Need help with a failure to feed problem (CZ82, pics included)


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Dentite
June 10, 2011, 09:39 PM
Hey gang,

Picked up a CZ 82 a month or two ago and I'm having some problems. I haven't shot it a lot but I am getting intermitten failure to feeds. When I chamber a round I don't have any trouble but sometimes multiple times per mag the rounds are not chambering. After the failure I am usually able to pull the slide back, release and it will then chamber.

The rounds seem to feed fine if I manually cycle the action through a magazine of rounds.

I'm no expert but one potential problem I see is that the rounds sit in a such a way in the magazines that when I try to strip a round off with my thumb it catches on the front of the magazine and it stops. I have a few other semi-autos and the round easily clears the front of the magazine on those.

Some photos:

Rounds seated in mag:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=143771&stc=1&d=1307756105

After I try to strip a round off with my thumb...it's caught:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=143774&stc=1&d=1307756105

Other views of it stuck:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=143773&stc=1&d=1307756105

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=143772&stc=1&d=1307756105

If you look closely you can actually see a little ding/dent in the case...these rounds have been chambered so that might be where it got caught last time.

I'm temped to open up the front of the magazine to allow the round to feed but I don't want to jack it up worse.

Anyone ideas?

I'd love to hear from someone else with an 82 and hear if theirs looks the same as my photos.

Thanks!

John

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Dentite
June 10, 2011, 09:45 PM
This is what I was talking about above:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=143780&stc=1&d=1307756666

JROC
June 10, 2011, 09:52 PM
Maybe you could polish a small radius or angle on the magazines lip where the round is hanging? Really just smooth the corner over.

tbone1964
June 11, 2011, 07:36 PM
by the pic looks like ya need some new mag springs not pushing the round up as high as it should in order to feed right get some wolf springs for it clean the mag real well when ya pull it apart and reassemble see if that dont fix the issue

bigfatdave
June 11, 2011, 10:00 PM
I haven't shot it a lot but I am getting intermitten failure to feeds.Don't mess with it unless it actually malfunctions while shooting.

Does it do this with all magazines?

Mag springs and followers should be checked before you invite Danny Dremel to the party.

1SOW
June 12, 2011, 12:43 AM
That mag doesn't look new, so I'm assuming you bought a used pistol. If so, mag springs are a pretty good bet and replacing them is good idea on a used pistol.

Just a guess: The cartridge also doesn't look factory new, so are they your reloads? If it feeds with the slide fully slingshotted, maybe the load isn't strong enough to always get a full slide cycle.

IMHO, A dremel is a dangerous tool around pistols.

rellascout
June 12, 2011, 12:49 AM
Swap springs. Rinse and repeat.

BCRider
June 12, 2011, 01:12 AM
By the time it gets that far forward the nose of the bullet SHOULD be riding up the ramp in the frame towards the barrel opening. So the front of the mag would not matter at all.

If the gun doesn't shoot right then what you want to do is repeat this thumbing the round forward like this but with the mag in the frame with the slide off the gun. Since this is a blowback gun this means you should be able to track the round all the way into the chamber from a thumbnail push. Likely this will confirm that the round is riding up the ramp to the barrel before the front of the magazine is an issue. If not then you definetly have some problems.

If this is the case I would start by checking your ammo to ensure it isn't too short for some oddball reason. If the round is too short then it won't strike and ride up the ramp in the correct manner. And from the looks of the rounds in your pictures I'm not seeing a decent crimp so perhaps this is part of the issue.

The fact that your brass has marks on the ends that you're attributing ot a previous strike with the mag suggest that you're reloading your own ammo. You will want to check what overall length that the 82 is more tolerant of and perhaps tune your reloads to replicate this ideal length of the rounds and provide a slightly more definete crimp.

Snowdog
June 12, 2011, 01:14 AM
CZ-82... malfunction... wow.

Well, I guess it can happen to all pistols.

Did your CZ-82 come with two magazines or just one? I don't have my CZ-82 to look over just now, but the lips of that magazine look like it may have already seen something abrasive in its lifetime. I would almost bet it's very much a magazine-related issue as you suspect.

Just a guess: The cartridge also doesn't look factory new, so are they your reloads? If it feeds with the slide fully slingshotted, maybe the load isn't strong enough to always get a full slide cycle.

I would think those are commercial loads from Russia such as Brown Bear. That once-fired look is just the lacquered steel case.

Surplus CZ-82 pistols usually can benefit from a new recoil spring, so it would have to be a batch of some seriously undercharged ammunition to cause a short cycle, but it is possible.

Apocalypse-Now
June 12, 2011, 01:14 AM
replace recoil and mag springs.

i had the same issue. only place you can find recoil springs is CZ. 9x18 and .380 versions use the same spring. wolff sells the mag springs.

toivo
June 12, 2011, 01:48 AM
Wolff also sells the recoil springs:

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/CZ/82%20%26%2083/cID1/mID16/dID92

I can't find the magazine springs on their site, though.

Apocalypse-Now
June 12, 2011, 01:53 AM
^^oops, you're right. it was the opposite of what i said :)

harmon rabb
June 12, 2011, 11:09 AM
Sounds like a wimpy mag spring. All cz-82 mags look like that when you try to pop a round out of them. I have two cz-82's and 4 mags, both guns work fine with all 4 mags, and all 4 mags look exactly like yours when you push a round out.

harmon rabb
June 12, 2011, 11:27 AM
CZ-82... malfunction... wow.

Well, I guess it can happen to all pistols.

the real surprise would be if this happened to a makarov :D

918v
June 12, 2011, 11:42 AM
OAL too short. Bullet needs to hit feedramp to angle the case mouth away from the edge of the magazine body.

Dentite
June 12, 2011, 07:43 PM
You guys are awesome...thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.

A few answers to the questions:

Yes, this is a used surplus gun (1984 production).

Two magazines...have had some failures with both mags.

Factory Russian "Brown Bear" loads with laquered steel cases. The mark on the case was likely from the case being chambering during my hand-cycling testing. Not reloaded cases.

BCRider: That is a great point about the fact that when the mag is in the gun the bullet is riding up the feed ramp before it would hit the magazine lip...makes perfect sense and I don't know why I didn't think of that earlier.

After my original post I went out and fired from both magazines without any trouble. Weird but I'm glad it worked.

I do think that changing the magazine springs is a good choice...one magazine is about a 1/4 inch more compressed than the other...might be a good place to start. I had completely dissasembled and cleaned the mags when I first got the gun so there was no junk or buildup causing the problem. One follower does sit a bit differently in the magazine than the other follower.

Going to get new springs and see how it does. I did order some new plastic grips from CZ and was pretty disapointed in the way they fit. I know they are for the CZ83 but since the frame is the same (as far as I had heard) I assumed they would fit just fine. One side can't even get the screw in due to the holes not lining up and they just don't fit as good even without the screw issue.

Thanks guys!

Shadow 7D
June 13, 2011, 01:41 AM
CHECK THE MAG
If it's a proper CZ82 mag, it should have the Czech army acceptance stamp, crossed roman swords

If it's marked CZ, most likely it's a .380 replacement mag, and then you need to look at the shape of the feed lips, as the .380 mags (CZ83) CAN work, but often have issues until you adjust the lips a little, for the fatter 9Mak round.

Fastcast
June 13, 2011, 10:50 AM
As BCRider and 918v said the bullet hits the feed ramp and rides up off the front of the mag.

My mags/bullets do the same thing when thumbing rounds out of a mag. I usually place my other thumb in front of the mag to allow the bullet to ride up my thumb so as not to catch, like you've shown in the pics.

So I see nothing unusual here. I've had no malfunctions with over a 1000 rounds through my 82, which does the same thing you're showing.

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