Russian Mfg-Steel case ammo


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Usmc-1
June 10, 2011, 09:56 AM
All right I didnt see another section for ammo other than reloads , so Im gonna you guys your thoughts on this ammo , its so cheap just curious if its reliable at all , Im sure its as old as the 1911 I'll be shooting it with , but my god "500" rounds for 127 bucks!!! How many FTF's could it be?

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Nushif
June 10, 2011, 10:01 AM
Up on Mary's Peak it's a time honored tradition for people to roll up with their tricked out AR-15s and an assortment of other weapons, and then bust out some russian steel ammo.

Much to my dismay, because they by default don't leave brass behind. 8(

But other than that I've never noticed them having problems.

Remllez
June 10, 2011, 10:10 AM
Sounds like a great buy to me! I have bought and shot steel ammo in a couple different calibers and had good luck with it. For trigger time I thinks it's a fiscally sound choice. I'm not sure I would carry it...(ball)... for CCW but practice with it makes sense to me.

Usmc-1
June 10, 2011, 10:12 AM
no I wont be carrying it , I would like some practice ammo and this seems to fit the bill!

galena
June 10, 2011, 12:25 PM
I've shot several thousand rounds of Wolf .45ACP with absolutaly no problems. It is dirty so good cleaning habits are a must.

On the other hand, I bought a bunch of Wolf .40SW and have had nothing but problems. The only pistol I have that will digest the stuff is my Glock 23. Everything else, S&W M&P, Colt Series 80 MK IV (of course the Colt wouldn't shoot anything else either) and Browning Hi-Power all had multiple FTE, only with the Wolf, everything else works great.

Give it a try for practice ammo. Keep shootin'

Usmc-1
June 10, 2011, 03:09 PM
well it be fired through my colt govt series 80 mk 4 , we'll see and Ill let ya know if im gonna have a sale my self!

Heretic
June 10, 2011, 07:39 PM
My AR prints 2 moa with remington bulk ammo, but prints 6 moa with tulammo, and 9 with some really cheap crap they won't even put a brand on.

Also the only "fail to extract" I've had with the weapon was russian crap.

However, I hear Wolf is OK, but I haven't shot any.

NoobCannon
June 10, 2011, 08:27 PM
Haven't had any issues with Tula in my .40. Haven't gotten my hands on it in any other caliber, so I don't know if I just got lucky with it.

Mr.454
June 10, 2011, 08:35 PM
The only thing it will do is smell bad and chew up your extractor. I've used brown bear, silver bear, wolf, and tula. Best groups were with Wolf in .223. The Tula ammo seriously smells like rhino fart, my wife refuses to shoot it even with a breeze.

Strahley
June 10, 2011, 08:47 PM
I've never had a problem with steel ammo, of any caliber. In fact, I don't care to own a gun that can't cycle it

SGW42
June 10, 2011, 08:54 PM
My P220 eats it up.

Steel case shoots sloppy groups in my rifles, but the pistol stuff always works for me and is on par with the brass. If the range lets me shoot it, I figure double the trigger time.

WardenWolf
June 10, 2011, 09:02 PM
Silver Bear is the cream of the crop of the Russian ammo. It's very nice, very accurate, and it's often cheaper than Wolf. The zinc plating fixes a lot of the extraction issues usually associated with steel cases.

galena
June 10, 2011, 10:23 PM
Addition to earlier post. The only Silver Bear I have used was in 9mm. Never had a problem. Keep shootin'

wally
June 10, 2011, 10:31 PM
Silver Bear is the cream of the crop of the Russian ammo. It's very nice, very accurate, and it's often cheaper than Wolf. The zinc plating fixes a lot of the extraction issues usually associated with steel cases

Not in Houston's heat and humidity. The cases rather quickly coat themselves in a talc-like zinc oxide white powdery film. This sometimes causes bolt over base feed failures from the extra friction in the magazine.

I won't buy it unless the price is truly compelling as I didn't find the marginal accuracy improvement to be worth the hassle of either wiping off the oxide when loading the mags or living with the feed failures. I should note the oxide is a non-issue in an AK, but becomes a problem in other guns or calibers.


The only extraction issues I've ever had with steel cased ammo was in an AR with an out of spec extractor. Filed it to match an in-spec one and problem solved. I did eventually replace the extractor just to be safe, as I didn't know if these have some kind of surface hardness I'd removed, but it did work fine until the replacement arrived. This gun worked fine with brass cased ammo, the steel cases exposed a latent issue so count me in the camp than considers a gun broken if it don't work with the steel cased ammo -- its not the most accurate, and you'll have to clean your gun more often, but the price is right!

That said, Hornady is loading their Vmax bullet into virgin 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 steel cases so the accuracy and cleaning situation should improve at the cost of a higher price.

Prince Yamato
June 10, 2011, 10:53 PM
Honestly, I don't think there's a difference in Russian ammo. I call it "animal brand" because each brand is named after an animal of some sort- bear, wolf, tiger, monarch, etc. I think it all shoots the same. I also think it's all produced in the same factory or under the same management. They just print different boxes with different animal pictures on then and say, "this one goes to Academy Sports, this one goes to Dick's, this one goes to smaller stores." It shoots hotter than American brands and smells a little funny, but it's been as accurate as non-Russian ammo, at least in my Glocks.

Hondo 60
June 10, 2011, 10:58 PM
The Russian steel cased ammo isn't very accurate (atleast not the calibers I've shot).
But I've never had a FTF.

My AR dislikes it. As it heats up the laquer coating can "melt" a bit & cause FTEs

Sport45
June 10, 2011, 11:23 PM
The only thing it will do is smell bad and chew up your extractor.

I read this often, but haven't seen a chewed up extractor yet.

As it heats up the laquer coating can "melt" a bit & cause FTEs


AFAIK, the laquer coated stuff hasn't been sold here in a LONG time. It may still be out there in the surplus market, but the Wolf, Tula, etc they sell today does not have any laquer on it. At least the stuff I've bought wasn't coated with anything that gums up when its hot.

I've shot Wolf and Tula steel case .223 and .30 carbine with no function issues. It's not as accurate as the more expensive store-bought stuff, but it has worked for me.

PabloJ
June 10, 2011, 11:29 PM
Hornady also loads ammo using imported iron cases. It's called Match or something similar to that. I believe they use domestic priming, powder and slugs to assure certain quality level.

Locoone
June 11, 2011, 02:20 AM
Why shoot steel case ammo when you can get brass just as cheap? Just search around the net a bit.

the only things that ever see the steel case ammo are my ak and sks, none in my pistols. I dont trust it in weapons (other than the 2 mentioned) as it may not be doing the damage thats obvious, but we all know what steel on steel does, if not in the short term then the long.

Sport45
June 11, 2011, 03:15 AM
My guns all have plenty of steel surfaces sliding across or banging against each other already. Throwing a steel case (designed for the purpose) into the mix seems inconsequential.

Apocalypse-Now
June 11, 2011, 05:26 AM
no thanks. i like my guns too much to shoot cheap russian steel cased crap through them. rather not have that lacquer stuff melting in my chambers. i've never found it much cheaper than american made quality stuff anyway. it used to be much cheaper years ago.

Sport45
June 11, 2011, 06:14 AM
Not much cheaper????

Graf's current prices:

WOLF AMMO 223 REM 62g FMJ POLYFORMANCE 20/bx 50/cs
Our Price: $4.89
In Stock
Item #: WO22362

The least expensive "american made quality stuff"

FED AMMO 5.56mm 55gr FMJ -BT AM.-EAGLE 20/bx 25/cs
Our Price: $7.89
Out of stock
Item #: FDXM193

The least expensive stuff in stock is WIN 55gr FMJ at $11.29 and the least expensive 62gr is American Eagle at $12.89

I don't think the price difference is insignificant.

rather not have that lacquer stuff melting in my chambers

Have you had this happen in your gun or seen it in any gun?

Apocalypse-Now
June 11, 2011, 06:33 AM
Not much cheaper????

Graf's current prices:

WOLF AMMO 223 REM 62g FMJ POLYFORMANCE 20/bx 50/cs
Our Price: $4.89
In Stock
Item #: WO22362

The least expensive "american made quality stuff"

FED AMMO 5.56mm 55gr FMJ -BT AM.-EAGLE 20/bx 25/cs
Our Price: $7.89
Out of stock
Item #: FDXM193

The least expensive stuff in stock is WIN 55gr FMJ at $11.29 and the least expensive 62gr is American Eagle at $12.89

I don't think the price difference is insignificant.

Quote:
rather not have that lacquer stuff melting in my chambers
Have you had this happen in your gun or seen it in any gun?



you should learn how to ammo shop.

quality american 223, like american eagle can be had at many places for $5.99/box. i actually have a hard time NOT finding it for that price. i've never paid more than $6.99/box for american 223 ammo in my life. i get it at cabelas stores (not online), dunhams sporting goods, sgammo, etc. at these prices all the time. ;)

and yes, plenty o times i've seen the lacquer melted in chambers, and you can't always get it all out either.

Sport45
June 11, 2011, 07:32 AM
you should learn how to ammo shop.

Nah. 95% of what I shoot is my own reloads. I have a stock of Wolf / Tula that I keep on hand for the times I don't think I'll be able to recover my brass. It's not as accurate as my stuff, but it goes bang and impresses the kiddos that get to shoot it. I haven't noticed a bit of difference in cleaning the guns afterwards. But the stuff I shoot doesn't have lacquer anywhere on it.

AmmoEngine results for .223Rem (http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/.223_Remington_5.56x45mm)

The Lone Haranguer
June 11, 2011, 07:42 AM
I've shot Wolf, but the last time was c. 2004. Never any trouble with the pistol ammo (9mm Luger, .45 Auto). The powder was very stinky, somewhat like burning hair, but it all fed, fired and ejected as it was supposed to.

Average Joe
June 11, 2011, 01:44 PM
These days you have to go with what is cheaper . Buy the wolf.

wally
June 11, 2011, 05:40 PM
Why shoot steel case ammo when you can get brass just as cheap? Just search around the net a bit.

You are in dreamland. You are doing real good to find any non-corrosive brass cased 5.56 ammo for $300/1000, its easy to find the steel cased stuff for $190/1000 if as you say you "search around"

Only for 9mm is this anywhere close to true but still ~$180/1000 for steel cased 9mm vs. ~$220/1000 for brass cased adds up. And the quality difference between the steel case 9mm and the cheap 9mm brass ammo is essentially zero.

Don't believe me, see the Box of Truth: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu6.htm

NMGonzo
June 11, 2011, 05:57 PM
never a problem in .45 , 9mm, or 5.56

lono
June 11, 2011, 09:29 PM
Shot hundreds of rounds in 45, 9mm and 5.56 with no problems what so ever. However my pocket 380 will not set off the primers.

W.E.G.
June 11, 2011, 11:12 PM
The zinc-coated 9mm doesn't do well in EVERY gun.

The zinc is really slippery, and tends to peel from the steel in my Hi-Power and S&W 659.
Occasional erratic extraction.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/ammunition/659-2.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/ammunition/659-1.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/ammunition/bhprim.jpg

Prince Yamato
June 12, 2011, 01:01 AM
And the quality difference between the steel case 9mm and the cheap 9mm brass ammo is essentially zero.


I did my own test recently. Pretty much the same results.

Apocalypse-Now
June 12, 2011, 01:11 AM
You are in dreamland.

no he isn't, he just knows how to bargain shop ;)

Only for 9mm is this anywhere close to true but still ~$180/1000 for steel cased 9mm vs. ~$220/1000 for brass cased adds up.

if it did come down to those two deals, i would drop the extra $40 on quality american.

Heretic
June 12, 2011, 02:19 AM
Do what you like. Once I've burned up what steel I have, I won't be buying any more.

Sport45
June 13, 2011, 05:39 AM
Here's an example of some of that "quality American" ammo that is so much better than the Russian stuff. ;)

WARNING! Defective Winchester Ammo! (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7258102&postcount=1)

Cheap ammo is cheap ammo. It may not matter where it was born...

Davek1977
June 13, 2011, 05:52 AM
Why shoot steel case ammo when you can get brass just as cheap? Just search around the net a bit.

Excuse me, but I HAVE "searched around the net a bit"......the average price of xm193 or its plinking equivalent is roughly at least higher than steel cased ammo. I can buy 500 rounds of silver bear for right at $100. If you can find brass cased ammo available at that cost, please, feel free to share. no amount of "searching around the internet a bit" will ever find .225/5.56 brass ammo at .20/rd price point consistently, if ever. If prices for brass and steel were equal, or even comparable, I doubt many people would shoot steel. However, the commonly accepted fact is that steel ammo is typically at least 1/3 cheaper than its brass equivalent...

Pete D.
June 13, 2011, 06:24 AM
its so cheap just curious if its reliable at all , Im sure its as old as the 1911 I'll be shooting it with , but my god "500" rounds for 127 bucks!!! How many FTF's could it be?
It is reliable. I have shot, literally, cases of 9mm and .45 ACP Wolf ammo. I have never had a failure to fire. Like a lot of things.....used to be even cheaper....less than ten cents a round. I couldn't reload it that cheaply.
That applies to some steel cased .22s that I bought years ago - when the Russians started exporting ammo. Very cheap....$109 per 5k rounds.....always works and is accurate.
Pete










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Locoone
June 13, 2011, 11:43 AM
Dave, try palmettostatearmory.com

They seem to be out of stock on 9mm handgun in bulk, so their prices aren't listed.
I paid 139 shipped for 420 rds of federal 5.56 on stripper clips with spoon in a .30 cal ammo can. ;)
I can usually find 900+ rounds for around 279 shipped. (I paid this for a case of ATI 5.56)
I can then use the brass (LC) to reload my hunting rounds.

Almost forgot about sportsmansguide.com
selior and belliot is 19 bucks more for 500 rounds over steel case. I've yet to go through all their ammo listing tho.

PabloJ
June 13, 2011, 11:55 AM
Here's an example of some of that "quality American" ammo that is so much better than the Russian stuff. ;)

WARNING! Defective Winchester Ammo! (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7258102&postcount=1)

Cheap ammo is cheap ammo. It may not matter where it was born...
I found one round with crumbled brass out of 250 among grey boxed .38 Winchester Super Match. The rest of the ammo shot splendidly like one would expect out of match grade ammo.;)

pockets
June 13, 2011, 12:59 PM
Never had a problem with steel-cased, thousands of rounds in various pistols and rifles.
Over the years I have had exactly 2 separate incidents (with the same pistol) of steel cartridges not going off when I pulled the trigger; both times my thumb brushed the slide and it didn't go fully into battery. On each of those, I merely tapped the slide into battery and they then fired just fine.
I love the smell!
.

Manta77
June 13, 2011, 10:26 PM
Wolf is great stuff and great times ( CHEAP to BOOT)....It just smells like floor cleaner...LOL Mini 14s love it...

Apocalypse-Now
June 13, 2011, 11:25 PM
I love the smell!

:eek:

Davek1977
June 27, 2011, 06:41 AM
FYI, Palmetto State was one of the first sites I checked when before making the statement that theres a significant price difference in steel and brass cased ammo. Nothing on their site begins to approach the sub .25/rd in regards to brass cased .223 or 5.56 ammo

I paid 139 shipped for 420 rds of federal 5.56 on stripper clips with spoon in a .30 cal ammo can.

Which comes out to .33 cents a round....hardly exceptional,really, and over 10 cents a round higher than good steel cased ammo.....Steel cased ammo is consistently at least 2/3s cheaper than comparable brass cased loadings. The idea that that theres no saving involved with steel ammo is absolutely false, and the more one shoots, the more the savings become apparent.... We're talking about the difference of 9 dollars per loaded 30 rd mag of brass ammo, compared to 6 dollars to fill a mag up with Silver Bear. Do that a few times in an afternoon, and you've saved enough to cover your gas to the range and back. When tyou can show me brass-cased ammo @ .20-.23 cents a round, I'll likley buy a lot of it.....but sadly, such deals aren't out there on brass-cased 5.56/.223 ammo at this point in time.

tonytor58
June 27, 2011, 01:28 PM
Tula is the only ammo that has stopped my hk usp 45c. Also stopped a springfield gi that my brother had and he had a squib. The usp just failed to feed.

Get R Done Guns
June 27, 2011, 11:09 PM
You can find brass case ammo for 5.80 a box. No sales tax and shipping being minimal. Buy a case and price could drop a bit. Might only end up being about .25-.26 cents a round. PMC is what we are talking about. Where to find it? We have NO CLUE! ;)

Locoone
June 29, 2011, 01:44 AM
it's all cool Dave.
your dead set on the cheap steel, so I'll keep my newest federal lc fmjbt 24 cent a round score. Paying an extra .03 a round is well worth it to me. :)

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