[trooper]

Hi guys,

there's a question floating around in the back of my head lately...

How easy is it for those of you who own very different handguns to switch between them? After extensively shooting gun A, can you just pick up gun B which has a totally different manual of arms, is vastly bigger/smaller and points differently and continue to shoot equally well?

Do you do things instinctively right if you just feel a certain gun in your hand? If you have two or more different guns you've practiced a great deal with, can you pick up one of them from your nightstand at 3:00 a.m. and instantly adapt to it?

Well, I was just wondering... Thanks for your input.


Regards,

Trooper

[Secmat]

These days, I stick with Glocks and revolvers. Grip and shoot action with each keeps any confusion away. When I carried a 1911 daily, my BUG was an Officers ACP. On the range it doesn't really matter because you have the time to pick up the weapon and play with it before you shoot. When carrying, you revert to training when faced with a stressful situation, so it just makes sense to stick with similar action types.

[HSMITH]

Yes, I can transition between 1911's, DAO auto's, DA/SA autos, and revolvers without any problems. It took a PILE of shells to get there though. The hard transition was the 1911 to the Glock for me, the grip angle is drastically different. After a couple thousand rounds the Glock and I are old friends, and I have been shooting this 1911 for over 10 years.

[MoNsTeR]

I tend to ride the slide stop on a Beretta due to my high-thumb grip. Other than breaking myself of that, I have no problem switching about. Different triggers can present a slight difficulty, but it only takes me a few rounds to adapt. Never understood why grip angle mattered, or how people could forget different control locations...

[Kamicosmos]

i don't seem to have much trouble switching between MY guns.
I pick up someone else's gun, and usually the trigger gets me, either lighter or heavier than I'm expecting.

[Ankeny]

After extensively shooting gun A, can you just pick up gun B which has a totally different manual of arms, is vastly bigger/smaller and points differently and continue to shoot equally well?

Nope, I can't switch platforms on the spot and continue to shoot "equally well". When I am concentrating on a particular gun, say my STI Open blaster, and I want to transition to a different gun like my CZ 75 Production gun, I need several days of dry fire and a couple of trips to the range to do some timing drills. When I switch from a semi-auto to a revolver, it takes me about two weeks of daily dry fire and several hundred rounds of live fire just to get back into the groove. Going from a wide body 2011 to a single stack 1911 takes just a few minutes. Of course, I am talking about switching guns at a fairly high level of competition.

For informal plinking and/or self defense, I can switch around between guns with no problem. I think most folks would be best served by picking just one gun and practicing if they ever want to get really good.

[Sean Smith]

I've found that for whatever reason, going from a lighter trigger like a 1911 to a heavier trigger like a DA revolver takes some getting used to, but going from a heavier trigger to a lighter trigger is pretty easy. But that's just me.

[ChickenHawk]

I shoot my Glocks (and my G17 is my HD gun) so much it takes me a couple of shots to get comfortable with any other gun I start to shoot.

I recently switched to my Bersa Thunder as my carry gun, so I make sure I shoot at least 100 rounds through my Bersa during every range trip (weekly) to make that trigger as 'second nature' as my Glocks trigger is.

I love that Bersa, but the Glock trigger is still the sweetest thing going IMHO. I have the 3.5 connector on all my Glocks, though. :cool:

Cheers,
ChickenHawk

[Jim K]

For the range it doesn't matter. But if you carry a gun for serious purposes (like you testified against the local mob boss), get one gun, and practice with it. You don't play "If it's Tuesday this must be a Glock" while little holes appear in your precious bod.

Jim

[tc300mag1]

No prob here i did shoot a firends springfield the other day and the light trigger got me but after 1 mag i had settled in

[Smoke]

One of the reasons I advocate choosing one platform and sticking to it....

There is no "adapt" when you have to use the gun in a hurry.

Smoke

[cratz2]

Well, I started with 1911s and prefer single actions in general. I would imagine it would be easier from a 'doing things right' perspective to go from cocked and locked to something like the Glock, SIG or Kahr action.

On the other hand, having been on the various forums for a while, it gives me slight pause to see guys that have carried a Glock or a SIG for 10 years talking about getting into carrying a 1911 for the first time... Just something about having presented a carry weapon thousands of times not having to worry or even think about a manual thumb safety or ensuring the grip safety is properly engaged to having to remember all that stuff... I sometimes wonder how many times that needs to be done before the 'extra safeties' are dealt with as second nature.

To answer your question directly though... I have 1911s, a Kahr, a KelTec, a Taurus, a Glock and a couple revolvers including a DAO... At the range, I can transition pretty quickly and be on target but at the present, I'm pretty much in a DAO mindset but if I had to grab a 1911 or a single action CZ type pistol, I would be pretty confident in remembering to do what needs to be done.

Good question though... Many comments have been made about the difference in grip angles between the Glock vs the 1911. At close 'defensive' range, I don't think it matters nearly as much as drawing from concealment and getting on target at 25 yards. And much has been said about transitioning from a long, heavy DA pull to a short, lighter SA pull in pistols, esp the Beretta platform. While I have a lot of experience with the Beretta and Taurus copy, I think generally I'm more of a fan of either a single action pistol or a DAO pistol.

[mete]

Your serious gun should always be the same .In an emergency you react as if you have the most familiar gun. I always carry a P7 and I'm sure I would forget to disengage the safety if I was carrying a 1911.The same thing is true for automobiles .A perfect example was when my brother was driving my aunts car, but in an emergency he reacted as if it were his own. that was good for laughs.

[cslinger]

I am not an expert with any handgun by any means.

That being said I can pick up just about any make, model or caliber of handgun and be more than combat accurate and know how to make it function or clear a malf.

One exception to this rule that I have found is the Beretta Tomcat in .32. I can't shoot that little bas......sucker to save my life. I might as well just throw that tiny little hunk of metal at an assailant. I don't know what it is. Even when I conciously try to shoot well, trigger control, breath front sight etc. bahhhhhhhh. Everybody around me shoots the darn things just fine but not me brother.

[tlhelmer]

Mainly it depends upon controls and the type of action on the gun.

For target practice I can adapt pretty quickly. If your talking about drawing from a holster and shooting quickly, it takes me a little longer.

If you throw in a manual safety ie. 1911 thumb safety it takes many repetitions. Sometimes I even find myself trying to decock my Glocks. My primary weapon for duty use is the Beretta 96G.

[TN-popo]

My experience is the same as Ankenys. I like 1911s and love Glocks, but trigger manipulation between the two can screw me up for the first few mags after switching between the two.
I'm not talking about just punching paper, but during more "speedy" drills.

"Beware of the man with one gun."

[Mannlicher]

I don't think about this stuff on a regular basis, but I am able to transition between my carry guns with no problems. I know that I take a long time before a new gun moves into the rotation, but once I am comfortable with it, the new gun takes it's place with the others.

[BluesBear]

I dryfire at least 25 rounds each and every day. Usually more and usually different guns.

I am of the belief that you MUST "become as one" with each serious gun you have. It then becomes second nature to adapt to the difference between each.

After all you don't hug your mother exactly the same way you hug your sweetheart do you?
(Hopefully you never get confused in this.)

[Morgan]

Front sight.

Press.

Works with pretty much everything. Nothing wrong with keeping it simple by using the same gun for concealed and duty carry (or same gun pretty much all the time).

[Hal]

Depends on how many rounds it holds.

[JPM70535]

for years I carried only DA revolvers so there was no problem. Transitioning from them to DA/SA Autos took a little time primarily due to the different grip angle. Trigger pull was never a problem, since in an emergency situation, operation was the same, draw and pull the trigger.( I always carried S&W autos with safety off) When I added the 1911 platform it took several months before wiping the safety off on the draw became second nature. When the plastic wonder (Glock) arrived on scene I bought a model 23. Although it shoots well and never jams, if I had to draw from concealment in an emergency, (which since I don't carry Glocks is moot) the difference in grip angle always makes the pistol point high.

I still carry S&W Autos on occasion, however most of the time I carry either a Para LDA or a Model 649 S&W and have no problem switching back and forth. For the new shooter sticking with one type of platform makes more sense.

Beware the man who has only one gun!

[shooter1]

I carry Glocks, Kimbers, Smiths, and Kel tecs. I shoot straight thumbs which wipes the safety on the 1911s. For combat purposes there is no pratical difference for me. The mag releases are pretty much the same, so no problem there. On the range I might shoot one better than the other on any given day. It depends a lot on which one I've had the most range time with lately.
Will

[ChickenHawk]

Well (not flaming just commenting) I gotta play "I doubt you" on that point.

Since I also have both, I can't believe you shoot any of your Glocks and your Kel-Tecs the same way. The Kel-Tec is a great example of a trigger that is excruciatingly long ... especially if you shoot your Glock a lot more making that the trigger you are more used to.

There has to be some mental transition when you switch from one to the other.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk

[shooter1]

If on the range shooting quals, yep, there's a big difference. If I yank it out of my pants to shoot a bad guy, nope. I assure you, in a fight for your life situation, you can't tell a 2# pull from a 20#!
Will

[gabeodog]

My only problem is different site pictures. like from my glock to my Sig, or my sig to my TLE. But i still do well.

[Model520Fan]

With me, they all work (the only guns I carry with a manual safety are 1911's), but DA is different on different guns. Going from S&W M10 to Kahr, the Kahr seems slow. But some S&W's can discharge well before I expect them to when firing DA. No "staging" for me with S&W's! Colts are safer this way. Of course, staging is unwise, anyway, and switching guns around a lot is also unwise. Although I carry daily, it is more a matter of principle than any expectation of need. However, there are some locations/situations where I consider the gun to be with me for a slightly more specific reason. In those cases, I will only carry what I shot last. In a pinch, dryfire would probably be OK for reprogramming, also.

In SA, I find no problem switching among revolvers, and very little switching among autos.

[Jim K]

If you carry a lot of different guns, you better hope the bad guy gives you time to remember which one you have and how to make it work. People who say they would never have a problem with transition in a gun fight are fooling themselves.

Same with folks who carry guns in different places. You might not be able to call time out while you try to remember where you put your gun.

Jim

[SnWnMe]

My centerfire handguns other than my Mak are 1911s and Smith revos. I often go to matches with an auto and a revo. I seem to do fine. with either. I have no desire to be proficient with other guns although I do know how to use most.

[T.Stahl]

I own only one handgun, but it being simply a Glock with its less-than-perfect Glock-trigger enables me to adopt to different guns with different triggers quite easily. Or as a fellow shooter in my club said, "One who can shoot well with a Glock trigger can do so with any other trigger, too." ;)

[45R]

I focus on a few things when shooting new guns
Form
Sight Alignment
Trigger Control

Sometimes it helps, other times it doesnt.

[Range Ninja]

Currently I own only 3 guns a SA Mil-Spec, CZ 75D PCR, and a S&W 2 1/2" model 66. All are quite different from each other, but I am comfortable with all three at the range or if it ever came down to it in a jam. Being a RO I handle many different types of firearms, I just rely on my basics, a smooth, steady trigger pull and controlled breathing. It seems to work well for me.

[Serpico]

.0000001 seconds

[rayjay]

I shoot 3 different guns in one match(IDPA). Springer 1911-A1 for the CDP, an H&K USP 40 in ESP, and a G17 in SSP. I shoot each without thinking about how it operates, it just comes natural I guess. BUT I have fired thousands of rds thru each of them. My point being that practice is the best way to ensure that you can shoot ANY given weapon without hesitation. If you're not familiar with SigArms, then borrow one, buy one, or rent one and give the controls a good workout, same goes for any gun that you're not familiar with. I remember years ago standing on a firing line and the instructor yelling for us to "HAND YOUR WEAPON TO THE PERSON ON YOUR LEFT! YOU WILL NOW MAKE READY(now standing behind us) AND UPON MY COMMAND YOU WILL SHOOT THAT WEAPON AT YOUR TARGET. READY ON THE LEFT, READY ON THE RIGHT........FIRE!" After firing the weapon we had to reload it and shoot again. Then the process started all over again. I watched in horror as my Colt Gov. 80 IV was being "man handled" by several strangers. :eek: On a good note though I did get to shoot a couple of very nice weapons, :D and I learned to shoot a couple of weapons that I had never handled before. It was good training. God bless those instructors.

[dairycreek]

the answer to your question can be found with practice, practice, and practice! If you will practice with a particular configuration you can eventually become quite competent with it. Time varies from person to person but with experience one or two boxes of ammo fired under controlled conditions will do it for me. Controlled conditions, for me, means that I am really working to master the particular pistol or revolver of concern - not just blasting away for the heck of it. Good shooting;)

[raz-0]

Switching between MY guns takes very little transition time. But that is because I have practiced with all of them. But it has also lead me to change some old habits. FOr example, I pretty much never touch the slide release anymore. I haven't run into a semi-auto that won't let you slingshot the slide when you run dry. Additionally, it uses the off hand which means I haven't changed my stronghand grip to operate controls.

For unfamilliar guns:

From an operating control standpoint, new guns take about one mag change to get used to.

From a defensive accuracy standpoint (i.e. being able to keep a couple of magazines in a fist sized area on a target, where I am aiming, fired at a reasonable rate) it usually takes about 30-50 rounds of ammo to get there unless there is soemthing exceptional about the gun. The closer it is to somethign I have used before in control layout, site radius, and trigger feel, the less ammo/time it takes.

However, being really accurate or really fast (for some definiton of fast), takes some dedicated time with a particular gun.

[Erik Jensen]

while I can't say that I'm precisely as accurate with an unfamiliar gun as I am with my Beretta, I can say that I've never failed to hit paper with an unfamilar gun. nor have I ever failed to take it off safe before firing. so, I'd say I would trust myself to defend myself with an unfamilar gun. I may not be able to hit someone in the eye, but I will be able to stop them from coming at me. that, to me, seems to be the important part.

[VaughnT]

While I hate to sound like a braggart, I seem to be one of those people that can adapt to any gun within the first few rounds.

A clear example of this came today when I was breaking in my new High Power. Having never shot this weapon platform or caliber before, I was able to make very small groups from the bench within the first magazine.

Then the guy next door offered me the chance to shoot his 9x19 Glock (G17?). One magazine and every bullet went into an 8" circle at 12yd. This was rapid-fire, isoc stance.

Personally, I believe that this has less to do with knowing how to shoot a gun and more to do with understanding physics, geometry and the human body. Once you understand these fundamental keys, you can shoot any platform with confidence.

[Ankeny]

Holy cow, looks like I am one of the few guys on the forum who can't just swap pistols on the spot and continue like nothing has changed. I just can't be that incompetent.

[shooter1]

Ankeny,
Come on now, give yourself some credit!
Will

[Ankeny]

OK, I am that incompetent, lol.

[shooter1]

Ankeny,
Glad to see I'm not the only one with the warped sense of humor!:D
Will

[Rich357]

I often take 3 or 4 handguns to the range with different manual of arms. The differences aren't a problem for me at the range. However, under a highly stressful situation I would prefer to use a system I've trained with. But, in a pinch you have to go with what you have and do your best.

I believe the biggest problem for me would be clearing jams on a less used system.

Rich

[Rich357]

I should say I'm pretty good with several different systems at the range but I don't claim I'm really equally fast and accurate with all the systems I have.

I find going between Glocks and SIGs relatively easy. but right now, some controls on a 1911 would make me slower clearing a jam.

Rich

[Navy joe]

.0000001 seconds

Ya sure, color me incompetent then.

I think the big disconnect here is what performance you want out of you and the gun when you pick it up. I'm sure I can pick up any gun and be accurate the first shot assuming it is sighted in. Just apply the fundamentals. I am not so sure that I can rapidly draw it, get multiple hits fast, reload, clear malfunctions etc. with no degradation of skill.
Fer instance, I have been shooting a Glock extensively for the past year. I cannot give you the same skill level perfomance in an instant switch between my G17 and G34. Trigger feels a little different, different grip feel, different recoil. It plays with me if I change from tungsten to an SSP recoil rod in my G34. Sight tracking goes to crap for a little while with a switch in load from my147 to 115gr loads. Yes, I can still go fast, look cool, get good hits, look cool, but I still know I am not as good as I can be. Did I mention I still look cool? :D

Other examples:
-After lots of Glock shooting I tend to push shots right with a 1911 because I put too much finger on the trigger and push sideways.(lefty) Or shoot a 1911 a lot and pull the Glock left due to too little finger on the trigger.
-Tonight I was swapping out between my new 625 toy and the Glock. I was just shooting along doing reloads for both when I rolled the 625 up to a butt right muzzle slightly up center chest position. Glock reload position. Note to self. 625 does not have a mag release button. In my defense I never tried to stuff a moonclip in the Glock. Last week I did try to tac-load my Surefire, too much stuff in pocket at once.

[Ankeny]

Navy Joe:

I think the big difference between us and a lot of the other forum members is our frame of reference. Most folks are talking about informal plinking where we are talking about going to the races.

Last fall I shot the classifier 99-49 in a match while shooting Production. The score came back at 85.8 per cent. After the match I got my Open blaster out and went for broke. My time with the Open blaster was slower and the hits weren't there. But if you asked the peanut gallery they would swear on a stack of Bibles the Open gun was faster because I looked faster. Heck, I even felt faster with the Open gun. The timer doesn't lie.

[PO2Hammer]

I'll agree with Smoke. I find myself fumling with my HK after using my SIG. I think I'm going to transition to all SIG.(I'll probably keep my multi-cal.Glock 20). Anyone need a HK USP Elite 6" 9mm?