What is a current caliber running that you see failing to "make it"


June 11, 2011, 09:02 PM
My vote is SIG .357 and 10mm

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Ala Dan
June 11, 2011, 10:07 PM

June 11, 2011, 10:23 PM
I sure hope the 10mm makes it as I think it's great. By far my favorite semi-auto pistol round.

.45 GAP maybe?

June 11, 2011, 10:25 PM
.45 GAP

.357 SIG and 10mm both have really good followings. .357 SIG can be found at Wal-mart and that says something.

Mike J
June 11, 2011, 10:34 PM
Another vote for .45 GAP here.

June 11, 2011, 10:35 PM
.327 Federal. (But I hope I'm wrong, since I want one)

June 11, 2011, 10:48 PM
I would say .45 GAP myself. I Think the 10 and .357 Sig have enough following to keep it alive.

I actually think .327 Federal will make it! I want a Ruger SP101 or a Model 327Taurus.

Since the .327 still shares all case dimensions, excluding length, with the other .32 caliber cartridges going back to the .32 S&W, revolvers chambered for it can safely chamber and fire the other three cartridges for lower cost and lower recoil practice.

.32 H&R
.32 S&W

June 12, 2011, 12:11 AM
45 gap 327 , 25NAA 32NAA

My dealer has sold 1 327. Guy bought hoping to be a collector item. Got 1 box of ammo also and has never fired it.

June 12, 2011, 01:49 AM
My first thought was .45 GAP as well. In my area .357 Sig is not a commonly used caliber in my experience. The same goes for 10mm. But I am in a larger urban area where most guns people purchase are .380 ACP, 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP in their pistols. As far as revolvers go I do believe it is .38s and .357 Magnums. There is not much hunting here and even less handgun hunting so I suspect these are all defensive guns.

June 12, 2011, 01:56 AM
.38 & .357 Will be here when we are ALL gone! (MO)

The .40 will go away before they do! :what:

And I dont care for the .40 anyway! Rather have the original... a 10mm! :D

June 12, 2011, 01:58 AM
.45 GAP, .357 SIG, 10mm. I will never own a pistol chambered in any of these calibers

June 12, 2011, 02:18 AM
9x23 Winchester is a cartridge that I really find appealing but find few offering for. To my knowledge, Winchester manufactures it.

June 12, 2011, 03:07 AM
Tomcat, hate to tell you, friend, but the .40 is no more likely to go away than the .38/.357 (read: not in our lifetimes) and that's fine by me!

.45 GAP is a goner. Unfortunate. Ballistically excellent.

June 12, 2011, 03:17 AM
Of the ones that have come out in the last decade or so I say the 45 GAP and 327 Federal. Im sure they will refuse to die though and just be a burden on the gun community.

I wish the 357 Sig would displace the 40 as I see it has every advantage of the 40 and none of the disadvantages. The 40 never should have happened.

June 12, 2011, 03:45 AM
As much as I like it I wouldn't even consider the 10mm in the running for a mainstream cartridge. Neither is the .45 GAP or .357 SIG.

In terms of cartridges that actually stand a chance ... The .327 would get my vote for this.
Why? Simple. The .357 and .38 have become so common and are available from any serious gun store in so many different loadings that there really is no reason for the .327 to exist. For penetration it works about as nice as a .357 and mostly the people who use those don't care if they recoil ... For ease of shooting the .38 is downloadable so far that the people wanting light recoil don't need to buy a less available and more expensive round as well.

Sam Cade
June 12, 2011, 03:50 AM
As much as I like it I wouldn't even consider the 10mm in the running for a mainstream cartridge. Neither is the .45 GAP or .357 SIG.

The .357 SIG isnt going away for a long long time.

The SIG-Sauer P229 in .357 SIG is currently one of the standard issue firearms carried by special agents and Uniformed Division officers of the United States Secret Service, the Bureau of Industry and Security, the Bastrop County, Texas, Sheriff's Office, Delaware State Police, Rhode Island State Police, Alameda County Sheriff's Office, Virginia State Police, Federal Air Marshals, Montana Highway Patrol, and the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration. The Pennsylvania Game Commission replaced the .357 Mag. with the .357 SIG. In most cases, it has replaced 10 mm, .40 S&W and 9 mm loads. In 1995, the Texas Highway Patrol became the first government agency to implement the .357 SIG. The Tennessee Highway Patrol presently issues the Glock 31 pistol chambered in .357 SIG. The Mississippi Highway Patrol issues a special Mississippi model of the Glock 31 Generation 4 with their logo engraved on the weapon.[20][21] The Bedford Heights Police Department in Ohio currently issues the Glock 31/32/33. The Elloree Police Department in South Carolina Elloree Police also issues the Glock 31, .357 SIG and the Madison Police Department in Madison, WV issues the Glock 32 in .357 SIG. The Lexington Police Department in North Carolina issues the Sig P229 DAK in .357 Sig. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol issues the SIG-Sauer P226 in .357 SIG. The Paramus Police Department in New Jersey also issues the SIG P226 in .357 SIG. The West Grove Borough Police Department, West Grove PA, also carry the SIG-Sauer P226 in the .357 SIG caliber. The North Carolina State Highway Patrol uses Smith & Wesson M&P's chambered in .357 SIG The Herculaneum Police Department in Herculaneum, Missouri uses the P226 and P229 in .357 SIG <---Wikipedia

June 12, 2011, 03:55 AM
I can't even find a gun that fires the cartridge around here! Much less the ammo!
What's with the vacuum here?

June 12, 2011, 03:59 AM
Yeah, I agree.

357 Sig, 45 GAP, AND 327 Fed are not mainstream despite what their fanboys say.

Yes, they may be around for a long time to come but that does not make them popular unless you consider a niche following popular.

June 12, 2011, 04:01 AM
I wish the 357 Sig would displace the 40 as I see it has every advantage of the 40 and none of the disadvantages.

Just curious what disadvantages we're talking about. A lesser magazine capacity is the only disadvantage I can think of off-hand for the .40S&W, a disadvantage shared by the .357 Sig as well. For the record, I quite like both the .40 S&W and .357 Sig. However, if the 165gr Bonded Rangers I have in my M&P40c have disadvantages I don't know about, I'd sure like to know about it.

June 12, 2011, 04:24 AM
357 sig seems to have been designed to fail. Maybe if it had a real crimp to avoid those setback KBs/jams, or headspaced on the shoulder, or rim to extend brass life. 45 gap, 327, and eventually Ide bet FN's 5.7 will probably get much harder to find in the US

June 12, 2011, 04:59 AM
.25 NAA and .32 NAA.

Maybe .327 magnum. Probably .45 GAP.

June 12, 2011, 05:54 AM
The 45. gap...........................:banghead:

June 12, 2011, 06:33 AM
The 10mm is a niche caliber no doubt but seems to have enough of a following amongst hunters and reloaders to remain viable. Certainly not going to get a following from LE. They got the 40 from the 10mm experiements by the FBI. Some LE Depts. are using the 357Sig so that may remain. If I were to guess, the GAP is more of a candidate for extinction at this point.

June 12, 2011, 06:37 AM
Never heard of the .45 gap... Added to my list!!

June 12, 2011, 06:46 AM
The 45 GAP is a Glock thing. A couple of PD's use it, but not a huge following. It was a solution looking for a problem IMO.

June 12, 2011, 06:52 AM
45 GAP
357 sig
10 mm
throw in 500 S&W in revolvers
(and 327 Federal in revolvers,and WSM/WSSMs in rifles, 17HM2 in rimfire)
pretty much in that order

no cartridge ever really dies, somebody somewhere will always at least handload 'em, some boutique shop will still sell 'em, but mainstream, no, all solutions in search of a problem that was already long solved

harmon rabb
June 12, 2011, 07:43 AM
definitely 45GAP. also, those silly bottlenecked NAA cartridges.

June 12, 2011, 07:57 AM
I've got a Glock 38 (45 GAP), it's a nice pistol; it's got a frame the size of a 19/23, but holds 8 + 1 of 45 GAP.
Power is like a 45 acp, Winchester 230 JHP 45 GAP averaged 831 fps from the 4'' barrel.
The 45 GAP may not "make it" since Glock is it's only current maker, but I'll hang onto this one anyway.
Funny thing, during the "ammo crisis" not too long ago one could obtain 45 GAP at Gander Mt.

Not fitting into the mainstream once again, I've also got 357 SIG.
My little 33 (same size as G26) shoots a 125 gr. Gold Dot @ 1,315 fps = 480# KE
I thought the inherent feed reliability of the bottleneck cartridge along with ballistics comparable to a short barrel 357 mag revolver made a nice combination; the 33 is like having a 10 shot 357 mag.
Yes, I've seen 357 SIG at Wal-Mart.

At least with the two non-mainstream calibers I've got I know that all makes of ammo are loaded to approximately the same level of power :D .... the people who have the 10mm have to figure out if they are getting "full power" ammunition or the "medium velocity" stuff that isn't any more powerful than 40 S&W :neener:

sigma 40ve
June 12, 2011, 08:35 AM
I have a G33(357sig) and a G29(10mm), I like them both. A couple of weeks ago I was at a Gander Mtn. Not that I would buy ammo there, I was checking out their prices. I looked and they didn't have any 10mm. They had everything else mentioned in this thread. At the NRA convention and show this year, Starline brass had their usual display. They always have a listing of what they have brought for sale there. 10mm wasn't listed, and last year it was listed and had sold out. Seeing that I hate to say but I wonder about the 10mm. Hopefully there will enough weapon manufacurers with products to keep it alive.

June 12, 2011, 08:42 AM
Regretbly another vote for the .327 Mag.

This should be selling out and available everywhere.
A really good cartridge in a nice sized package.


June 12, 2011, 08:51 AM
10mm? Georgia Arms has plenty. Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, Swamp Fox have it as well although not cheap for SD ammo.. I can get range ammo for about .40 cents a round plus shipping from GA Arms.

June 12, 2011, 09:53 AM
In order of extinction:

.45 GAP - only one pistol currently being made for it. Its surviving because Glock has been blowing them out to some LEO agencies.

10 mm - not a lot new being made but it will survive for quite a long time due to its loyal fanbase. Your very limited in "new" pistols being offered in this caliber.

327 - biggest blow is that it is a revolver cartridge but I know of 3 manufactureres that are currently offering revolvers in this caliber...I think it will make it.

As a pistol cartridge - the 5.7x28mm - only one pistol being made for this that I know of...the pistol is expensive and so is the ammo. Extreme niche here for personal use. PDW will keep it viable as a cartridge.

June 12, 2011, 10:00 AM
That FN 5 seven is a novelty gun

June 12, 2011, 10:28 AM
That FN 5 seven is a novelty gun

Yah - it would be way down on my list of anything to buy, that is, if it were on my list...:D

June 12, 2011, 10:36 AM
5.7x28mm and .45 GAP. Niche guns but most likely goners, IMHO

red rick
June 12, 2011, 10:48 AM
I agree .45 GAP.

harmon rabb
June 12, 2011, 10:51 AM
Btw, on the topic of .327mag, I think the cartridge has just been marketed stupidly. The real use for this thing is in snubs. You get an extra round over .357mag, and .327mag can match the ballistics of any shootable .357mag load out of a snub.

I wish Ruger would release a LCR in .327mag.

June 12, 2011, 11:03 AM
I hope .327 makes it, I bought a sp 101 3". It is a nice gun-ammo combination. I just don't see 45gap, 10mm or .357sig growing anytime soon. I am envisioning a really small 5 shot mini revolver in .327. Something a bit smaller than the j frame. A piece that would truely fit in a pocket.:evil:

harmon rabb
June 12, 2011, 11:07 AM
Yeah, that's definitely another idea for the .327.

June 12, 2011, 11:21 AM
5.7x28mm is going to hang around. Lots of Ps90 rifles out there. Great little niche PDW.

10mm isn't going anywhere. Still the king of autoloaders.

357 Sig probally will hang around for a while longer, but It is allready dieing off fast. Lighter/faster .40 ammo has made 357 Sig obsolete.

.45 Gap Which is too bad, it's a good round and a Good Glock handgun.

.32ACP Allready super rare in my area. Most shops stock it just to say they stock it. That old, dusty, faded box of ammo hasn't moved in years.

June 12, 2011, 11:57 AM
32 ACP for WAY too long to think it's going away anytime soon
could say the same for 25 acp, and if ever there was a cartridge that should have...

June 12, 2011, 01:05 PM
I don't think you guys realize but the P90 which fires 5.7 x 28 is used all over the world.


The FiveseveN is also widely used.


5.7 x 28 isn't going anywhere.

June 12, 2011, 01:29 PM
The .327 seems to never have gotten off the ground after what appeared to be a very strong push from the major gun mags/press. I'd like to see more of this caliber, personally, and I would really like to try one out at the range.

June 12, 2011, 01:57 PM
Just read that Winchester sold more .32 acp in 2010 than years past... Guess the Seecamp type guns came on strong

June 12, 2011, 02:01 PM
.45 GAP would be the most likely, just a gimmick with no real advantage over .45acp other than it can be used in 9mm size platforms. .40 already does that and gives better capacity.

.327, considering how revolvers aren't exactly the best sellers and have been virtually abandoned by all police and military units what exactly is the point of a new caliber?

.357 Sig it may hang on as a niche cartridge. As one of the few bottle-necks left in a handgun there will always be a few diehard fans.

10mm definitely here to stay but always as a niche cartridge. Too powerful and too much mystique to ever fade away completely it'll probably be like .38 Super one of those rounds with a loyal and dedicated fan base that keeps it going for a long time.

June 12, 2011, 02:20 PM
Tomcat, hate to tell you, friend, but the .40 is no more likely to go away than the .38/.357 (read: not in our lifetimes) and that's fine by me!.....:confused:

well I meant it as a joke! :)

But with all the case failures I am surprised the .40 survived, but, I believe it is here to stay.....maybe?

June 12, 2011, 02:37 PM
IIRC 40 case failures were with reloads and the occasional Kaboom from Glocks with loose chamber support. I think Glock tightened them up a bit.

It's rare but it can happen with any gun. But most likely a 40 due to higher pressure.

harmon rabb
June 12, 2011, 04:15 PM
But with all the case failures I am surprised the .40 survived, but, I believe it is here to stay.....maybe?

the 40 is the most popular law enforcement caliber in the US, and is also very popular as a civilian caliber in the US. 40 is not going anywhere.

357sig could die at some point in the future, but not 40.

June 12, 2011, 04:31 PM
But with all the case failures I am surprised the .40 survived, but, I believe it is here to stay.....maybe?

Maybe? Thats like saying the 5.56 is going to be next. Have you looked at walmarts shelves, of the 3 walmarts I have visited in the last month, they had piles of 40 s&w and very little of anything else, even 9mm.

Anyways, my vote would have to be the 327 federal magnum.

I think the 50GI would also be a good candidate, meaning its hard to find already.

Also, not a caliber but, im thinking the winchester pdx1 .410 will be short lived. All reports I have read show little penetration with the pellets and a very wide pattern on the bbs. This is aimed at the judge which clearly shoots 000 buck better for any type of SD scenario.

June 12, 2011, 04:33 PM
I wish the 357 Sig would displace the 40 as I see it has every advantage of the 40 and none of the disadvantages. The 40 never should have happened.

The .40 is superior to the SIG in every meaningful way.

The .40 S&W is the industry standard. The vast majority of U.S. LE issue it, all but two feds issue it, the Coast Guard issue it, CAG uses it, It's one of the top cartridges in USPSA/Etc., the Brazilians, Australians, Canadians use it, and on and on and on...

June 12, 2011, 10:06 PM
All you ever have to do is say somethin bout a dang .40 to get em riled up!

:neener: .......................... :cool:

Rather have a real gun..... A 10mm..........the original .40!

Otherwise a .45 ! :D

Ok Im done with that....just pickin anyway! and geez! I never said it was going anywhere!

.38, .357, .40 will be around in the year 3000! .... probably longer than that!

June 13, 2011, 11:00 AM
I would imagine that the 45 GAP will not be long lived. It just doesnt offer much of an advantage over what is already there. If someone is interested in a .45, the difference is minimal between a 45 ACP, if they are looking for a smaller pistol, the .40 and even some loads in 9mm offer nearly identical performance in the same size package, with more rounds in the mag.

The .327 might hang on for a while, because it can be used with the other 32 revolver cartridges. For some it may seem too small, but for others, it might be just the right size as a step up from a .22

June 13, 2011, 02:34 PM
The 10mm has been on its deathbed since Sonny Crockett wimped out and downgraded to a puny little 45.

Is this limited to pistol calibers?

June 13, 2011, 03:17 PM
.45 GAP. No way it sticks around for long, at least in anything but extremely proprietary applications.

10mm is still quite popular with a devoted following out there.

June 13, 2011, 03:52 PM
.45 GAP and 10 mm.

I think the 5.7 is here to stay but will probably never become much more widely used than it currently is.

It's not a pistol round but i hope the 6.5 grendel takes off. I think this would be a perfect replacement for the 5.56 in the military.

And i would like to add that .357 sig aint going no where. .40 is for practice. .357 sig is for carry.

June 13, 2011, 04:01 PM
I can tell you, easily. The 165 gr .40's are going to slow to reliably expand in flesh. Never mind what they reportedly do in Jello or water. Shoot some vermin with it, you will see that I am correct. Mr Hydrashok, Tom Bryzinski, says that if a hp doesn't fully expand in 2" of tissue, it's not going to expand much, if at all, no matter how much tissue it penetrates. So chucks, coons, possums and the like are fully viable for hp testing. 900 fps .45 jhp's dont expand reliably in flesh, either, and the smaller nose cavity of the .40 means that more, not less, velocity is needed for reliable expansion.

June 13, 2011, 04:11 PM
.45 GAP. Too many 1911 and ACP fans for it to catch on. And most definitely 9x25 Dillon, if it ever could be considered "in" anyway. Had it been made using a .357 bullet, it may have caught on a little better than it did. .327 Federal is too new to say yet.

The 10mm was there awhile back, but it has been since rescued by handloaders. When ammo became difficult to get and there were few weapons chambered in it, it weeded out the factory ammo boys. Now it lies in a special land between obscurity and the mainstream. 10mm seems to have made somewhat of a comeback lately as well with the advent of "real" 10mm ammo.

June 13, 2011, 04:28 PM
45 GAP isn't going away anytime soon. Many LE depts use it because Glock gives them a huge discount, and helps get them 45 GAP supplies.

The GAP was Glock's answer to their own inability to make a 45 ACP with a grip slim enough for someone with smaller hands and females to be able to hold comfortably. Funny how the other polymer makers don't really have issues. Instead of just slimming down their designs a bit, Glock went and made a whole new cartridge.

I also believe 200gr is the upper limit for GAP. There also is no +P or higher for GAP, since with the shortened case, pressure is already at the maximum.

45 GAP offers several disadvantages compared to 45 ACP, and really only one advantage - a slimmer Glock in a .45 round. If Glock didn't have the ability to cut incredibly cheap deals for LE departments and sell in volume, the GAP would've died a long time ago.

I believe the FHP here in FL uses 45 GAP.

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