found, where hit, laying on its back with three or four legs wiggling in the air. No bullet was ever recovered even when I hit two deer with one bullet. Did this twice. Closest shot was 40 yards and 65 yards the first time I got two mule deer with one bullet. Blew the far shoulder out of both animals. Farthest was 660 yards on four point muley and his legs wiggled in the air like the rest. I loaded 243s for friends with 85/87 gr. heads and they had one shot kills out to 300 + yards. Some of these deer ran some. The deer over 300 yds some times needed two shots and ran some. My friends did not want 100 gr. heads as factory 100 gr. failed them. I shoot the same load at varmits. This keeps my deer hunting eye sharp. The 25-06 is fun to shoot. I like it alot. I hope this field data helps you. Have fun and bangaway.

Smokey in PHX
June 13, 2011, 03:20 AM
Shooting the Savage 99 in 250-3000 will make anyone a believer in quarter bores.

SwampWolf
June 14, 2011, 01:27 PM
Years ago I had A .244 Rem (pre 6mm Rem) and I never got a deer with it that I didn't have to shoot 2 or 3 times to keep it on the ground. Have friends who have experienced the same thing with the .243 Win. That said, I have never had to shoot a deer more than once with my .257 Roberts to anchor it.

As much as I like my quarter bore rifles (a .257 Roberts and a .257 Weatherby), I find it hard to believe that, everything else being equal in terms of bullet design, range and location of the hit, a .243/.244 cartridge won't do everything a .25 caliber cartridge will with any deer-size game.

kaferhaus
November 1, 2011, 06:39 PM
As much as I like my quarter bore rifles (a .257 Roberts and a .257 Weatherby), I find it hard to believe that, everything else being equal in terms of bullet design, range and location of the hit, a .243/.244 cartridge won't do everything a .25 caliber cartridge will with any deer-size game.

Of course it will. Displacement is no substitute for placement.

I giggle every time I see a deer hunter toting a 7Mag or larger..... I don't care what range he thinks he's going to shoot. All that tells me is the guy is likely a poor shot as most hunters are.

303tom
November 1, 2011, 10:39 PM
Of course it will. Displacement is no substitute for placement.

I giggle every time I see a deer hunter toting a 7Mag or larger..... I don't care what range he thinks he's going to shoot. All that tells me is the guy is likely a poor shot as most hunters are.
You guys are right there, I have a .243 Win. a .257 Rob. a .25-06 a 6.5x55 Swede & several others, which one do I take deer hunting mostly, my .308 Win.

Eb1
November 2, 2011, 01:23 AM
Or the guy with a 7mm Magnum likes his rifle, and likes to shoot larger calibers. I love to shoot my .44 Magnum more than my .22 LR revolvers. I am a good shooter with both. Does it mean that I am a bad shot because I like the .44 Magnum revolver better? There may be some truth to the comment that people think a larger caliber will do better for them. Like I said in my post. I traded the 30-30 as my primary deer rifle that I had used for years for a .25-06, and it has proven to be a much better deer rifle. Am I a poor shot for buying a more powerful flatter shooting rifle to hunt deer?
I just find those blanket statements without proof to be pure speculation.

I know a guy who shoots a 7mm Magnum for everything from pigs to bear when a 35 Remington or 30-30 would do the job also. He actually shoots that 7mm Magnum very accurately, and by shooting a 7mm Magnum he is able to download it if he wants, and does at times. Just like the .44 Magnum. I am just saying what is on my mind, and not looking for argumentation.

You can't judge someone for what caliber rifle or handgun they carry to hunt with. You have to judge them for what they do when it comes time for the kill.

With all that said I am a big, big fanboy of the .25-06 or any .25 caliber rifle.

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