The Ideal Combo Rifle


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Panzercat
June 9, 2011, 02:58 PM
Just curious what you guys think of as the ideal combo survival rifle. Generally the inclusion of a .22 of some flavor is all but mandatory, but what's the other hald of that equation? .410's give you a few options, including a .45 if the rifle is built for it (m6 springfield). Others like the option of a 20g for the larger payload (marlin comes to mind).

Maybe your idea of the ideal combo gun is something a bit more exotic, like a .22/.223? What would you take, given the outback/survival theme of this firearm?

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rcmodel
June 9, 2011, 03:12 PM
Well, a lot would depend on where you are "surviving".

For instance a .22 RF might be ideal in the Arizona desert for plinking small game, snakes, & lizards to eat.

Not so much when an Alaskan Brown bear is about to eat you for a mid-day snack.

Assuming you are going to be surviving on foot?
I would pick something that would allow me to carry enough ammo to gather food for the expected time frame.
That would rule out a case of 12 ga shotgun ammo, or 250 rounds of 45-70.

Actually, a Savage 24C .22RF/20 ga over & under they used to make would be a pretty good choice. Much better then an M6 Springfield!

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9872366

For most typical locations where I could become lost?
I'd pack a handful of rifled slugs for big predator defense, another box of #6 shot shells for bird harvesting, and half a brick of .22 RF Hi-Speed.

Total load would be less then 10 pounds, and you should be able to live off the land for a couple of months or more if you have safe water & shelter.

rc

toivo
June 9, 2011, 04:18 PM
I second the .22LR over 20-gauge. Very versatile: .22 gives you small land animals, 20-gauge gives you birds and self-defense. In an encounter with a brown bear, a 20-gauge slug would at least give you a fighting chance.

EDIT TO ADD: Just looked that auction. Yikes! They have got be kidding on that price. No, no, no, and no. Yeah, they don't make them anymore, but we're talking about a utility gun, not a fine collectible.

Hocka Louis
June 9, 2011, 09:37 PM
.22 Mag. After that, things fall apart.

However, I suppose a .20 ga. that takes 3" Mag is also a consideration -- but it requires at least three different, very big and heavy low-powered-compared-to-centerfire-rifle shells (such as #5 shot, #3 buckshot, slugs).

gbran
June 9, 2011, 09:40 PM
Crossfire MK1, .223/12ga pump.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/gbran/CrossfireMK1.jpg

DammitBoy
June 9, 2011, 09:45 PM
.22 hornet over .410 in stainless

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/5596770818_4c2f1e5717_z.jpg

There are others like it, but this one is mine... :D

Gordon
June 9, 2011, 09:50 PM
I've had a lot of these over the years From the Teninte stocked Stevens 22lr / .410 , then .30-.30/20 , ,357 Max /.20 , and .223/12 ga. . Then their was the weird Bronco .22mag/.410 I had for 5 years or better. Then the 9.3/16ga Drilling, and .308/12ga Valmet. Well the last were the 2 Springfield M-6 Scouts , one parked one Stainless both in .22 Hornet/,410.
Tell you what in SHTF the .22hornet/.410 is hard to beat doing the survival job it was designed for ! I've used it to slaughter deer sized sheep and goats to 30 yards or so and my son used it on pigs in Hi with success.
The other Savages are gone from me but most still in the family. They are good guns for non gun enthusiast folk IMHO.
The Drilling and Valmet O/U combo are still in my safe, very kewl and hold their value, but I use more specialized tools on hunts ect.
.22 Hornet 45 grain Winchester ammo and some 3" Brenneke slugs and #6 3" .410s are in their stocks, and we use them!

Kliegl
June 9, 2011, 10:02 PM
The best combo gun I would take is a Drilling chambered in 12 gauge in the shotgun
barrels and 30-06 in the rifle barrel. Granted, I wouldn't be hiking hundreds of miles with it, but, for survival, as either living some place that is desirable, or getting TO there and living there, the two 12s and the 06 are the best for American game, anything from dove/squirrel to turkey to deer/pig, and even an elk. I think it'd do a bear too.

Brian Williams
June 9, 2011, 10:18 PM
Screw the combo idea, everyone seems to think you have to shoot birds on the wing, why? O, it is sporting I guess. Well with a good accurate rifle I would shoot any birds on the roost. Give me a good 357 mag lever gun, like my 1894 Marlin.

MachIVshooter
June 9, 2011, 10:21 PM
.22 Hornet or .223 over 12 gauge. It'd be a tough call on the rifle part, as both have their strong suits and weak points in this application. The Hornet is quieter, and the lighter cartridges allow more ammo to be carried, but it does not do well with bullets over 50 grains. .223, on the other hand, offers twice the power and handles heavier bullets easily, but at the cost of noise and reduced round count in your pack.

JerryM
June 9, 2011, 10:25 PM
.22 rimfire and 20 ga would be my ideal. With the .22 you could carry a lot of ammo for small game, and the 20 ga with proper loads could do fairly well for bear protecton, although not ideal. The 20 ga with slugs could take large game such a moose or elk if they were available.

There has to be a balance between weight, ammo to be carried, and effectiveness considering the wildlife.

Regards,
Jerry

mnrivrat
June 9, 2011, 11:01 PM
My custom Savage 24 is .223 Rem over 20ga. I have a 22 LR adaptorcartridge in storage space in the forearm. I have some 22 shorts in the butt stock storage, and I have a nylon butt cuff with a few rounds of 20ga.

I bought this particular gun with messed up barrels so custom built them to 19" overall. The 20ga is set up for screw in chokes, and besides the Improved Cylinder choke in the gun, I have a rifled choke tube to shoot sabot slugs.

I am very happy with this set up.

toivo
June 9, 2011, 11:34 PM
Screw the combo idea, everyone seems to think you have to shoot birds on the wing, why?
If you have the right gun, you can shoot them on the wing or on the ground, wherever they happen to be.

Maverick223
June 10, 2011, 12:15 AM
I have long thought that the perfect survival rifle would be a drilling with two barrels chambered for .410Scattergun/.460S&W/.454Casull/.45LC (< yep, all of that), with a straight-rifled external choke (to "straighten out" shot exiting the rifled barrels) and a .22LR bottom bbl.

The only firearm produced (that isn't a complete custom at great expense) that gets close is something like a 16Ga./16Ga./9.3x74R drilling with a .22LR insert in one of the scattergun barrels. This is the combo-gun that I will likely end up with "one of these days".

:)

LoonWulf
June 10, 2011, 12:31 AM
I personally dont consider a scattergun a necessity. Most of the birds i shot to eat were killed on the ground with a .22. Id go with a .22 pistol with a suppressor, and a 338 federal. Not that its an issue here in hawaii LOL

benzy2
June 10, 2011, 12:49 AM
I don't get the big combo gun craze. If I have enough time to grab supplies for two different chamberings, I've got enough time to grab two rifles. If I can't do that, I'd take a 12 gauge with a smooth bore. You may not reach out as far as with a rifled barrel accurately, but a 1oz lead slug will still drop them dead at 50 yards, and if I'm in survival mode, I'll have enough time to wait for a good shot.

If it isn't for survival, well then, I can grab whatever firearm is fitting for the day's use and a combo isn't an advantage.

If it's just to have something fun and cool, well, there's no arguing against that and I'd go with a drilling in preferably .30-06, 20gauge, and .22lr. That would be my ideal combo, but just for something fun/collectible/unique, not to survive.

mainmech48
June 10, 2011, 10:31 AM
IMO when it comes down to it, your default "survival gun" is most likely going to be whatever you happen to have ready and close at-hand when things go awry. Most times, there ain't gonna be much (if any) "heads-up" before one finds oneself in a real emergency situation. As they taught us in the Scouts "Be prepared".

I keep "survival" bags of emergency supplies in my truck and in our storm shelter. My truck bag includes an M6 in .22 RF/.410, mostly because it's very compact, simple and rugged and stows at least some ammo on-board. Also because I haven't run across a suitable Savage 24 in nice condition at a reasonable price for a long while.

In addition to the four buckshot loads and fifteen .22 LRs in the stock's compartment, there's also a box of Federal 3" #5 shotshells and two 100 rd. boxes of Mini Mag HP's in the bag. There're quite a few other items in there selected in hopes of getting me through the most common sorts of Really Bad Day scenarios/situations, but trying to stay on-point re: firearms here. The whole shebang weighs less than 15# and is always there.

Obviously, what I've chosen to include there can't possibly cover every conceivable base but IMHO that M6 certainly should do at least well enough (in broadest terms) to give me a reasonably good chance of getting through the bulk of them. And of being there if/when I need it.

Hocka Louis
June 10, 2011, 10:45 AM
I even looked at a Savage 24 in .22 Mag and 20 ga. With a 24" barrel, it is not worth much. Bring it back as a fast take-down model with 18-1/2" barrels in matte stainless steel with gray synthetic stocks that store at least nine up-to 3" hulls and dozens of .22 Mags and I'd probably buy one and even consider using it. A little.

Hocka Louis
June 10, 2011, 11:02 AM
I even looked at a Savage 24. With a 24" barrel, it is not worth much. Bring it back as a fast take-down model with 18-1/2" barrels in matte stainless steel with gray synthetic stocks that store at least nine up-to 3" hulls and dozens of .22 Mags and I'd probably buy one and even consider using it. A little.

DM~
June 10, 2011, 11:04 AM
From some of the answers here, it's plain to see most of you have never been there and done that. After living in Alaska for 25 years, i lived out in the bush eating what i found and shot for weeks at a time, and i never found anything that worked better for that job than my drilling.

I moved up to the drilling from a Valmet 412, before that it was a Savage 2400, and before that a numerous Savage 24's. It's a HUGE step UP from the 24's to the 2400 and another step up to the 412's...

Too bad Savage didn't put a bit more time into the 24's to make them WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN!

DM

clone
June 10, 2011, 11:43 AM
i lived out in the bush eating what i found and shot for weeks at a time

I have as well, although in a different climate, and I know that a $2000 rifle isn't needed. My $125 Rossi worked fine.

Ronsch
June 10, 2011, 12:39 PM
While it was not small, I had a Savage 24 in .22LR and 12 gauge, in the early to mid 1980s. it was capable of taking all the game allowable in Indiana at the time, from birds (shot) to slugs for deer, and .22 LR for "squirrels and sich."

it was just a nice all-around gun to have. Break open design, fairly easy to work on. It is a shame that it really did get lost in the Wabash River in a canoe accident...

Hocka Louis
June 10, 2011, 02:08 PM
Right next to my buddy's brother's antique Bowie knife, only that was on the Deleware. Who puts a knife on the top of the bow of canoe in fast water anyway, or even anything IN it that they might mind losing?

DM~
June 10, 2011, 09:55 PM
I have as well, although in a different climate, and I know that a $2000 rifle isn't needed. My $125 Rossi worked fine.

I agree that you don't need a $2000, and that's why i didn't spend 2K to get a drilling.

Of course, it's also been done with a speer, and a slingshot, and i didn't do that either. lol

DM

Grousefeather
June 10, 2011, 10:21 PM
I would like a 22 mag over 20, with a .410 tube insert. I have two of the old Savage four-tenner tubes. Use one in my 20 SXS. Some places that require shotguns for squirrel hunting, I use a 20 in one barrel and .410 in the other and distance dictates the barrel selected. Works well, but always prefer a rifle shot on one.

DammitBoy
June 10, 2011, 10:28 PM
I agree that you don't need a $2000, and that's why i didn't spend 2K to get a drilling.



yeah, but you did steal that beautiful drilling of yours... :D

goon
June 10, 2011, 10:54 PM
I agree with Brian Williams that maybe the combo gun idea isn't as great as it's cracked up to be.
Pack a .22 handgun for the small stuff and good centerfire rifle for the bigger stuff. You'd likely have not much more weight than the combo gun, if any, and still be just as well equipped.

Having said that, I've seen some pretty cool drillings - one was a 30'06 in the rib with a side by side 12 gauge under it. It was just freakin' cool and there's no way I'd ever want to talk the guy who made it out of making it!

benzy2
June 10, 2011, 11:45 PM
From some of the answers here, it's plain to see most of you have never been there and done that. After living in Alaska for 25 years, i lived out in the bush eating what i found and shot for weeks at a time, and i never found anything that worked better for that job than my drilling.Would you have been unacceptably inconvenienced to have 3 rifles/shotguns in the three calibers of your drilling rather than a single rifle capable of all 3? Not to say you carried all three with you at all times, but if you're living out there, is there harm in having two others sit at home while you're out with the third?

Pete D.
June 11, 2011, 06:52 AM
Note: including a .45 if the rifle is built for it (m6 springfield).

The M6 Scout is not built to chamber the .45 Colt (at least mine isn't). Before I knew better, I tried and the Colt cartridge will not chamber. Just as well....not good to try to shoot a .452 bullet down a .410 bore.
Pete

DammitBoy
June 11, 2011, 09:58 AM
The M6 Scout is not built to chamber the .45 Colt (at least mine isn't). Before I knew better, I tried and the Colt cartridge will not chamber. Just as well....not good to try to shoot a .452 bullet down a .410 bore.


It's a shame they didn't design the M6 to chamber the .45colt and the .410 round. That would have been a great idea.

JerryM
June 11, 2011, 10:16 AM
Although one is not required to shoot birds on the wing, and in a survival situation I would not, it might be necessary in order to eat. It would be good to have the capability.

In watching survival shows the big problem is finding enough food. A shotgun and a .22 provide the best combination considering the weight of the gun and the ammo. You can shoot everything from small birds and rabbits to moose.

Regards,
Jerry

Vern Humphrey
June 11, 2011, 11:29 AM
Combo guns as survival tools stem from them being issued to airmen. There's a limit to what you can cram into an airman's survival kit, and the idea was what would serve a man who had to bail out over a wilderness area.

If you're not constrained by what you can strap to your ejection seat, you really don't need a combo gun. But here are some good choices:

An M1911, with shot and flare shells as well as ball, plus a .22 conversion kit and a brick of ammo.

A centerfire rifle with a Hammon Game Getter (a modified case that takes a .22 rimfire nail-setting blank and a sized buckshot). Mine is in .30-06 and I've taken many a squirrel while hunting deer.

An ordinary 12 gauge pump with both shot and slugs, plus a good .22 pistol.

DM~
June 11, 2011, 12:37 PM
Would you have been unacceptably inconvenienced to have 3 rifles/shotguns in the three calibers of your drilling rather than a single rifle capable of all 3? Not to say you carried all three with you at all times, but if you're living out there, is there harm in having two others sit at home while you're out with the third?

To answer your question in one word "yes"...

Living out in the bush isn't like you are daydreaming of. Finding food isn't always easy to do, and "waiting for the perfect shot" (as suggested by one person here) is a good way to go hungary!

The best way i've found, is to have what you need with you when you need it, and that's why i drifted to a drilling. I bought it for $350.00 and slowly restored/built it to what i believed was the perfect hunting gun for me. Yes it worked as i bought it, but i made it MUCH better.

If i saw small game that i could get with the 22, it got the 22. Even at 40 or 50 yards. If it was flying it gets the shot bbl... and of course the best part of all is, i have a big game rifle in my hands at all times.

I'm an above average handgun shot, and i can tell you, a handgun will leave you hungary at times. Even in Alaska, there isn't something to eat behind every bush, and sometimes you have to shoot further than you can guarentee a killing shot with a handgun.

Life in the bush is very hard, i figured i didn't neeed to make it even harder by letting food get away because i had the wrong gun with me... lol

DM

thunder173
June 11, 2011, 01:06 PM
I actually own 3 combo guns,....and am always on the lookout for more. Two that I own are Baikal's; one is in .22LR,... the other is in .22 Magnum,..both are over a .410 barrel,...and I just recently ran down a Savage Model 24 in .223 over 12 gauge as well.

All three can be easily taken down, carried in or on a vehicle while taken down, unloaded and cased in a 24 inch or smaller stowable package. I may just be lucky,..but of the three I have,...all of them pattern well with interchangeable choke tubes. All well enough for what they are to be used for,..and they are adequately accurate with iron sights with both barrels out to the ranges I anticipate using them.

Why the combo's?? Mainly because I like the concept of the one gun rifle/shotgun combination. Of those that I have,...I'd be hard pressed to choose between either of the .22 versions of the Baikals, ...but I mostly go with the .22 magnum for it's longer reach. My bride tends to carry the .22LR version. For just a good walking gun,...either would do,..and both of the Baikal's have been successfully used to take small game for the kettle. The Savage has yet to draw blood,..but that's from lack of opportunity,...as versus its lack of capability. I am confident it will soon.

If I were to find myself in a situation where I would be limited to just one,....it'd be the .22 magnum version with the .410,...and hopefully a wide selection of ammo for it. But that could easily change if I were to see a .22 Magnum over a 20 gauge,...or maybe a 30/30 over either 12 or 20 gauge. At any decent price,....either or both would probably follow me home.

The whole concept of the combo is to have differing options available in one gun.,..and the means to take advantage of any in season game opportunity, or, ...if in a true survival scenario,...as wide a variety of options possible to take a wide range of game for food, if and when the opportunity presents itself.

Also,...though not its intended purpose,... it might just be able to be used for defense if it came down to it. Though the .22/410 combo's certainly would not be my first choice,....(In the woods,..we normally carry centerfire sidearms.),....one of the combo's might be better than just having a sharp stick, and rolling up into a fetal position while screaming in fear.

Combo guns are not meant for engaging zombies or bad guys enmass. I for one would choose to E&E,..as vs getting into a toe to toe firefight with any combo gun. Actually,...with ANY gun!... If that scenario is in your plans,..you might want to pick a better gun for your purpose. Each to thems own,....YMMV

Hocka Louis
June 11, 2011, 05:28 PM
Alright, I put my money where my mouth is and bought this today. A toy, an investment, a whim, call it what you will. But I paid a premium for this apparently unfired .22 Mag/20 ga. I can always sell it (after the storm of course). Maybe I'll have it taken down to 18-1/2"...

HOWARD J
June 11, 2011, 06:00 PM
I had a Savage Model 22/410 ( before it became model 24V ) typed myself a allow H to purchase a rifle letter-over 60 years ago.
My brother got drunk & left it in the woods.
I raised so much hell he gave me his new Marlin 39a golden.
I was a happy camper.
I did replace it later when it became # 24V

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4557/24vq.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/24vq.jpg/)

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