Smith&Wesson M&P Sport: Range reports and Q&A


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Breakmyfootoff
June 10, 2011, 12:44 AM
Whoever added info to my previous thread for help deciding which rifle to purchase, thank you. After researching the M&P I decided it had the most to offer as a basic rifle. I researched the rifle heavily before deciding to make sure I got the most for my money and thought it might be beneficial to others if I posted my findings here in the forum. I'll list the differences and similarities between the Sport and the regular M&P ARs.

Similarities:
* The Sport uses the same LM&T MPI bolt and carrier group that is in the M&P15, and the gas key is properly staked
*Same forged lower, FCG, buffer, and stock as the M&P15
* The castle nut on the buffer tube is properly staked

Differences:
*Upper receiver is the same material, but lacks provisions for a dust cover or forward assist
* The barrel is a heavy profile 4140 CM steel with a 1 in 8 twist. It is melonite treated which is apparently a compromise between the durability of a chrome lined barrel and the accuracy of an unlined barrel. Supposedly it is much harder and resistant to corrosion than an unlined barrel, but since it doesnt require removal or addition of material like chrome lining, it maintains the accuracy of an unlined barrel
*5R rifling is used in place of the standard 6 groove rifling and is supposed to increase velocity and accuracy without distorting the bullet or copper jacket. 5R rifling is supposedly used in many sniper rifles, more info on 5R rifling can be found here http://www.tcarms.com/technology/5r_rifling.php

Add in that it has a lifetime warranty from one of the largest manufacturers and shares many features of much higher priced rifles, I felt that I could live without a dust cover or forward assist, and if they become necessary items I could always change the upper receiver later.

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C-grunt
June 10, 2011, 12:51 AM
Awesome. We need pics though!!!!

I have been very interested in the Sport as a good budget AR. 5R rifling is what is used on the Army M24 and USMC M40 sniper rifles.

Gtscotty
June 10, 2011, 01:12 AM
Nice, I already picked up a an M&P 15 OR a year or so ago, but the sport model strikes me as a really good deal. If it had been out when I was in the market, I would have been hard pressed to justify spending the extra bucks for the dust cover and FA.

I also like the idea of a melonite treated bore. Unless I'm mistaken, melonite is basically S&W's name for Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, which is currently pretty highly regarded as a bore treatment by a lot of shooters.

benzy2
June 10, 2011, 01:23 AM
I think you made a great choice. Only thing I would be looking to do different on my rifle is get a cheap free float tube. Beyond that, and even then, it should be a great rifle for you.

Breakmyfootoff
June 10, 2011, 02:26 AM
C-grunt Awesome. We need pics though!!!!

I agree, I'll put up some pics in a few :D

Unless I'm mistaken, melonite is basically S&W's name for Ferritic Nitrocarburizing
Bingo!! You probably understand what it is better than I lol, but what I read about it from several sources leads me to believe it is a good thing.

Only thing I would be looking to do different on my rifle is get a cheap free float tube.
My mind is buzzing with ideas for upgrades lol, and thats one of them. I felt this rifle had good quality parts in all the places that count so that it would be a good basic foundation for future upgrades. I'm not gonna get too crazy with it though, I'm just a recreational shooter, not a soldier :).

benzy2
June 10, 2011, 02:32 AM
Yep, I would certainly see how it shoots as is before I messed with anything. I've been thinking of selling my colt lower to buy one of these. For the money, I can't buy an upper, much less a rifle, of equal quality for the money they want for the sport. The FF tube and maybe a trigger and maybe a low profile gas block would be as far as I'd go and even then, they are more niceties than needs.

ugaarguy
June 10, 2011, 03:47 AM
RE: Free float tubes / handguards. Recently picked up a DDM4 with their Omega-X free floating quad rail (it's standard on their M4 line, but not their DDXV line). The Omega-X clamps to their low profile barrel nut, while the regular Omegas clamp to a standard barrel nut; but the concept is the same. Having seen how well it works I'm quite impressed.

The really cool thing about the standard Omega line is that free floats the bbl with no modification to the weapon - it's just a handguard swap. It cost a bit more than some other options, but you'll probably make up most of the price difference vs. gunsmith fees or buying the tools to DIY most other options. Sorry to sound like a DD commercial, but that's my experience with their Omegas.

If you decide to free float, please report on pre and post free float accuracy for us. I've already seen rather impressive accuracy from their 1:9 hard chromed bbls, so I'm very optimistic about the new 1:8 5R bbls.

Fabius
June 10, 2011, 09:09 AM
I also like the idea of a melonite treated bore. Unless I'm mistaken, melonite is basically S&W's name for Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, which is currently pretty highly regarded as a bore treatment by a lot of shooters.

This is one of the reasons I decided to buy the Sport. My research indicated the same. In fact, the Sig 556, Bushmaster ACR, Remington GPC and S&W M&P 15T also have nitrided (melonited) barrels.

Found a study that the Army did in 1967 of different barrel treatments. They tested chromelined, nitride treated and standard chromemoly untreated barrels shooting 5.56 ammo from a machine gun at the rate of 200 rounds per minute. The chromelined barrels "failed" at 33,433 and 43,994 rounds respectively. The nitride treated barrels "failed" at 29,874 and and 26,774 rounds respectively. The untreated barrels lasted a maximum of 12,476 rounds with one "failing" as early as 2,509 rounds.

Conclusion - chromelined was the most wear resistant, nitride was a close second and untreated barrels a distant third. Failure was defined as projectile yaw of 15 degrees in 20 per cent of the shots fired in any round (so 40 rounds out of 200 yawing 15 degrees or more).

So chromelined lasted an average of 38,713 round and nitride treated lasted an average of 28,324 rounds. The untreated chromemoly lasted an average of 6,279 rounds (they tested 5 chromemoly, 2 chromelined and 2 nitride treated barrels). Nitride (melonite) treated barrels last 4 to 5 times as long as untreated barrels. Chrome lined last 6 to 7 times as long as untreated and 1/3 longer than nitride treated barrels.

Based on this information, i'm thrilled with my decision to buy the Sport. Considering that the nitride treated barrels lasted 28,000+ rounds under much more extreme conditions than my rifle will ever see (200 rounds per minute firing rate), I have trouble justifying the extra cost to buy a chromelined barrel.

Link to the study - http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD822736&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

Z-Michigan
June 10, 2011, 10:32 AM
OP: great, I think you will like that model.

When you get a chance, I would really like to see close-up photos of:
-the lower receiver, including trigger guard
-upper receiver, right side (ejection side)
-bolt carrier/carrier key
-the bolt itself, removed from the carrier, side view

Just want to see some construction details. Thanks in advance.

Considering that the nitride treated barrels lasted 28,000+ rounds under much more extreme conditions than my rifle will ever see (200 rounds per minute firing rate), I have trouble justifying the extra cost to buy a chromelined barrel.

The military rejection standard is looser than most sport shooters would accept, and the barrel steel was probably 4150 or CMV, not 4140.... still I would expect that the S&W Melonite-treated barrel will outlast the needs of 99% of the people who buy one, and is very comparable to chrome lining in durability for civilian purposes.

Breakmyfootoff
June 10, 2011, 04:44 PM
If you decide to free float, please report on pre and post free float accuracy for us. I've already seen rather impressive accuracy from their 1:9 hard chromed bbls, so I'm very optimistic about the new 1:8 5R bbls.
I too am interested in the results of that, and would be glad to provide a comparison to the forum when I get a free float handguard for it. I'll even go as far as taking all the tools required to the range for the switch so that there are as few variables as possible between standard and floated.

When you get a chance, I would really like to see close-up photos of:
-the lower receiver, including trigger guard
-upper receiver, right side (ejection side)
-bolt carrier/carrier key
-the bolt itself, removed from the carrier, side view


Here's what I took last night with my cell phone. It has not yet been cleaned in these photos, so it still has all the shipping grease/lube in it. I'm going to clean it, then shoot it, then clean it again today, so I'll provide some better pictures from a real camera tonight :)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg248/breakmyfootoff/2011-06-10_05-08-34_759.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg248/breakmyfootoff/2011-06-10_05-09-11_892.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg248/breakmyfootoff/2011-06-10_05-06-50_40.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg248/breakmyfootoff/2011-06-10_05-11-25_755.jpg

Z-Michigan
June 10, 2011, 05:01 PM
It looks great in the photos. The carrier key staking looks good, and the castle nut is staked, which is omitted on a lot of $800-900 ARs. I really like the new S&W lower with the integrated trigger guard.

Fabius
June 10, 2011, 09:09 PM
The military rejection standard is looser than most sport shooters would accept, and the barrel steel was probably 4150 or CMV, not 4140....

That's correct, barrel steel was 4150. On the other hand, they shot 200 rounds per minute, which means the barrels were getting very hot, which would increase wear per round.

The study is useful, IMO for the comparison between the different types of barrel finishes. Melonite treatment significantly increases barrel life over an untreated barrel and the difference between melonite and chrome lining isn't enough to worry about for civilian use.

The carrier key staking looks good, and the castle nut is staked, which is omitted on a lot of $800-900 ARs.

When I bought my Sport and inspected it I was very pleased with the quality for the price. You can't see in the pictures, but it has fully cut M4 feed ramps, also.

goon
June 10, 2011, 10:33 PM
Good thread! I'm wanting an AR and had planned to spend a little more than the M&P sports are supposedly going to be priced at, but that decision isn't set in stone yet, especially with the features the S&W's are bringing to the table.
Like you, I think I could live without a dustcover, I don't think I'll ever use the forward assist, and I don't think I'll ever wear out even a non-chrome lined barrel.

Breakmyfootoff
June 11, 2011, 12:57 AM
Initial range report:
Went to the range today and put 180 rounds of super cheap wal-mart tulammo 55 grain fmj through it today. It shot really really well even with the cheap ammo. I'm not a master marksman by any means, but at 50 yards, stacking bullet holes on top of each other with open sights off the bench was pretty damn easy. I'm not competent enough at 100 yards with open sights to get small groups, but I had no trouble keeping all shots within a 5 inch circle. Time to get a decent scope I suppose since the rifle is capable of great accuracy at even further distances. I had one stoppage around the 50 round mark where it failed to cycle the bolt far enough to catch the next round out of the magazine. I'm not sure what caused the one failure, but it never happened again.

I hope to have a scope mounted for the next range trip, and I'll purchase some better ammo to see what its really capable of at ranges of 100, 200, and 300 yards.

Z-Michigan
June 11, 2011, 01:05 AM
I'm not competent enough at 100 yards with open sights to get small groups, but I had no trouble keeping all shots within a 5 inch circle.

I wouldn't expect or hope for anything better than a 5" 10+ shot group at 100 yards using Tula ammo, so this is a great result. In fact, I would not expect that gun or most other ARs to do better than 3-4" at 100 yards (again, 10 shot groups) with medium quality US-made brass cased ammo.

I had one stoppage around the 50 round mark where it failed to cycle the bolt far enough to catch the next round out of the magazine. I'm not sure what caused the one failure, but it never happened again.

If it otherwise ran fine, I would bet that one round was underpowered/undercharged, purely an ammunition problem.

Breakmyfootoff
June 11, 2011, 02:47 AM
Because of the 100 yard walk, I never put up more than the one target at that range, so now it looks like someone shot it a few times with 00 buck :o. Going off what you were saying, I guess I'd have to be pretty proud of how I shot lol. I was shooting at 8x10 printer paper with a 1 inch dot in the middle, but at 100 yards, all I could see was the paper, so I just aimed at the middle of the paper. Here's my 100 yard target
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg248/breakmyfootoff/2011-06-11_00-30-05_960.jpg

goon
June 11, 2011, 02:52 AM
Breakmyfootoff - I think you or probably anyone can shoot well at 100 yards with the open sights. You might be surprised how well you can shoot with careful attention. I've shot some really good groups with a FAL and surplus ammo by paying close attention to the front sight. Even if you can't really "see" the bullseye, focus on the front sight and aim for the same place that you "can't see" every time. The way I look at it, I'm no marksman. I wasn't a Navy SEAL, I wasn't even a Marine, I'm just a redneck who loves shooting stuff. If I can shoot groups under or just over an inch with open sights at 100 yards, I don't see why anyone else can't.

Either way though, thanks for the report. I'll be paying attention to this. I've been looking at BCM's midlengths but every time I hit the LGS I look this little LMT carbine they have on the rack over. I like the handling of an M4 type carbine, I'll give it that. It keeps growing on me. But S&W might have made this too good of a rifle to pass up in its price range.

Breakmyfootoff
June 11, 2011, 03:11 AM
You're probably right, I was really just having more fun shooting a new gun than trying for tight groups. Once I get more used to the gun I'll get some better ammo and try for accuracy.

saddlerocker
June 12, 2011, 01:51 PM
Im totally green when it comes to ARs, but what could be done to add a dust cover and FA inexpensivly? Or just the dust cover, probably dont need the FA

Fabius
June 12, 2011, 04:13 PM
but what could be done to add a dust cover and FA inexpensivly? Or just the dust cover, probably dont need the FA

That would be tough, since the upper receiver is forged without the FA hole or the part to attach the dust cover to. Others with more knowledge might be able to answer whether you could buy a stripped upper receiver without the barrel and then replace the Sport upper receiver with the new one. You can get a Spikes Tactical upper receiver with the FA and dust cover already installed for $115. However, that would require removing the barrel from the Sport receiver and installing it on the ST receiver.

I don't know what's involved in doing that, but I believe that it would require special tools, such as a torque wrench, etc.

Breakmyfootoff
June 12, 2011, 06:20 PM
Eventually, I might replace the upper receiver on my newly acquired M&P Sport, but I'm not in a hurry to do so because it's purely a cosmetic upgrade for me. I dont feel like I NEED a forward assist whatsoever, and considering the way I use the rifle, its at higher risk of contaminants from the gas system than it is from the open bolt area :p.

That being said, it is relatively easy to do. The only specialized tools that are required is the barrel nut wrench and torque wrench, but I would also recommend some kind of vice block to hold the receiver firmly while torquing the barrel nut. Bravo Company currently has fully assembled upper receivers for less than 100.00.

So far, I've only added an A2 style carry handle and a vertical grip to the military style hand guards. My planned upgrades in order are :
1 - Magpul CTR buttstock
2 - Free float quad rail
3 - Some kind of optic (not sure what yet)
4 - Upper receiver with FA and dust cover (maybe)
5 - Complete upper in 6.8 :D

basicblur
June 12, 2011, 07:14 PM
You might want to rethink the free floating quad rail (law of diminishing returns etc)?
I dug one o' my spare ARs outta storage and turned it into a HD gun (all accessories were on sale around Christmas). It's the first one I've had a quad rail on, and figuring a free floater was too expensive/too much hassle/overkill ('specially for my use), I opted for a Midwest Industries 2-piece rail carbine (http://dynamicarmament.com/items/ar-15-m-16-quad-rail~handguards/midwest-industries-2-piece-rail-carbine-mctar-17-detail.htm).

Just slightly over $100, easy to install, and appears to be rock solid.

May not be your cup o' tea, but I think way too many folks go overboard with AR accessories.

Might save yourself some time/money/hassle?

Breakmyfootoff
June 12, 2011, 10:44 PM
I'm not planning on hanging a lot of stuff off the quad rail either, I'm actually really happy with the standard guards that come on the rifle. They feel plenty solid, they're light, and they still allow for mounting accessories on the top and bottom. The only accessory I really want to mount on the hand guards is one of those Magpul slanted fore grips, which can be done on the standard guards, so my only real motivation to get any different hand guards would be to float it for accuracy, and even though I dont need a quad rail, I just dont like the way the smooth tubes look. Here's a few new pics, the vertical grip on there now is temporary, it was laying around not being used since I decided I didnt like all the ATI strikeforce stuff on my AK.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg248/breakmyfootoff/IMG_0312.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg248/breakmyfootoff/IMG_0301.jpg

P.S. I have a complete ATI strikeforce furniture set for AKM that I would sell pretty cheap if anyone wants it :p

Apocalypse-Now
June 12, 2011, 10:47 PM
congrats, nice steaking in those pics :)


does s&w indeed have a lifetime warranty on their rifles? last i checked, they listed both a 1 year and lifetime warranty for their AR's, so it was kinda confusing.

i know they advertised just a 1 year warranty when they first came out with AR's, but is that still that case?

Z-Michigan
June 12, 2011, 10:57 PM
what could be done to add a dust cover and FA inexpensivly? Or just the dust cover, probably dont need the FA

The only real option is to replace the upper receiver with a standard one for $100 or so, plus labor if you don't do it yourself.

You really aren't missing anything. If you ever find yourself doing the roving-zombie scenario in a dusty desert, just put some tape across the ejection port and remove it before firing. As for the forward assist, it's main function is to turn minor jams into major jams. Theoretically it can be used to close the bolt very quietly in a tactical situation, but are you ever going to need that?

nipprdog
June 12, 2011, 11:04 PM
congrats, nice steaking in those pics

:neener:

:D :D

Breakmyfootoff
June 13, 2011, 12:02 AM
As for the forward assist, it's main function is to turn minor jams into major jams.

That made me lol a little :p

ugaarguy
June 14, 2011, 03:53 AM
Rather than start another thread (there's also the thread about the nitrided / melonited bbl. of the Sport going) on the M&P-15 Sport, and fragment the info, I figured I'd add my experience here.

I also picked up an M&P-15 Sport on 6/12. As noted previously in this thread the M&P is really a mid tier / pushing top tier AR, missing a dust cover & FA, for a bottom tier price.

Immediately after picking up the Sport I headed to the local indoor 25 yard for break in and test fire. I'd packed all my goodies (eye pro, ear pro, sight tool, etc.) in my range bag, but managed to forget my small bottle of CLP :banghead: . There wasn't much packing lube on the gun, and the bore was clear of obstructions, so I decided to go ahead and run it semi-dry as it was. Ammo was 100 rounds of Hornady Brass Training 55gr FMJ. Mags were the supplied P-Mag, and two C-Products Mags which I had lying around, w/ Magpul anti-tilt copy followers factory installed.

I used the military 25m point blank zero method. Groups were acceptable for sighting in. I, however, am rusty, and need to practice my trigger control :o . After zeroing, and trying to work on my trigger control for a bit with short strings, I fired the remaining 50 rounds rapid fire, standing. Rounds were fired in two groups of 25 shots each, one group from each C-Products mag. I did this to test both the mags, and the rifle in rapid fire. Groups were, once again, acceptable for rapid fire & reiterated my need to work on trigger control.

My initial testing backs up my previous comments here on the Sport. Those previous comments were based on hands on inspection of the Sport, and prior experience with an M&P-15 A. As Z-Michigan has noted, the forward assist really isn't necessary, and may not even be desirable IMO.

The dust cover is also probably of minimal utility on a non-military rifle. If you live in a desert / dusty environment, and ride around with the rifle exposed to the elements (I know some ranchers & farmers actually do) then a dust cover may be something you need. For most needs non-military needs though, even including an LE patrol rifle, an AR type rifle is going to ride around cased and/or in a vehicle. In those cases the dust cover would come open anyway to chamber a round, or during firing.

The barrel has already been discussed at length. I will add that it has proper M4 feed ramps, and the upper does have the proper matching M4 feed ramp extensions.

The forged in trigger guard mimics the Magpul enhanced trigger guard. Unless you plan to use the rifle in truly frigid conditions requiring thick gloves (and I know some of you live in places like Alaska and may actually do this), you shouldn't need to open the bottom of the trigger guard. If you can break the forged in trigger guard, well you've probably damaged the grip and/or mag well also.

My only real gripe is the unshielded handguards. However, single heat shield handguards are under $20 at Brownells, and true M4 style dual heat shielded models can be found for just over $20 at Brownells & many other reputable AR parts websites.

Initial Conclusion: Out of the box, the M&P-15 Sport is a steal. At $600 NIB from the big box places, it shatters the price barrier to get into a quality AR. Adding $25 for upgraded handguards is the only real need I see. I bought this rifle as a cheap backup to a top tier M4gery, and it compares surprisingly well to that rifle which cost nearly twice as much.


Unnecessary, but helpful, info about my background below

To put my opinions on the M&P-15 Sport into perspective, I'll share my background with AR type rifles. I've been shooting AR type rifles since I was a teenager, and now have 12+ years with them (I'm in my late 20s). I also used an M-16A2 quite a bit in the USAF (yes I was in one of those weird AF units that actually went into the field and used small arms). Past AR type rifles I've owned include Colt SP1 (slick-side), DPMS carbine, Olympic A2 HBAR style, LMT Defender 2000, Charles Daly CDM4LE, S&W M&P-15 A, and a pistol based around a Noveske / VLTOR factory upper upper with Noveske 7" Diplomat bbl. Some were traded, and the final one I owned (The LMT) was sold during economic difficulties. Thankfully things recently turned around, and I was able to pick up a DDM4 V1 to get back into a top tier AR. So, when I compare the M&P-15 Sport to other AR type rifles, it's from a perspective of someone who has hands on experience with ARs from all price & build quality tiers.

Breakmyfootoff
June 14, 2011, 05:39 AM
Thanks for adding in a great review! Is there a way for me to add this to the OP as a qoute to keep the pertinent info up front? The "edit" button appears to have disappeared from that post.

ugaarguy
June 14, 2011, 06:22 AM
Maybe just ask one of the mods to change the title to something like "M&P 15 Sport Range Reports and Q&A". That way it might help to keep Sport info from getting fragmented.

Dr.Rob
June 14, 2011, 07:19 AM
Made the change

Breakmyfootoff
June 14, 2011, 09:00 AM
Thank you sir :)

Fabius
June 14, 2011, 09:06 AM
As noted previously in this thread the M&P is really a mid tier / pushing top tier AR, missing a dust cover & FA, for a bottom tier price.

That's why I bought the first Sport that I could find. I'm hoping that S&W will add some competitive pressure to the AR market and force other manufacturers to start offering complete, quality AR's available in retail outlets for a more reasonable price.

The cost of AR's has been, IMO, a barrier to many first time buyers entering the AR market. I know that I was reluctant to spend $1,000+ on a rifle just to see if I would enjoy shooting it. I was also reluctant to spend $700 to order parts online and build a rifle with parts manufactured by a company that I never heard of.

I'm a pistol shooter who was already familiar with S&W products, since I own several of their M&P pistols. I can envision a whole bunch of pistol shooters going into their LGS, seeing an Sport for $600 - the price of one of their pistols - from a company whose reputation they know and trust, and buying a Sport on the spot.

cmdc
June 14, 2011, 12:46 PM
I purchased a M&P Sport about a month ago, having never heard of it. Coincidentally, or because I never noticed it before I bought mine, I started seeing lots of posts, pro and con about this rifle. Yesterday I took it to the range for the first time, and it ran flawlessly, and was supremely accurate. I am very impressed, especially for the price.

Bartholomew Roberts
June 14, 2011, 02:55 PM
I've got to admit, from the few reports I've read, I am really impressed at the quality of rifle that S&W is putting out at a $600 price point. Ultimately, that is good for all of us.

I'm curious about some of the esoteric things on the Sport such as what type of buffer it is using and if anyone has an idea of how the gas port is sized on it. M4 spec is 0.62" but I am guessing the Sport is probably slightly more generously sized for .223 ammo.

ugaarguy
June 14, 2011, 04:50 PM
B. Roberts,

Buffer is standard carbine. I'm off today, and there's a Harbor Freight by the cigar shop. Looks like I'll be buying the calipers I need anyway. What else do you wanna know?

Fabius
June 14, 2011, 08:26 PM
I'm curious about some of the esoteric things on the Sport such as what type of buffer it is using and if anyone has an idea of how the gas port is sized on it. M4 spec is 0.62" but I am guessing the Sport is probably slightly more generously sized for .223 ammo.

Buffer is a standard buffer. The gun feels somewhat overgassed, so I put a heavier buffer. Gun has functioned perfectly with both.

ugaarguy
June 14, 2011, 09:53 PM
Well, the FSB pins will not come loose, so I wont be micing the gas port onthis one. But BR has made me curious.

Bartholomew Roberts
June 14, 2011, 10:47 PM
You are truly a gentleman if you would even consider trying to remove the FSB just to mic the gas port for us. Thanks!

ugaarguy
June 15, 2011, 12:26 AM
No problem. I'll call the range where I shoot and see if I can use their bigger hammers Thursday.

ETA: I'm hoping it's M4 spec on the gas port. With the 16" bbl. there should be enough dwell time or pressure to run .223 with no issues. Hopefully I can find out.

Z-Michigan
June 15, 2011, 12:42 AM
Before you work on it more, why not call S&W? They have excellent customer service and can probably just tell you on the phone.

Breakmyfootoff
June 15, 2011, 12:59 AM
I'm curious about what buffer size to run also. When I had mine at the range, my 9 year old was shooting it and I noticed that the casings were ejecting in such a manner that a left handed shooter would have been pretty uncomfortable lol (around the 5 o'clock direction). I was using the cheap steel cased 55 grain walmart .223 tulammo. I know I remember reading something about buffer weight affecting which way the brass ejected, but I cant remember the specifics.

Edit: Answered my own question. According to this diagram, ejection to the rear would be due to lower gas pressures, which coincides with the cheap wally world ammo I was using. Now I'm anxious to get some mil. spec 5.56 to see if that follows suit according to the diagram.
http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/Quentin68/ARejectionpattern.jpg

Fabius
June 15, 2011, 01:32 AM
My understanding is that brass should be ejecting at about 4:00, but if the rifle is over gassed, it will be coming out in the 2:00 to 3:00 direction. I put a Spikes ST-T2 buffer, which is between and H and H2 buffer weight, and the brass seemed to be ejecting at about 4:00 after the change. However, I was shooting in an indoor range and the brass was bouncing off the lane enclosure, so it was hard to tell the exact angle of ejection. I'm planning to go to an outdoor range this weekend and should be able to see better where the brass is landing.

I've read that S&W carbines (all models, not just the Sport), tend to be over gassed. As suggested, that may be to allow proper cycling with lower powered .223 ammo. I'm shooting XM193, which is full powered 5.56, so I decided to install a heavier buffer. When I replace the buffer spring I'll probably try a Wolff extra strength spring.

in any event, the rifle has functioned flawlessly with both buffers, so I don't think that this is a critical item.

Edit: Just saw the chart above. Using XM193, my brass is definitely not ejecting in the yellow range of the chart. Try some full powered 5.56 and I think that you'll find that the ejection angle will be in the blue or even red range.

Good thing is that we know, between our two experiences, that the Sport will function reliably with everything from steel cased, lower powered .223 ammo up to full powered, brass cased 5.56. Good to know.

ugaarguy
June 27, 2011, 06:21 AM
I've added Troy MRF-CX handguards, and a Daniel Defense QD stud receiver extension end-plate to the Sport. Even with the extra money money in those parts, I still think the M&P Sport is inexpensive for what it is. The bigger deal is the build quality this rifle is demonstrating.

The stock end-plate was very well staked to the RE castle nut. I had to absolutely crank on the castle nut to break it free from the stock end-plate so I could install the DD part.

As noted in a previous post, I'd attempted to take the FSB off in order to mic the gas port. I'd really pounded on those pins with hammer & punch, to no avail. I also had to push out the roll pin to remove the fixed sling swivel from the FSB to install the new handguard set. That FSB has taken a beating.

Last, I'd played with the supplied rear sight a bit, because I was going to set it so I could try out the Santose Battle Zero. None of my small SAE Allen wrenches would fit, so I returned the sight to zero. I'll have to call S&W in a few hours when they open and see what they say about the rear sight assy. Point is, the sight was cranked up, then brought back to zero.

So, after pounding on the FSB, installing a new free float handguard set, and monkeying with the rear sight; I was sure my zero would be off. I returned to the local indoor range to reset my 25m point blank zero. The zero was still dead on. Pounding on the FSB pins like I did would have knocked the windage off if this rifle wasn't put together as well as it is. Running the rear sight elevation drum up, and then back down would have knocked the elevation off if S&W was supplying a cheap rear sight to cut costs. Neither happened - the rifle held zero. This is just another demonstration of how well S&W building this $600 rifle.

My groups were a bit tighter, but I think it's just me regaining my lost trigger control more than the FF handguard at the short range. I'll be off later in the week, so I'll see if I can schedule time to shoot this it at 100 yards & more at the local semi-private range. I'll source some higher end ammo for the range trip to see just what this 5R bbl. will do free floated. I'll of course post a report after the range session.

If the rest of the Sports have FSBs pinned on as tight as mine, I think drop in handguards will be the way to go. Drop ins also help to avoid gunsmithing and/or personal tools costs, which stays with the economical quality theme of the Sport, IMO.

As for the Troy MRF-CX handguards (this is the 12" model that extends past the FSB), installation was quite easy. I carefully cut the delta ring with a cutoff wheel in my Dremel, and then removed the spring & c-clip with heavy pliers as per the supplied instructions. I used a picatinny riser clamped across the upper receiver and onto the handguard's top rail to square it - hat tip to the DIY tutorials over at AR15.com. Other than that, I followed the very simple supplied instructions. I found the MRF-CX handguards at Cheaper Than Dirt for $185 plus shipping. The price wasn't much more than many of the other 7" direct replacement (non-free float) handguards from Troy and other quality makers.

The DD Omega-X 12 FSP (factory installed on my DD M4 V1) is lighter, a bit thinner, and a bit nicer IMO. However, the Troy has to be a bit wider to allow leaving the old handguard cap underneath for easier installation. The Troy MRF has a more rounded shape than the DD Omega-X, which some may prefer. I'm fine with either, and the width difference is minor. While I really like the DD Omega, I also really like the Troy MRF. Ease of installation, and a 1/3 lower price tag are nice features of the MRF as well. Aside from weight the Troy unit compares very favorably to the DD Omega-X line in terms of fit, finish, and manufacturing quality. I also can't stress enough how much the new handguard set has helped with heat dissipation over the unshielded stock HG set.

Breakmyfootoff
June 27, 2011, 04:13 PM
We're gonna have to have some pics with the new handguards :)

ugaarguy
June 28, 2011, 02:26 AM
We're gonna have to have some pics with the new handguards :)
Ohh, so you want pictures now? ;)

M&P Sport side by side with DD M4 V1 for comparison.

144651

144652

ugaarguy
June 28, 2011, 02:28 AM
Close ups for width comparison.

144653

144654

Breakmyfootoff
June 29, 2011, 04:18 AM
That really looks good! Those guards that go past the front sight really change the way the gun looks. I had kinda already decided to just get a complete MOE furniture set for 100.00 and be done with it, but now I'm thinking about one of those :cuss: . I think I also might go ahead and get an upper receiver with the dust cover and FA even though I dont really need it (I dont really NEED the furniture either for that matter lol).

Acelaw
June 29, 2011, 07:46 AM
Are these still available anywhere for $599?

Breakmyfootoff
June 29, 2011, 08:43 AM
I have to go to Academy today, I'll check while I'm there.

PodPeople
June 29, 2011, 12:18 PM
Academy is having a sale this week - the M&P Sport is $549.99.

christcorp
June 29, 2011, 07:19 PM
That would be tempting. If there weren't any sales on M&P15's at $750, with a $100 rebate, bringing it to $650..... I'd be very tempted to get an M&P15-Sport. We all know that the main difference between the sport and the normal run of M&P15's is:
1. No Dust Cover: For some; no big deal. For some, especially those who lube with grease and not oil, it's nice to be able to cover the BCG.
2. No forward assist: Except for chambering a round in "Stealth mode" which is actually more common, because there are some that don't like leaving a loaded round in the chamber, the Forward assist isn't necessary. It's nice to slowly load a round, manually go forward, then use the forward assist to finish chambering. It's very quiet. However; i'm old school, and learned in the military how to go stealth, before forward assists existed. We simply use our thumb on the scallop of the BCG. But for most, it isn't important.
3. It doesn't have heat shields on the forearm grips. If you don't shoot a lot, no big deal. If you shoot a couple hundred rounds at an outing, you'll find yourself spending $50-$75 for a new set of forearm grips with shielding.
4, The sights are also pretty cheap. If you don't mind, it's not a problem. If you're going to spend money on new sights, you're going to spend at least the $100 you saved on getting the sport.
5. Then there's the chrome barrel thing. Melonite is good, but not as good as chrome lined. It goes; 1) Steel 2) Chrome Moly 3) Melonite 4) chrome lined. Some say that melonite is almost as good as chrome lined. Well, ALMOST is relative. If you don't shoot a lot of rounds, then melonite is ALMOST as good. If you shoot a lot; e.g. 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, then chrome lined is better. It's about 30% more durable. And don't believe the "We shot 170,000 rounds in a test..." crap. 25,000-35,000 is about the number of rounds in a chrome lined barrel. Depending on the ammo. About then, you should be looking at a new barrel if you want any decent accuracy. With melonite, it's closer to 15,000-22,000 rounds. Again; for the person shooting 1000-2000 rounds per year, no problem. For the person shooting 5,000-10,000 rounds per year, you're looking at a considerable savings by having a chrome lined.

There's also some other differences in the sport and the other models. Again; the price you show is a very good price. But it depends on what you are going to do with the rifle, and how much shooting you are going to do. If you want the BEST ACCURACY, go with a stainless steel barrel. But you're going to replace it much sooner. And you need to take extra care with it so it doesn't corrode/rust. If you shoot a lot, then get chrome lined. it lasts the longest. If you want a cheap compromise, you go with chrome moly or melonite. But for the average plinker, I think the Sport is a great rifle. especially for the price.

Acelaw
June 29, 2011, 08:41 PM
Isn't the $100 rebate leo only or something?

Breakmyfootoff
June 29, 2011, 09:28 PM
Just got back from Academy, and it is indeed 549.00 until Saturday, if you can find one. My local Academy is out of stock on the Sport.

benzy2
June 30, 2011, 12:21 AM
5. Then there's the chrome barrel thing. Melonite is good, but not as good as chrome lined. It goes; 1) Steel 2) Chrome Moly 3) Melonite 4) chrome lined. Some say that melonite is almost as good as chrome lined. Well, ALMOST is relative. If you don't shoot a lot of rounds, then melonite is ALMOST as good. If you shoot a lot; e.g. 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, then chrome lined is better. It's about 30% more durable. And don't believe the "We shot 170,000 rounds in a test..." crap. 25,000-35,000 is about the number of rounds in a chrome lined barrel. Depending on the ammo. About then, you should be looking at a new barrel if you want any decent accuracy. With melonite, it's closer to 15,000-22,000 rounds. Again; for the person shooting 1000-2000 rounds per year, no problem. For the person shooting 5,000-10,000 rounds per year, you're looking at a considerable savings by having a chrome lined.

For me, I find the melonite type finish to be the best option of the bunch. You can take a quality chrome moly barrel that is a bit more accurate than a chrome lined barrel and keep accuracy quite a bit longer than a bare chrome moly or SS barrel. A quality chrome moly barrel will shoot very close to a quality SS barrel. Toss on a finish that makes it last twice as long and it's a very smart choice for many shooters. Personally I'd love a Wilson blank finished by WOA and the nitride coated. Much longer lasting than without and a much better shooter than chrome lined. Its a great compromise for someone who is looking for an accurate barrel that will last a long time. Though I will say this is all more on the idea of Melonite and not saying that S&W has or hasn't made a good shooter out of these barrels.

christcorp
June 30, 2011, 12:45 AM
For me, I find the melonite type finish to be the best option of the bunch. You can take a quality chrome moly barrel that is a bit more accurate than a chrome lined barrel and keep accuracy quite a bit longer than a bare chrome moly or SS barrel. A quality chrome moly barrel will shoot very close to a quality SS barrel. Toss on a finish that makes it last twice as long and it's a very smart choice for many shooters. Personally I'd love a Wilson blank finished by WOA and the nitride coated. Much longer lasting than without and a much better shooter than chrome lined. Its a great compromise for someone who is looking for an accurate barrel that will last a long time. Though I will say this is all more on the idea of Melonite and not saying that S&W has or hasn't made a good shooter out of these barrels.
Again; nothing wrong with Melonite. But if you are a mega-shooter, and shoot 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, a chrome lined barrel is better for you. Again; you have to realize what you want the gun to do for you. If you used the gun for what it was designed for; SHOOTING PEOPLE AT/UP TO 100+/- yards; and practicing for that; then a chrome lined barrel is way more than accurate enough. Even the Mil-Standard is for Chrome Lined.

Now; if you are wanting to turn your AR into a 300-600 yard target rifle, and you're looking at competition type accuracy, then I'd be looking at a stainless steel barrel. I shoot regularly at 300+ yards, but NOT with my AR. I practice shooting those distances for elk, sheep, ram, etc... hunting. I practice those shots with my 7mm magnum. I personally don't get into shooting targets as an objective. Shooting targets is simply practice for shooting the live target. Either animal or human. For me, the .223/5.56 is for shooting humans.

But; because I shoot 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, and yes a lot of it is simply enjoyable, I want a barrel that will last the longest while maintaining the necessary accuracy to hit a human target with open sights at 100+/- yards. That's why I want chrome lined.

Again; nothing wrong with a melonite barrel on an AR. And there's nothing wrong with getting an M&P15-Sport. But for me, the sport wouldn't have fit my requirements.
1) I don't want a fixed sight on the front. Matter of fact, I have too many sights. I didn't want ANY SIGHTS. Or at least the ability to remove them.
2) I wanted a barrel that would last the longest. That's Chrome Lined.
3) Because I shoot a lot, I didn't want to spend and extra $50-$75 for a new set of forearm grips that had heat shields in them.

Nothing wrong with the Sport at all for most average AR owners. I got the AR I wanted, and it only cost $100 more. But with adding new forearm grips, it would be close to a break even on price. And I'm not going to consider the melonite being more accurate. At that level of accuracy, it's more the shooter than the gun. My Chrome lined M&P15-OR, I can shoot a 4"x4" square at 100 yards, with open/red sights, and put ALL 30 rounds from the magazine in that square. That's plenty good enough for me. And my barrel will last a few more years than the melonite.

basicblur
June 30, 2011, 01:04 AM
I always get a kick outta folks that say chrome lining is accurate enough
BUT
should you ever dare mention foregoing a free floating rail for a drop-in... :uhoh:

You know who you are... :D

ugaarguy
June 30, 2011, 01:30 AM
3. It doesn't have heat shields on the forearm grips. If you don't shoot a lot, no big deal. If you shoot a couple hundred rounds at an outing, you'll find yourself spending $50-$75 for a new set of forearm grips with shielding.
Already been addressed, and you're inflating that number massively. It's actually $18 for single shield, and $23 for double shield at Brownells. Here's a listing for some very nice surplus M4 handguards for $10 - http://www.gunrunners.com/index.php?a=2&b=2535
4, The sights are also pretty cheap. If you don't mind, it's not a problem. If you're going to spend money on new sights, you're going to spend at least the $100 you saved on getting the sport.
To quote myself from post #44
So, after pounding on the FSB, installing a new free float handguard set, and monkeying with the rear sight; I was sure my zero would be off. I returned to the local indoor range to reset my 25m point blank zero. The zero was still dead on. Pounding on the FSB pins like I did would have knocked the windage off if this rifle wasn't put together as well as it is. Running the rear sight elevation drum up, and then back down would have knocked the elevation off if S&W was supplying a cheap rear sight to cut costs. Neither happened - the rifle held zero. This is just another demonstration of how well S&W building this $600 rifle.
The rear sight is a virtual copy of the standard rear sight on LMT rifles. As noted above, it's a good quality piece. The front sight is the same F height FSB seen on countless other high end rifles - see quote above if you think S&W is using a cheap FSB on this rifle. If you just don't like the rear sight, a MagPul MBUS is $60 from a host of online sources. The Daniel Defense A1.5 fixed rear sight is of superb quality, and it's only $65 - that's a far cry from the $100 you're claiming.
5. Then there's the chrome barrel thing. Melonite is good, but not as good as chrome lined. It goes; 1) Steel 2) Chrome Moly 3) Melonite 4) chrome lined. Some say that melonite is almost as good as chrome lined. Well, ALMOST is relative. If you don't shoot a lot of rounds, then melonite is ALMOST as good. If you shoot a lot; e.g. 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, then chrome lined is better. It's about 30% more durable. And don't believe the "We shot 170,000 rounds in a test..." crap. 25,000-35,000 is about the number of rounds in a chrome lined barrel. Depending on the ammo. About then, you should be looking at a new barrel if you want any decent accuracy. With melonite, it's closer to 15,000-22,000 rounds. Again; for the person shooting 1000-2000 rounds per year, no problem. For the person shooting 5,000-10,000 rounds per year, you're looking at a considerable savings by having a chrome lined.

See post #8 for link to US Army study. The ferritic nitrocarburized achieved 3/4 the durability of barrels that had a Stellite front third lining, and hard chrome lined remainder; under full auto belt fed firing. Stellite is far harder than chrome, and the front third Stellite lining is used in M2 HMG bbls. The chrome moly bbls. made 1/3 the round count of the Stellite / hard chrome hybrid lined bbls at best, and about 1/10 the round count on average. Take away the Stellite front third, and go to all hard chrome; and the difference between ferritic nitrocarburizing & chrome lining will likely close even further. Unlined / untreated chrome moly bbls aren't even in the same league as the two most durable options.
If you want the BEST ACCURACY, go with a stainless steel barrel. But you're going to replace it much sooner. And you need to take extra care with it so it doesn't corrode/rust. If you shoot a lot, then get chrome lined. it lasts the longest. If you want a cheap compromise, you go with chrome moly or melonite.
Again, chrome moly isn't event in the same league as ferritic nitrocarburizing. Calling a Melonite bbl. a cheap compromise, and equivalent to untreated chrome moly is a joke. Don't forget, this isn't just a run of mill bbl that's been Melonited either - it's a T/C manufactured 5R bbl. Those bbls, untreated, have proven themselves incredibly accurate in the Venture & Icon rifles. Let some Sport owners get some long range testing in, and we'll see about accuracy.

Let me also be clear - I'm not defending this rifle because I own one. I own one because of the value it represents. I'm defending the M&P Sport because someone (S&W in this case) has built a very high quality AR type rifle at $600 street price. If DPMS, Bushmaster, or whomever else will build a rifle of this quality at a similar price point; and I'll extoll it's virtues. Right now, S&W is redefining what a value model AR carbine is.

benzy2
June 30, 2011, 03:57 AM
christcorp,

If all that matters is barrel life, chrome lined is better as you have stated. If all that is important is accuracy it seems SS has a slight edge of chrome moly, though I'm not so sure that is totally true. I find though that while I'm not a 5-10k round per year .223 shooter, I enjoy the extra barrel life from the melonite type finish without giving up accuracy to the chrome lined bore. While chrome lined doesn't have to be inaccurate, I haven't seen a ton that looked amazing when punching paper on the AR system. On the other hand, quite a few of the different nitride coatings have shown a decent increase in barrel life without sacrificing accuracy of the chrome moly barrel. To me its the perfect trade off because how I shoot, I don't want chrome lined to start but don't mind the extra barrel life. I've lost most interest in shooting anything alive so my enjoyment comes at the range. As such, a nice paper puncher is at the top of my list rather than a combat or hunting capable tool. Different strokes for different folks.

I can understand the heavy user not wanting this rifle, but lets be honest, it certainly isn't marketed to the heavy user. Still, for $550, it's got a bit going for it. Swap out the upper for a standard upper, buy the float tube and low profile gas block of choice, sell the rear sight, and depending on the rail, you could still be under $1k with a top tier bolt/bcg, a nice middle ground accuracy/durability barrel, with the parts you want. If you go with a simple float tube without rails you could be out for under $800.

Fabius
June 30, 2011, 09:03 AM
I'm defending the M&P Sport because someone (S&W in this case) has built a very high quality AR type rifle at $600 street price

That's one of the reasons that I've been posting on this and other forums about the Sport. Before the Sport came out I was getting frustrated with AR manufacturers and the options they offered. Many are, IMO, almost arrogant in their approach.

Want a Colt, Noveske, etc? Pay $1,000+. Not interested in customers who are looking for a more economical alternative.

Want a BCM or Spikes Tactical? Get in line and wait a few months.

Want a rifle for less than $800? Buy something with a plastic lower or unlined, untreated barrel.

Want a rifle with a barrel that won't be shot out in 5,000 rounds? Pony up for expensive chrome lining.

I'm grateful to S&W because they are offering an alternative to their customers and showing a little innovation. Get rid of the forward assist because it is an unnecessarily complicated feature that adds nothing to the functionality of the gun. Eugene Stoner opposed adding a forward assist at all and opposed the design the Army eventually adopted because it was more complicated and expensive than alternative designs.

Get rid of the dust cover. Most civilian users don't need it.

Melonite treat the barrel to give decent barrel life at a lower cost and greater accuracy. Add 5R rifling because you can and it adds value without increasing cost.

So, IMO, Smith and Wesson stepped up. They are offering customers a product that other manufacturers have been unable or unwilling to come up with. It fits my needs. I think that it is every bit as good of a product as most mid and upper tier AR's on the market. Regardless, it is clearly superior to anything else in its price range.

68wj
June 30, 2011, 09:42 AM
Melonite (others call it QPQ, Nitro Carborized, Tennifer, and WASP) does more than harden the bore from wear, it is also a corrosion inhibitor. A melonite barrel appears blued rather than the phosphate coating of most AR barrels. Those that have freefloat forearms, when is the last time that you removed yours and wiped down the exterior of the barrel?

http://m.b5z.net/i/u/6132121/i//corrosin.jpg

christcorp
June 30, 2011, 10:27 AM
Some of you really do need to stop reading into posts. We don't want to sound like that "Other site". I have said more times than I can count that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Sport model of the M&P15. And if it's a $550-$600 for the sport, vs a $750-$800 for an OR or Standard M&P15, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting the sport. Especially for the average shooter.

But for the person who is not the average shooter, who shoots a lot more, I think the Chrome Lined models are a better choice. If you can get an OR or a standard M&P15 on sale; PLUS can get one of the yearly rebates, and can get the M&P15 for $650, "Like I did", then I think that's the better deal. But head to head, for the average shooter, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the sport.

For clarification: I was quoting the price of replacing the forearm grips, not just adding heat shields. As for sights, I was quoting my needs. I didn't have a need for a rifle with sights. I have plenty. I use optics; mainly red-dots. I want to be able to either have NO FRONT SIGHT, or at least a folding front. The sport wouldn't allow that for me. And as for accuracy, some of you are way overstating the supposed better accuracy of melonite vs chrome lined. I would say that any shooter, shooting both, at 100 yards, is going to be comparable. it is NOT going to be a significant difference in accuracy. Now; if you want to talk 300-600 yards for competition type shooting; have at it. Sorry, but anyone who starts mentioning "MOA" in a forum post, automatically turns me off from caring what they say. They automatically tells me that they aren't looking at the rifle for what it was designed for, but rather as some sport/competition gun. That's fine. Just not what i care about.

Just like "Some" of you don't give a rat's a$s about a forward assist or dust cover, some of us don't give a rat's a$s about gaining 1/2-1moa from having a melonite over chrome lined. Matter of fact, if I see people posting that they shoot "Sub 1moa at 100 yards", I usually think they are FOS anyway. But if that's what they're into, have at it. "Basicblur: That is what i mean by chrome lined being accurate enough". Even mil-spec, (Which I don't really emphasize), is for chrome lined. And that's what i am. Military. Retired after 21 years. I was trained on the M4/M16. My purpose for one, and what I expect from it, is obviously different than some people here. That's cool.

Again, for the 2,453,584 time; the Sport is an excellent weapon. It's a great price. But don't make it out to be S&W's new TOP OF THE LINE rifle. It's not better. In many ways it's equal to all the other M&P15 series. In some ways, it's not. In most ways, the areas that it isn't as good, are irrelevant to most people. That's what makes the Sport such a great weapon. It doesn't need to be at the same spec as the other M&P15's for most people's uses.

ugaarguy
July 1, 2011, 01:31 AM
But for the person who is not the average shooter, who shoots a lot more, I think the Chrome Lined models are a better choice. If you can get an OR or a standard M&P15 on sale; PLUS can get one of the yearly rebates, and can get the M&P15 for $650, "Like I did", then I think that's the better deal. But head to head, for the average shooter, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the sport.
All M&P-15s (including the Sport) use 4140 steel for their bbls. If anyone is concerned with ultimate durability they should look strongly at Daniel Defense or Bravo Company, who offer barrels which are cold hammer forged from MIL-B-11595E steel. Noveske, who uses M249 SAW bbl blanks with hard chroming twice as thick as M4/M16 chrome lining would be an even better choice. If I shoot out the bbl. on my Sport I'll replace it with a DD CHF bbl. (like the one on my DD M4 V1). Some folks also want to shoot 75 gr and heavier bullets, which 1:7 and 1:8 twist bbls. are better suited for than 1:9 twist bbls.
For clarification: I was quoting the price of replacing the forearm grips, not just adding heat shields.
I was the one who wasn't clear enough. Those prices I quoted were for a complete pair of handguards with the heat shields; not a heat shield to put into the handguards, as my previous wording made it seem.
As for sights, I was quoting my needs. I didn't have a need for a rifle with sights. I have plenty. I use optics; mainly red-dots. I want to be able to either have NO FRONT SIGHT, or at least a folding front. The sport wouldn't allow that for me.
4, The sights are also pretty cheap. If you don't mind, it's not a problem. If you're going to spend money on new sights, you're going to spend at least the $100 you saved on getting the sport.
That's intellectually dishonest. You're stating that the Sport needs new sights, which it doesn't. Then you compare it to the M&P-15 OR, which includes neither sights, nor an optic. You ignore that you'll need to spend at least that same $100 to get sights on the OR, if not more more for a decent optic. So, the real math is: M&P Sport on sale for $550 + $0 for sights = $550 vs. M&P OR for $750 - $100 rebate check + $100 for sights (or more for optic) = $750 minimum. For the record, I still think that's a great price, and a great value on the M&P OR.

Honestly, I think we're talking past each other on these rifles. Both the Sport and the OR are great values for their respective purposes. There's nothing truly wrong with either rifle (unlike some competitors who sell similarly priced rifles with out of spec chambers, or unlined / untreated bbls, or a bunch of heavily worn surplus parts in the build).

As for the forward assist, VLTOR is selling their rather high end MUR (Modular Upper Receiver) in two configurations, one of which doesn't have the forward assist. You didn't mention it, but for anyone else who's curious Noveske is also offering a lower with the trigger guard as an integral part of the forging. Again, just comes down to preference.

Military. Retired after 21 years. I was trained on the M4/M16. My purpose for one, and what I expect from it, is obviously different than some people here. That's cool.
From a fellow veteran (4 years USAF), Thank you for your service.

chris in va
July 1, 2011, 02:31 AM
No problems at all with my Sport after 1000 of my reloads. I'm more than satisfied and happy with the purchase. My LGS got a dozen of them in back in March, and I managed to get the very last one in early May. They're hot sellers.

Also a 4 year veteran of the USAF.

benzy2
July 2, 2011, 01:09 PM
Sorry, but anyone who starts mentioning "MOA" in a forum post, automatically turns me off from caring what they say. They automatically tells me that they aren't looking at the rifle for what it was designed for, but rather as some sport/competition gun.Don't know how much or little of the entire post was pointed to me, but look at the title of the rifle. M&P Sport. Makes me think this rifle was intended for sport. I find your post a bit condescending to be honest. Enjoy what you shoot. No need to be a jerk to those who are interested in something else. For someone who's looking for a heavy use combat rifle, this isn't it. For someone who is looking for a budget accurate fun rifle with a bit of longevity, this fits well. It's nothing more or less than what it is. It has it's target customer, and those aren't people looking to abuse the absolute snot out of a rifle.

Zerodefect
July 2, 2011, 01:46 PM
E
1 - Magpul CTR buttstock
2 - Free float quad rail
3 - Some kind of optic (not sure what yet)
4 - Upper receiver with FA and dust cover (maybe)
5 - Complete upper in 6.8 :D

1-I'd recommend the ACS over the CTR.
2- Send your upper to ADCO, they'll chop the front sight off and install a long FF rail. I prefere the Larue 12-13".
3-Depends on your useage. Aimpoint LM# 2moa dot/squid in a Larue LT129 cantilever is very nice.

Zerodefect
July 2, 2011, 01:49 PM
Melonite (others call it QPQ, Nitro Carborized, Tennifer, and WASP) does more than harden the bore from wear, it is also a corrosion inhibitor. A melonite barrel appears blued rather than the phosphate coating of most AR barrels.

Those that have freefloat forearms, when is the last time that you removed yours and wiped down the exterior of the barrel?

\]

I generally just hose the upper down with CLP spray, and wipe clean what I can reach while the barrel drips dry.

I only take my FF rail off when there is dirt caked in there.

Breakmyfootoff
July 2, 2011, 06:25 PM
Thanks for the recommendations zero, ADCO looks like a good place to have in the bookmarks list. Obviously I dont NEED a free float tube/quad rail, I'm just trying to decide if I want it enough to spend a couple hundred dollars for it. I'm also looking at the MOE set in OD green too.

Acelaw
July 4, 2011, 09:02 PM
I bought the Sport as a fathers day/july 4 present. I know next to nothing about ARs so this is probably a dumb question. Can anything be mounted on the Sport handguard as it is shipped from the factory? I don't have a need to mount anything really but I was just wondering if it's an option. Doesn't seem to have a picatinny type system up front. Thanks

Breakmyfootoff
July 4, 2011, 11:21 PM
Rails can be added to the holes on the top and bottom of the original hand guards. I think Midway has them for around 10.00, or you might be able to find some locally.

Apocalypse-Now
July 6, 2011, 02:18 AM
I had one stoppage around the 50 round mark where it failed to cycle the bolt far enough to catch the next round out of the magazine. I'm not sure what caused the one failure, but it never happened again.

could be the mag follower tilting. what kind of mag did it happen with?

Breakmyfootoff
July 6, 2011, 08:41 AM
could be the mag follower tilting. what kind of mag did it happen with?

Wish I had thought to take note of which magazine it was at the time :banghead: . It came with a PMag in the box, and when I bought the rifle I also picked up one extra mag (metal "pro mag" with a green follower). I still havent purchased any more magazines and alternating between those 2 magazines I now have about 600 rounds through it without any additional problems. Most of it has been the cheap Monarch 55 grain from Academy. I really need to order some ammo online.

Apocalypse-Now
July 6, 2011, 11:05 AM
^^it wouldn't surprise me if it were the pro mag lol my experiences with those aren't great lol.

the pmags are generally good stuff. usually pretty cheap too.

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