Buddy got denied, but he's clean, and roomate isn't


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elcaminoariba
June 10, 2011, 10:20 PM
OK, I've never heard of it happening like this.

My buddy who we'll call Seal, is clean as far as we know, in fact he's passed background checks for work and doesn't even have a traffic violation on his record. He's 24 and has no criminal record. HOWEVER, he goes to buy a handgun recently and gets denied (WTD-what the deuce? :what: ). Of course they don't tell him why he was denied, but he is convinced that it is because his roommate who IS a prohibited person from some chicken ess "domestic" misdemeanor (who we'll call Prohibited dude). But it wasn't the roommate making the purchase or wanting the purchase, or anywhere near the purchase. My buddy already owns guns and he is convinced that his roommate's driver's license and corresponding address must have come up on the background check and thus turned him into an instant prohibited person. BUT, how the hell can you be denied just because a prohibited person's address matches as yours, when YOU are the one making the purchase? How the hell does the state know that Prohibited dude is ACTUALLY living with you and not moved out, and by the way, it's legal to have firearms in the same dwelling as a prohibited person as long as they have no access whatsoever (as in TOTALLY PHYSICALLY LOCKED OUT from said firearms).

This just doesn't add up. If they're denying people now merely by running your address and if it happens to "hit" with the LISTED address (just listed and not being proof that Prohibited dude actually still lives there, LET ALONE has access to any guns), of a prohibited person, then that is ten times more frightening of a police state. That is making one hell of an assumption based on an address match.

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M-Cameron
June 10, 2011, 10:24 PM
your buddy is assuming its because his roommate.........and assumptions can get people into a lot of trouble....


people are denied all the time, often times its simply a mix-up........the best step would be to file an appeal.

ny32182
June 10, 2011, 10:28 PM
I seriously doubt it has anything to do with his roommate.

elcaminoariba
June 10, 2011, 10:33 PM
Agreed M-Cameron. I'm just wondering if there is a new trend of government denying people by doing address matches via that wonderful government driver's license (aint it great how free we all are, especially since even pro second amendment folks don't believe we have a right to travel anymore, and repeat the "driving is a privilege" crap, but that's another subject) and making YOU a prohibited person just because some prohibited person's government ID has the same address as yours, whether they live there or not.

Frankly, it really does look like they're matching addresses of gun buyers against the "prohibited persons" list and denying the gun buyer (who is clean), but this is a leap I hadn't seen before so I can't be sure. We all know that this leap is quite believable since government loves lists and cross checking it's lists.

I seriously doubt it has anything to do with his roommate.Gads I hope so. I REALLY hope it's my buddy or just a dumb bureaucratic error (by the way, I love how the bureaucratic errors lean in the direction of DENYING you your rights instead of presuming your innocence). The problem is my buddy is about as close to squeaky clean as you can get. He's been at the same job for years and is about to close on the purchase of the house next door to him. The cops have NEVER had to go to his house for any reason.

dogtown tom
June 10, 2011, 10:41 PM
elcaminoariba My buddy already owns guns and he is convinced that his roommate's driver's license and corresponding address must have come up on the background check
FBI NICS doesn't get the buyers address OR drivers license #.

BUT, how the hell can you be denied just because a prohibited person's address matches as yours,
You don't. You get denied because your name/birthdate/race/etc matches or comes close to matching that of a prohibited person.

How the hell does the state know that Osama is ACTUALLY living with you and not moved out,
They DON'T know.


This just doesn't add up. If they're denying people now merely by running your address and if it happens to "hit" with the LISTED address (just listed and not being proof that Osama actually still lives there, LET ALONE has access to any guns), of a prohibited person, then that is ten times more frightening of a police state. That is making one hell of an assumption based on an address match.
Uhhhhhh..........You and your friend are making the assumptions. When he was denied he should have been given information on appealing the denial. That is the only way he will know for sure.

Tomcat47
June 10, 2011, 10:44 PM
Maybe you have just been redflagged due to a address match with a person known to not qualify??

I would wait and see what is up before I assumed anything. And if/when they clear you - get a Unique Personal Identification Number!

If you have been denied by the FBI NICS background check when attempting to purchase a firearm, you can fill out an application for the Voluntary Appeal File. Normally information obtained during the NICS check and the subsequent Proceed/Delay/Denied response is deleted at the end of the NICS business day. Opening a VAF allows NICS to keep your information and background check results stored. This will allow you to get faster responses and fewer delay/denied responses. NICS will issue you a UPIN number to be written on the Form 4473. This number would be given to NICS when your dealer makes his call. from another forum..

FBI Home:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/nics
Appeals Brochure:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/appeals/nics_appeals_brochure_eng

elcaminoariba
June 10, 2011, 10:46 PM
FBI NICS doesn't get the buyers address OR drivers license #.
I cannot verify that, and it seems counterintuitive that NICS would not get the buyer's address OR driver's licence, but for now I'll assume that what you said is a correct statement. My state does a duplicate background check in addition to and alongside NICS (if you don't have a permit). My buddy does not have a carry permit like I do so when he goes to buy a gun, they don't just check the validity of a permit (as they do with me and sidestep NICS), they do the full colonoscopy on him.

I would wait and see what is up before I assumed anything. And if/when they clear your buddy {correction added} - get a Unique Personal Identification Number!I don't have the foggiest idea how to get a unique personal identification number, and neither would my buddy.

ny32182
June 10, 2011, 10:50 PM
If it were me I wouldn't assume my roommate had anything to do with it, but at the same time, if I were that "squeaky clean", I'd look into changing my living arrangements to not be living with a prohibited person. I had a crazy roommate one time in college. The risks aren't worth it. Get out.

Tomcat47
June 10, 2011, 10:54 PM
The Links will show you how to get the UPIN! :)

Double Naught Spy
June 10, 2011, 11:04 PM
My buddy already owns guns and he is convinced that his roommate's driver's license and corresponding address must have come up on the background check and thus turned him into an instant prohibited person. BUT, how the hell can you be denied just because a prohibited person's address matches as yours, when YOU are the one making the purchase? How the hell does the state know that Osama is ACTUALLY living with you and not moved out, and by the way, it's legal to have firearms in the same dwelling as a prohibited person as long as they have no access whatsoever (as in TOTALLY PHYSICALLY LOCKED OUT from said firearms).

This just doesn't add up. If they're denying people now merely by running your address and if it happens to "hit" with the LISTED address (just listed and not being proof that Osama actually still lives there, LET ALONE has access to any guns), of a prohibited person, then that is ten times more frightening of a police state. That is making one hell of an assumption based on an address match.

Wow, you have gone from expressing a disbelief of your buddy's unrealistic beliefs to considering it to be possible and the whole destruction of society into being 10 times more frightening than a police state. That is quite a leap of faith based on a consideration about a set of circumstances you don't even believe to be true.

Heretic
June 10, 2011, 11:11 PM
If your friend failed a NICS check, he may not be legal possesing the guns he already has.

Has your friend been to see a shrink lately. I have a friend who lost his gun rights over an anti-gun shrink.

zxcvbob
June 10, 2011, 11:14 PM
My buddy already owns guns and he is convinced that his roommate's driver's license and corresponding address must have come up on the background check and thus turned him into an instant prohibited person. BUT, how the hell can you be denied just because a prohibited person's address matches as yours, when YOU are the one making the purchase?It looks that way, but it's probably not. Did he put his SSN on the 4473 form? (it's optional) Have him try it next time and see if it helps.

elcaminoariba
June 10, 2011, 11:15 PM
Wow, you have gone from expressing a disbelief of your buddy's unrealistic beliefs to considering it to be possible and the whole destruction of society into being 10 times more frightening than a police state. That is quite a leap of faith based on a consideration about a set of circumstances you don't even believe to be true.Wow I couldn't make sense of what you just said. Try rewriting your claim that I have somehow made some massive change.

Has your friend been to see a shrink lately. I have a friend who lost his gun rights over an anti-gun shrink.Nope.

It looks that way, but it's probably not. Did he put his SSN on the 4473 form? (it's optional) Have him try it next time and see if it helps.He's pretty laid back and probably DID put his SSN on there (unlike me who refuses), but I'll ask him.

orionengnr
June 10, 2011, 11:24 PM
Don't know where you live, but in my state (and a bunch of others) having a CHL/CCW/whatever obviates the NCIS check.

Just fill out the 4473, show your CHL, pay the purchase price, walk out with your new purchase. Life is good.

KingMedicine
June 11, 2011, 12:11 AM
People get denied all the time. A large volume of them are from a name/birthday/number matching or being close. Its not a huge deal, its just a pain in the rear. best option is to file an appeal, which if he is squeaky clean, will be approved and there will not be an issue.

Putting your SSN will help those mixups, and getting your CWP will make it so you dont even have to fill out those forms (at least in my state). That alone is worth the money for it even if you dont want to carry.

Issues happen... i got denied once because my zip code on my drivers licence was wrong. It happens... But i doubt it has a thing to do with a roommate.

Apocalypse-Now
June 11, 2011, 04:48 AM
what's the big deal here? :confused:


i got denied once, no reason given. the background check people make mistakes. it happens. i had to go to the local pd and get fingerprinted and wait the background check to come in the email before i could pick up the gun. the annoying thing was having to wait 2 weeks to pick up the gun.

buck460XVR
June 11, 2011, 10:23 AM
A good friend of mine was just denied. He's in the active military with a high security clearance. His Social Security number did not match the number the state had on file for his drivers license.

.............I doubt that the roommate had anything to do with the denial.

Sam1911
June 11, 2011, 10:47 AM
Sheesh. This started weird and went way off the tracks. (Next time you want to debate automobile licensing requirements here at THR. DON'T.)

Look, NICS is the law of the land, currently. This is how it works and what they ask (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=82):

How does NICS actually work?

Once a dealer and buyer are prepared to conclude a transfer, a retailer who does NICS checks by contacting the FBI system directly by phone will do the following:
1) Call a NICS operator by toll-free number and confirm his identity with his FFL number and dealer-selected password.
2) Provide the operator with the name, date-of-birth, sex and race of the potential buyer and the type of transfer--handgun or long gun. A buyer with a common name may, at his option, provide his Social Security number to help speed the check.
3) The system will check the data against its database of prohibited persons. If there is no "hit," the sale will be approved. The system will assign a NICS Transaction Number (NTN) to the approval. The dealer will log the NTN on the form 4473, and the transfer will proceed.
4) Partially completed forms 4473, where a proposed sale has been denied, will be required to be retained by the FFL per BATF regulations.
5) When a "hit" occurs, the dealer will receive instruction to delay the transaction. A "delay" response indicates that the check turned up information that requires further review by an analyst, who will contact the dealer by return call "within a couple of hours," the FBI says.
While the law provides three business days for the FBI to respond, the FBI anticipates that virtually every delay will be handled within a day. If records require further investigation, the FBI may take up to three days to issue either a proceed or a denial. There will be an appeals process for purchasers who feel they were denied in error, and dealers will be furnished with forms for this process.

Note, that's "Name, date of birth, and race." Not address.

just wondering if there is a new trend of government denying people by doing address matches via that wonderful government driver's licenseSo, NO. Because, by federal law, it doesn't work that way.

(If your state adds things to that list for their own checks, you'll have to take it up with them.)

If folks have cross-matches, or near matches, they can get denied. It happens fairly frequently. It has happened to many members here.

If your friend failed a NICS check, he may not be legal possessing the guns he already has.


NO. This isn't a criminal conviction, you haven't lost your rights to own a firearm.

There is an appeal process to get you back on track. Here, again is the information he needs to work out the problem: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/appeals/nics-appeals-process/appeal-faq.pdf

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