RUGER LCP vs. TAURUS COPY


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Tommygunn
June 11, 2011, 11:01 AM
At Academy Sports I was examining the Ruger LCP and noticed a Taurus .380 that seemed nearly identical for less $$. The clerk said it was a "copy" of the LCP. I unfortunatly don't recall the Taurus model number but it was clearly almost an exact copy except for some external features that had nothing to do with function.
I've heard good things about the Ruger LCP .... but I am curious as to what the reaction to the "nearly identical" Taurus .380 is.
What, in you opinion(s) is the quality/reliability of the Taurus?

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WC145
June 11, 2011, 11:07 AM
The LCP is a copy of the Kel-tec P3AT.
Don't know anything about the Taurus .380 except that I've owned Taurus products in the past and will not buy another.

harmon rabb
June 11, 2011, 11:19 AM
The LCP is a ripoff of the kel-tec P3AT. The Taurus TCP is actually NOT a ripoff, even though they're similar.

Fishman777
June 11, 2011, 11:20 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the Keltec AND the Taurus came out first. Taurus also had the 9 mm version out prior to the Ruger's 9mm version. It may have even been out before the LCP.

harmon rabb
June 11, 2011, 11:21 AM
The LCP was out before the TCP, but the Taurus PT709 (which is in no way a PF-9 ripoff, as it's striekr fired) was out before the LC9 (arguably a PF-9 ripoff).

basicblur
June 11, 2011, 11:34 AM
What, in you opinion(s) is the quality/reliability of the Taurus?
With Taurus, you pays your money, you takes your chances! :rolleyes:

And before I get accused of Taurus bashing, I once bought a PT145 Millennium Pro, knowing I was taking a chance when doing so (hasn't worked out so far).
I knew Taurus was a step down in quality/reliability from some other brands, but there was just so much to like 'bout the PT145.

I have a relative that's a gunsmith at a local store, and in 4 trips to the shop, 3 of those times I found him working on a new Taurus before the owner could put it in in the display case for sale.
I jest don't like those odds...

You'll no doubt hear from various owners that never had a problem with their Taurus, but in my research before purchasing my PT145, it seemed to me that Taurus quality seems to have suffered wild swings, maybe dependent on how many they're selling? I thought Taurus quality was improving, but maybe it became a victim of the boom in firearm sales.

Dimis
June 11, 2011, 11:35 AM
Taurus makes the 738 TCP but i dont see it looking like a knockoff or an exact copy of the LCP it definitely has its own look

the LCP and the Kel-Tek P3AT are very similar and the Kel-Tek tends to be less expensive

PX15
June 11, 2011, 11:51 AM
JMOfartO:

I've owned a Ruger firearm of one type or another for over forty years...

So far, (excuse me for a second while I knock on wood) NEVER had a bad one.

At present in our home we have a 357mag Security-Six, bought new sometime in the early 1970's. It is my wife's choice for her "bump in the nightstand" gun..

My Son (adult) has his Single-Six Convertible (22cal.) I bought him new when he was five years old. (He's 30 now)..

I have two LCP's and one LC9.. I carry the LCP daily in a rear pocket Lisa Hedley holster, and when I chose to carry iwb it's the LC9.

My wife has her own LCP (engraved model of course :rolleyes:).

Years ago, against my better judgement I bought a new Taurus PT22, and it was a POS. I traded into a used Taurus PT92? (the look alike of the Beretta the military is stuck with), and it had problems.

I don't buy Tauri' any longer..

Others mileage may vary,

Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. My former cc 9MM choice was a fine HK P2000sk.. I have been very surprised to find my Ruger LC9 is as accurate at self defense distance as the sk, and as my experience with all my Rugers, absolutely reliable.. I won't sell the sk, it's sweet,but it's in the gun safe.

CDW4ME
June 11, 2011, 01:14 PM
The Kel-Tec P3AT was first.
Ruger basically copied it with the LCP.
I bought a LCP when they first came out, so I have original and copy.

Taurus has a internal lock so I'm not interested.

Ruger puts internal locks on the LC9 :mad: Why? If the LCP didn't need it why would the LC9?

I won't sell my LCP since I bought it prior to Ruger sticking internal locks in things, but I wouldn't buy another, even if a new LCP didn't have the IL, out of principle.

Ruger may make a better product, but Kel-Tec wins for originality and simplicity. I would honestly rather take my chances on a Kel-Tec knowing that I might have to send it back, rather than buy from a company that sticks internal locks on some / all products.

PX15
June 11, 2011, 01:39 PM
CDW:

Everyone has his/her own opinion about the desirability or lack thereof of the "internal safeties" Ruger chose to put on the 9MM LC9..

I have an LC9 and love it. I don't care about the "additions" that cause you concern, I do care that every time I pull the trigger I know the pistol will fire, and it's more than self defense accurate.

The internal lock, manual safety, magazine safety and loaded chamber indicator of my LC9 might actually be a plus to some folks who care about such things, but I don't. The presence of these unnecessary items on my LC9 is not a plus for me, but nor are they deal breakers.

I never use the "internal lock", I'm a lefty, but wouldn't use the external lock if their were one on on both sides, the magazine safety is simply no problem for me, and surprisingly I actually like the funky loaded chamber indicator.

I have only two requirements for MY cc choice..

1. Reliability - And I've NEVER had an unreliable Ruger firearm. Period.
2. Self defense range accuracy. - My LC9 is actually MORE than self defense range accurate...

That's it..

I'm sure the addition of these safety gizmo's that annoy you were done to make the LC9 legal in some of the states that require such crap.. I don't fault Ruger for wanting the largest market available for their guns.. In this economy it's smart business.

There are actually some gun-buying folks who SEEK such things as the external safety, loaded chamber indicator, etc... Generally I would suggest it's that segment of the gun buying public who are not really "gun nuts" (such as I am, and I would suggest you are also), are NOT experienced with guns, and such things make them feel "safer"...

So, Ruger is targeting the largest market and that's smart business.

I believe those of us who have been "into" firearms for a long time (half a century in my case) recognize these unnecessary (in our opinions) additions to a very nice 9MM pistol and either decide to ignore 'em, or in your case, not buy the pistol because of them.

That's what's wonderful about America.. You can express your appreciation, or dissatisfaction with these unnecessary additions to the otherwise fine LC9 with your pocketbook..

I voted.... I bought my LC9 and it's good enough that it has replaced my previous 9MM carry pistol (HK P2000sk) for iwb carry..

Reliability ~ accurate...:D

No offense to you sir.. Not confrontin', just conversin'.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_2504.jpg

Average Joe
June 11, 2011, 01:40 PM
Think resale, it would be easier to sell a Ruger than a Taurus.

gofastman
June 11, 2011, 01:55 PM
the TCP isn't a copy of the LCP.

It is a much better gun than the LCP.

PX15
June 11, 2011, 03:31 PM
The Tauru' TCP is a much "better gun" than the Ruger LCP?

Sure it is......;)

"Quot capita tot sensus"......


Jesse

P.S. The search function on any firearms forum on the net on this question will be your friend....

kokapelli
June 11, 2011, 05:08 PM
I have a TCP and have shot the LCP that my son used to own extensively and IMO the TCP is clearly a better shooting gun than the LCP but if you have a brand bias I'm sure he TCP will work just fine for you.

PX15
June 11, 2011, 05:14 PM
Well..

I guess that settles it then..

Can't argue with a man who has fired ONE example of the Ruger LCP vs ONE example of the Tauri TCP..

I'm so depressed now hearing these facts that I'm almost tempted to sell my three LCP's..

Not... :D

Jesse

P.S. koka... Just messing with ya.. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinions.. I'm just glad we have choices..

kokapelli
June 11, 2011, 05:41 PM
Well..

I guess that settles it then..

Can't argue with a man who has fired ONE example of the Ruger LCP vs ONE example of the Tauri TCP..

I'm so depressed now hearing these facts that I'm almost tempted to sell my three LCP's..

Not... :D

Jesse

P.S. koka... Just messing with ya.. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinions.. I'm just glad we have choices..

It has been my experience that if a gun works it is going to feel the same as every other working model of that gun. :D

Tommygunn
June 11, 2011, 05:57 PM
:)

Ha....
It wasn't my intention to spark a debate.:o As far as the two guns, (it was the TCP I was thinking about ) I had no idea which was the "copy," I was only repeating what the counterguy said.
As far as the guns being "copies," that in itself I really don't care about, they're guns, not Da Vinci paintings. :p I am thinking of one and am right now leaning toward the Ruger because it seems likely -- to me -- that it is more reliable than Taurus (NOT intending to hurt Taurus guys here it is ONLY an opinion and like everyone's bellybutton I gotz one too).
The price difference doesn't bother me; it will be for defense CCW and you can't put a price on life.

basicblur
June 11, 2011, 06:24 PM
As far as the guns being "copies," that in itself I really don't care about
Yeah-unless there's a clear case of theft etc, I just buy what works for me-let the lawyers figure out if company A ripped off company B etc.

As both an LCP and LC9 owner, if you can live with the size difference, you might check out the LC9 before you take the plunge on the LCP. I kinda think the LC9 is the gun the LCP should have been (mainly the slide lock after the last round and the sights-safety is a toss-up).

‘Course I realize you’re talking a little more money-I paid $65 more for the LC9 over the LCP-but you’ll soon more than regain the price difference due to 9mm vs 380 ammo costs.

PX15
June 11, 2011, 08:49 PM
Basicblur:

I concur that if the gentleman is looking for a concealed carry weapon for use with an IWB holster the LC9 is definitely the best "bang for the buck"..

For me personally, (and I have both) I find I can cc my LCP in my rear pocket holster almost anyplace, anytime as it's just smaller enough than the LC9 to allow that..

No doubt the advantages of the 9MM round over the 380rd is obvious, but if I have a choice of my LCP in my back pocket, or the LC9 at home because it was too large to carry on a specific occasion I'll take the LCP every time.

I remain amazed at the absolute reliability and surprisingly accuracy of both pistols. In fact my LC9 (at self defense range) can hang with my pricey H&K P2000sk all day long as far as shooting the smallest groups are concerned...

And THAT was a surprise....:eek:

I've been guilty (on this thread) of yanking the chain of another poster who favors the TCP over the LCP, but in reality as long as I can carry the firearm of MY choice I have no issue with which firearm another person prefers as personal preference in anything is subjective..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

CDW4ME
June 11, 2011, 10:39 PM
CDW:

I have an LC9 and love it. I don't care about the "additions" that cause you concern, I do care that every time I pull the trigger I know the pistol will fire, and it's more than self defense accurate.

The internal lock, manual safety, magazine safety and loaded chamber indicator of my LC9 might actually be a plus to some folks who care about such things, but I don't. The presence of these unnecessary items on my LC9 is not a plus for me, but nor are they deal breakers.

I never use the "internal lock", I'm a lefty, but wouldn't use the external lock if their were one on on both sides, the magazine safety is simply no problem for me, and surprisingly I actually like the funky loaded chamber indicator.

I have only two requirements for MY cc choice..

1. Reliability - And I've NEVER had an unreliable Ruger firearm. Period.
2. Self defense range accuracy. - My LC9 is actually MORE than self defense range accurate...

That's it..

I'm sure the addition of these safety gizmo's that annoy you were done to make the LC9 legal in some of the states that require such crap.. I don't fault Ruger for wanting the largest market available for their guns.. In this economy it's smart business.

There are actually some gun-buying folks who SEEK such things as the external safety, loaded chamber indicator, etc... Generally I would suggest it's that segment of the gun buying public who are not really "gun nuts" (such as I am, and I would suggest you are also), are NOT experienced with guns, and such things make them feel "safer"...

So, Ruger is targeting the largest market and that's smart business.

I believe those of us who have been "into" firearms for a long time (half a century in my case) recognize these unnecessary (in our opinions) additions to a very nice 9MM pistol and either decide to ignore 'em, or in your case, not buy the pistol because of them.

That's what's wonderful about America.. You can express your appreciation, or dissatisfaction with these unnecessary additions to the otherwise fine LC9 with your pocketbook..

I voted.... I bought my LC9 and it's good enough that it has replaced my previous 9MM carry pistol (HK P2000sk) for iwb carry..

Reliability ~ accurate...:D

No offense to you sir.. Not confrontin', just conversin'.

Best Wishes,

Jesse



Jesse, I understand where you are coming from. Ruger makes reliable pistols, I've had a couple and they were 100% dependable. I also realize the IL is a concession to the restrictive laws of some states. Obviously I don't like internal locks, but if a company is going to use them then they should stick them on every model they produce, not just some; either they are necessary or not. I've got a S&W 686 that I've owned since 1987 and a Bodyguard from the early 1990's, neither has an IL. S&W sticks IL on their current revolvers, but not their 1911 and that is not consistent. Springfield sticks IL on their 1911's but not the XD series, again not consistent; I had a SA XDsc in 9mm and another in 40 and sold them both over the principle. Kimber, Colt, Glock, Kahr and Kel-Tec do not go sticking internal locks on their products an they will get my business. No offense taken from your well written reply sir. :)

Strahley
June 12, 2011, 01:53 AM
The TCP is a clone of the Kel Tec, just as the Ruger is. However, Taurus did a much better job. It is a better gun in every way. And yes, I've shot both

My TCP rides in my front pocket with me every day, and I trust it 100% to do its job if it is ever called upon. I usually have it as a BUG, but sometimes I use it as a primary carry option

JustinJ
June 13, 2011, 09:31 AM
The Ruger may be a keltek copy but i consider it an improvement as well in quality. I've heard way too many Taurus horror stories to ever consider one.

roachcore
June 13, 2011, 11:37 PM
I like the TCP much better. The trigger is far superior slide locks back after last round fired and comes with two mags. But that's just my opinion check them both out make your own choice

Apocalypse-Now
June 14, 2011, 12:06 AM
the trigger on the LCP sucks. the TCP, well, it's a taurus.

i'd take the s&w bodyguard over either (and not because of the cheesy laser lol)

GRIZ22
June 14, 2011, 12:31 AM
The LCP is a ripoff of the kel-tec P3AT.

Patent rights expire, that's the way business is conducted. Would you call all the 1911s made out there ripoffs from Colt?

exavid
June 14, 2011, 12:42 AM
I've got 'em both, a TCP and an LCP. For me both guns have been completely reliable. I tend to prefer the TCP for trigger pull, lock back on last shot and the fact that it came with two magazines. I like the LCP for it's great looks, slightly better ergonomics and the magazine finger extension that came with it. I carry either one depending on which one is handier to stick in my pocket at the time. I also have a couple of larger caliber Taurii, a .40S&W slim compact, and a 24/7 PRO .45 both of which are accurate and reliable. My 9mm is a Ruger SR9 which is also a fine performing pistol. Of all my handguns the 9mm and the .45 are the most pleasant to shoot. Very low felt recoil with both of them and a longer sighting plane for more accuracy, but a bit big for concealed carry except in cold weather.

Bush Pilot
June 14, 2011, 12:46 AM
Think resale, it would be easier to sell a Ruger than a Taurus.
Unless the buyer was looking for a paperweight.

MCgunner
June 14, 2011, 07:16 AM
Patent rights haven't had time to expire on the P3AT. But, I'm sure Ruger found a way around the patents.

Think resale, it would be easier to sell a Ruger than a Taurus.

Why? This argument is lame as hell, especially on a cheap gun, 300 bucks.:rolleyes: I don't resell guns anymore. I've let too many good ones slip away. I only have a few I don't miss. I figure poor resale value is why I got two fantastic used Taurus 66s at such great prices.

I love my Rugers, but between these two guns, i'd get the stainless Taurus PT738. My SIL has one. I've shot both. The TCP shoots better and looks better to my eyes. I really have no need for a .380 of this type, though, as my Kel Tec P11 9x19 is my preferred pocket carry. It was, also, the first of the pocket 9s. I also have an old Grendel P12, shoots reliably, but don't really like it. It's the same size as a LCP except it's almost an inch wide and it's 12 ounces. Length and height, though, are the same or very nearly so. It holds 12 rounds for the extra width. It was the ground breaker in small .380s, though it's a blow back, not a locked breach gun. It is a modification of the P10 which did not have a removable magazine and which did have some problems. The problems were ironed out in the P12, but I still don't like the gun very much and never carry the thing, prefer my P11. That in no way affects the TCP vs the LCP just that the Mr. George Kelgren (founder of Kel Tec) was the enovator and all others are copies. The P3AT was his refinement of the old Grendel idea, but with some new twists that made it work a lot better. If all you want is to get the gun that isn't a copy, get the P3AT.

Shipwreck
June 14, 2011, 07:21 AM
Ya know... My dislike of Taurus is no secret. Honestly, if someone GAVE me a new Taurus, I would not keep it . One only need look at many guns on the store shelves. The quality on many of them is horrendous. One only also need look on the various forums. A high percentage of them have problems straight out of the box, or on the first range trip.

I realize that human nature is to complain instead of praise... But, the % of complaints (on all the various gun forums) about Taurus against other brands of guns doesn't even compare. And the stories of dealing with their customer service are maddening. Sometimes they send guns back MULTIPLE times without doing ANYTHING. I've seen some threads go for 18 months, where a person goes thru the Taurus "experience" in getting their gun fixed. It's just ridiculous...

I didn't start saving Taurus threads until a few months ago - so, unfortunately, I don't have some of the more depressing stories I have read. But here are a few:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?117107-Taurus-Customer-Service-(TCP-738)

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1235937

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/7840024622

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414483

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=95429

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=95737

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=988704&highlight=taurus

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=468344&highlight=taurus

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/wheelguns/143537-bought-taurus-m44-took-home-broken-right-out-box.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=530209&highlight=taurus

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408285&highlight=taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403850&highlight=taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403886&highlight=taurus+quality

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399341

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/non-xd-handguns/146985-taurus-709-slim-ftes-galore-help.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399391&highlight=taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386816&highlight=taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=383314&highlight=taurus+quality

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/non-xd-handguns/147693-taurus-warranty-work.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381103&highlight=taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379615&highlight=taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370904&highlight=taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415691

http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp?gid=20259&gun=Pistol

http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=63479

http://www.handgunforum.net/taurus/26744-taurus-changed-my-mind.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445334&page=3 (see post #51)

MCgunner
June 14, 2011, 07:33 AM
If I like the gun, I buy it. I've found few I didn't like that I bought. The Grendel is one of those and I kept it anyway. It works, just don't like the trigger/ergos on the thing and it's not that accurate, accurate enough for self defense, just I own more accurate guns of the type. I own three Taurus revolvers that work very well and are every bit the equal of any K or J frame Smith and Wesson of any era. Smith and Wesson has had some issues of late, too, and they're often twice the price depending on the similar model being compared. There are some Smiths I like, though, but the pricing puts me off.

A blanket statement that all Taurus handguns (or most other major brands) are crap just shows an internet level of maturity, IMHO. I admit, there are some makes I don't like, for instance I don't like Hi Point. I can't say it's because they don't shoot well or are crap cause I never owned one. I just think they're fugly, personal bias.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
June 14, 2011, 07:37 AM
The Taurus looks great in the store's display cabinet from ten feet away. Ask to look at one and hold it and look closely at the way it is made and you immediately can see that the fit and finish of the gun is horrendous.

The price tag looks great, however buy some item made in China at a cheap price and find out the hard way that most of the imported Chinese stuff is pure junk.

MCgunner
June 14, 2011, 07:45 AM
Taurus is Brasilian, not Chinese. :rolleyes: I find the quality of my Taurus revolvers, fit and finish and especially accuracy and trigger function, to be on par with the much more expensive Smith and Wesson. I don't have to ask to look at 'em cause I own 'em. :rolleyes: I often compare my 4" 66 to my 60s era Smith M10 and it fairs quite well in that comparison. It shoots better than my old M19, too, a gun that I sold that I wish I hadn't. :rolleyes: I don't miss it that much, though, cause the Taurus is a better shooter.

Oh, and I have a couple of Chinese SKSs I have no complaints about, either.

JustinJ
June 14, 2011, 09:02 AM
Like i've said before, everyone i know with a taurus tells me how great their customer service is which is exactly why i'll never buy one.

I own an LCP and it has always run flawlessly although it's not the most comfortable gun to shoot.

Shipwreck
June 14, 2011, 09:53 AM
A blanket statement that all Taurus handguns (or most other major brands) are crap just shows an internet level of maturity, IMHO.

At what point is enough, enough. I'm on almost every gun forum there is. I've seen enough about Taurus. But, some will make your statement and deny it. Whatever. At some point, enough's enough, when ya read the horror stories.

Taurus isn't the only one. I've read things about other companies that will keep me from buying other brands. But nothing in the sheer quantity that I see about Taurus.

Alicia
June 14, 2011, 10:34 AM
I am actually trying to decide myself between the LCP, the TCP and the Bodyguard - decisions, decisions! I'm a newbie to all this, purchasing my first gun just a couple months ago, a Taurus PT22 which I love and was good for learning on but I want something with a bigger caliber since my whole point is personal protection. I'm planning on heading into the store tomorrow to hold all 3 and see if that helps my decision - see how they feel and all. I'm hoping they'll even have ones to try out there, I know they rent for the range but I don't know how broad a selection they have to rent. I think they're all about the same size but I also need to figure out conceal-ability since most women's pants pockets are MUCH smaller than guys I'll have to use a holster somewhere.

Just to throw it out there, the Taurus TCP is actually made in the USA. The magazines are made in Brazil but the gun itself is manufactured here.

JustinJ
June 14, 2011, 10:39 AM
Another post has me considering selling my LCP and getting a Bodyguard.

crracer_712
June 14, 2011, 10:43 AM
I find the quality of my Taurus revolvers, fit and finish and especially accuracy and trigger function, to be on par with the much more expensive Smith and Wesson.

LOL

crracer_712
June 14, 2011, 10:44 AM
Another post has me considering selling my LCP and getting a Bodyguard.

I think the LCP is a fine gun, copy and all. At least for a copy, its a better copy, IMO. As for the Body Guard, that's the one I want. Better sights(heck, it HAS sights), and last shot hold open.

crracer_712
June 14, 2011, 10:47 AM
I am actually trying to decide myself between the LCP, the TCP and the Bodyguard - decisions, decisions! I'm a newbie to all this, purchasing my first gun just a couple months ago, a Taurus PT22 which I love and was good for learning on but I want something with a bigger caliber since my whole point is personal protection. I'm planning on heading into the store tomorrow to hold all 3 and see if that helps my decision - see how they feel and all. I'm hoping they'll even have ones to try out there, I know they rent for the range but I don't know how broad a selection they have to rent. I think they're all about the same size but I also need to figure out conceal-ability since most women's pants pockets are MUCH smaller than guys I'll have to use a holster somewhere.


The most recent BG380's seem to have the Bugs worked out, no pun intended. You have a pocket concern and I think the LCP would be a better fit. It's a very reliable pistol.

Alicia
June 14, 2011, 10:55 AM
I'll give the LCP a good look, thanks. I was torn between the Bodyguard and the TCP, it wasn't until I began researching online I stumbled on the LCP so I didn't notice it in person at the store the other day. I was leaning towards the Taurus since I have one already and I know not to buy a gun for the color, lol, but the TCP looks really cute in pink ;)

kokapelli
June 14, 2011, 11:03 AM
I'll give the LCP a good look, thanks. I was torn between the Bodyguard and the TCP, it wasn't until I began researching online I stumbled on the LCP so I didn't notice it in person at the store the other day. I was leaning towards the Taurus since I have one already and I know not to buy a gun for the color, lol, but the TCP looks really cute in pink ;)
In order to make an intelligent decision it would be nice if you could shoot both.

Alicia
June 14, 2011, 11:26 AM
In order to make an intelligent decision it would be nice if you could shoot both.
That's my hope - I'm heading down there tomorrow and am going to see what they have available to shoot. I don't know if they make everything available or just certain popular models but we'll see. I'd love to be able to shoot all 3.

SwampWolf
June 14, 2011, 02:27 PM
Patent rights haven't had time to expire on the P3AT. But, I'm sure Ruger found a way around the patents.

I'm curious: what on the P3AT did Kel-Tec patent? The basic design (that is, the way it "works") of the pistol has been around forever. You can't patent size and weight so I'm really wondering exactly what patents were awarded to Kel-Tec. Anybody know?

MCgunner
June 14, 2011, 07:47 PM
I'd think, if anything was patented, it'd be the hammer design which is fresh to my knowledge, a preloaded hammer vs striker. I really don't know, though. They aren't in a court battle with Ruger, so I figure Ruger has a decent legal department. Smith and Wesson seems to be copying ideas if not pattents all the time. The M&P (Glock), the "Governor" (Taurus Judge), etc.

surferdaddy
June 15, 2011, 11:03 AM
I know this is just one example, but.... I have a TCP in stainless which I was leery of 'til I shot it, a lot, it has been flawless and accurate (admittedly to my surprise). I have an LC9 which has been slumber partying in Arizona for a couple of weeks, not what I was expecting either.

harmon rabb
June 15, 2011, 11:08 AM
I know this is just one example, but.... I have a TCP in stainless which I was leery of 'til I shot it, a lot, it has been flawless and accurate (admittedly to my surprise). I have an LC9 which has been slumber partying in Arizona for a couple of weeks, not what I was expecting either.

I have a Taurus PT-709 that's been flawless since day 1. Their products are MUCH improved these days.

tinygnat219
June 15, 2011, 12:23 PM
At Academy Sports I was examining the Ruger LCP and noticed a Taurus .380 that seemed nearly identical for less $$.
Yeah, the Taurus should be a little cheaper.

The clerk said it was a "copy" of the LCP. I unfortunatly don't recall the Taurus model number but it was clearly almost an exact copy except for some external features that had nothing to do with function.
Nope. The Taurus has some different things going for it like last round hold open along with a manual safety as well as a much shorter DAO pull. It's Ruger that copied the Kel-Tec P3AT.

harmon rabb
June 15, 2011, 02:01 PM
the TCP does not have a manual safety. the PT709 does, and is completely different than the PF-9 and LC9 because it's a striker fired gun with double strike capability. perhaps the TCP is largely inspired by the LCP and P3AT, but the PT709 is a pure taurus design, copied from nobody.

cls12vg30
June 15, 2011, 02:59 PM
My PT709 has been flawless as well, and a joy to shoot compared to the PF-9. It's got just over 500 rounds through it with nary a hiccup, and the trigger is much nicer than the DAO rivals.

My pocket gun is a P3-AT, just because I've been carrying their pocket pistols for several years, since before any of the others came along. I like the TCP, though, it has good features and that little extra weight at the muzzle end of the slide seems to really help the recoil. I do not like the smoother grip of the LCP.

Tommygunn
June 15, 2011, 11:41 PM
OK, thanks for all the answers.

I have purchased the Ruger LCP. I like it pretty well.
As for it being a copy of the TCP rather than the other way around, I really don't care so much.
My main criteria was that I felt the Ruger was likely more reliable. No offense to the Taurus fans, it's just an opinion.

FenderTK421
June 16, 2011, 03:21 AM
My LCP is atrocious... 3 times to Ruger and it still fails. Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of Ruger, at least for their metal framed guns. I bought the TCP to replace it and couldn't be happier. It's everything the LCP was supposed to be and more. The Taurus absolutely wins the pocket pistol category hands down. I would sell the LCP, but I fear it is so unreliable that it should be destroyed. Instead it it is locked up with a butchered Krag that will never see the light of day.

MachIVshooter
June 16, 2011, 04:40 AM
Patent rights haven't had time to expire on the P3AT. But, I'm sure Ruger found a way around the patents

The P3AT wasn't patented at all. George Kelgren only holds one patent, and it's for the dual extractor system on the RFB.

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=7469496&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP

It'd be very difficult to patent an entire gun, especially in this day and age. Most are for specific parts or component systems within the gun.

SwampWolf
June 16, 2011, 04:13 PM
Thanks MachIVshooter: that's exactly what I suspected and is why I challenged anyone to name any patents awarded to Kel-Tec for the 3AT pistol-"patents" which Ruger has been accused of either violating or using their "legal team" to sneak around. :scrutiny:

jon_in_wv
June 17, 2011, 11:07 AM
Why are we still proliferating this GARBAGE!?!?! KelTec had NO patents on the P3AT, NONE. You can't violate patents that don't exist. Besides that fact, imitation is the name of the game in the firearms business. Do you really think Taurus came up with the idea of making a DAO pistol with a plastic grip frame housing a metal receiver completely independent of Keltec? It just a coincidence huh. I also suppose non of you complainers owns a 1911 that doesn't say COLT on the side right? How about the Mauser action? Only on your Mauser right? I'm sure you have excuses why its ok for Taurus to sell Beretta copies, or S&W copies but not for Ruger. All I'm asking for is a little intellectual honestly folks. Its all been done to death, get over it.

kokapelli
June 17, 2011, 11:31 AM
Oh for crying out loud if it bothers you just don't buy the gun. It's like the people that refused to buy a P3AT because it's a KelTec but had no problem buying what is basically the same gun because it's a Ruger.:rolleyes:

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