6.5x55 tell me about it.


PDA






scythefwd
June 9, 2011, 04:45 PM
from what I can tell, it's about half way between .30-30 and 300 sav on the power. How are the ballistics? Effective range on smallish deer (150lbs)? How consistent in quality are the m38 swedish mausers?

educate me. Few caps because I'm on a phone and it sometimes does it for me.

If you enjoyed reading about "6.5x55 tell me about it." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
R.W.Dale
June 9, 2011, 04:49 PM
In the real world with modern rifle loads 6.5x55 far far outclasses 300 savage and even 308 with the right loads. In laymans terms think of it as a very accurized long range 270win

The quality of swedish mausers are spectacular, However these are OLD guns and should be treated and loaded for accordingly

vaupet
June 9, 2011, 05:01 PM
My 1909 carl gustav is my 2nd favorit rifle (of over 20)
it shoots like a dream.

watch out, shooting 6,5x55 can be addictive: very accurate and low recoil for the power.

There are some very good people on this forum (ussr and float pilot,) on 6,5x55

BrocLuno
June 9, 2011, 05:22 PM
Slowly assembling the pieces to build one. Starting with 6.5x50 as in Arisaka Type 38 (already hacked by previous owner). Mounting a new used barrel (old one looks like a sewer pipe) and then will have it reamed to 6.5x55 and tweak the bolt head if need be. It'll take a year to get it there among all the other projects and life in general. But looking forward to trying this cartridge :)

scythefwd
June 9, 2011, 06:03 PM
r.w. Mind expanding that info a little? The 270 is faster per weight, but slightly less aero dynamic. Does the swede maintain velocity well enough to have more thump at distance? It'll have a slightly better sd per weight, but the heavier rounds used in target loads for the .308 should be better.

NCsmitty
June 9, 2011, 06:12 PM
The 6.5x55 paper ballistics do not tell the whole story. It possesses the ability to handle high ballistic coefficient bullets and they afford deep penetration and long range potential. Couple that with a light recoil in a quality milsurp firearm, and you will understand why this 110 year old design is so popular.
In a modern rifle, the ballistics can only get better.


NCsmitty

USSR
June 9, 2011, 06:21 PM
In a small ring Mauser, the 6.5x55 is an Excellent cartridge. In a modern boltgun and loaded to it's potential (60k psi), it's a Great cartridge.

Don

elkdomBC
June 9, 2011, 06:29 PM
not sure what a "modern rifle" could do to improve on what the 1905 Carl Gustav Mauser in 6.5x55 swede I shoot, all original barrel and chamber, custom stock and glass bedded, trigger re-worked,

3 shot 100 yard groups at 5/8 inch , with 140 grn HPBT hand-loads ,
1 shot kill on 187 5/8 BC mule deer buck at 280 yards ( bang flop)
several one shot kills on Canada moose ( head or neck shots) bang flops,

and such a pleasure to shoot !,
winter coyotes regularly get their ticket canceled out at 350+ yards,

all round good caliber,
far exceeding as previously stated, it's "paper ballistic abilities",,,

lencac
June 9, 2011, 06:37 PM
The 6.5 Swede is one of the all time great rounds for many reasons. They do rather well in surplus Swedes so I can only imagine it would be a veritable stud in a modern rifle loaded to it's potential.
Inherently it has great BC and SD.

axxxel
June 9, 2011, 06:40 PM
The heavier (longer) bullets not only have very good ballistics but a high sectional density, making deep penetration possible.

Us Swedes use it for all game including moose (and sometimes brown bear). Shot placement (lungs, preferably heart) is key. Neck/brain shots are very foreign to me, we get by just fine aiming for the lungs with our 6,5x55's.

MichaelK
June 9, 2011, 06:56 PM
I have two carl gustav's and am very happy with them. You just have to stop and stare at them for a minute to really absorb the elegance of their design and workmanship.

Two things to remember about Swede's though. First, their case head is larger than other cartridges like 8X57 or .30-06, so you can run into problems trying to make 6.5X55 brass from other cartridges. Best to mail order 6.5mm brass to start.

The second is that this older design is limited to 45-50K psi as compared to other cartridges running at 60-65K psi. Even though the 6.5 is loaded at somewhat lower than contemporary pressures, it still gets the job done!

T.R.
June 9, 2011, 07:05 PM
My wife hunts with a custom 6.5mm Swede. It kills far better than paper charts would suggest. But cost-wise if I could do it again, I'd buy her a 270 and have the stock fitted to her dimensions. The 150 grain 270 bullet and 140 grain 6.5mm bullet have very similar trajectory and performance.

TR

USSR
June 9, 2011, 08:53 PM
not sure what a "modern rifle" could do to improve on what the 1905 Carl Gustav Mauser in 6.5x55 swede I shoot...

Uh, 2925fps with 139-142gr Match bullets, and only 25.5MOA from a 100 yard zero to 1k.

Don

lencac
June 9, 2011, 08:58 PM
Those Swedes knew how to make those small ring Mausers, uh :scrutiny:
Ok, not to divert this thread .................... nope, I'm just going to post a new thread ................. K-31 Swiss vs. M38 Swede.
See ya there

TexasPatriot.308
June 9, 2011, 09:49 PM
dont know about the old surplus mausers, but my Tikka T3 lite stainless has become on of my favorites, low recoil, flat shooting and should take anything in Texas....some people just got to have magnums and super magnums, I just cant see it unless you just got to have one, my old 57 year shoulder dont need em or have a use for em. the people that I know shooting these shoulder bruisers are flinching when they pull the trigger and seem to miss their target a lot....but they got a big gun..

Maverick223
June 10, 2011, 01:50 AM
Outstanding cartridge that, in it's modern loading, compares better to the .25-06Rem. or .270Win. than the .300Savage. The original Swede loading, being similar to a .260Rem. or 7mm-08Rem....which is still no slouch.

:)

BrocLuno
June 10, 2011, 03:51 AM
There are some cartridges that just hit the all around magic formula and last a loooong time (as in 100 years of steady use & development ). 30-30 is one. 303 in another. 30-06 is another. And 6.5x55 is certainly one of the all time classics :)

scythefwd
June 10, 2011, 08:08 AM
So next question, directly related. I am looking at a sporterized , aka bubba'd, m38 swede mauser.

Why are the mauser actions so popular?

Since it's already bubba'd, I'll probably go the whole schebang and do it right.... a good glass bedded stock, possibly a replacement barrel from kreiger or shilen, adjustable trigger. It's already got a scope mount (would revert it to original if it hadn't already been drilled and tapped) so a moderately good scope , like a bushy 3200 or 4200 might be in order as well.

To the purists... don't want to hear it. I respect and admire a properly cared for and preserved milsurp... but once it's been drilled and tapped, it's no longer original and all bets are off. I feel the same way about my Garand.

USSR
June 10, 2011, 08:26 AM
Why are the mauser actions so popular?

Well, because that's what the 6.5x55 was chambered in, thousands of them were made, and they are relatively cheap.

Since it's already bubba'd, I'll probably go the whole schebang and do it right.... a good glass bedded stock, possibly a replacement barrel from kreiger or shilen, adjustable trigger. It's already got a scope mount (would revert it to original if it hadn't already been drilled and tapped) so a moderately good scope , like a bushy 3200 or 4200 might be in order as well.


If it's your intention to have all that work done on that M38, I would not. You would be taking a $300 rifle, putting $1000 into it, and end up with a $500 rifle. If you are going to go to all the trouble of putting a good barrel, trigger, stock, etc. on it, I would look at building on a commercial receiver. Just MHO.

Don

scythefwd
June 10, 2011, 08:45 AM
Don - stock and trigger are going to run about 125. Barrel will run 400 after having it fitted to the action. Krieger barrels are only 285. Bedding and stock finishing would be done by me. It already has a leupold one piece scope base and rings... The 3200 would be 250 if I don't trade something else off to get one. So I'd be spending 750ish on a 500 dollar rifle (same as everyone that buys a rifle new and does a test fire). I'm in talks to trade a bow for one... no money out of my wallet (traded for the bow too, actually... didn't pay for the items that I traded for it... in reality the cost is 0 for the rifle).

Nice thumbhole stock from boyds is 90, they have adjustable triggers for 35. Those triggers get good reviews from the replies on boyds... though they might not be too reliable. It may already have an acceptable trigger on it. I want something that is relatively light and that has an ok break. I'm not talking about a jewell here. I'm talking something better than my garands trigger.

As to the mauser action being popular because the 6.5x55 was chambered in it... it's one of the most copied actions... there has to be more to it than the 6.5x55 was chambered in it.

viking499
June 10, 2011, 08:46 AM
If it's your intention to have all that work done on that M38, I would not. You would be taking a $300 rifle, putting $1000 into it, and end up with a $500 rifle. If you are going to go to all the trouble of putting a good barrel, trigger, stock, etc. on it, I would look at building on a commercial receiver. Just MHO.

I started out a few years ago with an "oldie". Nothing wrong with the 38's or 96's. But when I started looking at money to invest and comparing apples to apples, I decided to sell it and start fresh with a modern version of the oldie. I have not done any "custom building" yet, but am very fond of the swede cartridge. Right now, my swedish trifecta includes a Tikka, CZ and a Howa.:D

USSR
June 10, 2011, 10:49 AM
Barrel will run 400 after having it fitted to the action. Krieger barrels are only 285.

scythefwd,

Simply having a fine Krieger barrel screwed on your receiver without having the receiver being trued is, in MHO, being penny wise and pound foolish. Spend the extra $$$ and have the receiver trued. But, in any case, putting all that money in a small ring mauser with it's pressure limitations is not something I would recommend doing. Again, just MHO.

Don

SlamFire1
June 10, 2011, 11:35 AM
scythefwd,

Simply having a fine Krieger barrel screwed on your receiver without having the receiver being trued is, in MHO, being penny wise and pound foolish. Spend the extra $$$ and have the receiver trued. But, in any case, putting all that money in a small ring mauser with it's pressure limitations is not something I would recommend doing. Again, just MHO

Ain't that the truth!

You know Winchester made M70 featherweights in 6.5 Swede and Remington made a Classic 700 in 6.5 Swede.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M700%20Remingtons/Rem70065SwedeFullLength9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M700%20Remingtons/Rem7006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M70%20pics/M70IMG_1523.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M70%20pics/M7065SwedeBarrelMarkingsIMG_1526.jpg

Both are long actions. There are lots of long actions M70's and M700's in 30-06 and 270. I have not tried the 6.5 case head in a 30-06 bolt face but I don't think it will be a lot of trouble. The military rounds seem to have wider rims than commercial brass.

If you have to have a Kreiger barrel on a rifle, putting one on a modern M70 or M700 is going to cost the same and you will have an action made of modern materials that you can load the 6.5 Swede to its true potential. With the M700 you have one of the strongest and safetest actions, in terms of gas handling, around. Both of these actions are safer to be behind in an accident than a small ring mauser and because they are alloy steel, you are less likely to develop headspace issues. The military actions were just low carbon steel ,case hardened. They have been known to peen out and just due to the poor materials used, pressures for the 6.5 Swede are kept low.

I do understand if you just have to have a 6.5 Swede in a 6.5 Swede action. Rifle decisions don't always have to be rational. In my case, seldom rational. :D

USSR
June 10, 2011, 12:59 PM
Nice, SlamFire. That's what my 6.5x55 M70 looked like, until I sold off all the parts but the action, and turned it into a 1,000 yard Match Rifle.

Don
http://ussr.clarityconnect.com/6.5Swede1.jpg

Maverick223
June 10, 2011, 03:12 PM
+1 for a factory Winchester M-70fwt. I love a good commercial Mauser '98, but a custom build isn't worth the added expense IMO.

:)

TheGrimReaper
June 10, 2011, 03:39 PM
6.5x55 SE is a awsome round. Very fun to reload for too. I hunt with a Tikka T3 SS in it and it kills deer dead with very little recoil.

scythefwd
June 11, 2011, 11:45 AM
picking up the swede next week. My cost (including everything I bought that I'm trading... < $40. I'll be replacing the stock and scope in due time... Well see what else. Several people mentioned that I shouldn't run full potential loads in this action.... Or at least alluded to that. Besides reloading... Which I'll be doing, any recommendations for current factory loadings for paperand beast?

ifit
June 12, 2011, 06:23 PM
NICE ussr, more details please

Hopkins
June 12, 2011, 06:50 PM
USSR, that Mod 70 action looks like a control feed 70 (pre 64) action. I'm not aware they have chambered the "New" control feed 70 in 6.5x55 as of yet.

USSR
June 12, 2011, 07:34 PM
That 6.5x55 is as follows:

- Winchester M70 Classic (pre-64 TYPE) long action, originally a 6.5x55 Featherweight
- 28" Obermeyer AMU contour, fluted and chambered in 6.5x55
- Pillar bedded McMillan Prone Stock in, I believe, woodland camo
- Williams Steel one-piece bottom metal
- Jewell Trigger
- Speed Lock firing pin and spring
- Badger Ordnance 20MOA picatinny rail
- TSR Tactical Rings
- Sightron SII 6-24x40 Scope
- Smithing done by Terry Cross at KMW

Don

NCsmitty
June 12, 2011, 09:10 PM
any recommendations for current factory loadings for paper and beast?

As far as I know, all current factory loads are safe in the Swede Mausers. The heavier bullets seem to shoot best in the fast twist Swede Mausers. Prvi-Partizan and Wolf Gold are made in the same factory and are reasonably priced, and usually accurate.
As to reloads, most manuals list loads for the military 6.5x55, and some show loads for commercial actions.
If you adhere to the military load limits listed, you should be able to work up some good accurate loads. Then you can see for yourself what a sweet rifle and round it is.



NCsmitty

Owen Sparks
June 12, 2011, 09:24 PM
My stock (except for the scope) Mauser was made in 1907 and will hit a dime at 100 yards. What more can you ask?

USSR
June 12, 2011, 10:14 PM
As far as I know, all current factory loads are safe in the Swede Mausers.

I believe NCsmitty is correct. The U.S. manufacturer's download the 6.5x55 to pressure-levels that would not destroy any single lug Norwegian Krags that are still occasionally found. I have heard that the Europeans load the 6.5x55 a bit hotter, but I don't know that by personal experience.

Don

Hopkins
June 12, 2011, 11:05 PM
USSR, that is a very sweet set up. I'm leaning in a similar direction with a push feed long action 70 I plan to have Krieger barrel. I have about talked myself out of the 260,6.5x47 and 6.5x284 in favor of the 6.5x55. I have a Husky 38 that was sporterized that I love to shoot and reload for. It is a tack driver with 140's if the velocities are 2500 fps or so.
I had some 139gr Norma factory that listed on the box after translation a muzzle velocity of 2700+ fps but chronod out at under 2550. If that is any indication of what the Europeans are doing.

Maverick223
June 13, 2011, 12:02 AM
I have about talked myself out of the 260,6.5x47 and 6.5x284 in favor of the 6.5x55.Good decision, you already have the action length, you may as well use it. This will probably not be a popular view in this particular thread, but normally I would prefer the .260Rem. (AI or otherwise), as it crams the same bullet into a smaller action, and does so with little loss of velocity (particularly the "improved version"). That said, both (or rather all of the aforementioned) are excellent cartridges, so you really can't go wrong with either.

:)

Owen Sparks
June 13, 2011, 12:21 AM
One advantage the 6.5x55 has over the .260 Rem is the ability to use the heavy 160 grain bullets.

Maverick223
June 13, 2011, 12:33 AM
One advantage the 6.5x55 has over the .260 Rem is the ability to use the heavy 160 grain bullets.True, while the .260Rem. can shoot them, it requires a intermediate/long action or you loose a good bit of capacity (and therefore velocity & performance).

:)

scythefwd
June 13, 2011, 06:04 AM
Unfortunately, guy backed out of the deal before we even met. Guess he liked the rifle more than he thought. Oh well, at least I learned something here.... and added another caliber to look for.....

Maverick223
June 13, 2011, 12:19 PM
Eh, they made more than one. Good luck in your search.

:)

BrocLuno
June 13, 2011, 12:36 PM
Yup, keep looking :)

expower1
June 13, 2011, 06:41 PM
i have a 6.5x50 and 7.7x58 both are very nice to shoot but i have not fired them in 20 years but soon i will again having them checked so they dont blow up in my face.

NCsmitty
June 13, 2011, 10:55 PM
Welcome to THR, expower1.

We can always use some pictures of your Arisaka rifles. Just use the Go Advanced feature and up load.



NCsmitty

Hopkins
June 14, 2011, 08:45 AM
I seem to remember an article from years ago that was about the relative strengths of military bolt action receivers . IIRC tests were done by over loading Springfield, Enfield, Mauser and Arisaka rifles. I think the Arisaka won hands down.

interlock
June 14, 2011, 09:16 AM
6.5 x 55 is an all time great. there are lots of myths about it. It is a proven game getter because of the high sectional density of the heavier bullets. When it delivers them big long heavy bullets at a moderate velocity it is going to be a very good hitter. it is not a flat shooter when loaded with them big hard hitting bullets.... but it is a centrefire rifle so it is not bad at all. we are talking about margins of inches at normal hunting ranges.

Smokey in PHX
June 15, 2011, 12:23 AM
I really liked the the Mod 70 Featherweight. Didn't know it was available in the 6.5x55. Would be a nice match to go with my 7x57 in the same model. Both of these perform better on game than the ballistics indicate.

Maverick223
June 15, 2011, 12:28 AM
Both of these perform better on game than the ballistics indicate.+1, though most folks discount sectional density and bullet construction (two of the most important aspects of a big-game hunting cartridge), and skip right to energy, TKO, and velocity.

:)

viking499
June 15, 2011, 12:30 AM
I really liked the the Mod 70 Featherweight. Didn't know it was available in the 6.5x55. Would be a nice match to go with my 7x57 in the same model. Both of these perform better on game than the ballistics indicate.

CZ has both those calibers in the 550......:rolleyes:

kneault65
June 15, 2011, 02:28 AM
got one in a Remington 700 classic. Had it since I was 13 and will never part with it. 6.5x55 is my favorite caliber. Ive killed countless whitetails, bears and one elk with it. I shoot pumpkins with it out to 600 yards with no trouble and I'm sure It'll do fine out to 1000. Its a very underated caliber in North America. Can't wait to get another.

Hopkins
June 15, 2011, 08:58 AM
The first acceptable metric rifle cartridge to the American shooter was the 7mm mag. Remington understood it would take the sizzle of "magnum" to get past the "mm" barrier. The 9mm pistol cartridge was a sleeper in the U.S. until the Beretta 92 became the service sidearm. Mauser created 2 rifle cartridge designs that have only improved with better bullet and powder designs. The 6.5 and 7 should still be here in another 100 yrs.

TheSwede
August 18, 2011, 08:51 AM
Just a tip from a swede. 6,5x55 like long barells. It works fine with 22' too but to really get out the full potential of the caliber I think you should choose 24' as a minimum and a 26' is perfect! With a 26 barrell and a modern bolt action you can load a 100 grain bullet and get more than 3120 (f/s) without getting hot. The caliber is also very kind to the barrell.
Its funny to see you guys like the 96's mauser. Just be carefull with hot loads! The barells are long and you will get the velocity without hot loads. 96's is weak compared to modern rifles but I guess you know that.

303tom
August 18, 2011, 10:38 AM
I will guarantee in the right rifle the 6.5x55 will do anything + that a .308 will do !

Smokey in PHX
August 18, 2011, 01:02 PM
Like the 7X57, the 6.5X55 just seems to put down big animals much faster and efficiently than their specs would indicate.

shaggy430
August 19, 2011, 09:11 AM
I don't own a 6.5 Swede but after all the talk about it on THR I researched it in my reloading manuals. Given the ballistics, velocity, and availability of ammo I don't see why you wouldn't go for a .270 over the 6.5 every single time. I'm not trying to knock the cartridge, but I bet some of the same people who push the 6.5 as a moose cartridge are the same that would say the .270 is too light for elk. On paper the Swede just seems anemic compared to what I was expecting to see based on the praise of the cartridge. I'll just stick to my aught-six.

viking499
August 19, 2011, 10:18 AM
Given the ballistics, velocity, and availability of ammo I don't see why you wouldn't go for a .270 over the 6.5 every single time

Most ballistics that you see online or in a book are based on reloading for older actions. The Swede really shines if you reload and own a modern action that can handle the pressures of the reloads.

303tom
August 19, 2011, 10:28 AM
I don't own a 6.5 Swede but after all the talk about it on THR I researched it in my reloading manuals. Given the ballistics, velocity, and availability of ammo I don't see why you wouldn't go for a .270 over the 6.5 every single time. I'm not trying to knock the cartridge, but I bet some of the same people who push the 6.5 as a moose cartridge are the same that would say the .270 is too light for elk. On paper the Swede just seems anemic compared to what I was expecting to see based on the praise of the cartridge. I'll just stick to my aught-six.
Being one who has both the 6.5x55 & .270, I am going to say I also have a .25-06 which I prefer over both !!!!!!!!!!!!!

jimbeaux82
August 19, 2011, 10:32 AM
I have a CZ 550 FS in 6.5 x 55 and it is a great rifle. I handload 140 gr bullets to about 2750 fps as the CZ is a very strong, modern action.

For the money, the CZ 550 series is very hard to beat, normally can find them around $600-700

Have a nice day

Jimbeaux

Kachok
August 19, 2011, 11:58 AM
I own and load the 6.5x55 amongst other calibers. My 6.5x55 is far and away my favorie. The 6.5x55 is a mature hunting round, once you realize you don't need magnum trajectory for 99% of hunts, once you realize that a 300 magnum is way too much overkill for deer, and once you get tired of carrying a heavy 26" barrel magnum in the brush, you start to realize the how great the little 6.5x55 is. It is the most efficient little round you will ever use, the short powder charge makes for efficient iternal ballistics, the remarkably high BC of the bullets make for amazing external ballistics, and the high sectional density bullets for which the 6.5x55 is famous make for supprising termianl ballistics and penatration. Combine that impressive performance with recoil that a child can easly handle, a mild pop for muzzle report, and DRT real world performnce on game, and you will wounder why you ever hunted with anything else. I have owned more rifle calibers then I care to count, but for me the 6.5x55 is a real standout.
BTW I posted a detailed ballistics comparison last year of low recoil hunting calibers, the 6.5x55 took 1st place with honorable mention going to the 7mm-08, 260 Rem, and 25-06. The 25-06 had the flatter trajectory, but was simply unable to beat the efficiency of a .612 BC hunting bullet.

viking499
August 19, 2011, 01:57 PM
Nicely put Kachok.:D

scythefwd
August 19, 2011, 02:09 PM
303 - stay supersonic at 1k yards?

TexasPatriot.308
August 19, 2011, 11:01 PM
my 6.5 Swede Sako with its low recoil and ballistics makes it one of my favorites, one all around rifle

Kachok
August 20, 2011, 03:14 AM
The ballistic twins of the 6.5x55 are impressive too. The 260 Rem, 6.5x47, and 6.5 Credmoore all provide near identical ballistics, and don't require you to handload to reach those numbers. I perfer the old sweed because I do handload, I like the standardized twist rate, I like the long neck for shooting heavier bullets, and I like the 120 year history behind the old 6.5x55. It is older then the 30-06, older then the 375 H&H and even older then the 30-30, yet still is the most efficient game getter on the market.
Factory ammo is way underpressure because of the very old rifles that are still in use. But even at the slugish 2550fps they still have acceptable trajectory and energy for 95% of all North American hunting.

dak0ta
August 20, 2011, 04:05 AM
How does the 6.5x55 out of a M38 Swede compare to a 7.5x55 coming out of a Swiss K31?

Kachok
August 20, 2011, 05:43 AM
I have not reloaded the 7.5mm, I know bullet selection is slim. So I cannot say for sure. I know the 6.5mm tends to have a much higher BC then 7-7.62mm bullets, this is due to the very tight twist in the 6.5mm bores, they can just stabalize longer, higher SD, more taperd bulles. The larger caliber should be able to use slightly heavier bullets.

dak0ta
August 20, 2011, 06:33 AM
7.5 swiss uses .308 calibre bullets. The swiss paper patched their bullets so they became 308.

I think the GP11 bullet that the 7.5 swiss is has a very narrow bullet with a steep ogive that makes it aerodynamic as well.

Also, it will obviously depend on the rifle that is firing the bullet as well.

R.W.Dale
August 20, 2011, 01:01 PM
I have not reloaded the 7.5mm, I know bullet selection is slim. So I cannot say for sure. I know the 6.5mm tends to have a much higher BC then 7-7.62mm bullets, this is due to the very tight twist in the 6.5mm bores, they can just stabalize longer, higher SD, more taperd bulles. The larger caliber should be able to use slightly heavier bullets.

I feel a correction is in order.

A lot of folks get caught up in the long 6.5mm bullet romance and mystique. But the reality is that the good ol 30 cal you've been shooting all along has a bullet selection that matches 6.5mm BC for BC and in the case of a few specialty projectiles exceeds it (last I checked about a year back)

In terms of external ballistics and terminal performance the 6.5x55 doesn't do anything the old 06 or to a lesser extent 308 doesn't do with a 1/10" twist. The swedes main claim to fame is that it does it with less recoil.


7.5x55 shoots .308" bullets and is right between 30/06 and 308 in terms of MV so the above comments apply to it too.

---
- Tapatalk post via IPhone.

dubbleA
August 20, 2011, 01:43 PM
Having both a 6.5x284 and a 6.5 Gibbs which easily out perform the Swede didnt stop me from having one.

My latest build chambered in 6.5x55.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/dubbleA/Six%20Point%20Five%20By%20Fifty%20Five/a3.jpg

35 Whelen
August 20, 2011, 04:02 PM
How does the 6.5x55 out of a M38 Swede compare to a 7.5x55 coming out of a Swiss K31?

I own a 6.5x55 and three 7.5x55's. Although the two cartridge cases are the same length, the 7.5 has a larger internal capacity than the 6.5x55. In fact its capacity is just tad less than that of the '06. The 7.5 runs a 174 gr. bullet at about 2540 fps, while the 6.5x55 gets about the same velocity with a 160 gr. bullet.

R.W. Dale hit the nail on the head. So much of the 6.5 Swede's reputation was earned decades ago when good bullet construction was a thing of the future. As such, back then a long skinny bullet (high S.D.) penetrated remarkably better than, and as a result killed better than shorter (low S.D.) bullets.

As I said, I own a 6.5x55 and love it. I think it's a fantastic cartridge for medium game and and elk under reasonable conditions. In fact I suppose it'll kill any animal that you can get a bullet through both lungs. But there's no mystique with either the cartridge itself or a bullet that measures .264". Any caliber bullet of similar construction, velocity, sectional density and aerodynamic shape to a 6.5mm bullet will perform about the same.

35W

rust collector
August 20, 2011, 04:37 PM
No magic to the cartridge, but it reminds us that not everything translates to velocity and energy. 6.5s are very pleasant to shoot, will do a fine job on medium north american game, and provide a reminder that there is also no magic in shortest/fattest/latest.

It is a great comfort to know that obsolete rounds and old fools like me can still get the job done. That's why I love the 6.5 x 55.

USSR
August 20, 2011, 07:31 PM
In terms of external ballistics and terminal performance the 6.5x55 doesn't do anything the old 06 or to a lesser extent 308 doesn't do with a 1/10" twist. The swedes main claim to fame is that it does it with less recoil.

Having shot both the 6.5x55 and .30-06 for many years in 1,000 yard competition, I will respectfully disagree. As far as external ballistics go, a properly loaded modern rifle in 6.5x55 has it all over a properly loaded .30-06, and the .308 doesn't even come close. We are talking about a good 5MOA difference between a hot loaded 6.5x55 and a hot loaded .30-06 at 1k. The less recoil simply adds to the benefit of shooting the Swede.

Don

aka108
August 20, 2011, 07:42 PM
A few years ago I shot some of the most accurate 6.5x55 I ever had the opportunity to try. It was Swedish Crown headstamped and made in 1924. 80+year old stuff.

Maverick223
August 20, 2011, 07:55 PM
I agree with USSR, while the 6.5x55mm lacks a little energy and momentum at hunting ranges it darn near matches the .300WM for long range ballistics (with modern loadings). That isn't to discount the outstanding '06; both are outstanding hunting and target cartridges, and both have served their nations well in combat, but for long range and low recoil the 6.5s are pretty hard to beat.

:)

Kachok
August 21, 2011, 01:45 AM
I feel a correction is in order.

A lot of folks get caught up in the long 6.5mm bullet romance and mystique. But the reality is that the good ol 30 cal you've been shooting all along has a bullet selection that matches 6.5mm BC for BC and in the case of a few specialty projectiles exceeds it (last I checked about a year back)

In terms of external ballistics and terminal performance the 6.5x55 doesn't do anything the old 06 or to a lesser extent 308 doesn't do with a 1/10" twist. The swedes main claim to fame is that it does it with less recoil.


7.5x55 shoots .308" bullets and is right between 30/06 and 308 in terms of MV so the above comments apply to it too.

---
- Tapatalk post via IPhone.
I disagee. I have compared the effecency of different calibers in GREAT detail, and for hunting bullets that can be stabalized in sandard rifle twist rates there is no comparison. While the 7mm and .30 cal are both really good there simply is noting that matches what the 6.5mms can do. OK for a min lets forget that Burger 6.5mm VLD huting bulles exist, let's just compare soft point flat base bullets of the same make and similar sectional densty. 180gr .30 cal Nosler Partion has a BC of .474. The 140gr 6.5 mm partition has a BC of .490. Now lets compare the VLD hunting bullets. The heaviest VLD that a standard 30 cal will stabalize is the 190 gr with an impressive .570 BC, but the 140gr 6.5mm has an even more impressie .612 BC! This is as fair as a comparison can be since the 190gr 30 cal and 140gr 6.5mm have nearly the same SD. If anyoe sees any flaw in my logic feel free to correct me.

Maverick223
August 21, 2011, 02:38 AM
The .30cal. can't quite match a 6.5mm, but the 7mm sure can, and get there with more energy given the same velocity (utilizing the proper twist rate of course). That said, it will have a bit more recoil because TANSTAAFL applies.

:)

PEM
August 21, 2011, 02:58 AM
6.5-55 is an excellent deer cartridge.

R.W.Dale
August 21, 2011, 12:00 PM
I disagee. I have compared the effecency of different calibers in GREAT detail, and for hunting bullets that can be stabalized in sandard rifle twist rates there is no comparison. While the 7mm and .30 cal are both really good there simply is noting that matches what the 6.5mms can do. OK for a min lets forget that Burger 6.5mm VLD huting bulles exist, let's just compare soft point flat base bullets of the same make and similar sectional densty. 180gr .30 cal Nosler Partion has a BC of .474. The 140gr 6.5 mm partition has a BC of .490. Now lets compare the VLD hunting bullets. The heaviest VLD that a standard 30 cal will stabalize is the 190 gr with an impressive .570 BC, but the 140gr 6.5mm has an even more impressie .612 BC! This is as fair as a comparison can be since the 190gr 30 cal and 140gr 6.5mm have nearly the same SD. If anyoe sees any flaw in my logic feel free to correct me.

That's just it. If you want to compare hunting bullets you're going to do so assuming hunting ranges. (inside 500) and at those ranges the minuscule differences in BC you're citing are a gnats fart in the wind compared to the individual atmospheric conditions that may vary from day to day and location to location. That three percent BC change in the case of the partitions you cite is practically NOTHING and is probably within the margin for error in the BC "model" and also be aware that not all commercial 6.5x55's share the same fast twist rate with Swedish military arms of yore.



In other words when the rubber meets the road that 6.5x55 you're getting all starry eyed and romantic over isn't doing a thing my 30/06/270/280ect isn't doing except recoiling less.

In fact when you really look at it objectively. Almost all your full powered medium bore cartridges are so close together in their ballistics external with the right load that you begin to see that touting any one as being vastly superior to another as being silly.


I'll concede to USSR on the 1k stuff since that isn't my thing. However he says 5moa from a 30/o6 and I have to wonder what percent of the total bullet "come up" that 5moa is. (which I understand in competition you take EVERY advantage you can get no matter how small)


---
- Tapatalk post via IPhone.

Kachok
August 21, 2011, 01:11 PM
Agian also incorrect. My T3 6.5x55 has a super tight twist and stabalizes the old 160gr bullets with ease, 140gr VLDs are no problem. Though I will agree that there is noting the 6.5x55 can do that a PROPERLY LOADED 30-06 cannot. Yes the 220gr 30 cal will penatrate as deep as the 160gr 6.5, but the 6.5 will drive much deeper then a 165-180gr that nearly all 06 guys use for big game.

R.W.Dale
August 21, 2011, 02:48 PM
So your t3 has the "proper twist" I did not say ALL I said not all so I can't fathom how I'm incorrect when for example there's a slew of howa m1500's out there with a slower twist rate


---
- Tapatalk post via IPhone.

Kachok
August 21, 2011, 02:53 PM
I cannot speak for the Howa rifes, I never like their stock so I never bought one, but the Tikka, CZ, Sako and every Europian made rifle that I know of uses a 1:8.X twist witch is what the 6.5x55 was designed for. I think the Winchester 70 was also a 1:8 twist too. Besides how many Howa 6.5x55s are out there, I have been a Sweed buff for years and I just learned that Howa camberd it, never even seen one in real life.

R.W.Dale
August 21, 2011, 03:00 PM
I had one of the 6.5x55SE 1-9" m1500's in a carbelite stock back in my milsurp days when I had a couple m96'es and an AG42. I didn't end up keeping it long as it never really did shoot to my satisfaction.

Baba Louie
August 21, 2011, 03:07 PM
6.5x55 tell me about it.1891. Swedes and Norwegians developed new round for their respective militaries rifles (Krag Jorgensen rifles for the Norge, Mausers for the Swedes). Pretty good first effort.

Light recoil, relatively accurate, good penetration, takes out reindeer and alg (moose) with consistancy in Scandanavian countries that have such critters. Does well with North American venison et al, as you can imagine.

Used to be the cartridge used for the Olympic Biathlon before they shifted to the .22 lr.

Not the end all be all, but a very, very fine round none the less.

HOOfan_1
August 21, 2011, 03:24 PM
CZ's website says their 6.5x55 has a 1:9 twist

Onmilo
August 21, 2011, 03:34 PM
6.5X55 is closer to .25/06 performance than .308/.30/06 with better barrel life and more consistent accuracy.

R.W.Dale
August 21, 2011, 03:44 PM
CZ's website says there 6.5x55 has a 1:9 twist

That's one of the other slow twist commercial guns I was trying to remember.

Iirc depending on what year model you end up with I believe there are some "264wm" twist 6.5x55 remrugerchesters floating about.

So yes my assertion is quite valid and not incorrect in the least when I say "not all commercial 6.5x55's have the fast twist needed for all 6.5mm bullets"


---
- Tapatalk post via IPhone.

Kachok
August 21, 2011, 05:14 PM
While I don't own the CZ I have read that they will stabalize the long heavy 160gr RNFB bullets. Nobody make a 170gr so I still don't see your point????

R.W.Dale
August 21, 2011, 06:09 PM
While I don't own the CZ I have read that they will stabalize the long heavy 160gr RNFB bullets. Nobody make a 170gr so I still don't see your point????

It's not so much the bullet weight it's the bullet LENGTH that's in play with twist. As far as 6.5 bullets go the Hornady 160g RN isn't that long a projectile. HOWEVER what are long is those vld's you're infatuated with citing.

And even then it makes my assertion you inadformedly claimed to be false to actually be very correct.


Look Kachok we all go through our cartridge infatuations o the decade spells. I'm no exception. But after awhile you figure out that your pet cartridge is only a certain shaped hole cut into the chamber end of a bbl and it really doesn't do anything different than any of two dozen other similar shaped holes. I'll garentee you that if someone accidentally swapped loaded T3's with you afield one day with the imposter being chambered for say 270 shooting similar loads you nor the critter you were shooting would notice anything amiss till you ejected the shell casing.



At the end of the day they all go BANG and hopefully put a bullet in something downrange. Put more energy into range time and you'll see a much greater benefit in your marksmanship than any perceived superiority your cartridge gains through hours wasted on ballistic comparisons and arguing on web based gun forums.


---
- Tapatalk post via IPhone.

HOOfan_1
August 21, 2011, 07:08 PM
Well the .270 was developed as a hunting cartridge...and for hunting, the .30-06 is just as good, and actually a little better as far as flexibility...but the .270 became extremely popular anyway.

If everyone cared only about cold hard effectiveness in the hunting field...then no one in the US would have moved past .30-06...or possibly .45-70 or .30-30. No one in the British Commonwealth would have moved past .303 and no one in mainland Europe would have moved beyond 7x57 or 8x57...and the Cartridges of the World book would be about 50 pages long instead of 500+.

PreMod70
August 21, 2011, 08:32 PM
I don't own a Swede yet but I seriously considering having my long action Model 70 rebarreled to one, it is presently a .308 Win but as the years go by recoil is becoming a problem and the Swede is spot on for anything I care to shoot. I don't just shoot during hunting season, I shoot a bunch of rounds each year and the light loads the Swede uses is perfect compared to the .243 Win when it comes to barrel life. There is always a little more from one and a little less than others but it is a matter choice as there is no prefect round, that's why I'm still thinking about the .257 Roberts. The European brass keeps me thinking Swede.:)

Kachok
August 21, 2011, 11:08 PM
It's not so much the bullet weight it's the bullet LENGTH that's in play with twist. As far as 6.5 bullets go the Hornady 160g RN isn't that long a projectile. HOWEVER what are long is those vld's you're infatuated with citing.

And even then it makes my assertion you inadformedly claimed to be false to actually be very correct.


Look Kachok we all go through our cartridge infatuations o the decade spells. I'm no exception. But after awhile you figure out that your pet cartridge is only a certain shaped hole cut into the chamber end of a bbl and it really doesn't do anything different than any of two dozen other similar shaped holes. I'll garentee you that if someone accidentally swapped loaded T3's with you afield one day with the imposter being chambered for say 270 shooting similar loads you nor the critter you were shooting would notice anything amiss till you ejected the shell casing.



At the end of the day they all go BANG and hopefully put a bullet in something downrange. Put more energy into range time and you'll see a much greater benefit in your marksmanship than any perceived superiority your cartridge gains through hours wasted on ballistic comparisons and arguing on web based gun forums.


---
- Tapatalk post via IPhone.
I agree about swaping for the 270, you are correct. I don't think any deer would ever know the difference (though your shoulder might).
As far as it being an infatuation I have to disagree, I have been a fan of the 6.5x55 since my childhood many years ago (grandpa was a serious collector of old rifles). I did not use one as my primary hunting rifle until years later (due to ammo availibility) when I started handloaing. Since then my 270, 308, and all my magnums have only seen occasional duity

35 Whelen
August 21, 2011, 11:21 PM
Again, R.W. Dale is right as far as infatuation with cartridges is concerned. One of my biggest and longest was with the 220 Swift. In my younger days, I felt it necessary to prove to the world that the ol' Swift was a viable deer cartridge. And I killed many deer with (this was in the pre-Partition/bonded core/pure copper hollowpoint bullet days) it using nothing more than a Sierra 55 gr. SBT @ 3900 MV.

Next was the 257 Ackley and I even had a short obsession with the 6.5x55 owed to my father telling how well those long skinny 160 gr. Hornady RN's would penetrate.

What I learned from from these love affairs is what I say over and over on these forums; poke a hole through both lungs, and the quarry WILL die. And most any centerfire rifle with a reasonably well constructed bullet will do just that on most thin skinned game.

Trajectory...people worry WAY too much about it these days. Kachok, your post this morning compared the B.C. of some Berger VLD (which incidently they've decided to call a "hunting" bullet...and yes, I've read the articles) bullets. Honestly, the difference in trajectory in the two bullets amount to somewhere around 4"-5" at 500 yds.! Who cares? With the advent of relatively inexpensive range finders, the trajectory of a cartridge or particular bullet should no longer be a deciding factor in the choosing of a cartridge.

Bottom line: The 6.5 Swede is a wonderful cartridge and in my opinion, a fella couldn't go very wrong if he chose one for everything up to and including elk. But it's not a magic pill. It is what it is.

If a man uses a cartridge he believes in, then that is the cartridge with which he'll be more effective.

35W

R.W.Dale
August 21, 2011, 11:28 PM
I agree about swaping for the 270, you are correct. I don't think any deer would ever know the difference (though your shoulder might).
As far as it being an infatuation I have to disagree, I have been a fan of the 6.5x55 since my childhood many years ago (grandpa was a serious collector of old rifles). I did not use one as my primary hunting rifle until years later (due to ammo availibility) when I started handloaing. Since then my 270, 308, and all my magnums have only seen occasional duity

That's cool! Like I said we all have our personal faves, and in my opinion that's as good a reason as any to shoot x vs Y

For a long time my fav was 7.62x39mm and it doesn't do anything as good as just about any cartridge you care to name, But I liked it just the same. For a long time I was a cartridge guy. I just had to have an example of EVERYTHING. At ONE time aside from Italy I had an example of every cartridge fired in anger during wwII and have shot and owned rifles chambered for ALL the "mauser" cartridges. But after awhile it started to be more about the gun-scope-sight package than the cartridge. Nowadays I make cartridge selection on a new purchase more based on bullet logistics with my supplies than ballistics.


But if tomorrow I wanted to buy a light kicking 300yd+ capable deer rifle with more punch than 243 257rob,260rem,7mm08 and the good ol 6.5x55 would be on my very short list suitable cartridges

Kachok
August 22, 2011, 12:17 AM
And that is what I love. Near ballistic perfecton, true sissy kicker recoil, deadly as any small caliber peformance, a slight pop for muzzle report, and a solid 120 year history of taking every species of thin skinned game on the planet (and many thick skinned) You would REALLY have to rack your brain to find a single bad thing to say about it. Very well ballenced. But don't take my word for it, check out the rave review that Chuck Hawk gives the old sweed, he alwas talks very fondly of his Model 70 featherweight. He calls it the ideal CXP2 caliber (along with it's ballistic twin the 260 rem, and the 7mm-08)

If you enjoyed reading about "6.5x55 tell me about it." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!