What would your JIC gun be?


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goon
June 10, 2011, 07:13 PM
So the thread in the Shotgun forum on the Mossberg JIC kit got me thinking...


The general idea of this kit is that you have a gun prepackaged with some emergency supplies so that in the event of some kind of catastrophic event, you wouldn't be entirely unprepared and unarmed. In other words, to have around Just In Case.
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28

I question the logic of simply buying a plastic tube with a generic multi-tool and a pistol gripped shotgun in it, but at least people who buy them recognize that they need a defensive weapon and some kind of preparation, so it's a start.

I'm thinking that my choice would be a 20 gauge SXS coach gun. Simple to operate, relatively inexpensive, light enough recoil that smaller adults and even larger children could use it if necessary, effective for close range defense against most two or four legged predators (ammo dependent), hard hitting, it breaks down into small parts for discrete transport/storage, and ammo is very common. My second choice would probably be a 20 gauge pump action with a folding stock, but I admit I don't have a whole lot of experience with folders.

I don't know that I'd choose these guns for myself - I'd be a lot more comfortable with a semi-auto rifle of military heritage and several magazines, say something like a S&W M&P AR-15 at least (but I'm wanting a BCM right now) - but I wouldn't feel completely unarmed with them and I can see them making sense for someone who doesn't put a few hundred rounds a month downrange for practice but still wants something effective to have around for defense.

Anyhow, if you were designing such a kit for sale to the masses, what gun(s) would you include in it and why?

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Jeb21
June 10, 2011, 07:47 PM
A mossberg 12 ga. pump would be my JIC gun.

NOLAEMT
June 10, 2011, 07:58 PM
Pintle mounted Ma duce...


Hey, you asked?

RaceM
June 10, 2011, 08:04 PM
Short-barreled 12 GA (double or Mossy/Rem pump). All can be broken down into relatively short packages that'd fit inside a not-humungous cooler along with food, cooking utensils, etc. for a bug-out. Transportable by one person in a pinch, more easily with a partner.

mr.trooper
June 10, 2011, 08:17 PM
I'd probably go with an H&R single shot. A 22" 20 gauge, with modified choke should do the trick.

For short term I'd throw in a Mora, a Swedish fire steel, and a metal match.

For longer duration emergencies I would add a scane of paracord, a pound of powder, and a few hand tools for loading hulls in the field.

Tomcat47
June 10, 2011, 08:32 PM
I have thought many times about the very need for the JIC!

I actually have the gun and a lot more that would suffice, so I really dont need the tube to stick it in. This is basically a tool for the catastrophic scenario, that puts you on the move to survive.

Below is a few things that I believe are as crucial as the JIC firearm (whatever that may be (Fill in the Blank). I think a crossman air rifle would beat nothing at all.

If one has to move/relocate (and you may be evacuated as well against your will or water may be 3 feet over your roof) all you have stored for a situation, all of a sudden has to be left behind!

Keep that in mind...Hunkering down in solitude may not be possible at all!

Keeping portable supplies can mean the difference, and on the go the other necessities such as firearm will be of most importance then.

Link: www.foodinsurance.com
There are 2 backpack kits available from this company, I have one of each!

one is survival and one is same including First Aid and some other tools...Then I added a few of my own items such as .22 pistol and some ammo. One could add different type of firearm to there choosing. I just wanted 6" .22/.22 Magnum revolver in mine some, and some various things like matches,knife,sharpening stone,extra string,plastic etc.

one favorite item....is a Popeil Pocket Fisherman! It is brand new....I found two of them at a yard sale in the box!

My go-to rifle would be my Marlin 30-30 so incl. a couple boxes 30-30. My other would be winchester 1300 20 Ga. and the other pack about 20 rounds for it!

One of the most important tools is the katadyne water filter! Pricey, but quality water filter is important! 0.2 micron ceramic depth filter (cleanable)

The scenario I would picture even in case of Hurricane/Disaster here on the coast, is each adult person grab there pack which contains 1 pistol - then they take a side arm and long gun. Each person in household should have a pack in my opinion...and they are only $200

Also note: For small children you would either add meals to adult packs or realize that food supply will be shortened!

Good thing is they work great just to go hiking as well...use some of food and replenish! keeps food rotated though I dont think it is necessary. Best of all it teaches you how to use your pack, and find things you want to add or delete.

And Obviously hiking you could leave out some of the armament that a disaster might add to pack that would be unnecessary on a hike or camping trip.

Good Idea Mr. Trooper added picture of Lee Hand Loader For 30-30

Buck Kramer
June 10, 2011, 11:15 PM
AK-74...

A strange person
June 10, 2011, 11:38 PM
I don't like pre-packaged survival kits. They're always full of junk I don't need, and lacking what I do. No serious survivalist would be without his own custom survival loadout, developed from years of trial, error, and reading dusty old books by people with names like "Horace". But I guess a tube full of generic junk + a shotgun is better than an altoids tin with matches, some #10 monofilament line, and a whetstone.

But my JIC gun would certainly have to be a large frame .357MAG revolver.

- A proven man stopper, and an excellent hunting weapon for game up to the size of black bear (or cape buffalo with a headshot and a hard, flat-nose bullet). Handgun hunting makes sense in the dense forest where I live. Truly an all-purpose firearm.

- The weapon can chamber one of the cheapest and most common calibers in the world, the .38SPECIAL. It can also use bullets pulled from the other most common round, the 9mm (if you handload), as well as 000 buckshot balls. The man with a .357MAG will never run out of ammo.

- While not an ideal concealed carry gun, it can be done. Even after the end of law and order, this may at times be prudent.

- I like revolvers. It is best to have a weapon you like; good for morale and all.

My next choice would be a 12GA shotgun with a pistol grip (like in Mossberg's JIC package.) 12GA ammo is everywhere. Shotguns just work. They kill stuff. I like pistol grips. Everybody says you cannot hit anything with them. I can.

IcemanUnlimited
June 10, 2011, 11:54 PM
Just one gun? I suppose it depends on how badly things have gone to hell.. I'm pretty sure I'd like a good rifle, good shotgun and a good handgun in stock so my options are open.

ArfinGreebly
June 10, 2011, 11:57 PM
Anyhow, if you were designing such a kit for sale to the masses, what gun(s) would you include in it and why?

Well, at least that's a different kind of question.

I'm thinking you'd need a line of kits, depending on the environment.

Someone sells an "emergency kit" revolver (Ruger Alaskan?) in .454 Casull. It's the kind of thing you chuck in the back of your small plane as you hop around in the wilds of a region known for bears.

Then there's the Mossberg thing you mentioned.

And Marlin makes the P70SS (Papoose) in .22 LR. It's a compact, lightweight takedown rifle with a floating carry bag. I carry one of those in my truck.

If I were making a "general purpose" emergency kit, and I had to specify a firearm, or firearms, for the kit -- keeping in mind that this kit should have the broadest possible utility -- I would do a line of kits in three configurations: One with just the Marlin Papoose, one with just a Ruger MkIII (or Colt Woodsman) pistol, and a deluxe kit with both. I would only have to supply ammo in one caliber, the Marlin can be optionally scoped, and the Ruger can be optionally silenced (integrated suppressor).

The rest of the kit would have routine stuff: flares, basic fishing gear, fire starter, knife or two (or three), 550 cord, basic first aid, that kind of stuff. And there would be a compartment for customizing the kit to suit the individual circumstances.

But the firearms? A small, compact rifle and/or pistol in .22 LR.

bigfatdave
June 10, 2011, 11:59 PM
I generally have a weapon on me in the first place.
If I were to stash a long gun for such purposes, it would be one that breaks down ... Henry is making an improved version of the old AR7, Rossi makes a fairly nice single-shot barrel-swapping line of guns, Marlin makes the Papoose, there are break-down lever guns out there ... etc etc

PGO guns are fun range blasters and (may) have a place in close-quarters work ... but as a survival gun? I'll take something that stores smaller, carries easier, and has a stock, plus a handgun.

Tomcat47
June 11, 2011, 12:09 AM
Here put these in a handy PVC Pipe with a strap on it! :D

And choose the calibers you want!.......

Heretic
June 11, 2011, 12:19 AM
Don't downplay the airgun.An airgun is relatively quiet, and although there's not a lot of meat on them, sparrow is good eatin'.

And +1 on the water filter. No water, you die.

Ramone
June 11, 2011, 02:01 AM
KelTec SUB2000 in 9mm Glock, 300 rounds some cleaning gear, some parts for improvising a surpressor, all would fit nicrly in a pelican case brief case size, or vacum packed poly bags, stowed in a messenger bag.

Asfar as the rest of my kits go, I am pretty standard, but I have a great trick to try:

Get a little steel wool (just a pinch about the size of a quarter) and short out a plain old 9volt transistor battery. Be careful- the Steel Wool will ignite instantly, and is REALLY hard to extinguish.

Hardware
June 11, 2011, 09:59 AM
My first thought was an M1917 with a jerry can of water and about 10,000 rounds of ammo. :neener:

But I already have a JIC gun. It's my truck gun, a Yugo 24/47 with 80 rounds. I keep the bolt secured elsewhere. If it is stolen/confiscated I'm out $100. I figure that criminals aren't going to have much use for a handful of 8mm rounds. And with no foreknowledge assembling a Mauser bolt is not exactly a simple task.

stonecutter2
June 11, 2011, 10:48 AM
For my general area, larger game aren't as big of a concern. Ruger 10/22 and a brick or two of ammo. That's a whole lot of squirrels or rabbits for not a lot of weight to lug around. If I were in bear country, obviously I'd want something more for protection.

huntsman
June 11, 2011, 02:34 PM
My JIC gun is my EDC gun because I carry all the time JIC

Smokey in PHX
June 12, 2011, 12:36 PM
I like the short double barrel shotgun. With it you can do everything you need. Only drawback is is the bulky ammo.

gym
June 12, 2011, 12:51 PM
AK-47

rogertc1
June 12, 2011, 01:50 PM
Another Zombie attack end of the world thread. With age and reality I have lost most of my ability to fantisize.

http://etfairsoft.blogspot.com/2011/03/it-was-good-day.html

jdietz
June 12, 2011, 02:02 PM
I agree with A Strange Person.

My JIC is a Smith 686 And I have a backpack loaded with supplies sitting by the door.

I have several boxes of .357 self defense loads and a couple boxes of light plinkers in the pack. That way I can protece myself and hunt with the same weapon plus it is easier to carry tha a long gun.

If I can take two I would add a .22/.410 combo kit. Again hunt and self defense.

Hocka Louis
June 12, 2011, 02:34 PM
My on-hand "truck-gun" is a take-down .22 Mag pump custom shortened to 18-1/2" and lightened. .22 Mag has all the same features of a .22 LR, except the price, but with the benefit that it is as potent as a .44 Special at point blank range and has the same energy at 100 yards as the LR at the muzzle. What ammo you have on hand is gonna be all you get in this game (not that a .22 Mag can't fire a .22 LR single-shot -- it can).

I did add a .22 Mag/20 ga. Savage O/U to the collection recently.

And you want other Bug-Out supplies with you at all times too. Rations, water tablets/filter bottle, knife, underwear and socks, poncho...

joeq
June 12, 2011, 02:41 PM
Another Zombie attack end of the world thread. With age and reality I have lost most of my ability to fantisize.

I haven't seen one person mention anything about zombies. Way to contribute to the thread though. As for my pick, I would be happy with My Mossberg pump and a bunch of shells.

mongo4567
June 12, 2011, 10:24 PM
My choice is a folding stock Yugo AK47 with a handful of 20 round mags....very compact and plenty of firepower.

henschman
June 13, 2011, 12:17 PM
My JIC gun would be, and is, an M1A.

goon
June 13, 2011, 04:25 PM
Another Zombie attack end of the world thread. With age and reality I have lost most of my ability to fantisize.



So say you had a friend. He watched the news one day, got scared by the persistent negativity and general capacity for the world to get real ugly real fast, and asked your advice on what gun to buy.
He probably won't carry it, he probably won't even shoot more than a box of ammo through it before putting it away, and he isn't planning to practice with it on a regular basis. Still, he understands the need to own a firearm for defense. Maybe he was ambivalent before, maybe even a closet anti, but now he's on the path to being one of "us" and he wants a gun to have around... just in case.
Knowing this, what would you tell him to buy?

ArfinGreebly
June 13, 2011, 06:24 PM
I'm beginning to wonder how many of those posting in the thread actually took the time to read what the OP actually asked.

Try it.

It's maybe not what you thought the title meant.

ripp
June 13, 2011, 06:47 PM
I'd pick a .22 autorifle, preferably the out of production Marlin Papoose, because I can have a spare barrel that easily swaps out and can be 6" long, with a sound suppressor on it. Add a telescoping buttstock and you have a .22 rifle that can be concealed under a coat, under your arm, and the 6" barrel keeps regular .22lr, high speed ammo subsonic. This makes for a compact, lw unit that is very easily buried in a PVC TUBE, along with a brick of ammo. It may not seem like much, but it can easily get anything else I might need. For JIC scenarios, I don't want anything for which ammo is at all hard to get or carry, or that has blast or flash, or that I can't ccw, preferably ready to fire as ccw'd, but I want it to be capable of braining deer or dogs, and taking small game with ease. I don't trust a suppressed. 22 pistol to be nearly as capable of doing those things.

zdc1775
June 13, 2011, 06:47 PM
Personally I would say .357 carbine and revolver with about 3-400 rounds of ammo, and if the kit had the room a .22 revolver with a couple of bricks of ammo.

rogertc1
June 13, 2011, 06:53 PM
Ok hows about an AR pistol with 100 round drum magazine...I have one...take no name...

goon
June 13, 2011, 07:38 PM
[off-topic redacted]

The idea for the .22 or .22 magnum rifle does make some sense. A .22 mag has more power from a rifle than its small bore size would indicate and even a .22LR rifle packs a surprising punch. I can see a semi-auto .22 serving pretty decently against an attacker if pressed into that, especially if you can land quick repeated hits. Even total amateurs can learn to handle a .22LR rifle and make hits out to fifty yards pretty quickly. I think everyone should have a good .22 for its versatility and especially because the cheap price of ammo encourages you to practice a lot. Still, it's lacking against bigger predators. I think that someone who wants to own a gun to have around just in case, but probably not shoot it much, might be better served with something that will put a heavier projectile on target.
I'm still liking a coach gun for the purpose of arming someone who would buy a JIC type kit. As I said, I don't think most of us would - because we've already made our choices and either have what we need or at least know what we need to buy. But for some people a "kit" with as short 20 gauge side by side would be exactly what they'd need. And even in the case of someone who would buy a kit like that to begin with, then begin to learn about its deficiencies and want to upgrade, a coach gun would still be useful enough to hang on to.
Hate to say it in a way... because I'm one of those people who can live without a shotgun, but for this use it makes a lot of sense.

Unistat
June 13, 2011, 08:03 PM
On the one hand, it's hard to beat a pump-action shotgun for a general JiC gun.

On the other hand, I keep a Kel-Tec SU-16 and a Springfield M6 Scout with my BOB/GHB, so I guess those are my JiC guns.

On the gripping hand, in a JiC situatuation, I'm not leaving my house without grabbing my Remington 870. It would take two seconds, literally. Since the BOB/GHB are already in the car and I always have my G23 on me, I guess I'm covered. Paranoid, but covered.

ripp
June 13, 2011, 08:14 PM
they won't practice enough to hit with anything else, or spend the money to buy anything else and enough ammo to do them any good. all it takes to beat out the shotgun is 100 yds, some cover and a rifle. It's far, far too limited a gun, in many, many ways. its blast and flash are horrendous, especially at night. its ammo is way too bulky and heavy, especially for use against small game. The 22 wo;n't make them THINK that they can fight, when the reality is that they cant. The .22 encourages them to hide and be quiet/unnoticed. And that is the only practical advice for those who are not heavily 'into' combat shooting.

22-rimfire
June 13, 2011, 08:24 PM
My whole house is a major JIC kit. Gun? Probably a good 22 revolver, 22 rifle, and a 40 S&W pistol. Shotgun... sure got that covered too. Like I said, my whole house is a JIC kit.

ATBackPackin
June 13, 2011, 09:06 PM
As far as a kit for the masses in case of catastrophic event I think you need something light and compact. Something like the Marlin Papoose would be perfect and you can carry a lot of ammo.

You may have to defend you family, but you are definitely going to have to feed them. I would also like to see a small fishing pole, such as an ice rod. Maybe even a take down recurve bow with a half dozen arrows.

goon
June 13, 2011, 10:15 PM
One could argue that you'd be better off to stock up on macacroni and cheese rather than .22 ammo if you expect to eat.
Don't ge me wrong - I'd poach a rabbit or squirrel to add some protein to the diet, but it is way easier to toss some noodles and a handful of lentils into a pot of boiling water than it is to run around in the woods (or your neighborhood) trying to shoot a squirrel. I think ten pounds of rice will give you more sure meals than a 100 round box of .22 ammo.

they won't practice enough to hit with anything else, or spend the money to buy anything else and enough ammo to do them any good. all it takes to beat out the shotgun is 100 yds, some cover and a rifle. It's far, far too limited a gun, in many, many ways. its blast and flash are horrendous, especially at night. its ammo is way too bulky and heavy, especially for use against small game. The 22 wo;n't make them THINK that they can fight, when the reality is that they cant. The .22 encourages them to hide and be quiet/unnoticed. And that is the only practical advice for those who are not heavily 'into' combat shooting.

I can't say I disagree with your points on the shotgun. It's far from ideal for my uses and apparently for yours. I'd much rather have a good centerfire rifle over a shotgun - but you and I are also people who shoot often enough to be competent with a rifle.
Smart or not, there are people who buy guns, try a few shots out of them, then put them away. In the thread that inspired me to start this one, the OP had a friend or family member who bought a Mossbert JIC kit. I got the impression that after a little familiarization firing his family member was going to clean it up and put it away. I agree that practicing is way smarter, but at the same time, many people don't practice regularly and that just is what it is. Smart or not, it's reality.

So if you're designing a kit to market to those people (not to those of us who already know what we're doing and are well armed with our 870's, AK's, AR's, or even Marlin 30-30's) what would you stick in it to give them a decent chance of defending themselves?

Thinking this out further, I wonder if a pump action .410 set up as a defensive gun might not work well.
Ammo is expensive, but the folk I'm thinking of aren't going to shoot more than a box or two of it anyhow.
Recoil is light from a .410 but a 3" load can still put five pellets of buck shot on target with one trigger pull. A gentle little gun on the shooter but no so much on the attacker... But this is just thinking out loud.

22-rimfire
June 13, 2011, 10:33 PM
I wouldn't suggest a 410 shotgun to anyone that is not VERY comfortable shooting guns in general in which case, they would have something better.

Few people are going to shoot ANY rounds. The police would not look kindly on you struting down the street with your 870 or AK. It is not going to happen, and if it did happen, it would be isolated. Keep a handgun tucked out of sight on your person and your shotgun loaded leaning against the wall in your house and you are about as ready as you're likely to ever be.

100 yd shots.... forget about it. It's called murder not self defense.

I took ArfinGreebly's advice and read the opening post. The most important part is THIS. Not what I just finished commenting on above.

Anyhow, if you were designing such a kit for sale to the masses, what gun(s) would you include in it and why?

The kit would contain a Glock pistol (9mm or 40S&W), a couple loaded mags, a couple boxes of ammo, a small spin fishing rod with appropriate lures, food for 3 days, first aid kit, and a survival book (probably the army manual), water filtration equipment, a small stove, and cooking pot, pan, and dutch oven. Probably a bit large to lug on your back, but I don't intend to do much lugging on my back. Stay home where you are the strongest.

Another kit version would have a 12 ga Remington 870 shotgun with 25 rounds of ammo instead of the handgun.

Br
June 13, 2011, 11:52 PM
How about a simple .22 rifle that packs in the stock, the Henry US Survival Rifle? Fits in a backpack easily.

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

OffArtist
June 14, 2011, 12:12 AM
+1 On the Henry Br - I wish I had one to be part of my current kit. So far I'm thinkin I'd bring my Springfield 1911 .45, my Savage .22, and my M4gery with a few hundred rounds for each (again, depending on the scenario). I also own one of those Katadyn water filters - expensive, but SO worth it. If I had to hunker down I'd have more than enough food, water, and armament / ammo to dissuade any would be bogeymen.
I also own a Franchi I-12 semi auto 12 gauge which I totally love. Wonder how it would do if I sawed it down to 18"...

BLB68
June 14, 2011, 01:11 AM
100 yd shots.... forget about it. It's called murder not self defense.



If someone's trying to murder you from 100 yards away with their JiC gun, then it's self defense. :D

Back on topic: Both the Mossberg JiC kits and the similar kits from S&W make me scratch my head.

It's a gun in a tube, along with random other objects, including a Survival Kit in a Can (crap), a Multitool and a lockblade knife of unknown manufacture (most likely crap, but even so, the lockblade is redundant with a multitool).

So, what's the intention? Bury it somewhere as a cache? Carry the big honking tube with you strapped to the side of a pack, like in the one picture on the site? Both seem impractical.

I can see one situation that such a set up might be worth considering, offhand, and that's if you're doing some travel in seriously remote places by vehicle. In that case, I'd probably not opt for the tube, for for a large Pelican or similar waterproof, floatable container.

As for what to put in it, firearms-wise, nothing. Whatever you normally carry for personal protection should suffice. You're better off with a flare gun than a shotgun or rifle in a survival situation.

Now, if you're in a situation where you may have to defend yourself, such as a civil unrest scenario, I still go with your normal CCW, and avoiding trouble as much as possible. You aren't going to stand up to a mob unless you bring your own mob, and without medical help readily available, it's better to avoid contact if possible, as even fairly even encounters can prove deadly in the long run. A lot of gun fights seem to end up with bullet holes in both parties after all.

Br
June 14, 2011, 01:14 AM
OffArtist, I like my Springfield 1911 .45 for this also, and my Glock 21 in .45 too.
mortablunt, I think you mean you trust it implicitly, complicit means wrongdoing or doing something illegal. :)

esque
June 14, 2011, 01:54 AM
Having read "All" of the O.P. with the key points
being.. kit, defensive, relatively inexpensive, light recoil,
close range, break down and common ammo. I too will suggest the Kel-Tec
Sub 2000 9mm.

goon
June 14, 2011, 04:45 PM
As for what to put in it, firearms-wise, nothing. Whatever you normally carry for personal protection should suffice. You're better off with a flare gun than a shotgun or rifle in a survival situation.

Now, if you're in a situation where you may have to defend yourself, such as a civil unrest scenario, I still go with your normal CCW, and avoiding trouble as much as possible. You aren't going to stand up to a mob unless you bring your own mob, and without medical help readily available, it's better to avoid contact if possible, as even fairly even encounters can prove deadly in the long run. A lot of gun fights seem to end up with bullet holes in both parties after all.

You have a point. You or I or most of the people reading this thread already have the guns we'd use for this. We'd grab our trusty Glocks, 1911's or .357 revolvers and call it good.

But IMO you're not the guy the JIC kit is marketed to.
Strange as it is to "us" there are people out there who don't have many years worth of firearms experience.
I think the appeal of the JIC kit to someone like that is largely psychological.
You were unarmed and unprepared before... then you bought the JIC kit and WHAMMO! You are now prepared!

Sure, that's silly. As others have pointed out, one of these kits doesn't make you prepared to do much. They're stuffed with cheap knockoff equipment (I think, having not handled one personally) and a gun that's probably not ideal for someone who's not going to be shooting it much. Still, they're at least a step in the right direction and even if someone isn't a gun enthusiast, I still think they should have a good tool to exercise their right to defend themselves and their loved ones.

Some would stuff a handgun in such a kit as a better choice than a Mossberg with a pistol grip. I have to say though, it took me a long time and a lot of rounds downrange to get competent with a handgun and after a winter's worth of not shooting much, it takes some rounds to get back to where I was. Handguns require frequent practice in my experience, so for me, that rules them out as a JIC gun for a marginally skilled shooter.

Rifles and shotguns are easier to shoot, and many shotguns only have a bead. Get that on the target, press the trigger, and let the spread of your buck shot do the rest.
They've got limitations and I'd prefer a rifle... but I'm going to be practicing at least once a month if not more. And so are you.
So rather than looking at what you would choose for yourself, what would you advise someone who isn't as much of a shooter as you are?

And yes, I realize that the best solution is just to get people to go to the range and practice with you... but it's just not always possible. Some people are gun owners but not shooters and that's just how it is.

BLB68
June 17, 2011, 08:31 PM
For an actual JiC kit for a non gun person, a shotgun with a stock, probably a 20 gauge, would be better than the pistol gripped shotguns for sure.

Dnaltrop
June 18, 2011, 02:39 PM
JIC to me means I'm taking small game for survival. My 2 legged protection is separate.

Have a big soft spot in my heart for the AR-7 explorer. Floats, Uses high/hypervelocity .22, collapses into the stock for easy portability.

goon
June 18, 2011, 10:10 PM
JIC to me means I'm taking small game for survival. My 2 legged protection is separate.

Have a big soft spot in my heart for the AR-7 explorer. Floats, Uses high/hypervelocity .22, collapses into the stock for easy portability.


But with the Mossberg kits it seems that defense is the priority (or at least the idea of making people feel like they have defense covered).
And I think it should be for a short-term crisis. I like the ability to knock off a couple squirrels for food, but in reality I think having a few jars of peanut butter in the pantry is going to result in more calories going into my body than running around my neighborhood or the nearby woods in the wake of some disaster trying to hunt. It will also draw a lot less attention from the neighbors and the authorities who might already be on edge as they try to deal with all the other problems that would no doubt exist in such a scenario.

I guess the conclusion I've reached as I've thought about this thread is that I've been trying to come up with a more effective weapon than a pistol-grip only shotgun for those who might purchase something like a JIC kit.
I think if you have someone who's willing to put the work into learning a weapon, a semi-auto handgun or revolver brings a lot to the table. It's got adequate range and power for defense and you can keep it with you pretty much all the time. Pick a caliber/weapon everyone in the family can use and get some practice and you're off to a decent start. If you get more into guns I think you should add a long gun - and by that time you'll know enough about guns to make a smart choice.

If you're not willing to do the work and just want something as simple as it gets to defend yourself with (whether you're dedicated or not, you still have that right), I think a short side by side shotgun or a full stocked pump action might be about as good as you can do.

And I think subsistence hunting is a whole different conversation... ;)

Ole Coot
June 18, 2011, 10:17 PM
My JIC firearm sure wouldn't be a pistol grip 12ga pump. None of those survival munchies either. I have an old Win Mod. 70 that works for distance and a Win. Defender 12ga for close up. I have alarms, lights, generator ample tools, food, workshop and plenty of clear space along with a dog. Metal roof & brick house open field of fire and well armed neighbors, close but not too close. If I HAD for some natural disaster be forced to leave I push up a garage door, back up the loaded Jeep to the trailer with goodies and drive to a cabin about 50miles back in the woods built with a portable sawmill, 2br, kitchen, bath, living room and all around porch can now be reached only by ATV. Our and a few friends get away from everything place, don't even bother to lock the doors. Just a sign, leave it as you found it and it has been used and taken care of and easily defended out to 500yds.

saddlebum
June 18, 2011, 10:52 PM
i think if you were bush pilot in alaska that mossberg jic would be about ideal to keep behind the seat of the ol airplane

GLOOB
June 18, 2011, 11:18 PM
A Ruger MkIII and an AR15?

tbutera2112
June 19, 2011, 12:02 AM
saiga 12 with some extra drums and mags

end of the world happens and the easiest ammo to find in bulk is going to be 12g

box of 100 for $20 makes it easy to stock up on ammo too....sure its bird shot, but it would still **** somebody up

or be a baller and stock up on good stuff

Ignition Override
June 19, 2011, 03:56 AM
The SKS,
although it probably won't matter living just outside the city if we descend into a brief "Road Warrior" chaos,
or in several years some US cities suffer from riots, like happens in Athens, Greece etc.

But if another gun gives us a much better chance of procuring a steady supply of (vital) refrigerated insulin for my wife's Type One diabetes, please tell me what it is.
Otherwise, it won't matter what guns or ammo I have.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 19, 2011, 06:38 AM
Well let's see.
Mine would probably be my Mosin M44, My Astra A-90, and my Stevens Model 77F.

Ammo, food, knives, basically the works.

And a Mauser bolt isn't difficult. I figured mine out in an hour without help. But then again, they are thugs, and apparently (according to the Dumbest Thing You Have Seen At The Range thread) some seem to think guns run on batteries. LOL.

If they do figure out how to assemble a bolt, it still wouldn't be safe to shoot considering headspacing.

WeedWacker
June 19, 2011, 07:02 AM
I picture something similar to the Ruger Bear kit but instead of the .454 cas Alaskan maybe a Judge or Governor .410 pistol. Would definitely make it more affordable as a kit. Include the water filter, a magnesium firestarter, and a folding 3" knife, like a Gerber Evo Jr. and a 6"-7" fixed blade, maybe a cheap Glock knife or a BK-7 in a kydex sheath if you wanted a higher quality package. Add a whetstone or sharpener and I'd definitely take a serious look at it personally. That should all fit in a briefcase sized bag/case. If you put it in a 3-day pack I would be sold on it.

gunnutery
June 19, 2011, 09:51 AM
If a "catastrophic event" is the selling point and my demographics cover the enitre US, I guess I'd market several JIC options to let the customers decide what would best suit their needs in such an event.

Firearm Combo:
.44 magnum levergun & .44 mag revolver
.357 mag levergun & .357 revolver
.22 bolt gun & .22 revolver
mix and match whatever yada yada
etc. etc.

Non-firearms I would include:
Speed loaders (if revolver)
Extra magazines (if auto)
100 rounds of each caliber selected
A short sword for when the ammo runs out (seriously)

Okay, so after typing all that, I realize that my JIC kit would be a little on the pricey side. Oh well, I've never claimed to be a business man.

Hocka Louis
June 19, 2011, 08:25 PM
I still don't understand the people who think they'll strip naked except for a .22 LR as a loin-cloth and live off the post-appocalyptic land. It is the weakest round available, but NOT the only rimfire.

If you like the features of a .22 LR then the .22 Mag is an infinitely more beneficial round in every aspect except that it is more expensive. That is WHY I'd recommend it and wave everyone off of the .22 LR if they could listen.

goon
June 20, 2011, 12:58 AM
I still don't understand the people who think they'll strip naked except for a .22 LR as a loin-cloth and live off the post-appocalyptic land. It is the weakest round available, but NOT the only rimfire.

If you like the features of a .22 LR then the .22 Mag is an infinitely more beneficial round in every aspect except that it is more expensive. That is WHY I'd recommend it and wave everyone off of the .22 LR if they could listen.

It could be that rather than reading and actually answering the question being asked, some just experience a knee-jerk response and assume that a total end of the world scenario must be what I'm talking about. There seems to be a lot of that going on here.
While I like guns, I don't think any firearm would feed me as reliably and effectively in the wake of a severe (but not necessarily permanent) disaster scenario as well as a good supply of mac n' cheese would. Think about it - half of your roof is gone, trees and power lines are down everywhere, and you don't even know when the nearest emergency crew is coming. Would you rather run around the neighborhood trying to shoot enough critters to feed your family with your 10/22 or Mossberg 500 or cook a few cups of rice in boiling water over a small fire?
Which of these scenarios is more likely to result in you and your loved ones getting the required nutrition to stay healthy until normal services are restored? Which is likely to result in the fewest possible complications?

I think overall that what Mossberg was trying to do was create a kit that offered at least some kind of security, or at least the illusion of security to those who bought it.
And I think that such a kit could be made to actually offer some security with a full stocked pump action or SxS shotgun in 20 or 12 gauge. I appreciate the input of those of you who actually read my questions and put some thought into what you'd include and why.

Lakedaemonian
June 20, 2011, 01:13 AM
M1 Carbine. Powerful enough to take up to and including white tailed deer, yet light and sleek enough to carry with ease. Its reliable, the ammo is relatively light and if need be, its powerful enough to ward off other dangerous predators like humans for example.

Lakedaemonian
June 20, 2011, 01:15 AM
ya know I started a thread just like this, but mine got locked and removed right away... no fair!

doc2rn
June 20, 2011, 02:36 AM
There are 2 types of thought going on here for the JIC:
One where you have to move out, and one where you hunker down.

Moving out with your BOB, weight is gonna be the first thing to come into play. In this instance its all gonna be about weight. A .22 lr/ wmr makes alot of sence when you look at carrying 500 rds of RF ammo vs. 500 shotgun shells.

Staying put in your AO, bigger is better, as you want to stop whatever is coming to get/ take what you have. The more food and water stores the better. In the end you still may have to move out to secure water and carrion but by then hopefully you will have it down to the essentials. For a novice the 20/12g would be ideal. I prefer SxS as it keeps a broad visual spectrum across the top of the barrel which helps them keep both eyes open.

For me its a brace of Colts and Ruger 77/22 MK II.

Isaac-1
June 20, 2011, 03:16 AM
Ok, I will play, working from the premise that order will be restored in a month or two, or the worst of the roaming gangs, etc. will kill each other off in about the same time frame.

1, Good quality light weight pellet gun to hunt small game, after all chances are the power is going to be out and there is no refrigeration (I live in the south). Even a .22 can be heard from a mile or more away, no reason to announce your location while putting dinner in the pot.

2, Ruger 10/22 in stainless, .22 LR because you can carry a lot of it, and when it comes down to it you can slow down a fairly large size gang at a fair distance with a .22, particularly if they are only armed with hand guns and don't know how to shoot.

3/4, A pair of larger caliber handgun / rifle that fire a common cartridge, something somewhat weatherproof and light. My personal choice at the moment would be an XDM-9 and a 9mm AR-15 conversion. If you need these chances are you were having to act in self defense, you either get away, or get more guns and ammo, or don't. I would be tempted to skip having the hand gun at all, and just go with a standard AR-15 or similar.

If we are talking about arming 2 or more people things change, if 2 people I would add a .22 handgun like the Ruger Camp Mk II or similar, and a second long gun like the 9mm AR-15.

It is all about not loading yourself down too much, and still maintaining a reasonable ammo supply, it helps if your not trying to roam long distance and can have a ammo/arms stash to go back to.

Dnaltrop
June 20, 2011, 04:13 AM
As demonstrated in Coos bay ( in this months American Rifleman)

.22 WILL do.

Hmmn... maybe one of those .22 gatling gun replicas, cheaper than a NIB 1877 Bulldog Gatling 45-70

http://www.usarmamentcorp.com/accessories.php only $36,500 to start!!!!!


JUST in case :D

Heretic
June 21, 2011, 01:06 PM
AR in my hand, .45 1911 on my side.

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