Saiga: Should I stop here?


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Grim Peeper
June 8, 2011, 11:27 PM
This is my saiga rifle Ive done the mag conversion and I think Im satisfied. I actually like the the bolt hold open and the trigger. I guess my question is what makes the full conversion really worth it. IS it just having the trigger group farther forward Who really care about that? Cant I just get the gas tube which will give me enough complaint parts and be done with it. Whats your opinion?

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TheDriver
June 8, 2011, 11:47 PM
Do the full conversion. The trigger pull just gets tons better. Plus, LOP and ergos are better (relatively). You can keep the BHO lever.

Plus, it's pretty fun. Check the saiga-12 forum for tons of info if you haven't already.

sv51macross
June 8, 2011, 11:59 PM
It's not hard to do the full conversion. I have to say yay just on trigger pull, the Tapco G2 is a great trigger, and gets you 3 compliance parts. I've heard that another main reason to do the full conversion is that moving the grip forward the few inches much improves the gun's balance.

mr.trooper
June 9, 2011, 12:09 AM
The first and only thing I would bother doing to a Saiga is converting the pistol grip and stock to standard configuration.

IMO you haven't even started.

Grim Peeper
June 9, 2011, 12:21 AM
"The first and only thing I would bother doing to a Saiga is converting the pistol grip and stock to standard configuration."

I probally will eventually but why is moving the trigger group so essential to everyone. I would think that the mag conversion would be much more important in terms of convenience in using real surplus steel mags.

I understand that the balance will feel better and the G2 trigger is a little better but wow that is a ton of work for a 2 inch difference lol :scrutiny:

cbrgator
June 9, 2011, 12:29 AM
Pardon my ignorance, is that the stock/pistol grip combo where it is all one piece?

Grim Peeper
June 9, 2011, 12:33 AM
Yes, it is the tapco T6 stock made specifically for a unconverted saiga.

cbrgator
June 9, 2011, 12:34 AM
I've been considering it for my Saiga 12. Does it feel sturdy and durable?

Grim Peeper
June 9, 2011, 12:55 AM
Yes it is extremely solid and no wobble at all. In fact I like it so much I really would like to keep it. I also really want to convert it as well but I have so little time and I just want to make sure its worth my time.

cbrgator
June 9, 2011, 01:03 AM
I like the sound of that. What else did you replace to make it 922r compliant?

Grim Peeper
June 9, 2011, 01:14 AM
Well I have some USA tapco mags that arent as good and the euro mags pictured but I keep them around because i think they count as 3 parts also im concidering a gas tube and hand guards that count as compliant part as well. But if you have a saiga 12 gauge I would order a tapco stock first and they sell them everywhere online and there great!!!

Onward Allusion
June 9, 2011, 01:24 AM
Using Tapco mags & buttstock makes it 100% compliant.

cbrgator
June 9, 2011, 01:34 AM
Using Tapco mags & buttstock makes it 100% compliant.
According to the parts counters I have found, a US mag and a buttstock/pistol grip replacement leave me 1 foreign part too many.

Grim Peeper
June 9, 2011, 01:43 AM
Get on the dinzag arms website im sure they will have a part for your shotgun that will look great and make the rifle function better as well as make it more 9 22r safe.

tkopp
June 9, 2011, 03:49 AM
Tapco mags are good to go in a Saiga (some WASR-10s may have issues depending on how far they were opened), but with combloc mags being cheap, plentiful, and well-built it's worth getting the other parts to be able to use them.

Grim Peeper
June 9, 2011, 04:07 AM
I dont care for the tapco mags but if I use the tapco stock and gas tube and hand guards I shouldnt need to move the trigger group to be legal that being said I may move it anyway when i get the time. But i guess my original question was if it really makes that big of a difference. Im learning that the main advantage is being able to install a better trigger system. But is it really that much better seeing i already have a PG stock magizine conversion completed and the other nessesary 922r parts? Note that the gas tube and hand guards are still on their way.

aka108
June 9, 2011, 09:36 AM
I left my Saiga alone. Shoots decent as it came.

03Shadowbob
June 9, 2011, 10:22 AM
My S308 is not converted either and it seems fine for me. Balances fine, ergos are fine, etc however I may do the conversion one day. Mine had a trigger job completed to include the G2 as well as some hammer, disconnector, bolt hold open, anti walk work done.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/BJCWALL/guns/guns003.jpg

JustinJ
June 9, 2011, 10:38 AM
Another vote for moving the trigger forward. Ergonomics are far better which is why it was put there in the first place. The farther out you have to hold the foreguard to support the gun the quicker your muscles will become tired. Simple fact of leverage. Handle any ak platform with the grip and trigger in the right place and i'm sure you'll see why.

M1key
June 9, 2011, 11:28 AM
I am converting mine after several years of putting it off.

SC

Onward Allusion
June 9, 2011, 12:30 PM
cbrgator (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=60399)
Quote: Using Tapco mags & buttstock makes it 100% compliant.
According to the parts counters I have found, a US mag and a buttstock/pistol grip replacement leave me 1 foreign part too many.???

A standard Saiga 7.62x39 has 14 evil imported parts. Replacing the mag is 3 parts. The buttstock is another. Brings it down to 10...

AH - just saw that you have a Saiga 12... Yeah, 1 more part needed for you...

M1key
June 9, 2011, 12:31 PM
Yep, he's legal with Tapco buttstock, pistol grip, and USA mags.

M

Grim Peeper
June 14, 2011, 11:19 PM
Im most likely going to get another saiga chambered in 7.62 and convert it. I think Im gonna keep this one the way it is and make the new one a side folder. If it goes well Ill convert my first one but in a different way. Has anyone else converted multiple saigas in different ways? If so pease post the pics to help give me ideas.

M1key
June 15, 2011, 12:26 AM
Just finished a 308 and 223. The 308 was a little more involved than the 223 but still relatively simple. Now I am eyeing my x39. :cool:

I don't have pix, but if you want info and pix and videos and links...go to the best source: http://forum.saiga-12.com/


M

Evergreen
June 15, 2011, 06:03 AM
Don't forget to shoot the thing ;). So many people deck out their Saigas, but then feel to scared to shoot them because of all the $$$$ they put into the thing. I admit, there is a place in heaven for such pretty guns, but I can hit my targets with the crappy Russki irons at 200 yards with my converted Saiga 308 and I am happy. Basically, I'd rather take all the extra money I'd put into beefing up a Saiga and purchase a nicer quality gas-piston AR-platform type of gun, like a LMT MRP 308.. What's the point of spending gazillions on a gun that will never be any more accurate and still has the same cheap AK parts as its base.

The only exception is the Saiga 12, which is in a league of its own, being a "battle" shotgun.

JustinJ
June 15, 2011, 09:44 AM
"What's the point of spending gazillions on a gun that will never be any more accurate and still has the same cheap AK parts as its base."

Because those "cheap AK parts" will run no matter what you do to them in a way that an LMT could only dream of. Not knocking LMTs but they are two totally different animals.

Effigy
June 15, 2011, 02:15 PM
A quality AK is decently accurate, given the effective range of the cartridge. I wouldn't compare it to the accuracy of a benchrest rifle because they have different purposes. I've spent around $1700 on my AK if you include magazines and accessories, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It's easily my favorite gun I own.

If it's a gun you really enjoy, I wouldn't shy away from spending money to enhance it. That said, you can certainly get the job done with a basic model. It just comes down to which features are important to you.

M1key
June 15, 2011, 10:00 PM
I have seen some excellent Saiga groups...not typical of most AKs.

My 308 and 223 Saiga are smooth shooting carbines...I'll have to put 'em on paper someday. :cool:

M

Grim Peeper
June 16, 2011, 12:43 AM
I see your point Evergreen my main goal was to make it easy to use and to take real ak mags. The only money I really spent was on the PG stock and bullet guide a grand total of under $100 and plus the sight mount. And yes it is pretty accurate I scoped it with a cheap tasco scope and was hitting X rings at as far as my range would allow me to go.:cool:

THE DARK KNIGHT
June 16, 2011, 02:03 AM
I think there tends to be a mentality where all guns are looked at as hunting/target or self defense firearms. Which is fine, because some guns are designed ground up for hunting, or target shooting, or self defense, or some combo of the three.

However, some guns are not made for any of those purposes. The AK was not. The AK is made for war. It is meant to be easy to learn, easy to strip and maintain, reliable in adverse conditions, and the only accuracy ever asked of it is a man sized target at intermediate ranges.

Now, the AK can fill other roles, and plenty of people hunt, target shoot, or use them for defense. But please keep in mind, these are all secondary roles that it can just so happen to fill decently. The thing was built for war, and it's not realistic to rate it as anything else.

Grim Peeper
June 16, 2011, 03:27 AM
Well said and I totally agree! I apperiate all the input. Its current configuration is that of the first picture I posted and I think it fills many roles the way it is and I really like it now. But the question I guess was should I continue to change it from this form of that first picture and what would be the real advantages if any. That change I refer to would be of course just moving the trigger group thats all. The change from what I understand so far would be merely better balance and a G2 trigger upgrade. To tell you the truth im still on the fence but hey thats the fun of the hobby and part of the fun is just imageing and tinkering.

M1key
June 16, 2011, 10:54 AM
..................

M1key
June 16, 2011, 03:36 PM
Just finished two conversions in 308 and 223. Fairly easy to do with basic metal working 101. Ergonomics are much better.

I'd be willing to bet you eventually convert 'em. :cool:

M

Grim Peeper
June 16, 2011, 09:20 PM
I like that pic with the converted saiga the m4 stock. I have very long arm ya know

M1key
June 16, 2011, 10:12 PM
You can always install the longer Nato length stock.

I shoot the 308 in that same forward position.

M

Effigy
June 17, 2011, 01:26 AM
I just put a VLTOR AR-style buffer tube and Magpul CTR stock on my SGL-21 to replace the default Warsaw Pact stock. Haven't gotten a chance to shoot it yet, but I'm loving the ergos on it. I put the 0.75" recoil pad on it too. The cheek weld is perfect for iron sights. There's absolutely no wobble with CTR either. This setup costs a small fortune, but I'm very impressed with it.

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